Sam, your British OO modeling biases keep showing in these N scale reviews. It would be nice to see you approach these models from a more N-scaler perspective. A few pointers: - Plastic vs. metal: at this scale, plastic allows for better and finer detailing than metal. - Weight: light weight is a non-issue for modern mechanisms and shouldn't be part of a review. Most Japanese N scale MU motor wagons weight between 60 and 80 gr and can easily move a 12-car train. Tractive power in N mostly depends of the number of powered axles. - Traction tires: they are a standard on worldwide N scale since decades. There is nothing wrong with them. Stop complaining about them ;) - Details: N scale can pack an incredible amount of details. Chinese N scale locomotives often feels like miniature H0 models due to the amount and finesse of their details with metal handrails and incredibly legible prints.
Sam you have to stop thinking N Gauge is Cheaper because it’s smaller. The prices tend to match OO equivalent. This is especially true of Graham Farish / Bachmann. Whether it should be, is a different question. One other thing. Try a 1980s made Minitrix. There terrible for accuracy and mechanisms are really complicated. But they just work so well, and tend to have working lights. They put most modern N Gauge to shame on reliability
I can see locomotives being a similar price, smaller and more intricate stuff afterall. rolling stock however agree on Minitrix, I used to have a "class 27 (ish)" locomotive, easily the most reliable I had
i ordered a Kato D51 for just under 60€ somedays ago for a steam engine its a pretty good price. You can get really good Kato and Tomix Diesel and Electric ones for 35-45€ too
Good to see another N gauge review Sam, but these are very old now and have been bettered quite dramatically. You will find that each and every Dapol tender loco uses the same mechanism. Farish tender locos are completely different, but some are still tender drive such as the Black 5. I would recommend a Castle, Duchess, C Class, N Class, Merchant Navy Etc from Farish - all loco drive. I have had lots of these A4s over the years and there are one or two issues to look out for and improvements that can be made.
I have had one of these since 2019. I'm pleased to report my example does stay on the track, and there are no visible glue marks, but the side rods keep falling off and the loco to tender wires had broken away two times, now the tender wheels are doing all the picking up. I vow never to get a Dapol N gauge tender steamie ever again. ☹ It's still my favourite N gauge loco, I'm too much of a Gresley simp. 😆
I'm in Canada, I currently model Ontario Northland in N and for a new layout I wanted to build a GWR-themed one. I bought 4 N-gauge British steamers, 3 of them are Dapol (28xx and 2 Panniers) and all 3 of them run very poorly. At this point I've given up on British N-gauge steamers and I'll probably switch to OO for a layout. Unfortunate as I really like N-gauge but with that failure rate the cost just isn't worth it.
Thank you for doing some more n scale models! I model in n scale, and I also live in the USA. I like to watch these reviews so that way I know I don't waste my money and time.
Hi Sam. When you were running across the points, there was a distinct bump over them. I suggest looking at the frog area. It needs fettling. Great review.
Ah, a good old a4 - even at the smaller scale the loco looks amazing! I personally think the 00 gauge ones look much better, but considering the size, this is quite impressive! Those little etched details are record breaking commemorative plates that go on the sides of the loco, in case you were wondering! Easily my favourite class of loco, especially the garter blue mallard - just got a NRM exclusive glossy mallard, and it's incredible! Great video as always sam, and im always a sucker for the good old a4!
Thanks Jack I think so too! Yes I'd say I prefer the OO ones as they're much more substantial - but I think this is pretty much as good as you could hope for in N scale! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains: It might be "Pretty much as good as you could hope for in N scale! (sic)", but in N GAUGE, from the likes of Arnold, Fleischmann, Kato, Minitrix and Roco, I have NEVER suffered any such issues.😀
I have 5 A4s and 3 A3/A1's and 3 B1's. All have had minor quibble issues over the years, but all easily fixed and when these are upgraded with a Tramfabriek Coreless Motors and Zimo MS Sound Decoders, completely different locomotive. All My Dapol Tender Locos get a motor replacement, Tender Wires Replacement, Zimo MS Series Sound Fitment and the front bogies screws get adjusted to ensure they track as some are too loose or too tight from the factory, which is what your britannia is suffering. The Dapol 5 Pole Super Creep Motor is the worst part of these locos, too loud and not powerful enough. The whole upgrade process takes me 30 mins from start to finish and I have a model then that runs flawlessly, sounds great and provides enjoyment Maybe do a video on upgrading these locos to 2024 Standard (Coreless Motor, DCC Sound, etc) and then compare to an unmodified loco vs a modified loco
Thanks - It's good to see some N scale reviews! Would love to see a review of the dapol M7 you bought. In my experience I've found that those Peco settrack points in that configuration will upset almost anything that isn't an 0-6-0 or a diesel, so it's impressive the A4 handled them so well. If you want a recommendation for a really good locomotive in N - try and get hold of a Farish SECR N or SECR C class, they are excellent models and the cab detail is on another level, especially on the C. I'm really hoping that we'll get another round of the Farish C class produced in future.
Hi mukka, Hope this finds you and Claire both well. Thanks for the interesting review. Can I suggest when you start filming you go over the rolling stock to remove hairs and dust. Some of the fluff on that loco looks like rope at that scale! 😂 That tender drive is horrendous. I cannot unsee the kicking and screaming which occurs between the loco and tender on bends due ro the chunky, clunky and awkward design. Not my cup of tea chum. Thanks anyway. Regards from Oz. Gaz
Artist books will tell you that something further away looks flatter. Thus smaller N gauge locos (more distant) will look duller than bigger OO Logos (closer). It might be worth placing a OO & N loco at a distance where they appear to be the same size & comparing their look. It would be even better if you can include a photo of the real thing.
maybe the Bachmann n scale thomas set could need a review because the question is if it,s worth the money our is it another thomas rip off for me it will be a rip off
The round etches are for the speed record plaques. A fun A4 fact is they only have sand pipes for the forwards direction. Therefore on a railway like the NYMR they can struggle a fair bit in reverse if the railhead is wet/greasy.
Good review Sam, this is a pretty nice model, ignoring the tender driveshaft mechanism causing some problems... I don't model N Scale but having something like this would be really special on a N Scale layout, you can't go wrong with an a4! - The Monster of Monsters
Sam, I've searched your channel but I could not find any other trains than UK models. Did you ever tested a Fleischmann, Piko or a Minitrix loco (N-scale 1:160) I wonder how these brands would stand the tests you do.
Highly recommend trying out graham farish’s merchant navy A lovely loco with a decent weight no traction tires Most importantly A very smooth and quiet runner You definitely will love that engine
I think I said under the Britannia review, but to my knowledge all Dapol tender locos have the same basic drive mechanism. When they started to do this many people questioned it, and the trade off to achieve more detail on this A4 over, say, the old Graham Farish design, seems a bit steep to me. Just a note; the couplings in the first accessory bag are a pair of Dapol’s own “Easy Shunt” magnetic opening couplings. They can be made to work very well for remote uncoupling and it’s a shame that most Dapol models no longer come with them. I would urge you to try some of Dapol’s Diesels (I have class 27, 56, 58 and 121) as they are good models. Oh and the HST as well. For comparison, Graham Farish do many steam locos, with none of their tender locos using a drive shaft (it’s a mixed bag of tender and loco drives). Great to see you continuing with N gauge.
Hello Sam, would like to see you take a look in Kato's n scale JNR D51 released back in 2016, I owned two of these (D51-200 & D51-498) and I'm pleased to say they're decent performer around the track
You might make a video comparing this with the TT:120 example for the benefit of those who have not decided which scale to go for. What are the pros and cons of N compared to TT? T,hanks for all your efforts making these videos.
Hi Sam, I do always love a good review, irrespective of scale. Very pretty for how tiny she is. However, that’s not why I’m messaging you, I just wondered if you were ever going to have a look at the Cavalex 56 or whatever their upcoming creations are? Please don’t see this as a thinly veiled ‘demand’ etc, I’m purely curious. I have seen loads of other people review them and they have a few features I’d bank my house on that you would like. Though, and this is going to sound a bit sycophantic, though all true, they just don’t do the job you do. They try, bless ‘em, but they haven’t your skill/intellect/feeling for the job, call it what you will, as you. I don’t necessarily trust them either whereas we know that nobody is pullin’ your strings, so to speak. Anyway, please tell me to keep my beak out if necessary, as I say, it is purely curiosity and a want to see things done right :) :)
Received my P2 with the steam generator and overall it’s fantastic, haven’t had the opportunity to try out the steam generator yet though, also recently fitted my bachmann class 90 with sound as well, it also gives me the servo operated pantograph which is a cool feature Decent overall review here Sam, my dad has 2 N gauge A4s, one is Sir Nigel Gresley and a minitrix one which is Mallard plus on that one while it’s N gauge it actually has forward lights, A4s have already been interesting in N gauge, they have always had the valences removed until dapol produced a valanced one but unfortunately with that one dapol had to leave off a piece of the valve gear.
Great video, I dont model steam myself, but I find these reviews interesting. I would recommend you look at the Kato class 800, it's better than Hornbys 00 model! I would also recommend Dapol's HST and the Farish class 158.
The Loco performed well over those points which are the worst for any loco other than an 060 over med or long radius these locos perform great. The real fun starts when you need to change a traction tyre which will eventually be required. In terms of pulling power mine pulled 9 coaches up a Helix with no issue. Nice review.
I've just repaired a Dapol 57XX for a club member as it ran very badly. The problem is the electrical pickups being the wheel shoulders in the bearings getting covered in oil on the loco. Some Isopropynol and jobs a good 'un, I've used a little silicon grease on the gears and it runs beautifuly. Careful of too much oil.
I think I've found the issue with your britannia, the traction tyres actually make it harder to turn, meaning instead of turning, it acts like a tractor and climbs the rails, my new A3 had traction tyres that were thicker than the wheel flanges and needed replaced, mine was 2nd hand however Also if it helps, dapol will be upgrading these to coreless motors, so I'd look out for them
It's a shame when companies dispatch models that are so substandard. Back in the 1980s Marklin could produce a z gauge loco with the motor in the loco not the tender and there was no glue splatter or paint defects neither was there poor painted running gear, and finally it stayed on the track.
I want to switch TT:120 so bad by Hornby barely keeps up with it. If we can get Bachmann to join the range and possibly Dapol we can have some other and better engines
Apparently the Dapol N gauge terrier and pannier are very good models, but I don’t have either, so take that with a pinch of coal!! Good review as always Sam!
Great vid Sam! Quite a nice loco I will admit though I do think the tender driven design is a bit naff for such an expensive loco - especially when smaller locos like the pannier have a motor in them too!!
It could be the Britannia doesn't like setrack small curves? You never saw Brits on dock railways. My N Scale railway in the 1970s/80s had 3ft (large rad curves) and was an inverted figure of 8 double track (96ft run double track). My Minitrix Britannia ran beautifully round it but setrack curves, abysmal. Most 70s/80s N Gauge steamers hated them too. The diesels eat everything up; Minitrix 27s, Warships and anything Graham Farish didn't mind them. Slightly larger rad curves should make a difference! John Harrison. Wirral. PS. Layout's gone now, but I still have all my stock; all in working order!!! Jbh
Hi Sam, nice to see another N gauge review. I was impressed with how the A4 coped with those set track points, did it state the minimum radius on the packaging or instructions? My biggest beef with Dapol tender locomotives is the lack of consistency. My first was either a Manor, sold under the Ixon brand, or a B1. Both were "bargain bin" locos, I don't think they were more than £40 each and they were (and still are) great runners. Off the back of those, I bought two more B1s and some Dapol-branded Manors. One B1 died with a puff of smoke (repaired under warranty, but still not a great runner and since sold) and no Manor could match the running of the first one until I bought another Ixon Manor a couple of years ago. I also have an A3 Flying Scotsman that can't keep its valve gear attached and runs like a bag of bolts. I also have a "sold as seen" A1 from Dapol's factory seconds that looks and runs perfectly. It seems like the less you pay, the better Dapol steam locos get. I also have a couple of Halls, again the one I bought new doesn't like left (or is it right) hand curves because the tender drive tries to lift the wheels off the track. The GWR 28xx runs very well, but sounds like it is crushing rocks, even through 1st radius points; which I think is impressive for an 8-coupled locomotive. As I've said before, the loco-drive Dapol Westcountry will be an interesting and significant model. I've also got a Dapol 14xx, 45xx and had a Southern 0-4-4T, which could give Hornby's "Smokey Joe" a run for it's money in being the fastest thing on rails. None of them would run slowly and the 14xx could be used to test the sheer strength of rice pudding skin. In all fairness the 0-4-4T was a rescue project, bought cheap as a non-runner and I was pleased to get it working at all. I've not had a problem with any of my Dapol pannier tanks (I've got four or five) but I know my experience is not shared by everyone. In fairness, I've had a Graham Farish LMS Black 5, that also dropped a screw and had to go back to the factory for a repair. It also needed careful lubrication otherwise the wheels would lock up and get pushed along by the tender-drive. I also had a GF 3MT tank that I returned because it had a wonky wheel and limped down the track. I rejected another 3MT before buying it because it only ran backwards. I did get lucky on my third example, which seems very nice. If you can find them; I'd recommend the Graham Farish 5MT; Coronation; or GWR Castle (the modern ones, not the old Poole-type). I'd also recommend the GF Thompson, Hawksworth and Mk1 coaches, but they aren't cheap.
For goodness sake, Sam. You have been in this game way way long enough to know that N is not a scale. It is a GAUGE. You KNOW that N stands for NINE mm, the GAUGE of the track. You also know that the definition of SCALE is a numeric ratio. The scale used for N Gauge is normally between 1:148 and 1:160, depending on manufacturer and nationality. But the GAUGE remains at NINE mm. As one of the most effective influencers in the country, you have almost a public duty to please desist from constantly disseminating information that, at best, confuses your viewers and, at worst, actually perpetuates MISinformation. ie false information. In all other respects, you do such a genuinely excellent job that this anomaly stands out like a sore thumb! It's an "insane" bad habit, please break it. 😀
I don't know how many are reading the comments two months later, but does the chassis have electrical pickup capacity on the third driver...swapping it out with a non traction axel to improve electric pickup?
I'm still on my impression that the problem you met with the Dapol Britannia is the tight radius of your curves. Mine runs fine on 280mm curves as a minimum. Same as my 9F, which does not prevent me from gambling with the Hornby OO model (I won twice !). Well, seems all the Dapol steam engines have the same problem : circonvoluted mechanisms. My 9F also have one of those ##### driveshafts, and useless gears galore. And my electric toothbrush is less noisy than this engine. Dapol would have to retool their chassis someday for this category of engines. This A4 is just acceptable by my standards. By the way, I have in N scale a class 22 and a class 35 by Dapol, plus a class 122, and they runs fine. Maybe something to test for you someday ? About Dapol, I can guess we won't be waiting a long time for your review of the Hawthorn Leslie in OO... Mine has been ordered yesterday.
29:49~29:51- Kamikaze! Boom! Coaches: Oi! We're passenger cars, not trucks! 😠 Have to admit, the only major flaw on n gauge models would be poor coupling up.
Good review! I haven’t been too impressed by Dapol’s N Stuff going off you and others reviews, maybe try more Graham Farish (aka Bachmann)? Sonic Models just released a N Gauge Large Prairie as well!!
Hi Sam, yes a good looking model. I had a few Dapol models a while ago, and they were ok, a bit noisy, like Graham Farish. I had a Q1 but cannot remember which manufacturer. That was a good model and not noisy. N gauge are not cheap, and they tend to justify the price by saying that they have improved the detail, but of course they haven’t. I like the A4’s but they don’t seem to run well in N gauge for long. Quite a few tend to end up as static models. Try GF , the newer models are more stable, but expensive.
I find it incredibly sad that the Britania and this A4 have live trailing trucks (in N-scale) but Hornby ones are often static with unflanged wheels on OO scale. Great review, thanks Sam! I do know that Hornby goes for looks with the static truck, but it still drives me crazy.
Hello Sam. I’m a model railway beginner and have loved the hobby with my grandad since I was four ( I am now thirteen). Please could you recommend any starter sets for me and where to get them. Auctions giveaways etc Thanks and loving the vids keep it up🚂🚈🚅🚄🚝
When you show the website with the silver livery version (Silver King) you comment that you believe it's the exact same model. It is, mostly, but there are two differences. Silver King has side valences (you probably noticed that) and it does not have valve gear modelled - not even the eccentric crank/rod. It just has the coupling/connecting rods. I assume it's because there isn't enough clearance with the valences.
As usual, an excellent and very informative review. The standout abomination is the appalling fore and aft orientation of the trailing pony truck! Once seen, you simply cannot unsee it. Also unignorable is the rather poor coupling rod representation and then that seriously misbehaving rear coupler to the coaches. It might have been interesting to pull off the loco body to evaluate the feasibility of inserting the heaviest weight that might be persuaded to fit inside it. This could transform the smooth running, electrical pick-up AND drawbar pulling power, which is why this crude but SO effective improvementis so often utilized in Continental models which generally perform very well indeed.
I'm in New Zealand and would like to buy some British outline n-guage. Could anyone on here recommend a good on-line retailer please? Graham Farish is super expensive if bought from model shops in NZ, and other brands of British n Guage are almost non existant
Sam, best solution is all wheel drive. Drive rods have no bearings. When you have single wheel drive, you can see drive wheel move then when slack of drive rods taken up, other wheels catch up. I have seen some locos with drive rods not horizontal. Dapols latest design with all shafts quarter and driven best solution.
Hey Sam, you should check out one of the Rivarossi 3-truck Heisler locos. They are very unique-looking and cool American logging railroad engines with an interesting drivetrain that looks really good while running.
I find Dapol locomotives are a bit of a lottery as to if or not you get a really good one. I have a Brit which is no problem. Dapol advertise their drive mechanism as Super Creep. You appear to have a good one in that respect so fit the Eezy Shunt couplings, the ones with the springs, to the tender and the first coach and with a decent rake of coaches you should be able to stop just short of the train and then ease up and couple without the coaches moving. Very prototypical and impressive. The wires between loco and tender are a weak point . A spare pair is supplied. The Bulleid light pacifics when they finally arrive wil lhave the motor in the loco. Hopefully they will be a success and Dapol will consider re-tooling previous tender locos: The spring on the coupling sometimes comes off. A spare is supplied but it is useful to know a watchmaker to put it on for you!
I agree with the tender driven locos that Dapol produces, I won't buy them. Even if the performance was good I dont like the look of it, just my opinion though
The problems both your N locos have is in the trailing single axle bogie. It is too light. I have a SP cab forward in Ho with a single axle bogie which cannot go backwards as this bogie derails until load was added. This problem increases with any drag in its sliding pivot a single axle does not easily steer itself when pushed if it is too light or unloaded in model form. In real life the bogies front and back, take some of the locomotives weight through a bearing surface.
I have really wanted one of these for years, but being a Dapol steam engine I’ve got my doubts about it so I’ll be watching this Boeing beaded eyes before making my mind up on a silver version of this steam engine.
Thank for a nice N scale review. It's actually interesting that British N scale is not thaaaaat much smaller than TT scale ... Actually about some technical details, I would rather disagree: I do think N scale models need traction tires ... it really helps a lot if you want to manage grades! I also think it's better to have gears driving more than one axle ... it really increases the longevity of the whole thing. N scale coupling rods are tiny and tolerances are never as tight as they should be in a perfect world ...
1:05: Trust me, I’m from the US where these model scale trains are popular and I have seen some model trains that cost over $800 (over £630), so I feel that you got it for an incredible price. Btw amazing vids 😁😁😁
I can't get over how awful the rear ("Cartazzi") pony truck looks, hanging down at such an angle when it should basically be horizontal. And the noise from, presumably, all those gears. I was into N gauge about 25 years ago, and I had quieter, smoother tender locos from Graham Farish all those years ago. Nowhere near as much body detail in those days, but I had a GWR Hall class that could pull anything and didn't need traction tyres.
If it really IS the gears responsible for the excessive noise, then they are very poor quality gears and/or poorly lubricated. A suitable grease is best - not oil. However, although I cannot say for sure, in this case it is probable that the motor is (also) contributing to the noise level. Some motors are raucous little brutes.
My small N Gauge collection isn't Dapol, it's Graham Farish, so I wouldn't know. Basically, my Graham Farish collection consists of a GWR Large Prairie Tank Engine and King Richard 2nd, two open wagons and closed vans (thanks to Alfie for sending them to me), a GWR Toad Van, three Chocolate & Cream Mk. 1 coaches, a Pullman carriage and a Union Pacific Railroad Caboose. They won't be tested till November, as you know, and I'm nervous about the first test run. Any advice?
I don’t understand your reviews sometimes. In the same sentence you said the A4 was still coming off the track and then you said you rate it highly. Any loco that consistently comes off properly laid track is rubbish. especially for that criminal price.
He only gives a performance grade after running in. He says 15min into the running in session it stopped detailing and did not for the rest of the review, therefore in his eyes once it’s run in it’s a good performer
Hi Sam! Great to see you doing more N gauge! I don't think anyone in N gauge likes these tender driven locos, as they're notoriously unreliable! I'm also surprised it went over the S curve in the setrack points crossover, as that's a particularly tricky maneuver for a such a long loco with those large fixed wheels! I've got one of Dapol's new A4's on pre-order, but I'm not sure what tooling it uses - hopefully something significantly newer than from 2012! Keep the N gauge stuff coming! It's always interesting to get a perspective from someone who's predominantly modelled in OO! All the best, Ian.
Interesting! Boy has N gauge improved 😮 To anyone of my generation - my mates had Grafar, Minitrix and Lima N - this os outstanding. I’d even say you were a bit harsh. Try a 1970’s Grafar Hall or 94XX (they were barely use able) and then come back to your Dapol models. There really is no comparison !
For God sake don't mention Lima N; awful stuff. All scale dimensions wrong, ran like a bag of bolts, if you could get them running it was usually about 200mph. Utter crap!!!
I understood that one of the reasons for the a4's efficiency was internal, streamlining of the steam pipes, improving the flow of steam through the engine. Can anyone confirm?
Yes, Gresley is well documented as having been strongly infuenced by André Chapelon in this respect. Gresley did a much better job on the external streamlining though!
That is accurate, there should be no painted strip on the firebox banding. I have to agree Sam's example looks awful, too many glue marks and wonky parts. However it's possible to get a good example, my 60029 Woodcock has no cosmetic imperfections at all.
Yes you most certainly can! Pretty much all Continental models manage this very well, by ensuring substantial weight over the driving wheels and not elsewhere. Heavy locos are probably THE most fundamental requirements for smooth operation - in every respect. Light locos are lousy.
Very strange indeed that they would put the motor in the tender. Why didn't they copy KATO's design for an n-scale loco and use a heavy die-cast chasis which incorporates the motor and all necessary gears. Also, they could have used the actual coupling rods to transfer power to all the wheels. Isn't that what they are meant for. Please get with the program Dapol.
Coupling rod drive is not good in smaller scales and is particularly poor in N GAUGE. Scaling down in 3D reality has a hugely negative effect on strength and thus durability of both rods and pins. Gear driving all axles is MUCH more robust and VERY significantly more reliable.
@@John-Tropi I agree that gear drive is more robust. I have some Kato n-scale trains. Although they are diesel they show how the wheels can be driven by gears. Search Google Images for kato sd40-2 n scale chasis removed
The A4 from Dapol is decent which is all I can say Sam. I rather prefer the Hornby 00 gauge models of the A4s because they are better quality models. By the way, do you plan to review a redesigned A4 from Hornby at any time Sam?
I have long since given up with Dapol. They are incapable of producing a functional n gauge steam locomotive. You are much better off with an old minitrix A4. Its reliable, quiet and easy to service.
