@@ruveniyawinipictures Serena won only 30 % of the tournaments she played. Steffi 50 %. Steffi played 13 slam finals against one of the top 10 greatest players of all time. Serena zero. I think it is OK to call you a clown, no?
@@carrerau7138 Theory and Practical application were different. Though I’ll say Serena wasn’t as committed as Steffi and also more injury prone early on her career
Roger Federer is the rebirth of Steffi Graf's tennis aesthetics and style. Especially compared to men's tennis serve and volley style, Steffi looks like Roger did in his prime: dominance through technique and court management.
And Monica was very flat/distracted by trying not to grunt. Definitely a mismatch on that day. They still had some glorious rallies though! Unfortunately, Monica was inconsistent and made a slew of uncharacteristic unforced errors which is never a recipe for success against an opponent in top form.
Eso no te lo crees ni tu, este partido lo perdió Seles por jugar muy erratica Steffi no hizo nada excepcional para ganar, por otro lado Seles nivel de sobra para ganar a Steffi donde sea, antes del atentado de hamburgo claro
@davidcarrascodelarosa5010 El head to head entre ellas antes del atentado era 6-4 favorable a Graf y Graf ganó 3 de los 5 partidos que jugaron durante el tiempo que Seles fue número 1 del 91 al 93 así que se nota que tus conocimientos sobre la historia del tennis son muy limitados.
@@franciscolaprida2133 In 1991 and 1992 Steffi Graf had only the 11th-best and 9th-best winning percentage of her 15 full seasons. And yet she won 3 of 4 matches against Seles in those years. Plus she won the most prestigious slam, Wimbledon, in both years. But you can't demand from a tennis great to be the #1 player also in such bad years. Neither Evert nor Navratilova nor Serena won a lot in THEIR 11th-best and 9th-best years.
Seles never won a single set agst Graf on grass. 6.0 6.1 in 1989 and 6.2 6.1 in 1992. Pre stabbing. Facts only facts please!@@davidcarrascodelarosa5010
these 2 players have fan bases that always try to diminish what the other player did. i dont understand it. they were 2 magnificent champions. why cant the fans of both players leave it at that?
For some reason it’s difficult for Graf fans to accept that the career of Seles and Graf was significantly altered by the attack on Monica. Even though that was the exact motivation behind the attack. Some people are just kind of on the special side of the spectrum. They were both tremendous tennis players. Obviously two of the best ever.
@@Ricky-mo6mv How was Steffi's career "significantly altered" by the stabbing? Yes, without the stabbing she would have won Wimbledon 94 as well (was the winner in 91-93 and 95/96). But that is only one slam more and not significantly.
@@carrerau7138 Oh definitely. The fact that the stabbing occurred and catapulted Monica into a flurry of mental and physical struggles, made it more difficult for Graf to go on and obtain 11 of her 22 GS titles. Monica had beaten Steffi in 3 of the 4 GS finals they had contested before the stabbing, so the absence of her most fierce competitor made racking up future titles much more of an obstacle. On the other hand, Monica’s life being upended made it infinitely easier for her to obtain 1 more GS title after returning to the tour in her second and clearly altered career.
The male commentator was so savage back then to call Mariann De Swardt overweight. I understand that there is a perception of how athletic was required for playing professional tennis but there's no point to call out somebody's appearance. I guess back in the day people were more tolerant towards ignorance.
@@keithlawford-r5e Yup. Remember back in the day when we used to have comedy sitcoms? Now you can’t be comical because some idiot ends up claiming they are offended.
In a list of the top 40 players (male or female) of the open era up to 2007, Tennis Magazine put Navratilova as the greatest female player ahead of Graf. Sabatini, Graf's best contemporary rival in terms of h2h, squeaks into the list at #40. Enough said about the competition Graf faced post stabbing. She picked up 6 cheap slams against b listers like Mary Joe while Seles was sidelined by your fellow grafanatic. Raymond Lee, the distinguished Tennis historian, did a comprehensive statistical analysis entitled “The best of the best” in an article for Tennis Week in 2003. The conclusion: “Comparing the peak five-year periods of Navratilova, Evert and Graf reveals the true greatness of each champion as each woman's record makes a legitimate claim for the prestigious place as the greatest player of the Open Era. However, the statistics don't lie: when you look at Navratilova's career record of 167 titles, 18 Grand Slam singles titles and an incredible domination of women's tennis over a five-year period, you have to conclude Martina Navratilova is the greatest women player of the Open Era.” He continues: “The greatness of Navratilova is a given, but what was absolutely astonishing was Navratilova's comprehensive domination of women's tennis from 1982 to 1986. In that stunning span of five years, Nav. In that spectacular five-year span, the serve-and-volleyer won 70 of 84 tournaments she entered and 12 of the 19 Grand Slams she played. No woman in the Open Era was as dominant during any five-year period as Navratilova. Her official record of 167 singles titles may well prove to be one of the toughest tennis records to break. In 1984, Navratilova set the Open Era record for most consecutive wins with 74 straight victories and 6 consecutive slams. The owner of 59 Grand Slam titles overall, Navratilova's numbers are mind-boggling. As Tennis Week senior feature writer Bud Collins writes in Total Tennis: "As a pro since 1973, Navratilova played and won the most titles and matches (1,440) with a won-loss mark of 1,440-213."
You are referring to the AMERICAN "Tennis Magazine", right? Raymond Lee is a US citizen? And this "Tennis Week" - let me guess, it is an AMERICAN outfit? And "Total Tennis"...? 😂😂😂 You sad clown.
@@funkyguy99 i said „without that grunting AFFAIR“. She was insecure and only thought about not grunting that much. That was the reason she wasn’t able to concentrate on the match
Two great champions, my favorite tennis match-up of all time. I believe this was their most one-sided score in a grand slam match and even then it was a thrill to watch, with Seles daring to expand her comfort zone and mix in some serve-and-volleys, showing she really had potential to extend her dominance onto this surface, and Graf showcasing all the attributes that made her game so effective on grass. There’s no doubt the criminal attack on Seles robbed all of us of the brilliant tennis these two could produce when they faced each other. Still, I always try to be grateful for Seles’s return and for the matches these two great champions did have. And I never tire of Graf’s beautiful strokes especially on this surface.
Graf played great here but i still think she played at a higher level against Sabatini in the semis, a much tougher and experienced player on grass. Also, Graf’s record against Seles for 1991 and 1992 coming into this match was 2-1 versus her 1991&1992 record against Gaby before the semis wich was 1-6...
Graf had the best 10 years period in WTA history with 676-45 win-loss ratio from 1987-96. According to Elo rating it was during the toughest era of WTA. Graf main rival was near prime Martina, Seles, Sabatini, ASV, Novotna, Pierce, Capriati, Martinez, Pierce. Even in 1998-99 Steffi faced peak Davenport & Hingis. But Martina from 1982-86 & Serena from 2008-17 had some of the weakest era in WTA history. Martina had Evert but she was tired & past her prime playing with wooden racquet while rest of the top 10 includes Shriver, Sukova, Jo Durie, Garrison, Kathy Jordan, Kathy Rinaldi. Little wonder why both Martina & Chrissy played together 80 times & 14 times in slams final because depth of the competition below them were extremely poor until 1986 or 1987. While post Henin retirement WTA saw another weak era where Jankovic, Ivanovic, Wozniacki & Safina like players becomes no #1.😂😂
Strongly disagree. From 1993 onward Seles was gone (even when she came back she was a shadow her former self), so were Navratilova and Capriati, Sabatini was fading and Graf got to beat up on the likes of Mary Jo, Novotna and Helena Sukova in slam finals (you're saying Sukova is evidence of lack of depth in Martina's prime but there she was again in US open final in 1993). Graf played Serena just twice (beaten once) and Hingis twice after 96 (when hingis was still just 15) and they were 1:1 in 98-99. Graf was one of the very greatest but she very much made hay while the sun shone.
@@donallynch1689 Graf beat Hingis twice after 1996. Infact a past prime Graf bageled her in Philadelphia in last set in 1998 lol. I am amazed you didn't name ASV as Steffi's main rival. After Monica's stabbing Graf beat her 4 times including 2 were classic finals i.e 1995 Wimbledon & 1996 French open. You didn't name Davenport, Pierce & Novotna ?? And BTW Capriati main promblem was Graf, in fact she had good h2h against Serena & Monica. A past prime injured Steffi easily thrashed her even in 1999 Miami. Little wonder Capriati started to win slams after Graf retirement. And i didn't name just Sukova, the whole top 10 (except Evert & Mandlikova to an extent) was far weaker than Steffi's era top 10.
Seles was an ungainly, awkward player. Bud Collins compared her movement to that of a crab. It was not a compliment. Never understood what her fans saw in her game.
All tennis players no matter which level the have should watch and learn from the speed of her feet and footwork from Steffi I have seen her playing when she was 15 and I will never forget how she moving over the the tenniscourt The only one who can match with Steffi footwork is Roger Federer.
@@xophsl479 There doesn't come power from grunting. Seles knew that she was going to get clobbered and needed an excuse afterwards. So she decided to stay silent.
two titles at least.... if Lori McNeil and zverava could beat graf Monica could beat her as well. granted grass would never be her strongest surface because of her game ... if Monica played like she did in the semifinals | believe she had the edge mentally over graf and could have won though I always give the slight edge to graf only on grass when they both are playing their very best. BUT its not a total impossibility as you are trying to say
@@bryguy0111 McNeil and Zvereva are serve and volleyers. Nothing more deadly when they're on -- on grass. Monica wasn't going to be Steffi on grass. Now stop.
@@bryguy0111Lori McNeil was superior grass court player than Seles & Zvereva victory came against past prime Steffi when she was battling with injury. Had Zvereva meet Steffi in 1999 Wimbledon then Steffi would beaten her.
Boh...I see that Monica at...19 year old had already won 8 slams between 1989 and 1993. 8 slams in 4 years. NOT TOO BAD ! BEFORE that stab in Hamburg. AFTER the stab...Monica wasn't the same. At the time of stab Monica was 19 with 8 slams and Graf 24 with 11 slams. Without MONICA....Steffi won others 11 slams. Got the point "Graf-maniacs" ????
Auf Rasen war Steffi Chefin,da war der Slice ne Waffe,auch Aufschlag und Volleyspiel von Steffi waren besser, das war das einzige Wimbledonfinale für Selez,und da hatte sie keine Chance gegen Steffi,während sie ansonsten auf allen anderen Beläge Anfang der 90er gegen Steffi gewonnen hat.
Seles gewann 3 Spiele auf Asche und eines auf extrem langsamem Hard Court (Rebound Ace bei den AO 1993) gegen Steffi Anfang der 90er Jahre. Und dann später noch mal eines bei den AO 1998. Aber nie auf Gras, nie auf Teppich, nie auf schnellem Hard Court (wie er bei den meisten Turnieren verlegt ist). In ihrer ganzen Karriere nicht.
It was too rude to not allowed Monica to grunt and result was she gave the match to Steffi on plate. It was Martina i think who complain about Monica in Semi-final and then she was told not to make loud noise. Monica was little less in terms of grunt that Sharapova used to make.
@@tonynavaro4488 Nonsense. Seles would have won less than 5 slams if it weren't for the nasty Graf Blackmail Scandal of 1990-92 which completely derailed Steffi.
Quelle qualité de frappe de la part des deux joueuses. Quelle qualité de placement et de déplacement ! J'ai vu Chris Evert de près et je n'aurais pas touché une balle. J'ai vu Seles, de plus loin, et sur terre elle cherchait plus de longueur que de vitesse. C'était face à Aranxta Sanchez, qui ne faisait pas que courir...
Steffi obviously played great. Just focusing on Monica for a moment though, Chris Evert said something perceptive earlier in the tournament: that the more damp the weather became, the worse it would suit Monica. The ball bouncing low and skidding on a damp court, making it much more difficult for her to deal with slice on her forehand side. Also, I suspect the semi final against Martina Navratilova really took a huge amount out of Monica emotionally. Apart from the complaint about grunting, I dont think Monica was confident of winning. Virginia Wade said it was the first time she'd ever seen Monica look worried. As so often happens, players who've had a very emotional win then have a huge let down in the following match and I think that happened to Monica here. I think Steffi would always be huge favourite against Monica on grass and would have won anyway, but the match probably should have been a bit closer. Steffi said after the match about Monica "She's not that kind of player to beat 6-2, 6-1."
Seles remembered the 06 16 Wimbledon beat-down of 1989 very well. Which happened a few weeks after a close match at the FO 89. In 1992 they just had had another close FO match, Seles winning this time narrowly. She knew what would be coming....
After turning 16 till the stabbing, Seles led Graf 4-3 h2h and dominated her 3-1 in slam finals. Seles won 8 slams to Graf's 3 slams, 1990-93. She took over as #1. This easy Graf victory is not typical of their encounters pre-stabbing, it is an outlier.
For sure. Steffi played some of her best tennis on this day and Monica just wasn’t mentally invested enough to make it more competitive. She said she was trying so hard not to grunt in order to please people and it definitely showed that she didn’t have her usual focus by any means.
Steffi even beat Seles once with 60 61 pre-stabbing. Even with your cherry-picking - starting with Seles's first win! - you get this: - Steffi leads Seles 2-1 in non-slams after Seles's 16th birthday until the stabbing - Steffi won more points in total in those 4 slam finals - Steffi was 3-2 win/loss against #1-ranked Seles pre-stabbing - Steffi beat #1 Seles on every surface (grass, hard court and clay) pre-stabbing. All that in a period when Steffi had a 1-7 win/loss streak against Sabatini, a 2-3 win/loss streak against Novotna, a 1-2 win/loss streak against old Navratilova. Do you want to know what peak Steffi did with Sabatini, Novotna, Navratilova, boy?
I don’t like grunting in tennis, I never have. I tolerated Seles’s grunt because she was incredible to watch, and her grunt was not awful especially by comparison to today’s standards. I recall Sharapova’s grunt was so awful I would have to press the mute button to watch her matches. All that said, I don’t like the way this Wimbledon committee addressed Seles’s grunting. She was gracious to try to do as she was told, but you can easily see it affected her focus. We should all keep in mind that in 1992 Seles nearly won the entire grand slam. Seles won the 3 other grand slams this year. You just don’t go to a champion and ask them to change what they do without having a rule in place across the entire league. I find myself at odds here because as I mentioned I truly hate grunting. I love Alcaraz’s game but I can’t stand the sound. I think there should be a rule in place across the men’s and women’s leagues against grunting. BUT until that happens, I take issue with case by case application. I would be upset for example if at an upcoming grand slam final they arbitrarily told Alcaraz he couldn’t grunt. That is essentially what they did to Seles at Wimbledon in 1992. Even more ridiculous, at future Wimbledon’s they let her grunt like she normally did. What a mess.
Maybe if Tauziar and Navratilova wouldn’t have complained the situation would’ve been different. I always found it weird that Seles would not grunt during her training sessions though, at least that’s what Evert said while commentating in the 90s and going by small clips i’ve seen of Seles training.
Yeah, Monica was a grunter but it was usually rather subtle. I could never watch Sharapova with her screaming though, and Serena was often more than a struggle to watch as well. Especially late in her career.
@@Ricky-mo6mv I agree 100%. I loved Serena’s game and her passion, but the sounds she made were a different story. And Sharapova matches were just as difficult to listen to.
The absolutely highest level of play was Navratilova's 83-84 seasons. Best win/loss percentage, most consecutive slams, most titles, longest winning streak. This against another prime top 5 all-time great, Evert. The most dominant sustained spell in the pro era was Navratilova’s 82-86. Graf's reign was interrupted by teenage Seles, who dominated her 3-1 in slam finals up to the stabbing and took over as #1 player.
Navratilova won 13 of her 18 slams between December 1981 and September 1986. Evert, Mandlikova, Shriver, Sukova, Kohde were Martina's main opponents in those years. 17/18-year old Steffi was 5-0 H2H (10-0 in sets) against Evert, 4-0 H2H (8-0 in sets) against Mandlikova, 4-0 H2H (8-1 in sets) against Shriver, 6-0 H2H (12-2 in sets) against Sukova, 4-0 H2H (8-0 in sets) against Kohde in 1986-88. So 17/18-year-old Baby Steffi was 23-0 H2H (46-3 in sets) in 1986-88 against prime Navratilova's main opponents in 1981-86. 😂😂😂😂😂
