Will a dedicated streamer outperform an Apple TV?

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Apple TVs are some of the most advanced dedicated streaming devices on the market, but how do they compare to a dedicated audio streaming platform of even a computer? Have a question you want to ask Paul? www.psaudio.com...
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Опубликовано:

7 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 104

@Will-zd9qc 5 лет назад

Every Apple TV (other than 1st generation) resamples the audio to 48khz before output. I always felt that music streamed through my Apple TV sounded “off”, especially when compared to my 1st gen, so I did a little research and found out that’s why. Checked the signal info on my receiver and it confirmed it. I only really use it for video streaming now.

@jackdanyal4329 Год назад

you will hear the difference between 48khz and 96? :)

@mat.b. Год назад

@@jackdanyal4329 it doesn't play 96k. The point is it processes the audio which nerfs its fidelity.

@jackdanyal4329 Год назад

@@mat.b. I know it doesn't. but also why bother if you will not hear any differences? I made so many blind tests even with my friends to check will they hear the diff between apple tv apple music and the good dac connected to the iphone by OTG cable.

@SuperMrGiraffe 5 лет назад

Why not use your own “Bridge II” built into the DirectStream DAC to stream?... does the apple mini outperform it?

@ecamormex 4 года назад

The newest Apple TV is only HDMI and the sound is AMAZING!

@alvarovelezuribe 2 года назад

How do you get High end quality using the apple tv and then the TV to the integrated amplifier?

@jackdanyal4329 Год назад

@@alvarovelezuribe apple tv connect to tv with HDMI and connect tv to dac/receiver with coax or optical. in the sound setting of the TV (not apple tv) put pass through instead of PCM

@cunn1n9 4 года назад

Can someone explain this too me as I am confused. Isn't the bitstream being sent over HDMI the exact same as the bitstream sent over Optical? Why would there be any difference at all between the two. Surely the channel it is being sent over (optical vs HDMI) should be identical and so there should be no difference at all. Please tell me if I'm wrong and if so why.

@gatorcellman 3 года назад

This vid is a bit old but I have a comment that may be useful. For a while I've used a 3rd gen Apple TV to connect to a DAC using Toslink. Thanks to the quality of my amp, DAC, and speakers, it sounded OK. It improved a little using Audivrana on my Mac and then AirPlay to the ATV. However, I just tested the new Bluesound Node (2021 model) using the digital output and the difference was significant. More soundstage, detail, better mid bass, etc. Also had the ability to play hires FLAC. I didn't try the analog output directly to my amp. I then tried the Auralic Aries G1 after the Node and while the difference was indeed audible (G1 had a warmer sound and even better detail and soundstage), it was not the jump from the ATV to Node. Note that the G1 is about $1500 more than the Node. I plan to use replace the ATV with the Node and then use the extra $ I would have spent on the G1, to invest in a better DAC in the future. I hope this helps others who may have the same question. PS I also have a 2021 Apple TV 4K that is great but my DAC doesn't have HDMI input so didn't try it.

@robbiefest 2 года назад

I've just done similar but had the opposite experience. My Apple TV 3 is sounding glorious. I've put my own heavy duty copper power cable on it, and am using a glass fibre optical into a Bryston BDA1 dac. It sounds warm, large , open, airy, organic and very musical. I've had a blue sound N130 for a week and have tried numerous combinations of cables and have yet to equal the warmth and musicality of the Apple TV. I'm having to change other aspects of my system to compensate for the lack of openness and air of the blue sound. My thinking is I'm going to spend around $800Au to upgrade the power supply board and maybe use an external linear power supply to get better than the blue sound is doing, and just to get to a place where it's as warm and musical as the Apple TV 3.

@MrRidikolus 3 года назад

The problem with the question is not the Apple TV, it's the connections. Use hdmi to your receiver, not optical. And stop using airplay, use the appletv Tidal app.

@Stormfury1403 5 лет назад

I spoke with the manager of the hardware for Apple TV. It does downsample the music coming out a bit, even with hdmi. I found a significant improvement with the Tidal Application on a macbook.

@svenschwingel8632 5 лет назад

The Apple TV has a fixed 48 kHz output. It will resample everything to that frequency.

@markpederson3155 3 года назад

Paul I have great sound using Tidal app on an Apple TV using the hdmi output with an Audioquest Chocolate cable!

@mag-wp6yt 5 лет назад

Paul, the great man that he is, is a little aloof to European mid level HiFi.

@CiquitaLeader 5 лет назад

My father has a pair of old school audiolab amp and preamp, together with TDL studio 3 speakers. They need a little more power because they are a bit inefficient, but boy do they sound fine.

@soring5880 5 лет назад

Audiolab is not something to write home about. Perhaps the m-dac but that’s about it. And I had the q dac, m dac, m pwr and 8200a amongst a plethora of other brands

@billd9667 5 лет назад

We North Americans like “science”, power and big speakers (exceptions for companies like First Watt, although even they are rooted in Big Power). It’s a culture thing. Europeans seem to lean toward more nebulous things like sweetness and style with specs at the bottom of the list. Compare a company like Naim with PS Audio and the differences are glaring, but there it is. Europeans consider us brutish while we question their masculinity. Vive la différence!

@snusmumriken232 4 года назад

Not knocking, but this video is light on specific evidence why the Apple TV is a middling streamer. The 64 bit processor architecture in the Apple TV HD and 4K is not really relevant to audio quality. I think comparing network streamers is difficult in general and requires a certain level of audio software knowledge which is what I was looking for.

@billd9667 5 лет назад

Something is lost at both junctures - Airplay and optical. Airplay doesn’t support DSD, MQA or Hi-Res. Optical introduces some jitter vs coaxial. The music is not bad, it’s just not as good as it might be. The Bluesound Node 2i will get you all of the above for $499.

@FooBar89 5 лет назад

Bill D can you hear that jitter?

@svenschwingel8632 5 лет назад

Jitter only really becomes a problem if the receiving device does not resync the data it gets. Other than that, optical is fine. It will only start to falsify information if either the connectors are dirty or the bending radius falls short of the recommended minimum. Coaxial, though, doesn't have either problem. Get a 75 Ohm connection with decent shielding plus good plugs and you're good to go.

@awdadwadwad1723 5 лет назад

Was about to write the same comment about Bluesound. Their performace for the price is amazing. But the part toslink vs coax is not relevant if you are using good DAC it will reclock stream no problem.

@mat.b. Год назад

I disagree completely. The HDMI on the Apple TV just doesnt sound as good as the toslink they had, and on top of that the unit upsamples all audio to 48k so you will never get 'bit perfect' audio out of it.

@nicktaylor7680 5 лет назад

B&W 685s are a bit bright but excellent speaker but so is the audiolab. Replaced my Audiolab with a valve preamp a/b power amp combo and it solved the problem.

@mustang37v6 5 лет назад

Paul, What if you connect the Apple TV to a DAC that re-clocks the digital stream? That should take care of the jitter coming out of the Apple TV device, not?

@ChrisSmith-tc4df 5 лет назад

The *first* thing that he should do is to cease streaming from a mobile device to the Apple TV, but instead download, install, and run the TIDAL app directly on the Apple TV itself. It's free and would provide an immediate improvement. Then consider the other options suggested from there. My impression of the Apple TV is that it is not a bit-perfect source device, but rather performs some level of audio processing. It's very decent as far as those go, but a full cut below bit-perfect. A Mac mini running macOS is by far the easiest way to get there, but with some research and possibly some added hardware/drivers, one can get a Windows PC to output bit-perfect audio as well. (Consider the Intel NUC for an ATV-like form-factor.) Otherwise your best bet is to use an external USB-to-audio bridge with a coaxial output - or a DAC with that all integrated into it to skip the digital audio interconnect issue entirely. As Paul suggests, HDMI audio is another route, but it too will suffer from some induced jitter, and you may end up extracting that audio out to TOSLINK or coax anyway to interconnect into your audio setup. Using a DAC with some sort of effective source anti-jitter technology solves allot of digital interconnect problems and allows for optical to be used effectively - especially given that TOSLINK is the popular/easier (built-in) implementation on PC-like devices. I've tried or have all of the above, but quite frankly as a practical matter my primary home theater setup consists of a variety of streamers along with a PC connected via HDMI into an LG OLED, which supports bridging of digital audio at up to a 192kHz sample rate out to a TOSLINK. The TOSLINK is then fed into a dedicated external DAC with source anti-jitter technology to resolve the inevitable temporal smearing by the LG. (It PLL's to the HDMI source.) I still have the USB 2.0-to-S/PDIF coax audio bridge in the setup, but quite frankly I don't need to switch to that often for most material. Paul's modesty aside, both of his company's current model DAC's each have their own implementations of source anti-jitter technology integrated into them, so they're both excellent choices. Their DirectStream DAC with the Network Stream II add-in provide an all-in-one solution that conveniently solves the above problems - at a price. Lower priced options leverage ESS SABRE DAC chips' Hyperstream technogy to de-jitter the source input material, but beware of inferior implementations that spoil the benefits. You're probably going to have to spend north of $1500 to get a DAC that's well-implemented enough to step into audiophile territory, because otherwise corners have been cut somewhere to build it down to a price.

@aeyb701 3 года назад

Other Product marketing labels: My in ground pool is the “swim-Rite 3000” . An upgrade on the old “Nev-r-Sink 500 Mk II”.

@karltodd2518 5 лет назад

I'm waiting for a decent streamer to come along! Using the optical output on my sonos zp 90 to feed a chord hugo at the moment. Sounds decent! However if I control sonos through the tidal app the quality does deteriorate. Works best if I access tidal through sonos. Shame as the tidal app is amazing. I'm a android user who would like MQA( I'm curious) balanced outputs. Decent Dac. USB digital output, Native Tidal, Quobuz etal. A decent power supply. Most importantly a decent app that doesn't make me scream! However my hope is we will soon be streaming DSD, maybe???

@RedTTHayo 5 лет назад

Dump that sonos. Really a waste to combine that beautiful chord with that junk. I had a sonos too. I couldn't believe it either but a streamer can be bad. And yes I used the digital coax output. My bluos is a lot better. But there are better options still.

@svenschwingel8632 5 лет назад

I really like my older Pioneer N-50A. Sound quality is fine and its successor even has built-in tidal support.

@karltodd2518 5 лет назад

@@RedTTHayo I did try the blusound node 2 . However it caused my Naim amp to buzz like angry bees. The dealer said that he has come across this before in their own demo room with Naim . The dealer explained there is a switch mode power supply in the blusound that was probably the problem. Hence the reason I want a steamer with a decent power supply.

@21farms 5 лет назад

paul, how come you didn't mention the PS audio directstream DAC with bridge installed? are you saying the mac mini is better than your bridge?

@Stormfury1403 5 лет назад

I think he tries to not push his own products most of the time and focuses on the question and most affordable/accessible solution to help with a person's thinking process.

@erictarbox 5 лет назад

I think that Paul is trying to avoid coming off as a parrot for his company. Seriously Paul, I watch your videos for the honest answers to honest questions without the sales pitch, but sometimes you can propose that your company has a better product than the product mentioned in the question and elaborate more about it. My concern is about Bluetooth and why so many people are using it to listen to and it is intended for voice transfer and High Fidelity is outside its designed parameters.

@Stormfury1403 5 лет назад

@@erictarbox The new bluetooth 5 on products like the Node 2i are perfectly fine for high fidelity. I know people who use it in a hifi setting and I can't hear anything missing.

@r423sdex 5 лет назад

The Allo Digione is better than the ps audio , and miles cheaper. :-)

@SuperMrGiraffe 5 лет назад

It’s not just about what Paul’s saying. It’s also how it is configured in their own reference system. Why bother with the Apple Mini in a reference setup meant to showcase PS Audio products.

@soring5880 5 лет назад

Or just get a raspberry pi with an allo digione and an ifi ipower brick. Well under the price for a Mac mini and well above in performance

@diebackmischung503 2 года назад

Im gonna use that apple tv 2021 with a denon x2700h I guess that will do

@r423sdex 5 лет назад

New dac's Don't worry about jitter. It would have to be shockingly bad for jitter to be a problem

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

This can't be more wrong. Take a thousands of dollars dac with the finest fento crystals to reduce jitter and it's still very obvious the sound improvement you get when you reduce input jitter

@CzornyLisek 5 лет назад

@@ClassifiedBrief There is no DAC chip in existence that cost that much. Aka the thing that actually do shit. Most expensive one is 50$ tops. Stupidly accurate clocks also arent that expensive and for them to have any meaning you must have whole system using same clock. The hell fanciest studio clock Antelope Audio Isochrone Trinity with shit ton of outputs to sync whole studio cost 3000$. And its build like absolute tank.

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

@@CzornyLisek a DAC's sound is mostly from the anaolge stage, not the dac chip. The real magic is in the analoge output stage. And I'm referring to total cost of the dac, not the chip. The fento crystals do reduce jitter. Having a whole clock for a system is a different topic all together.

@r423sdex 5 лет назад

@@ClassifiedBrief what rubbish , check out audiosciencereview.com . They measure dac's, most distortion on the latest dac chips is way below human hearing. :-) . You can even use a Chromecast audio with optical out to a dac for bit perfect audio .

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

@@r423sdex it's not all about measuring. The ear picks up things that just aren't measurable. Paul has videos going over the concept here on his channel. Look enjoy whatever you like but there is not a doubt on earth it doesn't make a huge difference in my system.

@johnsweda2999 5 лет назад

To Kevin! Try this first before you buy new speakers get yourself 2 or 4 for both speakers 10w Watts, each 1 Ohm metal wound ceramic resistors, put two resistors side-by-side twist the ends together and connect them to the Binding post between the positive of the woofer binding post and the treble binding post, connect your speaker wire to the bottom binding post only. It should take off the highs of the trouble just enough. If you still finds it bright get 1.4 Ohm resistors. Make sure the resistors are not touching any plastic and floating in the air if they're driven hard they could get quite warm

@poznipracker8113 5 лет назад

Oh dear! What a terrible idea! DON´t DO THAT! Will mess things up, including dynamics!

@johnsweda2999 5 лет назад

@@poznipracker8113 of course it won't mess anything up what you talking about don't know do you. All you're doing is reducing the DB to the tweeter minutely setting it back slightly to the rest of the soundstage give you better harmonic balance better mid-range and bass . Talking very little amount you could go even a lot more than that 2 ohms would be probably fine with some amplifiers or room you're in. Do it the other way as well if your speakers are lacking top end

@svenschwingel8632 5 лет назад

The Apple TV resamples every signal to 48 kHz before sending it out via Toslink. Just sayin'

@awdadwadwad1723 5 лет назад

thats why he said hdmi ok, rest not ok...

@henson2k 3 года назад

It would be so natural to use AppleTV as network streamer but it doesn't support >48kHz

@HiFiInsider 5 лет назад

Streaming music services itself is inferior to ripped CD in .WAV file or CD disc from a good player in sound quality.

@timgenardo265 5 лет назад

Meh no real difference on most genres between wav or 320kps mp3.

@awdadwadwad1723 5 лет назад

BS. There is absolutely no difference CD vs bitprefect data from Tidal (which you wont have using apple tv BTW).

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

Paul, while a Mac mini is probably better its still a very noisy computer. I wonder why you still recommend this versus something like sms 200 ultra that is a dedicated audio streamer with ultra low noise USB output and clock

@CzornyLisek 5 лет назад

USB is digital so unless Youre running like 50m of USB. There will be no difference

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

@@CzornyLisek this can't be more wrong, but alas another cable snober. Whatever makes you happy. There is jitter on the USB line. It affects the performance. Also the Mac has a very nosy power supply, you do know 5v is carried with the data on a usb line. It matters. It all matters. To say otherwise is just crazy and either you never tried it or you don't have a system that is reveling enough. I never believed in this stuff until my ears heard it.

@johnyang799 5 лет назад

Measurements.

@ClassifiedBrief 5 лет назад

@@johnyang799 you know Paul here knows cable make a difference? You might not wanna trust his opinion of your so sure about your measurements

@johnyang799 5 лет назад

@@ClassifiedBrief So what? Paul just brought up a topic. And why you are here watching paul? Huh? I saw your comment and replied. Has nothing to do with Paul. Btw cables do make difference.

@machavez00 5 лет назад

I have compared two CDs I have, Frank Zappa’s apostrophe/Over nite Sensation from Rykodisc and the Vaughan Brothers Family Style. I ripped both to my iMac in ALAC. I played both of them using my Apple TV 4K, PS3, and HD DVD player; all connect by HDMI to my Yamaha RX-V373 and 35 year old Bose 301 II speakers. I can’t tell a difference between all three. I have also used Apple Music and played some of “Paul’s Picks” and can say I hear the “metal of the cymbal” on the Shelby Lynne track, and the low synth from the first riff on the Boz Scaggs track. The Van Gelder remaster of Saxophone Colossus is amazing.

@googoo-gjoob 5 лет назад

i read the 1st 5 chapters today...loads of laughs. why would i buy an apple tv rather than jut streaming from my lg oled?

@MrLmp2109 5 лет назад

Air play audio is also pretty low res too so that won’t be helping, I’d change out amp not speakers as 6000 is fairly low end too

@bernhardmichaelfux308 5 лет назад

An Amplifier named "6000" ? A "Binford 6000?" Hargh Hargh Hargh... ^^ (I don`t think so tim...)

@doncrawford6017 5 лет назад

Paul is wrong about Apple TV sound quality! Just connect the Apple TV to the tv via HDMI and use the TV digital audio output (optic cable) into a D/A converter into your audio system. Using HDMI inputs for all sources ( cable Box), streaming boxes, and Blu-Ray players for audio out put, through the TV optic audio out, will give excellent audio quality.

@alvarovelezuribe 2 года назад

I do the same with a great sound

@clovisdacruz6078 2 года назад

I use the IFI Ipurifer2 before reaching the DAC but we are missing out on high resolutions.

@robbiefest 2 года назад

I've got an apple tv3 going out of optical into a Bryson DAC. It sounds fabulous. This week I've purchased a blue sound N130 node and it sounds very weak in comparison. I was hoping the blue sound would take up where the Apple TV misses, but so far the Apple TV is a much more musical experience. The blue sound might be a a bit cleaner, but it's also much more sterile and less airy. Clean does not necessarily mean more music. Sometimes clean means sucking out atmosphere from the recordings. the Apple TV 3 has tons of atmosphere , width, hight, depth, warmth , detail and sounds very lifelike in it's representation of real instruments and voice. I'm still waiting for my blue sound to get there. I'm using the same high end power cables and optical on both..

@aakar88 5 лет назад

Still using CD no plans to change until the industry forces me to.

@FungedeBagre 5 лет назад

AppleTV 4K still not perfect sound.

@JasonParr 5 лет назад

David Martins agreed. I ended up buying a node 2i which solved most of my unfolding issues with Tidal.

@janinapalmer8368 5 лет назад

I use and swear by Apple TV for streaming... I use HDMI o/p fed into an HDMI audio extractor module and straight into the pre amp... it's the simplest best and cheapest way to go ... anything else and you have diminishing returns and ultimate disappointment

@JasonParr 5 лет назад

Janina Palmer Apple TV still down samples by default. I think you're solution is a good one, but if you went to a modest steamer, like a node 2i into your preamp, you would be blown away by the quality difference. It's night and day.

@timgenardo265 5 лет назад

@@JasonParr Disagree with you hear. I think the node 2i is pretty poor even when compared to most of apples audio output(does not really matter if its 44khz sample vs 96khz etc). Search "Review and Measurements of Bluesound NODE 2i Streamer" and click the audioscience review link. In Short it performs on par with an HP laptop...

@JasonParr 5 лет назад

Tim genardo amrim said himself in that very thread that the toslink in the unit he reviewed was broken. I run mine to a parasound p6 preamp. Any fiddling I do using Apple TV the sound difference is noticable. But the P6 is also capable of unfolding 32 bit and bypassing the internal DAC of the Node 2i gets a damn good stream. Are there better streamers out there, yes. But Apple TV is not one of them.

@timgenardo265 5 лет назад

@@JasonParr He was still able to measure it "I decided to stream the bits to it and was pleasantly surprised when Roon showed it as an end-point, albeit, with a red warning saying it is not certified. I streamed my 1 kHz tone to it and got stable, and proper output:" . Performed pretty poorly and I wouldn't be surprised if a good working toslink unit performed the same. Also I doubt any person can tell the difference between cd quality and 96khz.

@JasonParr 5 лет назад

Tim genardo "also, I doubt anyone can tell the difference between CD quality and 96khz." You want to use objective evidence and then insert an opinion as a fact. In my experience, as a musician for 30+ years, is that what one person experiences in sound is vastly different than the next. No two people hear exactly the same and I would argue that just because a meter doesn't pick up a difference, doesn't mean there is no Sonic difference. I have listened to my gear in different configurations, I can definitely hear a difference between Apple TV, Bluetooth, to amp or preamp. There is subtlety and variation as each component is added. I love Apple TV. I use it for all of my television streaming. But even my Chromecast sonically stands better than the Apple TV, to my ears. That's the great part about this hobby, we each have an individual experience and relationship to sound and music, hell, even certain gear. I know plenty of people that will listen to a pair of Klipsch and not hear a difference between that and a pair of B&W though you and I probably do. It's purely subjective.

@Geerladenlad 5 лет назад

@dajikbatarang1 5 лет назад

I think the Apple TV outputs everything at 48khz, regardless of its native sampling rate.

@svenschwingel8632 5 лет назад

You beat me to it by 17 minutes 😂

@Tobymt1925 5 лет назад

I use a Google chrome cast with a digital out of my TV $35 and it sounds awesome... BTW I hate Apple

@Wooster77 5 лет назад

Same. I have 3 chromecast audios. Sadly, they are discontinued, but I think the current chromecast can be used to stream audio via hdmi.

@Tobymt1925 5 лет назад

@@Wooster77 I have the video ones and they work great and unbelievable audo quality on certain RU-vid videos

@Wooster77 5 лет назад

@@Tobymt1925 Great. Can you stream audio only from plex, spotify, tidal, etc. while your tv is off?

@Tobymt1925 5 лет назад

@@Wooster77 No the TV has to be on. And I have only used Pandora and RU-vid.

@themoistgreenorganic 5 лет назад

I started my system with an Apple TV and used Spotify and Tidal. Then the Apple TV oftentimes lost my connection thru AirPlay. Then someone said go with the CA dongle and that was improved from a connection perspective and streamed ata higher bit rate as well. Then I switched to a dedicated streamer and now the sound quality is much improved, but so was the cost!