Although most people totally get me here, some people have misinterpreted what I’m saying. I’m NOT saying “just pull who you like”. I’m NOT saying you shouldn’t get meta units. I AM saying: pull the units that are valuable for YOUR account and YOUR goals. Not what is “generally” valuable. Nahida is a MUST PULL FOR YOU if you want to build Nilou or hyperbloom and want to max those teams out. But she is a MUST SKIP for you if you’re focusing on raiden teams, ayaka teams, geo teams, and not doing a dendro team right now. Even aggravate usually wants a defensive dendro character. Of course units that are Generally valuable will be MORE LIKELY to be valuable for your account, but I’m trying to teach the viewer to determine if a unit will be good for themselves based on what they want to do themselves. Also I would like to clarify: it’s not that easy to 36 star with only 4 stars. BUT you have the bones for most teams with only 4 stars, so you don’t need that many 5 stars to make your account sing.
I think a good analogy is drafting in Magic the card game (everyone opens packs and pick a card, then pass and pick next, etc. with the goal of building a deck with what you picked). There is the OVERALL value of a card which you need to factor, but there is a separate decision layer based on how your draft is going that exerts more influence the deeper you get. Do I have enough creatures? Do I have too many high mana costs? Is this a combo? Depending on what you have, high value cards can weaken, low value cards can jump in priority. In the most extreme scenario, you could open the best card in the set, but if you're locked into black/white and that card costs three red mana, it is totally useless to you.
@@jodanjo4295 we are in a content drought he’s gotta make content somehow lol. I understand I just wish he wasn’t kinda reaching at parts during the video. Like if anyone even remotely cares about feeling strong for cheap cost, Nahida is a giga pull.
This is refreshing to see a content creator talk about character pulls like this. Like I know other creators say "if you like the character then just pull them" but I get tired when those same content creators then go on to say just use Bennett/Xiangling/Xinqui in the abyss and describe other characters as unusable compared to those three, especially because they seem to assume that you should have their C6 or they base everything on having a C6. Anyway a great vid and refreshing watch!
New players without high constellations 4-star characters would most likely find some top tier 5-star characters extremely helpful for their account. Pulling for them would greatly improve their leveling experience and could also help getting them 36 stars abyss a lot early.
Sometimes i enjoy Genshin discussions more than the game itself.. I always pull for who i like or maybe if i feel like i need someone.. And i am pretty sure everyone does the same but the lack of content is why most people argue whose better and whose useless..
It’s fun for me to see who’s strong and weak haha that’s why I’ve always enjoyed :) it’s like racing hot wheels on a track to see which car is the fastest….
I think while its a good point that you are making in terms of players being able to 36 star with just 4 star characters, I feel like most people wont, unless they get a lot of cons, some good gacha weapons, artifacts, game knowledge, etc, so having units that dont require as much of it as 4 stars can save you a lot of hassle.
100% agree with you. His hot take is a valid enough point and I'd probably agree with it a couple months ago, but with this current abyss we have? Hell no. 5 stars aren't just minor improvements. I've seen multiple content creators dedicated to 4* only clears of the abyss admit having a hard time. Doable, sure. But they have dedicated this much time in the game, decent investment in artifacts and f2p weapons, and a lot of in game knowledge, and better gaming skills in general. And they're having this much of a hard time. What about the vast majority of casual players? Abyss will always change. We're at the end of a patch year and maybe/likely things will get easier again at the start of a new region. But that is exactly why "value" matters. Flexibilty, not just in different teams, but flexibility as well of going against different kinds of enemies. Power will always be relevant, dps checks are constant. And uniqueness or irreplaceablity is just a character plays their role in the team.
@@casualpotato44 most casual players dont play the abyss. less than 10% of the player base plays abyys and even less than that does floor 12. value really doesn't mean anything to most players other than a single digit %.
it takes lots of time to build up a f2p account, no matter how knowledgeable u are, there's some pitfalls for players who arent so invested in the know-hows though.
@@cresentjno shit Sherlock open world and domains are easy, right now we are talking about the only environment where meta can matter and pull value does exist here.
@@wilburforce8046 the point of the video is all these other content creators slapping "pull value" on every unit that comes out when it really doesn't matter to most players om genshin. so its essentially a dead statement unless your channel is dedicated purely to the meta which majority of content creators that use the phrase arent.
Klee seems like a great option with all this cuteness overload... Especially with her C2 and C4 - decrease enemy DEF 23% and 555% ATK when leaving the field sounds like a lot of damage to me.
I honestly think Klee has gained a good bit of viability with Dendro, my friend just started and really wanted her, so I asked her if she likes Xingqiu and Yao Yao. She has a Burgeon Klee now, with Yao Yao, Barbara and Noelle. I agree tho, idc if physical isn't "good" anymore, I just love Eula 😊
@@little_blackwinged_crow181 Maybe physical isn't an effective way to pull off dps in the current end game. But also like to think this game is still evolving: who knows what new mechanics may have in store for us... If they made sheer cold and, balethunder, then they could also make some areas and opponents where elements cannot be applied; like would Pyro or Dendro work underwater.?
@@Mysdia you're right, I didn't even think about that, like you could not possibly make Pyro under water work. Or even electro could be problematic. Maybe we get a new weekly boss or boss enemy we have to fight under water, or that can make itself immune to elements? I hope they make physical kind of relevant again, I'm also hoping for a bit of a geo buff with Navia. And even if it doesn't, as long as you can complete the content with it and you have fun, I really doesn't matter
My pull conditions for me: Will they help make my Fave unit stronger? Will they help my Fave unit add a new fun way to play? Is their Kit practical enough to apply to multiple characters that I like without being obnoxiously clunky? Do I tolerate their character enough for me to pull for them?
@@giovanniferreira4489lmao fair enough. I enjoy his character but not his personality if that makes sense. He’s cool, but I couldn’t be able to sit in the same room as him before gouging his eyes out and then my own. But this is also why I haven’t pulled for Raiden or Hu Tao yet.
Really great video. Work out what teams you want to build to maximise your personal enjoyment of the game, work out your priorities within those teams (i.e. which characters are replaceable and which aren't) and wish accordingly. Should be so simple but you are absolutely right; so few other people actually give this advice. I am pleased to say I've been subconsiously doing this since I started playing anyway!
One side-effect I noticed with this is that I've looked at certain units without as much prejudice as many others would. Collei and Traveler are okay investments for me because I like doing double Dendro for my Dendro teams; and pairing them with a defense-oriented Dendro like Baizhu or Yaoyao are more than plenty to supply any Dendro-based comps like Hyperbloom, Burgeon, or Aggravate (I use only a defensive Dendro when running Spread teams). Looking at Faruzan and experimenting on her with 4pc Noblesse Oblige had me surprised because she matched the buffs of my 4pc Noblesse + Sapwood + Pyro Resonance Bennett all on her own + Noblesse, which made my Xiao not too dependent on Bennett + actually allows me to run a flex spot dedicated to battery-ing the team (which Sucrose can do well). I get that there are supports that seem indispensable, but if people are less like this gameplay mechanics/tips would be way more creative and vibrant as opposed to seeing Kazuha over and over again or double Hydro (that's pretty much just Yelan + Xingqiu) or Nahida with a Dendro team or something.
I think redundency isn't a bad thing; if you need an anemo in both halfs of the abyss, Kazuha opens that up for you. Being able to have xingqiu in both halves can be great as well (in the form of Yelan). I will also say that sometimes you can grt incredibly unlucky trying to get a 4 star, so a 5 star version can be at least guaranteed. My friend and I are both AR 55+ and he *still* doesn't have a Xingqiu.
I could only wish Xingqiu was powerful enough to be like having a second Yelan, though... I think Xingqiu needs to be off-field with a Pyro main. But Yelan's one I can actually spam autoattack after her burst and get many high-damage hits per second, so Yelan perfect with only Yelan on the field, and Xiangling in the background.
For Xingqiu, that's a choice your friend made, since he's available in the shop. Does apply to other four stars, though, and the odds of getting any given four star will only get worse as time passes, with more and more available.
@@Mysdia You underestimate how powerful XQ is. He has what Yelan doesn't. Mitigation and Stagger resistance. In some comps or situation, XQ is better than Yelan. Especially now with enemies that hits and stagger like a truck (consecrated beast). If you stack hydro % on XQ, you are looking at 40%+ damage mitigation. This is why, as someone who 36* Abbys in this concentrated beast era, it is my opinion shields are newb trap. Mitigation contribute more in terms of damage avoidance because it doesn't have a maximum limit like a shield absorption and can be near or 100% uptime no matter what. E.g. XQ, Beido and to some extent Dehya.
@@Polypoly06Zhongli in my Yelan teams, and stagger never an issue -- it just delays combat to keep applying his press+hold. Better than XQ who can't heal enough to replace lost HP. Even with Noelle as shielder I could avoid most of the consecrated beast attacks, but for that Floor 12 Abyss Hydro not effective. I used Nahida+Ganyu burst+Raiden aggravate First Half: Neither Yelan nor XQ for that because of Chamber 1's super-annoying Primal constructs.. which turn invisible and are spread out just enough to thwart the AoE attacks.
I think value depends on the situation, for example when venti was first released he was considered one of, if not the best characters in the game because of the situation that was presented since content lacked large enemies in general but then more large enemies came out and changed that dynamic and this is the same dynamic that happened with Diluc since there was a lack of good DPS characters back then, same with Ganyu since when she came out there was never a dps as good as her out yet but then xiao, hu tao and ayaka came out and changed that, people even thought kazuha was gonna be #1 in abyss forever but then nahida came out and now she's #1 and we might see more changes coming up as well
The main meta changes every time a number changes which is likely gonna start happing with the 4.x patches coming. It looks like we are gonna get a lot more Hu Tao style(in a way) characters out of Fontaine. Partial hp scalers that get stronger the more hp they sacrifice. Which also will make healers of higher value. Kokomi will hit peak value with Fontaine. Because the biggest difference with Hu Tao who wants to maintain a lower hp for high strength these characters seem to sacrifice hp for higher strength like Kuki for healing but can be healed and still maintain that strength.
@@jamrodgers121 I hope not. I hate Hu Tao for many reasons and hp loss mechanic is one of them, but I liked almost all Fontane characters showed in the trailer.
@snadianna not quite as bad since yes they lose hp to gain strength but unlike Hu Tao doesn't need to remain at low hp to retain the strength. Pretty sure at least.
The issue I've always had with pull value discussions is that it exacerbates the one issue I've always had with Genshin's gameplay-based playerbase: the MOBA player mentality (i.e. so much care for game mechanics and meta that preference is barely considered; often those taking the helm expecting the people who listen to them to play like professional players instead of actually playing for fun). Anyone can clear, and even if it's possible to clear with a broken support or 2, isn't a 5-star weapon tailored to a specific 4-star for example about the same price and, while not totally within the highest peak, still reasonable? Playing meta in Genshin is all about the capability to hoard resources, but if you pull for value alone without considering if you like or don't like the character it'll take quite a lot of time for that character to make up for the primos you invested. Just for reference, 22.5 wishes comprise of 24 Floor 12's; which is a year's worth of floor 12's. It'll take anywhere between 1 clear to 4.5 years to 7 years just for the character to break even for your primo stash; and that amount will double if you've already been reaching 30 to 35 stars. Some people have also brought into the light the aspect of "liking a DPS but not liking the support" when there are ways to go around it. Burgeon (and Hyperbloom) can be alleviated without a Nahida by running a defensive Dendro flex + Collei/Traveler + your trigger (Thoma for Burgeon; Shinobu/EM Raiden/EM Dori for Hyperbloom) + a Hydro. Running 4pc Noblesse on Faruzan pre-C6 actually helps her buffing capability as opposed to simply stuffing her with ER from rainbow sets (Xiao is usually a little better when it comes to battery-ing her due to his frontloaded particles + there's always the option to run Sucrose for extra particles since Xiao isn't picky with his Resonances). Point being is that there's so many ways that Genshin's combat is alleviated with creativity. It's just that outside of Sevy and more recently Jello, so many people don't like to venture away from their comfort zones when this is a game that won't punish you too heavily for not bringing the right characters (unless it's 3.7 Abyss); often complaining about resources when they have likely only spent resin to min-max powerful units and hoard Mora/spend it on levelling artifacts. I don't disagree if this is the methodology of some, but to claim it as the best way based on objectivity is basically saying people aren't allowed to have fun because of the need to go for specific units. P.S. I'm Nahida-less, Kazuha-less, and Yelan-less (among others) and I've ran many teams that have them as BiS and still worked out so fine and still 36-starred Abyss since 3.0 (started in 2.4)...and my best unit isn't even on the top of meta units and is one of the most hated 5-star Hydros by virtue of being an on-fielder + "no specialization" (Ayato).
Good reply :) I have all three but Kazuha and Yelan don't see that much play unless abyss really forces me, like the application check in the 2nd half this abyss. Why? Because they're not in the teams of my favorites, that's all
There was new 2 are being high threatening to punishing weak players that can't achieved 36★ in Spiral Abyss when was in 3.7. They gave me the discouragement which is really matters to me. I can't train when I'm being blamed by everyone.
My pull strat ended up something that was pretty close: prioritize getting the known broken 5* supports, then pull for faves and the ones that interests me personally whenever I can. I got the sense early on that virtually all of the 5* DPSes are strong enough to be viable at C0 regardless of their relative power level, to the point that I could just stick with who I like more. But I do need the broken supports for my faves in most cases. Thankfully my all-time fave is frickin Kazuha so I don't even have to overthink it haha
pull value is a made up concept! and anything to do with "power" is extremely subjective and almost entirely based on the persons existing roster, how you play the game (casual 36 star, low budget speedrun, high budget speedrun), and how they percieve things. basically doesn't really mean anything honestly personally, I usually just recommend ppl pull their favourites and who they like. learn and practice how to play them, what teams they can work in and potentially pull supports that can help with that.
This is fantastic, honestly. I've been having great luck using limited numbers of 5 stars, and using the 5-stars that I enjoy playing and enjoy the character of. Some people told me I was crazy to skip Nahida to get Yae Miko, but between DMC and Kirara I haven't felt short on Dendro application for aggravate teams, and while Nahida can basically improve ANY team by at least a bit, she's not IRREPLACEABLE and she's not worth my pulls if I'm not going to enjoy playing her and having her.
"who are your favourite 5 star units" there lies the problem. For me personally I have some characters I really enjoy the design of, e.g. dehya, but I would never use them, because I enjoy playing the best possible teams and this would never use her. Thus I have no real incentive to pull for her. I have the most fun with determining who could be the most "valuable" characters to play and improve certain teams and then go for those units (international and double hydro hyperbloom ATM xD) Now that I think about it, maybe I just like xiangling and kuki and want to build teams around them xD
Your 'favs' would be strong units rather/over than design. For people that doesnt care as much for power, they have no incentive to pull based on power, hence the value of power wouldnt matter.
@@shizhou5809 yeah that makes sense. Maybe at some point there's gonna be a character with gameplay and design so great that I can't help but fall for the character and then at that point I'll also feel that way
You're playing by yourself vs ai npc why the reason to use the best esp in open world ???? This ain't no esport or some giga hard difficulty hc ++ rpg kek
@@GirishMiGaI don't agree with your articulation specifically, but I 100% agree with what you're trying to say. Spending pulls for a weapon on a character you like beats out pulling 1 or 2 busted supports that you don't even like
I think I made a mistake by pulling Kazuha. I don't regret it, it's just that my main two teams are a Nilou bloom and a Tighnari spread so he is just sitting there with my unleveled characters. Pretty sure he will become useful for other future teams
Same. He's not on my current two teams. But you change that Tighnari team around just a bit to an aggravate team and now Kazuha is good for aggravate. I got him for the same reason. I'm not using him right now but he is useful to the overall account.
I play 4 teams and 3 of them use anemo buffers / drivers, you'll for sure play something that uses Kazuha to it's best potential (even with the new upcoming units, Kazuha is gaining a lot more "value')
This video is a breath of fresh air from the "You need these 5 characters" videos I see everywhere. Those videos make it sound like you're playing "wrong" if you don't have e.g., Nahida, Yelan, Nilou, Raiden Shogun, and Kazuha, and they're not helpful in the "just have fun" department. Jello's videos are a lot more thoughtful.
These are my thoughts exactly! In terms of 5-star value as people talk about it, all you need is ONE of your favorite 5☆ hydro. Otherwise, go for characters you like and *will use*!
Yeah, don't take meta tier list at face value, try to make tier list based on our personal account and preference, especially at early or mid game with much limited roster. I've seen many newer players regretted having pulled certain characters based on meta tier list, not cuz the characters are weak but cuz they can't commit to build any good team around them hence they never see their true potential.
Honestly this is why I fell off of Nilou hard. Even at C0R1 it took Baizhu and Ayato + Traveler to make her bearable (a C4 Thoma matches her, and the performance of my C0 Burgeon Thoma comes really close, and in that comp Yaoyao and Collei are useable as subs if I need Baizhu elsewhere but if I use f2p options/4-stars for Nilou she falls really flat). I know she isn't meta, but her shills are equally obnoxious
@@ArnoldFrost yep, Nilou is a perfect example since her team is so restricted and without Nahida her team feels so clunky, also the fact that her team literally needs a healer to function makes it even worse to pull for her unprepared.
@@alsonaarif8086 are you really just asking why a free 4* that everybody have that has a strong team full of 4* (National) and got a free 4* spear as one of her best weapon (The Catch) being used by everyone?
Great advice! It's a good question to ask yourself : why am I playing this game? If it's just to have the most meta teams while they're the most meta teams, go for it. If it's to have fun exploring, have a blast! If you want a bunch of pretty characters, enjoy! From what I have seen, pull value goes way up if you just like the character, especially for f2p players and that makes good sense. All the characters are powerful and fun, don't let anyone tell you they're not. Pull with your heart and then pull to support. Or be a whale, it's your money and time!
My philosophy has always been to wish for characters that I like based on design/story! I don’t really spend any time in the abyss. Even though certain characters may have clunkier or inconsistent play styles, I find that I’m more willing to work through those factors simply because I enjoy the character. Biggest example for me is Eula: I’ve been waiting all year for her rerun and I just got her, her BiS weapon and C2! Sure, physical is in a tough spot at the moment, but I could go on forever about her design and I love her play style (I could watch her auto attack animations forever lol) plus it helps that I unintentionally already had a team built around her. Now that I have Eula I’m having a blast playing as her! We all have different goals with Genshin but Eula just happens to fulfill my own personal goal!
Excellent explanation, I think what you say may be somewhat obvious to many players, but for many others it is not, so it is worth a lot saying it clearly. In defence of pull value, I'd like to point out that we all make mistakes, including misjudgements of our own desires, so pull value helps with that a bit, "chances are you will not end up regretting pulling for those units" kind of message.
For me, I just choose my favorite character and from there, the valuable characters are those that bring out the best in that character. My favorite character is Yae so for me, the valuable characters are Raiden, Baizhu, Kazuha, Kokomi and Nahida.
Thanks for the video! I've seen many tier videos that all say different things about different characters, but the principle of pulling based in my own personal goals and not on "this team/character is meta!" really makes my goal sheet for who I want to pull much thinner. I can now be more confidant that as much as Zhongli's shield is amazing (especially to someone who plays on a laggy phone like me), neither my Ayaka freeze team nor my Tighnari spread team will be better with him, making Zhongli a very low priority character. Now just waiting for Kokomi banner to start and for Xinqiu to apear in the shop (I want to make a Raiden national team in the future).
I think the best definition about value is flexiblity to build. The characters should easy to build, easy to play alongside many characters, have simple KIT (who doesn't requires many X, Y, and Z such as freeze condition)
You've perfectly described what I've always had in mind in playing this game. You really don't have to build your account around just having "account power". Rather, the meta is there to help you build your account based on which character you'd like to play with.
Building around characters you like helps avoid Genshin burnout too. And you're absolutely right- there aren't much in the way of must pull characters in Genshin. The closest I'd personally come to calling a must pull is basically any hydro unit if you only have Barbara
Yep, exactly. We are very different in the way we enjoy the game. So there can be no such thing as universal value. I personally enjoy building different teams for specific bosses or specific battles, so that the boss or enemies are dispatched efficiently. Thus, what I value for my account, is how the new character widen my range of workable teams. A simple example is Kokomi. When everybody was going apeshit about her crit, I simply wanted a hydro unit for off-field hydro application - better than Mona, and not as restricted as Xingqui (this "only works with normal attacks" restriction means a lot for me, since I mostly use charged attacks and abilities instead of normal hits). I got her, and her utility is over the roof for me. She is literally the second character by how frequent I pick her for my teams (the first place is GanYuu). She surpassed even Sucrose, who I value very much too.
I really wish the game allowed you to test every character at any time, not just when they're on the banner. We get the test domain during the banner, but imagine if you could do that from the character archive menu, even when that character isn't available! Why? Long term planning. Also, I'm the type that doesn't care about the visual design or personality of the characters much at all. I watched every demo trailer, but was no closer to having my personal pull list because the most important thing _by far_ for me is how they feel to play. Do I have fun with their gameplay? *I would love to be able to experiment in a closed sandbox with characters and teams from the full roster!* Bonus points if you could toggle each constellation to get a feel for the impact that decision would have.
sometimes i wonder if its worth the mental trouble to 36 star abyss for casual players. the difference between 33 star and 36 star is 50 primogems. 33 star is significantly easier that literally any team with half decent build can completely. 33 star requires 2 star per chamber and gives you full 2 min more per chamber. pull for your favourite character and be happy with 33 star. if you like the challenge then its a different story.
Honestly, I found that for myself that it isn't after I've seen a friend who played from the start and sank money in the game struggle for the 36 stars recently. Why give in to the predatory fomo for less than 2/3 of a pull a month?
I agree with the overall message of pull for who you like to play and who synergizes well with those units. However, I do have to emphasize that pull value as a concept does exist and matter, but only in the come-up to 36 star. Once you reach the promised land, pull value starts to lose meaning. So to your point that any F2P 4-stars can full clear so no 5-star is necessary, yes that is true in the long run with enough significant investment and time. But where pull value comes in is ability to speed the process so your road to 36-star becomes easier/faster. Is that shortcut valuable to you? Then absolutely you should be using pull value.
No offense because i usually think your videos are pretty spot on, but at the point that Nahida, Kazuha, and Yelan are considered not that valuable, and Xiao and Alhaitham are considered basically wasted pulls from a value perspective, I honestly believe there is a major flaw in your philosophy about what makes a character valuable. Uniqueness in particular seems really shaky, but i think all of the factors you mentioned can basically be shoved aside by the phrase "it depends." Genshin's philosophy seems to often be making 5 star characters who fill the same function as their 4 star equivalent, but usually better. There are so many factors that make Kazuha a valuable pull, from his mechanics like his pull, personal damage, and ease of double swirling, to his buff being more universal. The same could be said for a lot of characters. Xiao with C6 Faruzan has literally 0 flexibility but he makes up for it by being nearly uncounterable in one of the strongest abyss teams in the game. Yelan can fill the same role as Xingqiu but she also unlocks double hydro, which is one of the strongest and most flexible cores we have. Most egregiously, Nahida and DMC do the same thing technically, but anyone who would say that DMC is anywhere near Nahida is fatally overdosing on copium. Point being that a lot of units value is far more circumstantial than a formula can really capture. On paper, what you said is right, but the difference of experience between an account with Nahida/Kazuha and an account that has to use sucrose or dmc instead is more than enough to justify pulling those 5 stars for their value. Just my opinion though.
I definitely agree, nahida has CRAZY power and doesn’t feel the same. But my point with the video was, if you want to build a mono geo team…don’t go for nahida even though people might say she has good “value”! That’s all
I feel bad for people who just want to have fun. I have been harassed for saying that I'm saving for certain characters because "they s*ck" or "but you have X why would you want Y. X is best; no one wants Y". I have had people get mad because my "team comp is trash and doesn't work". I DON'T care about team comp; I'm not playing to get the highest crit or clear floor 12. I'm playing for the fun of playing with the characters I love. Sure I can't clear floor 12, or beat Raiden, but I still love the game and have fun. If I do get stuck I can ask for help to get to the next step. I pull for the characters I like, not for power or reactions. I wish people won't always try to force their way of doing things on others. I ask for advice to make characters better for my play style, but I'm not bad at the game just because I play the team I do.
@@JelloImpact Thank you for that. Even though my kids make light fun of my teams/play style they also don't make me not want too play. When they help me out; even though I have other characters that they like better they always use my Zhongli and Ayato. Most of the time they use my Kaeya and Alhaitham. The only thing they have both complained about is that I have no healers or bow users build (except Gorou).
I guess my personal tierlist for pulling highly values playstyle. Like no matter how much I love a character (design/personality/lore) is they have a tedious playstyle like Ganyu, clunky like Klee, having to jump cancel like Hutao, I just have to skip. And sometimes even tho I don't really like certain characters (Ayaka's coconut head), I end up getting them bc ahh damn cool swordstyle.
I loved your video, I wish I could show it to all content creators and players in Brazil. Here everything revolves around the abyss and the goal. Where you have an "obligation" to get yelan, zhongli, kazuha, raiden and nahida, otherwise your account will never be worth anything. I really want Kokomi, but I'm so tempted to get Klee and people here give you dirty looks if you get something "worthless".
Mhee, I just want to collect them all. Eventually. I'm pacing myself and going for the characters I really want first. Only building those I don't feel too lazy to build at the moment. Take Eula. I got just enough primos to get her, but not her weapon. Then I got the skyward claymore. Then pretty decent rolls on her artifacts. She's actively telling me to raise her 😅. Guess I finally have an incentive to go fight that cryo cube.
This is a good way to look at it. I pulled Jean and Diluc 2 days apart from each other in August 2021, but my first limited 5 star was Raiden the following month (unless you count Aloy) and she instantly became my favorite, but I had extremely poor team management, just puting Diluc, Jean, and Raiden together in a team and using that to clear Archon content until reaching Sumeru. I only used Starglitter on wishes, and never participated in Lantern Rite, so I was just crippling myself with my team comps. Then Neuvillette came out, a new favorite of mine, and I decided I was going to take Genshin more seriously as s game. Since then, I've joined a Genshin Discord and set off to build two new teams, a Neuvillette team with Fischl, Venti, and Kirara, and a Raiden team with Bennett, Sara, and Chevreuse. The current Raiden banner has been mostly lucky in giving me 3 Raidens, 7 Bennetts, 6 Saras, and... 1 Chevreuse. I picked up Fischl and Xiangling Constellations with Starglitter as well. I'm vertically investing in these teams before building more, and they should help 36 the Abyss consistently enough for the time being.
This is an absolutely amazing way to look at it and I am so relieved that I am doing this already myself. Defiantly the best way to play for me (personally) or I would have burnt out or got frustrated with my pulls
I think the best tip here is just to pull for your favorite. and build around him/her. I remember this mistake I've done. People saying that Ayaka is way better than Ganyu. But by the time I got her, I find her playstyle soooooooooo boring. I would still prefer playing with Ganyu as it involves some skill in playing (which is aiming). Also people are quite rush on making their conclusions/impressions on characters. On Yoimiya's release, they say she's awful because of her elem burst and ICD. But now people are using her because there are enemies that Hu Tao can't reach. Nilou on her release doesn't have the right characters to support her. People say she suck because of few chars can be used. They didn't even consider that characters will be released in the future to support her. Now, there are multiple variations on her team. If you don't have Kokomi, then use Yaoyao. Barbara+ Kirara is a strong option too. People are pissing on Yae Miko and Kuki Shinobu. But aggravate/hyper bloom is one of the best teams to use. People also pissed on Zhongli's initial release because he doesn't deal good damage. They didn't even realize that his usage is for shielding. Now he is a meme that if you pull for him you restrict yourself from learning how to dodge (as if there are incentives in dodging) There's no real competitive content anyway, so META isn't important. Abyss nowadays is dumb even if you have the "META" characters, it's not worth the grind and is more of a bragging right. (but at what cost?). If you play actively on game events and complete the hangout events, The 50~100 Primos you miss from 9 starring the abyss floor 12 are a small value that can be ignored.
Bit late to this, but I think Collei needs to be on list for the dendro 4stars. Her dendro application is phenomenal and is leaps and bounds ahead of Yao Yao. I tried YY on my primary during team and she always feels very lackluster as an off field dps. Her healing burst hard carries YY’s usefulness in most scenarios except large aoe. Collei is very underestimated imo an is one of my best dendro characters on my account
There is a thing about building around your favorite character that must be mentioned. I came as "whoa abyss is hard i better choose 2 dps i like and build around them". What i DID NOT KNOW is that there is this huge difference between price of their best teams. Example: I love cryo so i got Ayaka. What does Ayaka want? Obnoxious amount of hydro application to freeze comfortably (Kokomi). Kazuha to maintain enemy units so Ayaka's burst will not miss. And preferably Shenhe for damage boost. Do i have them all? Hell no. I only have Kazuha from recently. And waiting for Kokomi. I also don't like the 4* substitutes. And don't forget mistsplitter!!! Second example: I love Hu Tao so i got her. What she needs to make enemy go rest in peace? Xingqou. Shield if dangerous gameplay (Layla is great). And ok - Staff of Homa. + C1 if skill issue. Conclusion: some favs are easyer to make work cheap. And they do even better than those with high investment. So i kinda feel ripped off. Why is my favourite Hu Tao but she has LESS cons, LESS 5* supports and LESS stuggle with gameplay? Because she does not need it to be good. My advice: pull who you like but always keep in mind how pricey they teams are. Or you might end up like me building their best teams for half a year.
Something that most tier lists don’t talk about: when targeting specific 5 stars, it means waiting up to a year or even more for those rare opportunities. Players that are early in their account building may not realise the “options” discussed here are long-long game.
Kinda at the point where its just one more specific five star, and then I can just stop wishing for a while. Knowing things will soon fall into place is nice feeling, and going forward, pulling for some units you like regardless of value would be fine...
Wow, thanks! Where have you been 1,5 year ago when i just started my account? This would be so helpfull for me 😁 Your point about goal setting is really valid! I actually did the same thing recently: i used to main geo (Ningguang, Zhongli, Itto) so i had a pretty nice geo team and almost every geo character on my acc. But recently i decided to try something new, so my goal was to diversify my gameplay as much as possible. I had a ton of 4 stars so i analysed my sarting point and started planning. I built my Ayaka, pulled for Nahida, Kazuha and now for Kokomi and i will be pulling for Raiden. Basically, i pulled for the best supports and elemental aplicators. A also lose my 50/50 and got Tignari which was a nice finishing touch :) I realised my goal, made my own tear list and now i am trully enjoying all 3-4 different combat styles. So i can personally prove that your point is super valid 😁 Thanks for your video!
I already at the point of beating abyss easily so i dont need to use meta character that i dont like (im looking at you xiangling 😗) and i can pull any character anything i want. Personaly i like new character who bring unique mechanic, kit, and gameplay (or cool design) rather than straight up broken with similar mechanic or something like that.
Oh? So people are finally talking about how dumb that concept is? Took a while but better now than never, wonder when other CC will also start to notice this. Character value are account specific. Some may not have Bennett and this case character that don't use Bennett become more valuable to one, same for Xingqiu, same Fischl etc... Because every account is different it's not possible to give an accurate picture of value. The way most CC (Tenten) and some TC (Zajef) do is that they assume you have all the characters, all the 4* characters. So now you can go from there. Issue is that going by that just like you said no 5* becomes valuable at all as the 4* roster can clear the hardest content in the game. Rev + Tazer was enough and then Dendro came, giving access to National + Aggravate/Spread/Bloom as a composition. So why bother going for the 5* other than just likng it it and gameplay reason? Tenten was the one who introduced this thing around the early days of Genshin back in 1.X, dunno if earlier but I do remember Ganyu being 4/5 for him. Pull value is a flawed concept that only worked back when resource and characters were scarce but now Primogens can be obtained more, there are more crows, more artifact and strongbox, more characters and reactions. There's over 70 characters (Lyney and co included), of course among them you will easily find one that fufil your need, ones who are 4* even. That's why when discussing about unit, I talk about power level instead. Who does more damage, DPS, clear faster. Because everything else is subjective, ease of use included.
Great video; I know in my -very- early days I was terrified to miss out on a limited banner if the character was meta or necessary or whatever. I picked up Yelan pretty early in my time playing, and luckily ended up REALLY loving her vibe and playstyle, but I purposefully skipped Hu Tao to do so. Felt really bad at first as everyone was saying how good Hu Tao was, but now I've settled into the spot where I have 2-3 solid teams, each of which is supported by some great 4-stars. I never feel bad skipping "REALLY GOOD" characters anymore, in favor of ones that might buff my teams I already have, or ones I just really like.
yes .. absolutely crucial to determine what gives you most pleasure in the game before figuring the "value" of characters. It's taken me a while to find my personal game: i'm not an abyss player. I like open world challenges .. (where the environment is part of the challenge). I like to randomly choose from *any* of the characters i have because i like novelty. As a result i ascend all my characters at L50 and have my world level at 6 (artifact benefits means .. overworld ranges from instant destruction to drawn out ducking and weaving mayhem. I've found .. for my particular game, rather than choosing characters, i think of element reactions and other effects and choose characters to suit. I'm drifting into a feeling that maybe i'd have a more fun game if i only pulled from the standard banner. (But it's so easy to be drawn into the hype and drama of the banner characters.)
The thing about Value is, character that will give you quality of life. By that what I mean is, It'll make your gameplay smoother and easier. Especially for people like me who have massive skill issue. I use Nahida with Alhaitham all the time but this abyss is just not for my account considering I only started 4 months ago. I only got to 12-2 with my current rosters as I don't have any good DPS other than Keqing and Alhaitham. I have built my characters to a certain extent but still not enough. Most of the META characters like, Xiangling, Bennett, Xingqiu, Kuki and Fischl are built pretty ok but still not enough with my current skill. A character with high value can make my life extremely easier even with this much skill issue. Having Hu Tao here would surely help me a whole lot because it opens up my second roster and that means I don't need to split Alhaitham and Nahida in to 2 teams, making chamber 1 a whole lot easier and dealing with the Constipated beasts a little easier. And I am confident if I have Alhaitham and Nahida in a single team I can clear 12-3 too. And Kazuha, without Kazuha I 100% can't clear 12-1 chamber 2 or atleast get 2 stars like I did. I guess in the end of the day, people's own values on every character will differ from each other as we have different experiences. And instead of value, I'd rather call it "Quality of Life" as "Value" can be different on different people's perspectives. I have not finished watching the video as I was writing this I'm only like at 5min 30 sec mark so I might be jumping the gun here 💀
On the 4 stars you mentioned, everyone will get them at one point, but for c6 4 stars, they won't have Sucrose and Kuki's as they aren't available on Stargillter shop or the yearly Lantern Rite.
National has a lot of problems nowadays for new players. Needing cons to feel effective, insane ER requirements without XQ's R5 Sac Sword and Bennie's R5 Fav Sword, and generally needing insane artifacts to hit a good combo of ER/Crit/Atk/EM means the team is something to aim for as an endgame comp, despite being comprised of 4-stars. I personally found the game A LOT more fun to play when I built a team around my first 5-star Yelan with an on-hit Taser setup rather than trying to round out National. SO yeah, key takeaway is pull for favorites and build around those favorites, think about meta a little bit later maybe as a long-term goal.
Nothing has "pull value" in a game where 4 stars will everything. Anyways, i just pull who i like and build teams around them. Like I can make about 5 different teams that have yae and albedo on them and have already 36 abyss with these different teams.
I 100% agree with ur way of thinking and in fact I think is so much better than how the rest of people just talk about it saying 'Must pulls' and stuff, me personally am playing Itto since ar23 all way back in Mondstat and is a character I love and even though couldn't upgrade him I played w him until finally being in Inazuma and when I saw how strong he could get I decided to get the best team for him which isn't gonna be mono geo but hypercarry team instead cuz I don't like Albedo and well point is I'm saving up since months ago just to get him the perfect team in my eyes like u said at end of video
Thanks for doing this video, Jello impact. I think a lot of tier lists for Genshin aren't all that helpful. Putting e.g. a support like Gorou, Kujou Sara, and Faruzan in S Tier is quite misleading. Those are niche supports. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying it's misleading to call them "S Tier" because it's not going to help you decide to get them, and you shouldn't get them unless you're building the teams that are better with them. It's way better to look a character is "what do you need them for?" Do you need a healer? Do you need a DPS? Do you want a support? Do you want someone who fits on lots of teams? Do you need someone to fit multiple roles? I know it's a lot, but it's important to not get lost in "this unit is so good" and look at "WHY is this unit so good FOR ME?" That's the thing I can tell anyone new. Even if you get a bunch of "S Tier" units, and I have many, you'd be surprised how many just sit on the bench except for specific teams. I love Ayaka, but I don't always like a freeze teams. Yoimiya and Xiao are great hypercarries, but I don't always want to run or build a hypercarry team. My point is that it's okay to use mostly 4* units in this game and save your money on wishing. Sometimes you really want a character but it takes too much investment to make them work and they're not worth the effort.
When i started 5 stars looked like god like i cant replicate that feeling when i got xiao it felt like i am a god and then little by little genshin just fell out man the 1st month i played 5 stars looked soo good (didn't have any in 2 months)
I definitely agree in the waifu/husbando over meta mindset it makes a game more fun. Hu tao is the character I want to obtain the most, her personality is so much fun and I already have most of the characters that pair well with her
I actually really needed this video. I have bennett, xiangling and kazuha and felt like I HAD to get Childe or Neuvillette or Ayato to make a good team and run it. And ill probably still try to go for Neuvillette if hes an on fielder but it made me decide to go back to my original wants. I want Wanderer man. I played him in trials and loved him. I love his character and story. Im just going to go for him and hope to finish my 4 cons for faruzan and play what i want to more. I'll grab an on field for the other team later. Prioritize fun lol
@benia3095 it means I won't be using kazuha on my two main teams but having him on the account gives me a lot of options for a 3rd team if need be so I'm still happy I pulled him
I've been playing since release and as for actual pull value I have to agree that focusing on getting the "core" 4 stars is just the easiest way to progress and to build future teams since they're very flexible building blocks. That said, if I were to recommend 5 star characters to a new player based on what gives you a lot of power quickly (= pull value?), I'd recommend them to grab their favorite of the more generalistic hydro characters, favorite anemo grouper and Nahida. This also heavily depends on the time a new player starts playing. Worst case they cant even pull for a character no matter how "valuable" they are because theres just no banner in sight. Personally I dont find using those 4 stars all that fun and I'm glad I can throw my favorites at the content and clear comfortably now...
lol I'll always find it funny how people keep telling me to pull for certain DPS and healers but I just didn't because I either don't know them yet (therefore can't decide if I am going to like them as characters), or I just don't like them, I ended up not pulling for a long time and waited until it's time to pull the characters I like (and can work well in my current team).
This video is one of the most intelligent contributions to the Genshin space. Because of that it will be misunderstood and slandered by the moronic majority and the followers of self-declared Gods who claim their divine status through the incantation of the mantra "meta"
You have very valid points. But there are two things. One is, you will get bored of your current favorite team eventually. And if you start building your next team when you already are bored with the current one, it's too late. It's a good idea to collect characters where you see potential for you enjoying playing them later even if you don't plan to use them right now. And the second is, no team is immune to being rendered inefficient in certain situations. Monsters that have high resistances to one or even two main elements your team uses to deal damage may mean significant obstacle. That's why you should always work on your personal team building flexibility, getting characters that let you build teams that deal damage in different elements and ways. Spiral Abyss gives us various kinds of challenge. Sometimes you have to bring a team capable of high sustained damage. Sometimes you have to bring a team capable of high damage bursts because the monster is hiding or immune most of the time. Sometimes you have to bring a team that can break multiple different elemental shields. And all of that in different elements. If you don't have sufficient team building options, you may find yourself struggling a lot.
