[William Lane Craig] Q&A - What is hell? Can a good God be compatible with the reality of hell?

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Q&A from the 2013 Apologetics Canada Conference. To learn more about Apologetics Canada and to purchase the full DVD: www.apologeticscanadaconference.com
Conference DVD includes:
Professional video of the 4 main sessions
Mp3 audio of the 14 breakout sessions (does not include Logos training)
Mp3 audio from Dr. Craig's lecture at UBC and to TWU faculty
6 Think For A Minute videos
Think For A Minute Devotional
Think For A Minute Discussion Questions / Recommended Resources
Dr. Craig's PowerPoint / pdf notes

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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 472

@LaurenFrancesHair 9 лет назад

please don"t ever retire wlc!

@oscarcoronel3021 5 лет назад

He cannot retire, this race is until Christ

@VCityglobal 5 лет назад

He’s a Gem! An icon

@RobotMowerTricks 10 лет назад

He made a mistake in his Bible reference. No one is perfect! 2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

@neosoontoretro 10 лет назад

What are you talking about? How does no one being perfect negate the possibility of Hell? That doesn't make any sense.

@DruPetty42 6 лет назад

I don't think he said that anyone was perfect except God.

@Jamie-Russell-CME 6 лет назад

Yes, eternal destruction . They will be raised and judged then receive the second death, which is their destruction which excludes any chance of life again. They are destroyed and that consequence is eternal. How does a just God send people to heaven? Calvary. A just God destroys the wicked. And that is an everlasting destruction. And an exclusion from the Resurrection and the Life. And His Light is the light of men.

@steliosmitr8245 5 лет назад

@@Jamie-Russell-CME what does that mean, so what would happen to the wicked?

@JTW3D 4 года назад

@@steliosmitr8245 they will be destroyed! Not to be alive again. Read John 3:16 also. The most popular bibleverse. It speaks about people being perished. They stop existing. Annihilated!

@lamginlenginsimte3283 4 года назад

The most satisfying and reasonable answer I've ever heard

@tydavis8979 11 лет назад

I have just discovered this man's work and I think I will be making him my special project for the next while.

@JV-jq4dt 3 года назад

The dilemma is not between Gods love and Gods justice, but between Gods mercy and Gods justice. 1 Corinthians 13:6: “love does not rejoice in iniquity”. This means that Gods love and Gods justice are on the same page. Mercy and justice however, are not on the same page, they create a dilemma.

@gmn545 11 лет назад

Punishments should be appropriated to the seriousness of the crime", however, who is Craig to assume "the denizens of hell continue to hate and reject God", given that for quite a large number of them, they only came to a knowledge of God upon death & judgment? Who is he to claim they couldn't have a change of heart, especially after serving a tormenting sentence in an abode like hell? I don't see how eternal imprisonment without a chance for parole (for lack of a better word) is loving.

@sniperontheroof123 8 лет назад

Doesn't "perfect justice" require that the punishment fit the crime? Why do people go to hell *forever* for sins and crimes that caused obviously finite harm? Additionally, isn't there an immense amount of moral luck from people who end up in hell because they sinned and then were struck down by natural disasters, as compared to those who sinned and survived long enough to repent/etc? Isn't god rolling the dice when someone people get struck by lightning but might have repented had they survived?

@obviouslyinvisible 8 лет назад

Hi +Will Allen, *1*. To answer your first question, please consider these possibilities: a. "[T]he rejection of Christ as Lord and Savior, being a rejection of God Himself, is a sin of infinite gravity and proportion and therefore plausibly does merit infinite punishment." b. The damned in hell accrue further punishment by continuing to sin. Read more: www.reasonablefaith.org/do-the-damned-in-hell-accrue-further-punishment *2*. Your second question is addressed here: "How can God condemn people who through no fault of their own never had the opportunity to receive Christ as their Savior? A person's salvation or damnation thus appears to be the result of historical and geographical accident, which is incompatible with an all-loving God. "This objection is, however, fallacious, because it assumes that those who have never heard about Christ are judged on the same basis as those who have. But the Bible says that the unreached will be judged on a quite different basis than those who have heard the gospel. God will judge the unreached on the basis of their response to His self-revelation in nature and conscience. The Bible says that from the created order alone, all persons can know that a Creator God exists and that God has implanted His moral law in the hearts of all persons so that they are held morally accountable to God (Rom. 1.20; 2.14-15). The Bible promises salvation to anyone who responds affirmatively to this self-revelation of God (Rom. 2.7). "Now this does not mean that they can be saved apart from Christ. Rather it means that the benefits of Christ's sacrifice can be applied to them without their conscious knowledge of Christ. They would be like people in the Old Testament before Jesus came who had no conscious knowledge of Christ but who were saved on the basis of his sacrifice through their response to the information that God had revealed to them. And, thus, salvation is truly available to all persons at all times. It all depends upon our free response." Read more: www.reasonablefaith.org/can-a-loving-god-send-people-to-hell-the-craig-bradley-debate God bless you!

@sniperontheroof123 8 лет назад

1. Doesn't Craig himself reject the possibility of an "actual infinity." This would include infinitely bad sin. Additionally, how could something that causes finite harm (e.g. one murder, one instance of adultery, etc.) be infinitely sinful? 2. The difference (in my example) isn't between those who have heard the gospel and those who haven't. The difference is between two otherwise identical people: Person A sins, repents, and goes to heaven. Person B sins, would have repented, but God struck him down before he could do so. Person B goes to hell. The only differentiating feature between person A and B is luck - they both have the exact same intent and would both have ended up in the same place based on their behavior alone. The only difference is God sent B to hell by killing him.

@obviouslyinvisible 8 лет назад

Will Allen 1. Craig acknowledges that infinity is not a number. Think of a number _x_, you can always think of a number _x_ + 1. That new number has a value, which is not infinity. The number line is boundless. God is boundless. Thus, it can be argued that a sin against God is boundless. 2. Craig says in my earlier post, "And, thus, salvation is truly available to all persons at all times" Are you saying that person A was saved, sins, loses salvation, repents and is then re-saved? Person B was saved, sins, loses salvation, does not have time to repent? Many theologians teach that a person cannot lose salvation. "If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." (Ro. 10:9 HCSB) "For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift- 9 not from works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9 HCSB)

@sniperontheroof123 8 лет назад

1. How does "sin against god is boundless" follow from "God is boundless?" Sin is still finite harm... 2. No...let me clarify: Person A sins, survives a Tsunami, and is then saved. Person B sins, dies in a Tsunami, but would have been saved had he survived. It seems like the only difference between B and A is the Tsunami, something completely out of their control, but B goes to hell anyways.

@obviouslyinvisible 8 лет назад

Will Allen, 1. Are you saying that sin always does finite harm? Here is a counter-example: 1.1 Suppose Adam had a perfect record of not sinning. 1.2. Then, one day Adam sinned. 1.3. Adam no longer has a perfect record. His prefect record has been ruined for eternity. 2. Before we discuss further persons A and B, the more important question is the following one: Are you saved?

@j919or 9 лет назад

Some people see the error of their ways and are grossed out by evil and ask GOD for rescue. GOD promptly complies at great expense to HIMSELF and this causes that some to be forgiven and forever inoculated against evil and in love with GOD which is total bliss forever. Others refuse to admit their evil and be grossed out by it and remain seeking someone to blame and substances to numb the misery

@americanexploring7440 10 лет назад

Hell is eternal death. The bible teaches that the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life.

@breatheeasily4013 5 лет назад

Where do we live eternal life? Is it in another place but earth?

@jeffreylin1491 11 лет назад

Continued from previous: "Even if God does allot a finite punishment for every sin, still, since the denizens of hell continue to hate and reject God, they continue to sin and so accrue to themselves more punishment, so that both sinning and the punishment go on forever. Alternatively, the sin of rejecting God Himself is a sin of infinite gravity and proportion and so plausibly merits an infinite punishment." Hope that helps!

@Dysnomiac1 11 лет назад

Yet it's still ambiguous as to why sins of a finite, earthly life warrant the punishment of an infinite afterlife.

@aquatix 11 лет назад

That is a bizarre notion; never-ending punishment for a finite crime. Goes to only suggest that man, when rejecting certain idiocies, is a moral exemplar compared to god.

@gmn545 11 лет назад

Considering how flexible people's emotions are - especially when faced with severe conditions - I've yet to encounter any person who fits the description of undying conviction (in this case, "would never freely choose to repent"). Keep in mind we're talking about ** eternity **. Do you realize what that means? You assert "Hell isn't for those whom God knew would have a change of heart later on", but I presume you're talking about during their earthly lives. What about in the afterlife?

@daviddemelo6835 10 лет назад

Hell is not a place of "punishment" but a mere exclusion of God by choice, that would ultimately lead to pain and suffering and all of that, because where God is not, there evil resides..

@xneutralgodx 10 лет назад

mt 25:46 It is eternal punishment~ Jesus Christ . It is not having eternal life/existence suffering in a lake of fire forever but rather the death penalty you will be left as ashes

@containeduniverse 9 лет назад

The ungodly will pretty much be reliving the carnal thoughts/actions they had over and over. They'll be full of grief from the fact that salvation was SO simple to obtain (follow only Him and His orders) and be left in a darkness unlike anything we can imagine with everything and everyone that was against the one who loved them (including satan). satan hates mankind and is envious of us having been given Earth.

@paultokjian7915 6 лет назад

Actually G-d would be everywhere. Including in hell. David spoke of this in the Psalms. There is another verse in the bible that speaks of satan and his angels being tormented in the lake of fire with the unbelievers in the presence of G-d.

@Jamie-Russell-CME 6 лет назад

Where God is not, there is no life "For I am the Resurrection and the Life." -the Word of God "You shall NOT surely die! Hath God said?" -the Father of Lies

@sandina2cents779 5 лет назад

I think a lot of people forget, or don't want to acknowledge that they are not alone in hell. There are a lot of demons that hate them that are there with them, and they can do anything to people that they want to without ceasing and I'm sure they do.

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

Let me answer that by what I think determines the gravity of a wrong because it applies to both God and humans. (It may take a couple replies. Sorry!) The gravity of a wrong is determined by the intrinsic value of the object against which it is committed. If human beings have intrinsic value, then their freedom actually matters in the objective sense and a wrong can be accounted for for the victim regardless of the experience of suffering.

@fanghur 11 лет назад

Infinite punishments for finite and trivial transgressions is the complete opposite of pure justice; it is pure injustice.

@maarnakhthehun 11 лет назад

Though I absolutely love Craig, I don't like the way many theologians today make God look like a good cop and a bad cop..one of them being loving and lenient, and the other wrathful and vindicative. I'd say God's justice flows from His Love, which isn't just another of God's attributes, but His very nature. And true Love requires Justice. So what I see on the cross is nothing else than God's fully expressed love.

@nicholaswhitson3225 7 лет назад

Let me turn the table on all the atheist on the question "why would a loving God send people to hell for eternity for only a finite time in earth?" How bout this... the SAME God who will send you to HEAVEN for eternity, although your time on earth is finite! None of us deserve to be in eternity in heaven, but God wants us to be in eternity with him. So yes hell exist, no God doesn't want you to go there, no God doesn't send you there. YOU SEND YOU THERE! By your free will which is a gift from God himself. So choose wisely my atheist friends...

@madambutterfly7513 5 лет назад

Nicholas Whitson - well said!!

@ΜάριοςΛοϊζίδης 5 лет назад

@Olumfemi Daniyaa this has nothing to do with free will. The first part of the verse shows clearly free will. The second shows the final conclusion and decision from God. God knows us and watches us and gives what is just. The verse could also be taken as the description of the mere incapability of people to understand and choose from the beginning.

@wechulipaul 4 года назад

This is ridiculous. I didn't ask for an eternity in heaven. When I die, I expect to remain dead. You have to do some sickening mental gymnastics to make your morality work.

@LiftingForLife 11 лет назад

Craig is a professional evidential apologetic, but he's a presuppositionalist at heart. He states in his book Reasonable Faith that "(...) the role of rational argumentation in knowing Christianity to be true is the role of a servant. A person knows Christianity is true because the Holy Spirit tells him it is true. And while argument and evidence can be used to support this conclusion they cannot legitimately overrule it."

@gmn545 11 лет назад

In terms of God being just, I can understand Hell as a temporal punishment in a 'lake of fire' that ends in annihilation. But the idea that immoral behavior and rebellion against God occuring over a tiny spark of time (in cosmological scale, a person's few decades of life out of 13.7 billion years is extremely tiny) being met with ** eternal ** torment is ... unjust, illogical, and simply unnecessary.

@danielboone8256 5 лет назад

I wonder if people die out after some time. If God is the source of life and they’re separated from God, how much linger can they live?

@russelldavis3796 4 года назад

Exactly right. Our "souls" (selves) are mortal. We only live in immortality if we accept Jesus and God's ability to make us immortal.

@Ryan-rh8rn 2 года назад

Beautifully explained 👏

@dajusta87 11 лет назад

I believe in God and he is loving. If you choose to reject Him, he accepts that. Therefore, when your body perishes, you will end up in a place where God does not exist. It's apart of his loving character to let you choose. You choose not to be with God.

@koldkilla124 10 лет назад

Craig asks how could a just god send all people to heaven? Well good point Craig, aside from the fact that an all powerful and JUST god would have created a better system than simply heaven and hell. Humans aren't just good or bad. Most of us are somewhere in between. I really find the level of deluded rationalization this man spews sad

@TheOldBeef 3 месяца назад

I don't believe in the idea of justice at all. If someone is inclined to do something that brings harm to me, I simply want to prevent them from being able to do so; if I had created them, I would rather reform them than punish them. Perhaps we have "free" will, but if we all were to start our lives over again we would all make the same exact decisions again, and believe the same exact things again - so essentially if people do indeed go to Hell for rejecting the Gospel or whatever, God is the one who set all of these things into motion. His creations were created for misery... which is incompatible with the idea of a "God of love."

@karinas.1320 4 года назад

"If god simply blinked at sin, he would not be perfectly just...every sin, every wrongdoing in the universe will receive its just deserts." Sorry but I refuse to accept the idea that I deserve to be punished for not believing in some invisible man in the sky who gave no tangible evidence of his existence. Or that that's on par with actions like murder or rape. I wish I believed in God and I've tried to but I just can't. I refuse to believe I deserve to suffer for this as it is not a decision I made.

@bethr8756 2 года назад

Who gave no tangible evidence of his existence!!!???? You've got to be kidding. How about the universe for starters???

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

So you're saying I can't have an opinion? Add censorship to moral bankruptcy. I do agree one should read up on the topics they are criticizing, but how does that refute my point? It's like you think your belief can't be criticized.

@devindaniels1379 6 лет назад

He never answers the question of "whether a good God is compatible with the reality of hell". He mentions that hell is compatible with justice, tried to reverse the question to compatibility of justice with heaven, and then answers his own question with Jesus crucified making heaven compatible with love and justice. However, he never mentions how hell is compatible with love (only with justice). So again, how is anyone eternally in hell if it isn't compatible with the full nature of God when having them in heaven (at some point) is?

@dajusta87 11 лет назад

Do you believe in punishment?

@lovejoypeaceforever 5 лет назад

"WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH" ... IT'S NOT DIFFICULT... PRAISE JESUS FOR ELECTING ME TO LOVE AND WORSHIPPING HIM :D

@m-zap1332 10 лет назад

I like that he turned it around. Should a just God let everyone into heaven? Shall the guilty go unpunished? Should Hitler and Stalin be let into heaven despite killing millions of people? Should anyone of us be let into heaven despite the fact that we sin and do evil all throughout our lives? Of course not, we are not worthy of going to heaven, we all deserve to be punished for denying our creator and disobeying Him. God is just and he's the ultimate judge, we are all guilty of various and multiple sins and since God is just, he must to punish us, but because he loves us he gives us a way out because he wants us to freely return to him so that we can live in his presence once again like he intended in the garden. This way out is the free gift of salvation through trusting in his son Jesus Christ who literally was on earth 2000 years ago and took our well-deserved punishment upon himself so that we could go free on that judgment day, but we must trust in him in order to be saved. If we deny him then he will deny us, so humble yourselves and repent.

@dragilxcom4176 9 лет назад

I'm not God, but if I'm a potter and created a bad pottery, any vengeance and judgment will ultimately reflect my own inability to create only good pottery. I'm sure God is perfect, I'm not sure why would He judge his own perfect creation.

@m-zap1332 9 лет назад

Gabrul Dooh No, it would just reflect that the freedom of will that you gave to the humans you created is being used to do bad things. God is responsible for the FACT of freedom, but humans are responsible for their ACTS of freedom. All the evil in the world is not caused by God but by the people who were given the ability to choose what to do (instead of being robots).

@dragilxcom4176 9 лет назад

Mapajas But the ACTS are foreknown and approved by God to be carried out by us. (Jeremiah 1:5). God the omniscience knows how each of us will end up before He even create us. So why the would be sinner still gets created? If it is a matter of free will which was given to us, is such ability to choose a faulty feature? It's kinda like in the movie Terminator, where Skynet is made self aware and able to go against its creator. The skynet creator was the imperfect human, and human make mistakes. But, how could God makes mistake by letting human to sin and still punish them? I believe in God, but I'm not sure hell is a place to torment soul eternally.

@m-zap1332 9 лет назад

Gabrul Dooh But evil is a necessary byproduct of free will and God must allow us to choose if we want to do the right thing and obey him or do things that he dislikes (evil). Those who choose to continue living in sin will disappear from this earth and those who have chosen to receive Jesus as the Lord and savior will live in harmony. One of the reasons why we have free will is so that we can choose to obey God or not. If we don't then we will cease to exist, if we obey him then we will be saved.

@dragilxcom4176 9 лет назад

Mapajas I think many Christians view of free will is short sighted in looking at the implications. Yes, freewill exist and it is the reality of our journey in life. But we must not forget that we are created by God who knew what our final choice will be. I agree that evil is necessary. In fact, good and evil are the consequences of having intelligent & knowledge. I already exercise my free will to choose God, but there are those who side with evil. The thing is, God already know what each of us will choose *before* He created us. It is just like if I'm about to put the dough in the oven to make bread & I realize it is 1 cup short of flour, I won't waste time baking it then throw it away because I know it will turn bad, right? So why God keep baking the would be bad bread? In the view that God is the most loving & righteous, I kinda think that: 1. Good can definitely exist without evil, but evil shines good, it contrast good very well. Evil is an expected role to be played by some, just like the role of Judas or anyone like him is necessary to Jesus salvation. 2. Unless there are better explanation, therefore the most loving God can't possibly take pleasure in tormenting soul in hell for eternity. I don't doubt God's motives of creating both human destinations, the elect and the doom.I'm sure it's all for good reasons. It is just a mystery to me. What is the point in having judgement?, hence the Hell concept as an eternal torment of punishment is rather unlikely to me. If as you pointed, they simply perish as in no longer exist, it then seems make more sense. They have done their necessary participation for the greater glory of God.

@hydroshocksunwell 11 лет назад

Besides your not looking for evidence and if it was given to you you'd find a way to discredit it. I seen a 13 page atheist web site that was discussing scientific evidence for God and virtually every single person said it would make no difference if He was proven they simply do not care. So why do this unless you juts have a vendetta against us?

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

Hmm. I don't quite agree. You are implying that you can reduce justice to a matter of pragmatism. But you can have a pragmatic society that rules out people's consent. (Say, a society ruled by a dictator where no one objects to the rule for the fear of death. It can sustain itself as long as people remain subservient.) I agree is that consent and freedom are important, but on what basis? If we can answer that, I think we can answer what determines the gravity of a wrong (crime). =)

@kisumudalahera 10 лет назад

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

@zekeman3580 11 лет назад

he misquoted scripture first thes vrse five doesnt say that . also jesus said hell is liquid sulfur not just seperation .. this is heresy teaching from craig

@samuelcallai4209 5 лет назад

"... where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:48b. This idea of hell being only a separation of God and goodness is just a way to soften it, making it seem less terrible than it actually is.

@rev.terrycase4127 5 лет назад

God did not take on human flesh. Jesus became flesh after He emptied Himself to make Himself of no reputation.

@DonJay777 11 лет назад

Are you referring to the statement you just made? Sounds correct...

@jimbrausky 6 лет назад

I FEEL SO SAD WHEN I SEE WILLIAM DEFENDING HELL. IS THE ONLY TIME HE DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL. lame explenations and no logical arguments or support at all. this is good to know Because for some reason even the smartest of people believe the unreliable, and try to support it. wow. to me is a good psychological subject to analyze. people that believe in hell are people that doesn't even use their brains. have you ever thought about it when your love one like mother or son or whomever you love goes through extreme pain even for just an hour or more, how sad and horrible that is? and how bad you feel and helpless. you don't want the person to ever go through that again. now you going to believe some eternal pain, like God will aloud such nameless atrocity to take place in his universe. come on!!!!!! hell is nonse. wake up folks. we are not puppets that need to believe other men ideas. people believe in hell just because they don't use their brain. darn Catholics are nuts they brought up that idea.

@lukebell4738 3 года назад

The doctrine of hell has been around long before the catholic church. You do realize Jesus himself speaks of hell right? What hell actually is is what is being debated, and if it is a place of torture, how can a loving God do such a thing?

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

I see. How then do you determine the gravity of a crime?

@terricox7440 Год назад

According to Christian teaching, kind, charitable, law-abiding people will be going to hell just because they don't believe in a god who doesn't show himself. Infinite punishment for a finite sin, and this man calls it justice. Sick!!!

@benjamineinarsson1541 11 лет назад

He is using intuitive logic and conversational tactic to convince people who are already prone to believing his ideas without further question, which is why he still parrots the Kalam when he pulls the string in his back. His premises are a combination of false and unknown and thusly his conclusions are unjustified. He has had these critiques given to him from both debaters and scientists but continues his trademark because it still sells. Honesty and truth are not his goals.

@frankwhelan1715 6 лет назад

Completly ignoring the description Jesus gives of hellfire, flames, knashing of teeth ect ect, and puts his own spin on it

@madambutterfly7513 5 лет назад

frank whelan - yep, because they don’t want to hear the truth even when it plainly says in the Bible fire & gnashing of teeth, hell will be more horrible than any human can imagine & by the same token, heaven will be wonderful beyond anyone’s imagination!! I choose Jesus, but billions of ppl don’t, theirs will be misery & torment behind description, unfortunately. I will pray for the lost souls but I thank God for my salvation🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️🙏❤️

@hexusziggurat 11 лет назад

"quotes the wrong BOOK" what wrong book? "makes up his own descriptions of Hell" He said "This is what I believe the ESSENCE of what hell is", WLC clearly says its HIS belief and he describes it as the "essence of what he thinks hell is". If you're going to squabble over particulars get something worthy of pointing out. You are also trying to compare a transitory punishment that MAN determines fit as compensation via a penance or penalty by MAN's standard, not God's standard.

@fanghur 11 лет назад

You're right and wrong. If god were proven to exist I would indeed acknowledge it, as would any intellectually honest person. But if it were the Christian god I could never worship or respect it, because by my standards Yahweh is a deceitful, sadistic, vengeful, spiteful, morally bankrupt monster with no conscience. And there IS no scientific evidence for god, much less your specific god. At most science could suggest deism or pantheism, not the logically impossible Christian god.

@hydroshocksunwell 11 лет назад

Then why are you complaining about the injustice if you dont even believe in it. In fact why do you guys always do that. Youll start with one thing and then venture off about how God does not exist, I dont understand you guys. The more I deal with you people the more i see a personal vendetta against Christianity fuel by hate Whats interesting is Jesus said that people would deny God and hate us for Believing in Him.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

If you're a Christian, and believe people have eternal souls, and according to your belief that God sends people to a place of eternal torment of some kind whether it be the literal fire and brimstone or otherwise then yes its infinite punishment. Thus it is by no means perfect justice as no crime is ever punished for an unlimited amount of time, they are judged by degree/offense and amount of times done. So an infinite punishment is unjust, unlawful, and cruel.

@benjamineinarsson1541 11 лет назад

He is, and he demonstrates it willingly. He admits that even if the ressurection of Jesus was demonstrated to be false he would still believe it because his faith takes president over the evidence. Which by definition is presuppositionalism. His arguments are also often only valid when including presuppositions not only about the specifics of his claims but also demonstrably poor presuppositions of the universe and how it operates. He preaches to the converted, deepening a delusion.

@benjamineinarsson1541 11 лет назад

Of course he does. W.L. Craig is a presuppositional apologetic, he sells what he gets away with to Christians who don't care enough to know better. He makes statements that suit his position regardless of if they are supported or not, you can look at his recent multiple attacks on Dawkins and Krauss' film without ever viewing it and the claims he makes are demonstrated to be completely false by showing the source material. He cares about selling, truth is not a virtue of this man.

@gmn545 11 лет назад

As to molina's middle knowledge, see "Philosophic Problems Of The Middle Knowledge Theory" (R . K. McGregor Wright). I also see coherence issues with "All-Loving" & "All-Just" being simultaneous, as love implies grace and mercy (in God's case, taken to an Omni-level), yet this necessitates a drop in the degree of 'justice' (otherwise, Ezek 18:20 couldn't be negated by Christ's death). I agree with you on those who freely choose to reject. But I'm talking about punishment for not being aware.

@gmn545 11 лет назад

I'm aware of Molina's middle knowledge: God not only knows both all the possibilities as well as how things would actually turn out, but he also knew how the free will would actually act under all possible circumstances. I find there to be some philosophical problems with it, but in any case, if 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:4 are really true, then I don't see how never-ending (think about that) punishment can be what a loving God would sentence anyone to, if they had a change of heart later on.

@MrBeefreetwo 11 лет назад

man wants to do what he THINKS many times, seems to be good but according to gods standards they are evil. yet man is still determined to do much of what is wrong according to those standards.god had to allow the potential for evil, otherwise we would be robots incapable of loving, which is the highest good an can only come from god. that's why god can judge an his judgement is true!! without god anything goes an in reality whatever man does eventually will show its true evil colors!!

@gmn545 11 лет назад

I read it. The problem I'm talking about is presuming that for all "lost" human beings, that they will never - for all eternity - have a change of heart. It has to be a case-by-case, not generalization or appeals to Isaiah 55:8. Fact is, some people are sincerely willing to accept God, once they have truly convincing reasons to do so. If that isn't provided, how can they be damned? For some, the only "gospel" they will hear is from (in Craig's view) false representatives (mormons, for example).

@aquatix 11 лет назад

You conflate belief in god with the answer about a just and all loving god. I stated rather clearly that an educated person would realize the speaker stepped around the question; I did not insinuate an educated person would not believe in god. The concept of god is a religious belief if this god contains certain characteristics. Lets be honest, when you say god, you specifically have a type of god in mind. How do you know morals come from god and what are some of these morals?

@jaymesmckenzie5592 11 лет назад

Morals don't come from religion they come from God. Where do morals come from in your opinion; time plus chance plus matter I suppose? I never argued God being an 'all loving without conditions' (this was your implication); in fact, God does have a condition, 'love Him and your neighbors more than yourself.' So no educated person could believe in God? John Lennox is an Oxford mathematics professor and he believes... What is the standard for educated person? As I said, this is a waste of time.

@aquatix 11 лет назад

No, they're not moral equals and our morals do not come from religious belief. You seemed to have missed the point of the statement of all-loving. I'm personally not capable of loving Hitler (nor Mother Theresa for that matter, but that's another topic); however, an all loving god void of condition based love 'should' be loving of Hitler and the Dali Lama equally. And correct, the answer is not to my or any educated person's liking because it steps around the question...

@jaymesmckenzie5592 11 лет назад

Actually it is answered but probably not to your liking. Christ creates grace which is able to transcend sin. If God was like humans than QQ would have a valid point. I would explain more but on this forum it would most likely waste my time and yours. God judges the heart which means it is not as simple as 'asking for forgiveness' and verbally proclaiming Christ... therefore, your guess about Hitler is incorrect. In an atheist framework, are not Hitler and Mother Theresa moral equals?

@aquatix 11 лет назад

The question is not answered, actually. All loving is not really 'all loving'; rather, it is condition based love, which is quite human. I would guess if there is an all loving god, even Hitler would be saved in some heavenly after life. That is love we are incapable of. Perhaps you didn't understand what QQ was stating. According to Craig, all loving is being sacrificed for justice but no justice is sacrificed for all love...

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

I think its application CAN be pragmatic but it's not necessarily so. Otherwise, you can't account for things that may be pragmatic but still unjust. (Say, the Nazis killing the handicapped for genetic improvement of the human race.) I understand what your argument is. The problem I see is that you can't seem to account adequately for what determines the gravity of a wrong, other than appealing to human consent for which we haven't heard a justification in your view.

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

Whoa. Hang on a minute. I can see *law* being pragmatic (though that's not ALL it is), but what about *justice*? Justice is logically prior to law. And I'm equating the word "crime" with "wrong" on the basis of justice. So that's what I'm asking. Are you, in fact, implying that justice is a matter of pragmatism? After all, we are having this conversation over hell, and what you are implying is that hell is *unjust* because the punishment doesn't fit the wrong, is it not?

@Melchiorblade7 11 лет назад

Many great theologians fancied at the idea of Hell being merely eternal separation from God (albeit with variations). WLC has an earned Theological doctorate from a significant German seminary. He certainly knows what the bible says.

@Enriqueahalol 11 лет назад

ok well god is fair. he punishes the wicked and rewards the rightous. its like carma . jesus is also god who are you to say god cant exist in three different forms? hes god! and jesus christ is the only way to go to heaven for the path to heaven is narrow.. and all who call upon gods name will not all be saved.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

Well actually that is a thing one should condemn as it is considered to be cannibalism. Just as we should condemn wife burnings, stoning, jihads, and child brides. I think you've just shown me you are just fine with allowing evil to occur, and worst of all you don't think it ought to be criticized. Good job, you've proven yourself to be morally bankrupt.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

Nope. There are many different sects who hold Hell to be a number of different things some of which I listed ( fire and brimstone, separation from god,ect) resulting in infinite punishment. Regardless that doesn't detract from my point, that no matter what you hold to it will never be considered Perfect Justice.

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

Now, if you apply that to the issue of hell, contrary to what you claimed earlier, it *is* possible to commit a wrong of infinite gravity. If the wrong is committed against a being of infinite value, then an infinite punishment is also justified. It may make sense to you or it may not, but that's my view on that.

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

What happens if a crime is committed without causing any suffering? Pardon the crassness of this example, but if a man were to use a date rape drug, have his way with an unsuspecting woman and then covered it up in a way that the woman doesn't even realize what happened to her and she never will, is that not a crime then?

@fanghur 11 лет назад

God has not deigned to provide any valid evidence of these claims whatsoever, which is its responsibility if it wants us to take them seriously. An ancient book riddled with contradictions, written by ignorant Bronze and Iron Age savages does not constitute convincing evidence.

@hydroshocksunwell 11 лет назад

Bu yet we have Jesus to save us from that so called injustice you speak of. Your argument doesnt make any sense when the solution is freely given. If you dont want that solution then you deal with the separation. He cant force you to accept Him You choose where you want to go.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

You really aren't getting my point. Explain to me just how eternal punishment isn't immoral. Believing in this may not be immoral, but i'm not criticizing you i'm criticizing your beliefs. I also don't see the weakness in criticizing what someone else believes as every single person does it.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

You need to rewrite your question, currently it makes no sense. I don't need to study the bible to know eternal punishment for finite crimes is immoral. The facts for this are in our very own laws which are tremendously more rational than this cultural belief systems code of ethics.

@stevekim5754 11 лет назад

According to your view, how can it be a wrong (crime) for the woman if she didn't experience the suffering? There's gotta be something more to what determines the gravity of a wrong, don't you think? Why is her consensus important to begin with?

@jeffreylin1491 11 лет назад

This is what William Lane Craig said on his website: "The brevity of time it took to commit the crime is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the crime that matters. Punishment should be apportioned to the seriousness of the crime.

@maceysparrow8095 8 лет назад

Craig said once that God did not create evil. Hoverver here he says that goodnes of god can't exist without evil. Allpowerful god can't be good without evil. That's so fucked up.

@angelus_solus 8 лет назад

+Macey Sparrow that philosophy is very messed up. fact is though, it's also very wrong. this CRAIG is very wrong. there was no evil in the world until satan decided to rebel, and coerce adam and eve (and later a large portion of the angels in heaven), to join his rebellion. if god couldn't exist without evil, then why does it say in revelation that satan, his demons, death and the grave will be destroyed in the future. craig's logic is VERY flawed.

@snowtracks 6 лет назад

He didn't say that but nice try though.

@snowtracks 6 лет назад

Didn't say anything about goodness can't exist without evil, but nice try though.

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

Perfect Justice = infinite punishment for finite crimes on flawed organisms. Not what I think could be defined as justice in any sense.

@Tobi_237 2 года назад

The punishment only remains infinite if the “flawed organisms” die in their sins and in their lifetime refused the gift of Perfect Savior who BORE the punishment perfectly already, hence we are JUSTIFIED BY FAITH in this Perfect Savior - Jesus.

@TheTomTomsMusic 11 лет назад

you seem like a fella who chooses what he wants to believe and doesn't look at facts. How is wlc's direct quote of the bible go against the bible?

@danielcartwright8868 6 лет назад

"How could a just God send people to heaven?" Is not a hard question when you consider that God understands how imperfect we are. The only scenario in which that question is hard is a scenario where God has unfair expectations of humanity.

@davidnewhart2533 2 года назад

I don't think you understand at all. Everyone is a sinner; we broke God's law and Jesus paid the fine. When you truly put your trust in Christ, you will get the desire to not sin anymore.

@tsarbomba7585 2 года назад

@@davidnewhart2533 you will never get the desire to sin any more ? Even Paul says " For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing".

@drumrnva 11 лет назад

Any statement about hell or any other afterlife state is pure speculation. Every person on the planet has the same level of knowledge about hell. *yawn*

@joshatkins94 11 лет назад

this is hilarious. he starts of explaining how a loving god just HAS to send people to hell (people created sick by him - in his image - and without free will because he knows what they will do in the future) and then points out how unfair it is that bad people can go to heaven, the backs up and says no, no, bad people can avoid punishment because jesus (who is also god) was tortured to death. this is the madness that is christianity.

@RickStewart1776 2 года назад

Wow, even Dr. Craig gets things wrong from time to time. 1Thess 1:5 "For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake." However, in 2Thess 1:9 "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" More specifically, from the RSV: 2Thess 1:9 "They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might," It is even more odd to know that Dr. Craig uses the RSV bible.

@dafflad1 4 года назад

We call others pagans and say their going to hell simply because we don’t understand the central truth. Their story is the same, only the players have different names. The Bible Says This. Col 1:23 Be not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you have heard and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven. And Jesus Says This John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. NOTE ABOVE. THE STORIES THAT CAME TO ALL, CAME FROM THE SAME SOURCE DIFFERENT CULTURES BUT THE SAME THEME

@RadioactiveSand 9 лет назад

People really believe this. People actually justify endless torture for their brothers. This is fucking scary.

@angelus_solus 8 лет назад

+Obbelisk lol You're such an idiot! Don't you know how to read? They said: "don't bother replying to me again. it will be nothing but a waste of your time." I guess you're too fucking ignorant to figure out that they have no idea you even replied lmao. Wow you fanatics are stupid. Btw you worthless pharisee, do you even know what a "Cult" is? "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object (which covers all religions in truth), a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister (8 million is NOT a "small number", especially when they're growing by over 200,000 a year and i know for certain their beliefs are neither "sinister" or "strange"), a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing (again, that covers all forms of religion)." Then of course there's: "1 : formal religious veneration : worship. 2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents." In essence, anyone who's religious is following a "Cult" and you're nothing but a kettle calling the pot black you hypocrite. NICE JOB! lmao Now, to ensure that I won't be molested by your bullshit, i'm flat out muting your g+ page! SUCK ON IT! Reply if you want to wast more of your time. I won't know about it EITHER.

@yunusahmed2940 6 лет назад

RadioactiveSand great argument

@alsaxe1 6 лет назад

its scary if it's true..don't discount the possibility of it being true..

@RequiemNocturne1 11 лет назад

You seem to just keep going off on tangents. This doesn't negate my point that eternal punishment for finite crimes is immoral.

@Didilukes 6 лет назад

Very poor dipiction of what Hell is Dr Craig. Its more than a place of separation from Gods presence. Its a place of torment and pain where, as Jesus described on numerous occssions, there will be WEEPING and GNASHING of teeth! Luke 16 vs 19-31. Matthew 13 vs 50

@jaredhumpherys8335 7 лет назад

The idea of God relies on the presupposition that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. It seems to me that it's awfully convenient that God tells us he is all of these things, and we just have to take his word for it. Of course he would tell people he's perfectly perfect, you're not going to get blind worshippers if your God isn't the most bestest thing out there. I mean, would people worship a God that couldn't be omniscient? Yet in the Old Testament God has numerous setbacks as he guided his flock, setbacks that wouldn't have happened if he'd been omniscient because he could simply forewarn them of any immediate or future perils waaaaaaaay before they could happen. Would people worship a God that wasn't omnipotent? God claims this characteristic, and yet when Adam and Eve failed to resist eating of the apple of the tree of knowledge (which conveniently happened until the watchful gaze of a supposedly omniscient being), he couldn't just rewind the clock and tell them "Yo, that snake is a lying ass punk. I mean it, that tree's is off limits. I'm lookin at you, Eve." See, this is what happens when your write a character that's supposedly all powerful, you can't reconcile any mistakes because mistakes shouldn't be allowed to happen because, wow, that character is all powerful. Next time, write a God that has some flaws. Makes them more relatable to people, and also you can have plot conflicts without people asking why or how because this character isn't totally all powerful.

@vr_4691 6 лет назад

Cherry picking from the bible??? How about other description of hell?? Is god just? You have sinned for 50 to 100 years on earth but suffer in hell for eternity. How can punishing someone for eternity change anything? For what purpose?

@Aaronservant0 3 года назад

Jesus words: Matthew 13:41-43 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

@ricardoguzman5014 6 лет назад

Total nonsense. He conveniently neglected to mention being cast into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:15, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God in 2 Thessalonians 1:8, cast them into the furnace of fire in Matthew 13:50, the wicked shall be turned into hell in Psalms 9:17, the fire that never shall be quenched in Mark 9:43, and suffering the vengeance of eternal fire in Jude 1:7. I believe God's word, not Craig's half-truths.

@cruelsuit1939 10 лет назад

The only way God could suffer the same punishment for sin that He inflicts on His created beings would be if God/Jesus went to hell for eternity, but He didn't. Therefore it is impossible for God to be just. It is logically impossible for God to suffer the punishments that He necessarily must inflict on His creatures. He is said to destroy souls, but He can't be destroyed Himself. A being can not be considered good, or moral, or just, if that being inflicts punishment on its created beings that it will never suffer itself for offenses that it is not capable of committing itself.

@GaudioWind 4 года назад

What a nonsense! So, people who doesn't believe the existence of God has a crabbed and selfish heart? Secondly, God is perfectly just but forgives people who is really selfish and has a crabbed heart.

@caruya 10 лет назад

To Gog Mclaine and everybody else, God took a risk when creating us, but it's still better to create us and many go to heaven, than not creating us because of the risk of many going to hell. Hell as a punishment is allegorical. We choose it ourself, why, because we never made our identity to reflect God. Hell is loss of identity or rather the identity we created in our lifetime that is not God. An all loving and just God does everything in it's power to fulfill your chosen identity and also to suffer as little as possible. So because when judgement comes and our chosen identity is fulfilled, we either love God forever or hate him forever. Now, this hate is so immense that we cannot simply look at God and it's much worse to be in his presence than to be some where else, so God has created a state which is less torturous, aka hell. So here we see that God's just is not hate, it's perfectly in par with his love. But hell is still lonelyness and eternal separation from him.

@caruya 9 лет назад

John Milton No. God's knowledge is not like ours, it is not linear, it's multidimensional. It means he can see all the possible outcomes from all the possible events. He can see how I can go to hell and how I can go to heaven. He can see me now, if I had made some different choices, somewhere else, than writing this post. It's up to us let him, help us make the right choices.

@caruya 9 лет назад

John Milton Also, what you described is called predestination and it's totally against the nature of God in respect to us.

@Ady-gj4vh 4 года назад

Hell is far more horrendous than anything we can possibly imagine. Jesus spoke more about hell than heaven. People are in unspeakable agony engulfed with fire and brimstone its worse beyond any description. Dont gamble with your soul folks only Jesus saves

@cognoscenticycles4351 6 лет назад

There is a serious problem with this logic. The soul is not intrinsically immortal so those who gain immortality will have been granted that by God. This immortality will be for the righteous only. The wicked on the other hand will be annihilated or destroyed. There will be no endless separation from God because they will cease to exist. That does not mean that the wicked will not be punished for their sin, but the punishment will fit the crime. No sin will merit eternal punishment as it would not fit the crime and would not reflect God's perfect justice ad love. The key to this subject is to realise that man is inherently mortal, not inherently immortal.

@jimbrausky 6 лет назад

i feel like throwing up when i see people are so ignorant and insane to think such a horrendous idea exist. as if God was an insane animal capable of such unimaginable cruelty that we ourselves would not even do, but yeah believe God does. how sick people are. seriously

@benjamineinarsson1541 11 лет назад

So God sacrifices himself to himself to loophole his own poorly constructed system of what is sinful and not which can only sufficiently be described as ''divine whims''. Looking back when told not to: Pillar of Salt. Working on the sabbath: Death. Asking for forgiveness after rape and murder: Heaven. Because God butchered himself to forgive his bad creation for not living up to his bizarre standards that I personally would rather face any hell than live according to.

@Aaronservant0 3 года назад

The Pit and the Lake of Fire are Biblical places of punishment and torment for the unrighteous dead, those who did not have faith in Jesus.

@hectorf7538 4 года назад

Not a satisfactory answer. No Christian apologetic can provide a satisfactory answer. If they did their business is over

@elkhuntr2816 2 года назад

If you minimize what hell is, Dr. Craig, you are minimizing what Christ did on the cross to save us from hell. Just look at the parable where Jesus describes of the rich mans and Lazarus in hell. It sure sounds like torture, fire and brimstone. It says he was in torment and asked if Lazarus could dip his finger in water to cool his tongue. You are doing people a disservice by minimizing the concept of hell to improve the power of your arguments.

@Nauti_Games 10 лет назад

Good stuff, and very interesting. Luke 13 : 28 also agrees with what Craig is saying in that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the unbelievers are thrown out from the presence of God. The 2 Thessalonians 1:9 verse that he quotes does say suffer the punishment of destruction. But perhaps it just means what once the unbelievers die, then thats it. Whereas believers are resurrected to enjoy eternity with God.