No video :(

Will it run WITHOUT OIL????

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How long can an engine actually run when we lose oil pressure, and is there anything we can do to mitigate loss of performance when it occurs? A loss of engine oil pressure can occur in many different ways and have different outcomes, but this was our experience...
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Опубликовано:

5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 192

@evil_me 4 года назад

As a (non aircraft certified) mechanic with an engineering background, the smoke coming out of the hose is basically the oil vapors cooking off in the engine. The oil temperature sensor normally resides in the pan or a line, without oil touching it it will falsely read the air temperature it is in contact with. The rpm variation is a typical sequence of events... Runs normally then when the oil film starts to break down and cook out of the bearings it will lose some rpm, further running starts to heat the bearings and cause expansion and extra friction... At a certain point the bearings wear enough to free up and rpm will increase slightly... After this point its just pray 🤣 the reason at the last moments of life the engine likes less throttle is it lowers the internal cylinder pressure and reduces load on the rod bearings letting it free up slightly. If you get unlucky the front main bearing that takes the main prop thrust load will bind up and lock up sooner.

@deeeeeds 4 года назад

I'm gonna be honest, $119/hr wet feels expensive for this plane now.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Firesale! $9/hr

@WinginWolf 4 года назад

That's cheap here (Texas). That used to be the mid-range of aircraft price at our school. Now it's the lowest.

@TrevorPilot9 4 года назад

This just hurts me so much to watch 😣 but great video!

@loupcityairservice9740 4 года назад

Makes me mad to see someone destroy a good engine

@WinginWolf 4 года назад

Maybe might also take into consideration that there's no ram air to cool the engine.

@helenerrahali428 3 года назад

The best educative video in real test engine failure. Thank you.

@JA-pb7oz 4 года назад

I'm almost at the stage where I can't watch, but I can't help myself. All the years of by the book maintenance undone in 20 minutes. Lycoming build some stout engines, great video.

@Mash4096 4 года назад

Very interesting video. You don't get to see destructive tests often! Reminds me a bit of Mythbusters.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

We hope it might help somebody in the long run!

@andymunnings9109 Год назад

"I like your experiments. Everyone should know? This is why a frequent oil flow or pressure check is important. I like how detailed you are. Your staging events;(Whereby? It could happen to anyone on a routine flight.") It was a good understanding professionally done." 👍

@AkPacerPilot 4 года назад

Cool... I’ve heard stories of guys having lost oil pressure with no where to land and having upwards of 20 minutes. Another thing, in flight it may last longer, as you’re getting more air cooling. The bad thing is, if you aren’t paying attention to your oil pressure, you might not notice it until you’re loosing power.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Great point!

@thiarruda7490 4 года назад

“Rent me $119 wet” Not anymore

@airwipe1639 4 года назад

The dry sump is *actually dry*

@sonshinelight 4 года назад

Wait... He added water... It's still wet. Whaddya mean???

@Lycon721995 4 года назад

I've never even heard of any engine running that long without oil. Very impressive!

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Ya... It's definitely a surprise

@goingtoscotland 4 года назад

Doug Masters 150 Aerobat didn't even run that long after Notcher had Packer loosen his pressure cap.

@nsant 4 года назад

Should have done this test at 1500' sissy. Jk. Cool test. Thanks for the vid.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Lol...you sitting right seat on that flight?

@antiNuetron 3 года назад

Yeah. Just circle around an airport. You'd be fine. haha You could do a real power off landing demonstration.

@carlosaircraftmechxnic2819 3 года назад

This was an awesome 👏🏾 video!!! I’ve had engines come in with holes in a piston or a cracked cylinder but haven’t seen a detailed view of an engine failure. Thanks! I’m looking into doing ground school with y’all.

@timquain5341 2 года назад

So hard to watch a beautiful piper get destroyed. Great for learning but horrible when the dream is to own one. Thanks for the vid. I'm learning a lot from your channel.

@NickMurray 2 года назад

This video is quite the rollercoaster ride.

@eryka.the1 3 года назад

Last week, I had a loss of oil pressure in air. Reality was that I couldn’t fly for more than 1.5 minutes before I lost completely the engine and had the cockpit blasted with smoke. Resulted in an off airport landing at night, 2 lights polls and few broken bones.

@sarathw5740 4 года назад

I will not do this test even in my own 25-year-old car. How ever, I got the point. Now I know why we check the oil pressure. Good video.

@sb859 4 года назад

That was SO cool! Good to know if I see low oil pressure I don't have to make a panic decision.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Ya.. Glad to hear this gave some insight

@JankyShack 4 года назад

My guess is you were losing power because the hydraulic lifters were collapsing because there wasn't enough oil in them to keep them fully extended. So basically some of the valves weren't opening all the way or at all. Obviously the increased friction on all the surfaces too, but I'm talking about when it starts vibrating from losing cylinders.

@mrrv6apilot 4 года назад

lifters fill themselves and dont need oil pressure to keep them inflated, as you learn when trying to drain them to check rod clearances.

@marsgal42 4 года назад

Interesting demonstration. Isn't there a certification requirement that the engine must run for so many minutes without oil? The Cherokee I did the bulk of my flight training in is grounded (permanently) due to structural issues. She had a good life.

@TheReadBaron91 4 года назад

Laura Halliday I do believe that they have to be able to run normally at half the typical/rated oil quantity. Not good for the engine, but keeps you in the air.

@adamcorby804 4 года назад

Excellent demonstration!!! Thanks!

@scottpatterson4105 4 года назад

Remember the Gulf oil ads draining the oil and driving around Manhattan for four hours? As if brand makes a difference. Actually seizure will usually be at the main bearings and the more worn the bearings the longer it will take. Restart is usually possible after it's off for a while.

@pilotken8685 2 года назад

Looking at picking up an old Cherokee here, heh have any parts left over :) ? awesome series! Keep it up

@flygy481 4 года назад

That was awesome! Practical knowledge at its finest, thanks!

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Glad to help!!

@edthompson2043 4 года назад

This is such a great idea with a plane that’s lost its airworthiness cert. Thanks!!

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

For sure!!

@Keys879 4 года назад

Next up: How to sell a gently used low hour, low compression aircraft on the market! Awesome though, really.

@djdalite 4 года назад

this is solid content, thanks for taking one for the team

@mxcollin95 3 года назад

So that’s what people do with rentals??? As an airplane owner it hurts to watch this but is good info to know.

@stabinghobo57 3 года назад

Amazing stuff, keep the great content coming!

@Palmerdsm 4 года назад

I’m assuming it lost its airworthiness

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

It has indeed

@ericrmd1448 Год назад

I watch until 3:20 and stopped the video. What I have learned is that draining all your oil will increase engine rpm. I’m off to go flying now. 👍

@NickMirro 2 месяца назад

Wow nothing like a real life example! So if oil pressure tanks in flight, less than 3 minutes of thrust remaining. Would like to have been able to hear the motor a little bit more. Still great vid!

@AV8R_1 4 года назад

Love this series as a Cherokee 180 owner! Very interesting!

@HighFlight2k2 4 года назад

Is there a back story to this air frame? Was it a write-off for some reason?

@airwipe1639 4 года назад

Week or two ago he kicked out the window of some Cherokee not sure where that went, this one is different I think.

@daman737 4 года назад

@@airwipe1639 same one

@RC21114 4 года назад

Says right above in the description that it had serious structural problems and was going to be scrapped.

@gglovato 4 года назад

i can't find the link in the description to the teardown in your site(or browsing your site, can't find it either)

@golfbravowhiskey8669 4 года назад

Oh yes, the older ( hrs on components ) the motor the longer it will last. We had a old wore out Kubota. 60 horse tractor that they changed the oil and did not put oil in it. It made it 1.2 clock hours pulling a 10 foot cutter behind it before it shredded the crank. And really the only damage was caused from spun rod bearings.

@johncummings4494 4 года назад

Jon - just curious, what was so wrong with the airplane that junking it made more sense than fixing/maintaining or selling it?

@gorgly123 4 года назад

I was wondering the same thing.

@PostcardsfromAlaska 4 года назад

Nobody loves moldy old cherokees enough to pay $$$ to make it airworthy again. The 0-320 probably did have some value as a core, but not much else.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Ya... It was going to cost much more to repair than have replaced

@wlbrobinson 4 года назад

@@PostcardsfromAlaska YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT, THE CORE VALUE WHEN RUNNING IS WORTH > $10k , A REAL WASTE. THE 0-320 IS A REALLY DESIRABLE ENGINE FOR A LOT OF PLANES.

@michaelb.8953 4 года назад

@@wlbrobinson It's all good as he'll make up the difference in RU-vid views. Just do him a favor and make sure you watch the ads all the way through.

@bfokid 4 года назад

Very interesting video! Thanks for posting this experiment.. learned a lot.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Glad it helped! Cheers!!

@feetgoaroundfullflapsC 4 года назад

That is not the way to drop the oil of a plane. You go over elementary schools over Los Angeles and drop the oil, like that Delta 777 did with jet fuel in January.

@rjbishop12 4 года назад

Wow- really taking one for the team! This has to be a first for a GA airplane....

@jayphilipwilliams 4 года назад

Fascinating! Thanks, Jon.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Much appreciated!!

@mytech6779 4 года назад

I think the big issue is that with no alarm you may waste the first 5 minutes before noticing the oil loss. Second up, the air-frame may be scrap but the engine probably still had substantial value for parts or rebuilding. Still nice to see the empirical result.

@marsgal42 4 года назад

Instrument scan: no more than a few seconds. When my plane's alternator packed up last summer it was about five seconds to the instrument scan, five seconds of WTF?!, then grab the checklist.

@ozzie-sk9dh 3 года назад

Thanks. I’ll try this on my Cessna at the weekend.

@thrustvector8619 4 года назад

Less than 5 minutes in my IO-470. Fortunately, I made the runway. (T82, August 2005)

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Happy to hear that!

2 года назад

Hi. I'm curious to know what structural damages that aircraft had. It does not show any sign of collision, or a hard landing maybe. Thanks

@rafaelcarvalho6222 4 года назад

Nice experience. Thanks!

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Happy to help!!

@Wolficorntv 4 года назад

Wow. Surprised it lasted that long. Great series you got going here.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Thanks!! Keep an eye out for the rest of the series

@BlueSky-uz1tv 4 года назад

You should donate the engine to ERU or some other A&P school to tear down and see if they can guess what happened. Would be interesting to see what the crank looks like.

@AV8R_1 4 года назад

There would also be a slight difference because the airplane moving through the air would cool the engine

@jbrauertn 4 года назад

Very cool test to share! Same old rule applies fly the plane and you’ll probably be okay. Panic and...

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Agreed!

@amirrashkan6216 3 года назад

Great practical experiment....expensive though, if u have to overhaul the engine.. lol

@SileightyS13 4 года назад

I'm curious what the structural damage was? Is the wing spar bolt holes?

@rcbif101 4 года назад

16:31 - Chances one in a million, but would have been one nasty bite if the engine popped to life there. That was pretty dumb....

@orangerc2358 4 года назад

Rcbif could it still pop to life if the magnetos were off? I’m assuming he switched off mags from inside the cockpit.

@rcbif101 4 года назад

@@orangerc2358 - Yes, you can have a broken mag switch, a broken p-lead, or bad p-lead connection. You should test kill the engine by using the mag switch at the end of every flight, but even then, one of those components could fail or let go from that test. You might think it's good, shut-down with the mixture as usual, do something dumb with the prop, and then you're covered in blood. Happened at my local flight school. Luckily only one cylinder weakly popped and the guy only got stitches to the head. Extremely lucky. A loaded gun with the safety on, even if broken, is still a loaded gun.

@robinfryer479 3 года назад

Rather a waste of an engine, but could save lives. I wonder if the engine could be rebuilt. There could be heat-distortion / warping of many components. It’d be jolly interesting to know what components have become unsafe, though showing no ill-effects.

@rsrguy 4 года назад

All the old circle track racers had a saying..." It made more power just before it let go"

@vidmikevid 4 года назад

Good video, educational. But kinda sad 😢 😭. Thanks for sharing

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Ya... Agreed, but at least we can bring out some educational value

@richardheinichen8279 3 года назад

Very Funny. I got a laugh out of the water cooling moment. I hope the mags were off.

@vittoriafiorentini8276 3 года назад

Amazing videos, male more like these please

@jonathankent5898 4 года назад

Interesting video series! By the way, what caused the structural damage that totaled this aircraft?

@chrisbowpiloto 4 года назад

Nice video, but please do land asap if this happens to you. Failures are unpredictable

@bradledford8877 4 года назад

Awesome informative vid

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Thanks! Feel free to share it around a bit

@Arlen6010 4 года назад

I wonder if they had used slick 50 or some other additive in their oil in the past. Could that be why it lasted so long and didn't throw a rod.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Nothing like that used in the past...would like to try it again on another engine with additive, but ya know...kinda expensive

@Arlen6010 4 года назад

@@fly8ma.comflighttraining199(expensive) I'm sure of that.

@jonathankent5898 4 года назад

Check out Project Farm's channel. There are videos on there where he tests different oils and additives in small gas engines.

@ItsKibet 4 года назад

Hey Jon, so what is the story with this plane.I know you have had this plane on your channel for a long time.Is it not airworthy anymore? I keep checking out cheap planes to buy.As a Cessna guy, pipers seem to be a good cheap choice under 20K.I was curious about your bird.

@PostcardsfromAlaska 4 года назад

I figured you would get less than 5 minutes and thrown rod. Pretty interesting test. Next, do an IO-520. I’ll wait.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Have one to donate? A little low on cash.... Can you use a PPP load to buy a 520?

@PostcardsfromAlaska 4 года назад

FLY8MA.com Flight Training I’ll scrounge around, see what turns up. If you can get her to run again, I think you ought to put some fix-a-flat in the tire, and taxi over to some gravel, do a study on prop vortices with varying winds, demonstrate how to get moving without fragging the prop. My first boss in AK bushflying 20 years ago, taught me the tricks of the trade. Keep pointed upwind, clear the path of wheels from rocks before taxiing, don’t try to turn until you have momentum, park strategically, etc. But my biggest “aha” was the vortex under the prop. It takes several seconds to form after RPM stabilizes. If you can keep the RPMs changing, the vortex can’t develop, and you’ll be way less likely to suck water, dust and gravel. Short bursts of power, rather than steady rise, to get her moving. Once you’re in motion upwind, you’re good. If there is a tailwind matching your speed, you might want to taxi faster, or continue to use bursts. Flying cubs, 206, 180, beaver, otter, Navajos, 441s, King Airs off gravel, mud, sand, water, for 15000 hours, listening for / observing prop erosion postflight , and watching lots of other guys frag their props, have shown these tricks to be worthwhile.

@richardseton7014 4 года назад

Excellent info on taxi on gravel technique Yann! Thanks.

@Sailingairplanes 4 года назад

Great great work mike

@joed-aviator5614 4 года назад

Did somebody say overhaul?.....nice video 👍🏾

@IAmAFixer 4 года назад

I think maybe an intro video to why you are destroying this aircraft would have been helpful (unless I missed it). That would have been educational; to talk through the decision to not restore an aircraft to airworthiness status

@HiTechRob 4 года назад

It's ALIVE!!!!!!

@timothychua7832 4 года назад

Hi there!! I'm a really big fan on the way you demonstrate these thngs. Can post of the link on the follo up on this video and the engine? I am having a hard time looking for it in your website. Thank you and take care. Safe skies

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Hey! We don't have a followup uploaded quiet yet, but we do have the rest of this series coming out periodically in the next couple months

@thompsonbr87 4 года назад

"Rent Me" ....no thanks.

@sawyerbeals5105 3 года назад

Was there something wrong with this plane already or what? Just curious

@yucannthahvitt251 4 года назад

What's the serious structural damage and what is it from? Hard landing? Over G? Corrosion?

@tedstollman2163 4 года назад

i wonder how much longer this would run for with a premium oil / fuel additive like moly

@robinfryer479 3 года назад

PS. Throwing cold water at it is not necessarily going to do it much good at all.

@airplanegeek893 4 года назад

What’s the story behind this airplane?? Prop Strike? Sad to get it cannibalized but as the owner you know better than me about its situation.

@samsonclerveau9913 4 года назад

It painful watching this I just love that plane 😢 but am learning

@sonshinelight 4 года назад

Stiff uppah lip, and all that sorta rot!

@stephenmccreery6511 4 года назад

less throttle is less fuel or if course more lean

@chuckmackenzie8753 4 года назад

If you are parting out aircraft are you interested in selling that LED landing light?

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

It might have gone already, but if ya want fill out this form while we sort everyone's requests out: fly8ma.com/ask/

@markmcdaniel3975 4 года назад

Whats the back story of this plane to treat it like this?

@stephenmccreery6511 4 года назад

the engine last time depend on the workload at the time the oil is gone

@AV8R_Surge 4 года назад

Why lowering power while lean created more rpm?

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Feeding the cylinders too much air at too low an RPM...you need more RPM with a wide open throttle plate to get the right mixture coming from the carb

@mytech6779 4 года назад

Maybe a mixing issue, the throttle plate being partly closed will create turbulence that helps stir the air and fuel more uniformly, some manifolds and engines naturally have problems mixing and evenly distributing the mix to the cylinders. This is also a primary advantage of multi-port fuel injection, with each cylinder having an injector the richness can be tuned and matched.

@sheiladikshit5110 Год назад

pretty sure the flight club's not letting you return after this one.

@ericbuhrendorf 4 года назад

I’m not sure why you’re doing this to your plane but wow! So good but so sad lol

@billryland6199 4 года назад

Why did you kill that Lycoming?

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

It was headed for scraps anyway.. Thought we could maybe make some educational videos before then

@MJ-fh8fw 4 года назад

I'm still painting my house.

@bigtires100 4 года назад

Losing oil into a bucket beside the plane is one thing losing it inside the cowl is another. You’re not going to be spending 20 minutes looking for a place to land while the engine is on fire.

@MichaelHolroyd 4 года назад

lol you guys are nuts but interesting datapoint!

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 4 года назад

Hopefully it helps folks stay calm!

@MichaelHolroyd 4 года назад

@@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 Yeah I have to admit I figured it'd last ~60 seconds or so. Clearly you actually have a lot of time to work with.

@simonwiltshire7089 4 года назад

Meh... that plane is mint compared to the one I learned to fly in! haha

@iwolchuckup 4 года назад

I was surprised that leaning raised the RPM, you'd think without oil some extra fuel would be a good thing.

@AustNRail 4 года назад

Why?

@shermancouch9964 4 года назад

Did you consider what might happen if you get some flames in that engine? I'd be OK with this stunt if you had the fire department standing by, but without the fire fighters, this is just nutz. That's my 2 cents.

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 2 года назад

What is going to burn? The metal?

@markhull1366 4 года назад

First, I'm a retired A&P with 35+ years in Part 121 operations. I realize this is your aircraft to do with as you please, but don't you have the engine logs? Even a timed out Lycoming, will have a lot of value. Just because an airframe is deregistered, that doesn't effect the powerplant (if logbook available). Even if the engine log isn't available, it still has considerable core value. This exercise really doesn't serve any useful purpose IMHO. Without an aural alarm or master warning visual annunciator for oil pressure, that engine will be close to seizing before most pilots become aware of the issue which negates this exercise. Even if it's caught immediately, the time before total loss of power will vary greatly (as you stated). I'm sorry, willfull destruction of an otherwise servicable aviation powerplant will likely loose you respect (at least in the aviation community).

@ChampionJockey_James 10 месяцев назад

Why 😢

@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 9 месяцев назад

for educational purposes, it was a fun test.

@sheiladikshit5110 Год назад

$119/hr wet + $30k for damages.

@michaelmitiszek1538 4 года назад

It isn't good for the engine, is it?

@mike_oe 4 года назад

That was a thumbs down from me, I'm afraid. I so missed to hear what the engine actually sounded like. That would have been worth more than the constant commenting.

@Stang723 4 года назад

Throw a bottle of Z Max in it and send it!

@mcshaggle 3 года назад

Can somebody please tell me what units that timer was counting in? Twos of seconds???

@tag180rotax 4 года назад

Next up, how many cigarettes do you need to smoke daily to develop cancer? Lets find out!

@WinginWolf 4 года назад

ahahahahah

@scottpatterson4105 4 года назад

Pack and a half a day, 50 years so far. Nothing yet but I'll get back to you if something happens. Chances are pretty low so don't hold your breath...no pun intended...lol

@WinginWolf 4 года назад

Why is the window broken? Did some hooligan break in? It seems they also stole your GPS!

@WinginWolf 4 года назад

@@SentientSingularity Hahah yeah I know, was hoping to sound unaware.