Quick Correction: At 05:22. The Sacred Realm transformed into the Dark World when ganondorf touched the Triforce, not when he was sealed inside. I'm going to save yourselves from harm by not making this a drinking game where you take a shot everytime I say the word "sage". Stay safe everyone ;). And have a great rest of your weekend!
@@lapetitefee - I unsubscribed from one such theorist specifically because I couldn't stand the way he spoke (frequent monotone), and also his bad grammar. I wonder whether that was the same theorist as you...
The term sage might not be important, which would explain why there is so much inconstancy. Any word to describe them like wizards, magicians, or helpers. It seems to me that Sages are just certain people with special powers who help the hero and the princess. Following that line of thought, what if the Champions in BotW were the equivalent of sages? They do fill the role of helping Link and Zelda fight Ganon. Revali's diary says piloting a Divine Beast requires a sacred power in one's soul. If that's the case, then maybe the "sages" in BotW2 would be the New Champions, Yunobo, Sidon, Riju, and Teba.
I think they were very specific wirh terminology, personally! But this is an interesting take. I think they specifically named them champions instead of sages because they have a plan for the sages in the sequel when Ganondorf is involved, since he wasn't specifically with calamity Ganon
In terms of ending Demise's Curse, I really like the theory that it's tied to his hatred, and ends if he mellows out. After all, his powers are tied to malice, and he specifies that it is his "hatred" which shall chase after Link and Zelda. Think about it; in the adult timeline Ganondorf had ages to hang out and ponder after Hyrule flooded. He started a life (of piracy), got a house, and contemplated the sinking of Hyrule and why he lusted after power. He finds the new Zelda was living a life of piracy, just like him. He finds some kid cosplaying as the ancient hero, but who isn't even a true reincarnation. He's still a bad dude, but he has no more hatred for Link and Zelda - heck, he's even angry *for* them that the gods would sink their homeland! And in all of that, he never turns into the dark beast, Ganon. He is a mighty Gerudo warrior, and a powerful warlock, but he's no demon. And after he's defeated, he never shows up in the adult timeline again; instead he's replaced by other demons, lesser demons there to fill the void Demise left behind. In BotW, things are different. Ganondorf has had plenty of time to himself, but he wasn't left to his own devices. Instead he was stabbed, sealed, and locked in place for centuries. No life, no freedom; it's a thousand times worse than being locked away in the Realm of Twilight. So instead of mellowing out, he's been *stewing* in his own hatred. His malice has overflowed, and become more powerful than any incarnation's malice seen since. So the only way to permanently end Demise's curse is to somehow end Ganondorf's hatred. Killing him won't do it - he'll just be revived or reincarnated, just like his other deaths.
It would indeed be interesting if Nintendo would in some way humanize Ganondorf again, like they did in The Windwaker. Instead of just a generic "Im evil because that is my role" type of badguy.
Except in Wildwater he was still evil. Skyward sword wasn't first game but it is first in timeline, so we didn't know of demise or malice till long after Wind waker. And there is only one scenario in which gannondorf can ever go good. Otherwise no matter how much you humanize him, he will always be lawful or chaotic evil and its never justifiable. The only way he'd be good is if demise and malice were gone. Why? Because gannondorf is like scar from lion king, always lusting for power. Scar had evil potential long before cobra toxin. Gannon is same. Now if malice didn't infect him maybe gannondorf has free will, but what if he was too tied to demise? You'd have to have demise perma gone also. And I know theres many itteration of gannondorf, and yea, the ear thing. And no i never said triforce of power made him evil. Din was goddess of power, shes not and never was evil. Although if gannondorf didn't like goddesses I'd not blame him, they are hands off and allow too much
My brother and I always wondered about what would happen if Ganon was born at the same time as Link and Zelda, if he got a chance meeting with them at a younger age. If he never had Kotake and Koume raising him in OoT to be evil incarnate. Just like the hero of the spirit can awaken at any time, I wonder if the spirit of darkness can too. That Gandondorf had the chance to be just a regular guy at some point in a timeline, yet other factors dragged him into his ill fated destiny.
@@tartanbunny7466 I'm always gonna think about the cut content for the Majora's Mask HD remake, where Ganondorf ran the fishing hole. The dreams that could have been, man...
I strongly agree with your theory here. However, there is one major point that say that it won't be so easy: Ganny-boy is kinda forever sealed in stone by the Master Sword itself after WW, so, he could not return at all. Still, in the next games of that timeline, a new evil of similar characteristics is born. That shows that: 1. The curse will continue with other beings if Ganondorf is no longer able to continue the cycle, and: 2. The curse does not depend on Ganon: even if he is cured from the hatred, it will find another way to manifestate. So, while in theory Ganondorf can be separated from the curse of hatred, "healed" from it if you may, it will just bring life to a new entity.
Those Shikeah monks should go on America's got Talent, or at the very least release an album titled something like: The Sheikah Monks and The Couple Thousand Year Wait. Top 100 greatest songs to sing while you wait for Link to finally get around to your trials. Coming soon!
I have a theory. Maybe the sages help awaken Zelda’s sealing power. She lost it at the end of Botw so maybe they can help her learn how to kill Ganondorf with her power.
It was never said that she lost her powers. She said they dwindled. Which is like being exhausted after a big workout, you don't have any strength left but, over time, you'll be back to full strength.
But why though. Depowering Zelda in this way is as pointless as Romcom sequels being reliant of the couple now fighting OR no longer together then rehashing the first movie’s storyline. It’d be as pointless as randomly damseling her. Zelda’s powerful. She should STAY powerful. Explore her skillset and add in new ones. Let her invent things and craft and study. Sky’s the limit
Dude you're the best. I love the humor that you used in this video. And extremely informative as well. Subscribed, if you keep this up you could be huge. Definitely a fan!
The 8 Heroines Statues in the gerudo desert by direction are: * W: Nabooru * NW: Rauru * N: Zelda * NE: Darunia * E: Saria * SE: Impa * S: Ruto * SW: Ganondorf You can tell by their symbols. Darunia, for example, has 2 white dots on his cheeks. The symbols of each statue show simplified representations of each sage's appearance.
Also each cardinal direction aligns with that sage. Nabooru, in the West, is Satori "legends say it is the spirit of a sage that died on the lands it now protects." Nabooru is the only sage in OoT who died.
@@MaddesG1 Ganondorf, the 8th Sage, is positioned in the Southwest because he is a Gerudo male. Gerudo Town in the SW represents him. Nabooru's just North of that, represented by The Lord of the Mountain, whose origin is a sage that died: a description that fits only Nabooru.
Thats a very interesting discovery that you made there but i dont think the 8th sage is ganondorf that just dosnt make sense to me maybe the 8th heroine is some outside force that helped them , maybe link maybe midna our someone else
It was really nostalgic seeing the Sheika Munk in the "Trail of the Sword" having the same hand poses like in Ocarina of Time Maybe they'll be another reference in BOTW 2?
In Creating a Champion it shows that the rocks surrounding the pedestal of the Master Sword have a symbolic meaning. The 3 closest represent Din, Nayru and Farore while the 6 outer represent a Hylian, Goron, Gerudo, Kokiri, Zora and Sheikah, so most likely the sages from OoT. (It's on page 227) I happened to be on that exact page while watching the video. I just found it interesting. Perhaps the Great Deku Tree could possibly represent Zelda in someway? He's a deity and Zelda carries the blood of Hylia, also a deity.
1:55 Didn’t the heroes of the four sword (FS, FSA, and technically MC) all have the same shield? And in TWW, Link’s grandma says that the shield (which looks exactly alike the previously mentioned shield) is a family heirloom? Also I agree, ST and TWW/PH Links are probably related.
I would argue that “wise man” wasn't exactly a mistranslation of “sage,” since “sage” basically means “wise person.” The localizers simply decided to call them wise men since all the sages in LttP were men. Then they had to double back on that, when OoT introduced female sages (not to mention sages with individuality). It wasn't really a mistranslation, but perhaps a shortsighted localization choice. Hmm. Did they ever change it to “sages” in any rereleases of LttP? It would make sense, considering the appearance of sages in LBW, LttP's direct sequel...
About that Satori Mountain Sage thing, taken from the Zelda Wiki: The Satori Mountain probably named after Satori, the other name of the Lord of the Mountain, may be an homage to the late Nintendo President, Satoru Iwata. The mountain is first mentioned by Botrick along with the Lord. In an interview[1], director Hidemaro Fujibayashi said: "When Iwata passed away, there moments we'd come with an idea which we'd be excited to talk to Iwata about. Then we'd remember he was no longer here... The sadness runs deep. This is approaching spiritual talk, but we had the sense he was watching over our work. That became a source of inspiration. A drive for us to improve, and be better." Presumably Satori being the reincarnation of a sage is a homage to Iwata's role as company president and his involvement in the development of various Zelda titles.
Even if there wasn't a concise answer in the end, it was a very interesting video to watch and a good summary of the sages' roles in the games! Great work!
This was a great video! I love your explanation. The only thing I have to say about it is the part about Link in the beginning. I firmly believe Link is the same spirit of the hero in Skyward sword. You are right, he doesn't have to be related to any other Link but he is the same spirit reborn every time. There is a reason he always looks the same. He is the same hero. Just in another body that mirrors his soul. I also believe the same about Zelda. Her bloodline is that of Hylia with her magic but i believe when evil rises, Hylia's soul, just like Links soul, is forced to reincarnate. The body she is born into has the true power of Hylia. The curse of Demise is what it is. Its not a curse if the original Link and Hylia are not reincarnated in a cycle with no end.
I don't mind "retcon" with the Zelda timeline. I feel like the title of the series: "The Legend" lends itself to retconning within reason. with each new game, it's like we're uncovering another scroll, another telling of the events that changes our understanding of what happened. Legends are not infallible. They are stories passed down for generations and details can be changed or lost. It's the Legend of Zelda, not the History of Zelda. :)
5:04 I quite have a problem with this, the Imprisoning War was a *completely* different event! Even *if* we follow the books, it's long after with a new set of Hylian Sages! The Sages of the Imprisoning War are definitely not related with the Ocarina of Time Sages by much. You don't wanna tell me that Saria had a child, right? Or that Darunia could somehow have an Hylian child... Otherwise it's a neat video!
Woohoo my baby Spirit Tracks has been mentioned in a video! It seems like both of my favorites (Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass) rarely get mentioned. Edit: I’ve watched more of the vid and that’s awesome- both of my babies were mentioned! And not just for a split second either!
Monster Maze mentions that aside from the other Champions in BotW, Link does not have a specific skill/magic like the others, however this assumption is incorrect. Link DOES have a specific (and slightly magical) skill of slowing down his own perception of time while he takes aim with his bow and arrows, or to perform a Flurry Rush on an enemy when he executes a Perfect Dodge!
How do you break the curse from the beginning of time? Simple, you're gonna need the Hero of Time. Our boi deserves a second chance; a chance to redeem himself, find his friend, and be with his princess. If my theory about botw2 is right, then we just may see him again.
Your description of how Zelda works in the franchise is wrong. It's basically the same thing as Link except her reincarnation always seems to be from the royal family, while Link can come from any Hylian family.
This specific topic is very very tricky because of how inconsistent it is. I can't really add anything more because you've already covered all the bases, so I'm just going to put in my two cents. I personally go for the "spirit of the sages" thing. I know in games like LBW where the sages are supposed to be descendants of the maidens and by extension the prior sages, it's just flat out supposed to be the next generation in a family tree but we've got a Zora and a Goron(?) looking guy as sages? It's a big headache. When TP came out I was extremely confused as to why the sages were the way they were. WW had no issue depicting them in the chamber of the Master Sword so I never understood the drastic departure, and I'm still unsure of what exactly is going on in that game. If it's the Ocarina sages, are they supposed to be executing Ganon? Is this a later rebirth of Ganon? I thought he was the same as the one from OoT. Side rant aside, those specific sages looking nothing like before when the WW stained glass ones are just flat out them is confusing. Medli and Makar being actual descendants can work out, but just as easily being next in line to inherit the spirit of the sages does too. OoT Link's spirit still existing in the world at the same time as TP Link proves that two instances of the same spirit is possible (if we apply this knowledge to different timelines, which is rather sketchy but hey, tough subject). This also works out with Sahasrahla and the other fella being alive while the maidens who are technically the next sages are as well. I wanna believe that "descendants" is a term referring to the next generation of sages who inherit that spirit of a sage. The most obvious for this is the OoT sages having to be "awakened" as sages. The game mentions something about them being unable to hear the call for them to enter the temples and take their role as sages. In this case I don't see it working as anything but a reincarnation / spiritual rebirth thing. My one biggest gripe about all the sage retcons is that we don't get to meet a bunch of quirky and badass sages in Skyward Sword to forge the Master Sword. I liked it being the babby goddess sword, but the original story was more fun than "go collect 3 maguffins to make story move." Big missed opportunity.
I think the Sages are LONG forgotten. Different team,Different people. It's like asking if Wart will ever appear again. It's like asking if Nintendo will ever make 8 track cassettes.
you are spreading confusion -- your explanation crosses into the multiverse doesn't it ... so gods/sages are not consistent in different universes... you should analyze the same universe sages and keep it straight. Nintendo doesn't make silly mistakes like that.
I would imagine that, rather than the blood of the goddess vanishing if a Princess Zelda dies without children, another branch of the original Zelda's bloodline would "awaken" and the next living female relative of the original Zelda would have the goddess blood. I can't imagine none of Zelda's bloodline ever had multiple children.
I think the champions are pretty obviously BotW's sages. You see in both Yunobo and Riju that their powers are passed through bloodline, which aLttP established is a sage thing and every instance since then has made the sages descendants of other ones.
15:33 Breaking Demises curse would be rather easily accomplished with a Triforce wish. The thing is none of the characters alive/present currently even have a lick of a clue that it exists. They would need to precisely wish for the undoing of the curse of the demon king but how will they do that when none of them know that there *is* a curse in the first place ?
When you think about it the only way to break the curse is to let ganon win because demises curse cant hount the bloodline of the godess if the bloodline dies out but i dont know if the curse will continue if the spirit of the hero still exists so its really up to interpretation and there is probably no real way to stop the curse completly Side note : (dont know if any one else thought about talked about this but im shure im not the first to say this )maybe the hand keeps ganon from dying so he cant reincarnate, the royal family probably tried to keep him from coming back and tried to break the curse that way, what ultimatly failed because ganon just send out his malice in form of calamity ganon to terorise hyrule once again when he himself couldnt
Once again a great vid Don! Keep doing you, every video is a banger! Glad to see fellow Dutchies thrive on YT! Complimenten voor de insane editing skills en je spreekt echt schandalig goed Engels ;)
While it would be a very cool thing to see all of the sages from Ocarina of time reborn in BOTW2, I feel like ocarina of time has way too many callbacks because of its nature that set up the different timelines. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but I think BOTW was a way for them to do away with the timelines.
Also: on link being the champion with no power, I’d maybe argue the way time slows down when you do a perfect dodge(side hop/backflip) could be a power. Along with time slowing down when aiming with a bow mid-air :D
One fact to consider is that supposedly Zelda was the originally scripted to be the hero of the story. Hylia crafted the hero's sword, so... Maybe there is something there?
7:55 huh a different world you say? This continuity doesn’t work you say? Maybe that’s cause the creators never planned a continued timeline in the first place! These games we’re supposed to be separate from each other aside for moments they literally tell you “this game came after that” like in Oot time to MM to WW! I’m cool with theorizing and lore but only when the lore is planned! The Zelda community demanded a Zelda timeline onto the creators until they said fuck it and gave you what you wanted. A garbage explanation for something that wasn’t meant to be! Then they said fuck it again and made BOTW the merging of all 3 timelines because they were tired of having to explain everything! No more timelines! No more explaining crap that wasn’t meant to be! Down with the Zelda timeline! Imagine Disney trying to claim that they were apart of the Pixar timeline since the beginning. That’s what I hear every time someone brings up the botched Zelda timeline.
I personally hope that BotW2 has us somehow split Demise's curse from Gannondorf, but not kill Ganon or get rid of the curse, but instead the curse manifests into a literal physical demon somewhat resembling Demise himself. This would allow us to explore how the triforce of Power could be integrated into future stories as we already know how Courage and Wisdom usually helps,... and really that's what I really wish to see, not necessarily a Ganon redemption, but how the character Ganondorf and the Triforce of Power could be used in a story that allows him to be on the same side as Hylia,... Could you imagine a final boss against a Demise-like manifestation of the curse, and we actually have the complete Triforce co-operating 'Courage and Wisdom has always fought against Power, never with Power'
I THINK I KNOW HOW TO BREAK DEMISE'S CURSE, IT IS SIMPLE HIS RAGE IS REBORN IN TO GANON THE KING of demons thrue the grotos so if you remove the grotos which would be sad but without them GANON will never return which means the curse will be rather neutralized or broken ether way it works.
Would they be notable Sages like the ones from OoT, the no-name ones from TP, or brand new ones similar A Link Between Worlds, although the descendant of one of the original Sages, possibly Impa, was in LttP and still alive by the time of ALBW
It's informative to consider the real-world inspirations for the seven sages, which are most likely the Saptarishi (literally, "Seven Sages") of Hinduism, who are said to reincarnate in each manvantara (age of being). The concept of seven wise persons in a group also occurs in the Sapta matrika (seven mothers) again of Hinduism, the Apkallu (Wise/Sages) of Babylon, and the Seven Lucky Gods of Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism.
Now hold on a good goddamn…. I was CERTAIN that Kaepora Gaebora was an incarnation of Gaepora from Skyward Sword? On account of the fact that they look the same and have nearly the same name? How is that not the case? I didn’t even question it as a “possibility” it just seemed obvious.
Possibly if Zelda did *ahem* "get" with the priest. (Now that I think of it, he's a very sinister looking dude) if she a male and female child, the Hylia spirit, bloodline, shenanigans would probably go to the female child. Plus reincarnation is weird in these games. Seriously, a fat walrus man returning as an owl?
@6:38 With regard to the races point, Rosso is also confirmed Hylian despite wearing Goron stuff. Also in DT its not unlikely that Zelda had relations with a Shiekah, (given her living with them after fall of hyrule castle) making Impa a possible descendant as well.
I'd argue that the major incarnations of characters like Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are appearance-locked. Essentially each Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf have to look the same due to fate and the cyclical nature of time in Hyrule...which would make sense, as most incarnations of Link look nearly identical same with Zelda, and with Ganondorf while we never saw FSA Ganondorf, he is still a male gerudo, so to me I dont see any reason to assume they can change. Likewise with Zelda, not every girl in the royal family is called Zelda, that's only a rule after the backstory of Adventure of Link which happens after A Link Between Worlds, so I would argue that again like the appearances of the main three, the only princesses called Zelda are actual incarnations of Zelda...until the backstory of AoL where there can be real Zeldas and just random princesses named Zelda, before that though the princesses could ve called anything.
I don't think they entirely left out of BOTW if because the word "champion" to sounds like "sage" in this context with the "Divine Beasts" being named after the pilot or Sages/Champion who operated it in which case Hestu was a sage as well not to mention Impa or any sheika tech lab director
I believe the curse of demise can be broken easily, but we don't want to say goodbye to Zelda. The curse involves the soul of a hero, he will return regardless. And the blood of the goddess. If the royal family stopped reproducing and died out... Wouldn't that fix the problem?
demise: there will be a powerful curse that shall afflict all those connected to the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero hylias spirit: no u the games: NONEXISTANT
I don't comment on a lot of stuff on RU-vid but that Maybelline Joke and the Africa Song was absolutely flawless comedy! I rewatched the Africa a few more times after finishing the video and it just kills me xD
3 ways to break the curse layed by Demise -make Ganondorf stop being a hateful little bitch -eugenics(?), aka killing the royals and thus breaking 1 of the requirements of the curse -wish for it to the triforce, if one of the characters actually learns about the curse somehow
Anything can happen. But I don't expect to see them. With the state of that world and how far they've seemingly been removed from having sages, I'd be surprised to stumble upon some. At the same time it could happen. Maybe they access the sacred realm and boom sages are there. I don't know if they need sages in the next game. Might be best to keep the focus on Link and Zelda. But we'll see what they do. No complaints from me either way.
I hope they give Ganondorf some justice, like they did in Wind Waker. Understanding why he did what he did really changed how I viewed him as a villain, you can sympathize with him and you almost felt sorry for him and the gerudo. I honestly expected the ending in wind waker to go differently. I fully thought Ganondorf would wish for his people and his desert to change and prosper, not out of anger, but because he just wanted more for them.
I personally think Yunobo, Riju, Sidon, Teba, Paya and one of the korok’s will be the new six sages and have to seal away the ganondorf that is under the castle
Indeed. The narrative of this video changed a lot while writing. It was supposed to BotW only, with only a minot mention of past sages. But... I just didn't have enough to write about, since we know so little about the sequel :(
