WISDOM OF CROWDS | Review 

Also I’d like to mention. Orso and his endearing and sweet relationships with his band of outcasts. Tunny who is seen as the “lazy” soldier, probably sneered at by society. Hildi who never got a chance from anyone else. And Gorst, bullied because of his voice, who happily gave his life for him. They knew the real Orso, and what a great guy he was.

Shout out to my boy Bremer dan Gorst🙏🏽✊🏽

Precious Shivers

Burned through it in 3 days. I hate/love how the ending creates so much anticipation for what's to come... only it'll be YEARS before it does!!! Damn you Abercrombie!

Not finished yet but favourite quote so far... "What do your friends call you?" asked Rikke "The Nail" "Aye but folk who are close" "Don't have anyone that close. Not now my da's dead" "What did he call you?" A pause. "The Nail"

Gunnar Broad's story arc actually made me cry. He felt like Logan if the bloody-nine never lost his family. The chapter "It Was Bad" had me shook. I felt it was his best circular character arcs ever!

late to the party but imagine if you will......... old man shivers meeting old duchess marcatto

I found Rikke to be most formidable in this book especially in her scene with Bayaz. I knew you would be hurt over your boy Orso but his last line "how's the leg?" was legendary. I also found myself rooting for Savine and Orso's relationship too but it was so easy since Leo is such a douche but glad he made up with his last bros standing, Jurand and Glaward.

I'm really gratefull for this video : I finished the book yesterday, and I reaally needed to share my feelings about Orso's end with someone. You see, I'm french, I bought the ebook as soon as I could, and no one around me has read it, or is about to read it any soon... And I was SO SAD and needed so badly to talk about it. It is good to see I'm not alone in this... I could have said the exact same things as you about this chapter. How you see this is all inevitable, how you hope he could be saved and know it would be cheap writing if he was, how his humour is his last defense... Well, thank you. I feel a bit better now.

Liene: "If you plant seeds and people start noticing them, it means you've planted the correct seeds." All (worthy) series writers: *scrawls on Post-It, sticks on computer monitor*

I just finished the audio book the other day. Agree with basically everything you said, but also because I've read the Heroes so many times, I'm oddly attached to Gorst, and seeing him redeem himself in Wisdom of Crowds multiple times did so much for me. I never felt like he deserved to be happy for what are probably obvious reasons, but it meant a lot to me that he got some manner of satisfaction in the end.

Mentioning civil war between Savine and Leo, can imagine them seeking aid from the south and north respectively and making it a wider conflict. So many questions looking to a future series, I just hope we don’t have to wait too long for it to come along 😆

I sort of hatet this one. Joe did put all my friends back to the mud.

Omg im glad im not the only one i been binge reading them for the last 2 months,that they became part of my day. I as well was like.....well now what?😳😂😭😭😭😭😭. I cried when rikke got her name. love how passionate you are about the series.

Finished WoC about an hour ago, read it in 3 sittings all up. I also cried, I'm sure you can guess why. Joe did it again, this book was so damn good and I'm very excited for the future of the series.

Just to say I started reading The Blade Itself after hearing you talk about The First Law like two years ago now and today I finished The Wisdom of Crowds. I also cried. One of the best journeys I've ever been on - thank you for the rec!

Yay for a review of this book!!! Read it in under 24 hours, it was amazing! Love Orso ❤️

Just finished the other day. Loved it. "How's your leg?" - Orso 😂

I'm a bit behind but just finished this book. I still feel like I need to process but had to see if others felt the same way I did and glad to see it wasn't just me cut up about Orso. How Abercrombie takes these genre standard characters like " Feckless Prince" and "Bold Hero" and completely subverts your expectations (in a pleasing way for once) still amazes me. His characters are always amazing but his storytelling in this trilogy has been stunning, I was shocked by things I didn't see coming, pleased by things I did and had a giant smile on my face anytime we got to spend time with Shivers. Loved it

It was by far my favorite, I felt very similar as you about Orso, he really impressed me in Valbeck and afterwards and after Jezal died I just really latched onto him. The moment he had with Savine, the little smile and him telling her he loved her...I mean...how did she not do more?!?! Also after seeing the maniacal change in Sworbreck I feel compelled to go back and reread Red Country Ps. I expected or expect Terez or Carlot or Cathil to retaliate in some way against Leo for Orso. I know Carlot sent Jewels to Vick (or did she) to pay off the gaurds but they should do more

I just finished and already want to read it again! So damn good. My emotions are all over the place, in a way Joe can only achieve. But I agree, I'm totally satisfied with the ending, however....Joe left enough out there hanging for more books to come. Here's hoping! All in all must read!

when i started reading, i was completely unprepared for how quickly things would get out of hand. felt the great change was completely rushed and like i was immediately on the back foot. which was quite a neat trick, since thats how everyone in the book felt too. i didnt have high hopes for the revolution, since i know joe, and knew he based it on the french first republic (just look at the cover), but i held out a little hope, in those early stages when the mood was high, that it might lead to some improvements? and i guess they got rid of bayaz (for now) so maybe? (but lets be realistic here) speaking of technique, joe continues to lean heavily on his patented joe abercrombie "little people"(tm) sections. and they mostly continue to deliver, i think. i mean, the noveltys gone, but they still work. there were two in this book, and a couple in the last two (or a couple each?) and thats probably a decent amount. im just worried hell overdo it and cause an inflation. valid to cry over orso, even savine does it. the really satisfying shock comes when you know whats gonna happen, but think, maybe, somehow, everything will turn out differently? but then it doesnt, and you knew it wouldnt, because its not that kind of book, but it still Really Fucking Hurts. abercrombie really is good at building up hope, and then crushing it with pragmatic realism. also, i really hated the ending, not the orso dying part, but the "teaser for the next book part". like fuck off joe, if i have to wait three years, at least dont make me crave it already 😡 (also, genuinely, i didnt like how much it felt like a rehash of bsc (yuru sulfur threatens main character who defies bayazs plans in the great game of chess, only for surprise supernatural backup to deliver her from harm). really supports my complaints about the fundamental flaws with the first laws setup and worldbuilding)

Before I read Joe Abercrombie's book I know I will love it: a) because of the title b) because it is Joe Abercrombie. The Wisdom of Crowds has the best title after dethroning the previous best title The Trouble with Peace. Your review just confirmed my theory :D

Oh man finally I couldn't wait to hear your take. I finished it yesterday and I too got really sad especially towards the end. I wanted certain people to die so badly because I was upset about the death of the coolest character of this trilogy.

Finally was able to read it and agree with everything you said! I also thought it was either going to be Glokta or Bayaz, but was glad it was Glokta as the Weaver. I don't like how he did it all just to win Savine the throne. I would have preferred if he only did it to completely get rid of Bayaz. I mean, who would want your kid on the throne with Bayaz still around? Also, does anyone else think that Savine could actually be good if she got rid of her Pearl Dust? It seems like anytime she was out of the stuff she actually was pretty humble/not completely self absorbed

I got teary when Orso was saved from the Tower of Chains. I did not like Clover in A Little Hatred, but loved him by the end. I loved his last chapter. I opens up so much for the future. Leo's a douchebag.

So. I was finally able to watch this and you’ve mentioned 99% of the stuff I want to talk about… agree with everything you’ve said 💯

Even listening to you talk about that scene makes me want to cry again.

Love this review! I just finished reading it 😭

I’m not a grim dark reader so I didn’t read the “Wisdom of Crowds” but I did watch till the end :p Great vid, almost makes me want to dive in. Loved the cockroach joke lol. Almost fell of my ladder.

My copy arrives today! I'm very excite!

Well jeez you made me tear up! I also identified with Orso the most... just finished the book

I can't wait to get my hands on wisdom of crowds

Okay, I am definitely picking up his books.

How's the leg? 😭😭😭

I definitely got a spec of dust in my eyes in the final chapters. Then I became mad. And after reflection, came acceptance. ------- Like you, I found a kinship in Orso. RIP my dude. Same for Gorst and Sulfur.

Here's my ranking 1. A little hatred 2. Best served cold 3. The wisdom of crowds 4. The trouble with peace 5. Red country 6. Before they are hanged 7. The blade itself 8. The last argument of kings 9. The hero's

I'm watching this now because I only finished Wisdom of Crowds and I have to comment because I had same reactions as you 😂And it's my favorite series as well . FULL WoC SPOILERS -- You basically said everything I was thinking too. I also never cried reading a First Law book before and I balled my eyes out when Orso died. Even though I saw it coming. And I too wish they never found out that they are related. I love Ishern-Shivers-Rikke too and would definitely get a drink with them! And I also I'm good at guessing where the story is going but I love the way he does it, it's not exactly predictable in a sense that it spoils itself, but everything feels like a natural progression and twists feel like "aaah right, that makes perfect sense, that's brilliant" Sorry, I just love it so much and it's not often I agree with someone on every point about the book.

Haha I wondered how early you would upload your take. How rare nowadays to eagerly anticipate something and not be let down.

It was so good. It is my favorite as well!

I have never read anything from Abercrombie but,The First Law is on my TBR,after I'm done with Dune Saga(all six books from Frank),currently rereading the first one.I'm sure I will read all the books in The First Law Universe until the end of the year and then finally I will know what are you talking about and why do you love these books so much 😅.

Just watched your interview with Joe and now this, awesome content you're making!! I just burned through all the audio books in no time and I feel empty now that it's over. I also attempted to real the Goblin Emperor after WoC and it was just absolutely brutal. Will be looking to you for future reccomendations! How do you think Nevermoor would be after WoC? Also, have you read the Malazan Empire series?

Styria. Monza and Fiero and Shenckt, Who Does Not Kneel, and Monza's son. I would also like to know how Fero took down the Gurkish in detail. Those are at least two books right there.

i grabbed the first law years ago and couldnt get into it, dont think I would like them that much, but it seems pretty clear that he has gotten alot better as a writer and hes a cool cat and i just wanna see how he has developed over the course of his books cuse this series has a A level feel to me

What is everyone's speculation on the vison? Was it Glustrod do we think?

Mr Abercrombie can break my heart whenever he wants. What a weird thing to say sheesh.

adored vic's ending. found rikke's plot a *little* obvious but the stuff about her long eye being closed was really neat and made her look super clever. Orso was great. have very very complicated leftist feelings about the portrayal of revolution and human nature, although honestly I think the arguments were very familiar from a leftist perspective. also it was fun that it wasn't a straightforward conservative criticism of the revolution, there's stuff there that reminds me of Kropotkin criticising the French Revolution and Paris Commune. Personally the politics of the book are fascinating, but as always the characterisation is the best part and absolutely perfect.

Finished The Wisdom of Crowds this afternoon. Probably my favorite of Joe Abercrombies books so far. I was bummed about Orso's end, mostly because he was one of Joe Abercrombies rare likeable characters. So many little nods to his other books as well. When Savine went to the solar society meeting and the guy mentioned traveling into the far country with a man named Lamb I was thinking, "My boy went on a road trip with the bloody nine and had no idea." I enjoyed it almost as much as Mark Lawrence's King of Thorns, almost, which is about the highest praise I can give to a book.

I just finished this book, and due to the spoilers, this is exactly what I needed. Thanks. :/

This wasn't my favourite in the trilogy since I didn't love Rikke's part of the story as much as in the earlier books, however the ending was extremely satisfying and I loved all of the glimpses of what could happen next.

I was going to hold off on buying the audiobook...but I need to know how this ends. I'll let you know what I think on discord (I think I can afford it now 😄). And I'm pretty sure he's not done. Lord Grimdark said in a Reddit interview, First Law is where his author's heart is, and after he finishes his next series he was thinking of doing more stand alones. Anyways, see ya on the spoiler side. EDIT: I finished it this morning. And Orso ended up being one of my faves too... :cry:

Yup just finished this book today, Joe abercrombie is my all time favorite author but I'm so mad cause my favorite character Orso died. I was just really hoping he would somehow make it out. Now in a future book is there any possible way for him to come back, or maybe he will come back as dead Orso and or just haunt Leo and seveen.

Have you read Ballard's High-Rise? I think the character you were disappointed in had some similarities. Also, hate to break it to you, but at the event in Bath last week, Abercrombie said the idea that he's currently playing with is in a new world. So, I doubt we'll be getting more from First Law any time soon.

Shit, now I'm crying again after being teary all day. I need to do some art of my boy as an outlet.

Where is Ferro?

i definitely thought bayaz was the weaver. since there was such division and hate from the citizens he let them have a " purge" to get out of their system and then do a fresh restart.......so it was pretty awesome SANDY GLOKTA was the man behind the curtains

been needing to talk about this sooooooo much! Gotta say in the first trilogy i didnt hate most of the characters cuz i found them charming aside from them being horrible people, but that may have been because they were so removed from me but this trilogy! I hated them so much more but i loved them just as much and i think that because their actions are not so removed from the modern day and its for lack of a better word, triggering. its like watching friends do bad things and being annoyed with them for their decisions Anyway i cried and my friend is busy reading books on fermenting so im just bottled up!

The final third of the book (Leo reseizing control away from orso) was a massive gutpunch and made Leo a quite hate able character for me where as in the two books prior I just considered him easily led astray. I thought orso was a pretty good guy all said and tried his best so I'm glad he got the last word. The one that hit worst was the death of gorst, it was between him and shivers for me, if they had both died I don't think I would've continued so I'm glad one of my angry old men got through it!

Happy for you, Liene! After so many books, having a conclusion stick the landing is important. Payoff is important!

Idk... I'm about a quarter through it and it's...ok. I don't think anything will top a little hatred or best served cold. I will, of course, withhold final judgement for when I'm finished.

Did you get the US or UK cover? Tbh I think the UK covers look better and I personally find them more collectible😁

I’m so upset I want to dislike this book just because of that one scene you mention but I can’t. Ugh!! Great book though. Hoping we’ll get some more progress with main story line (Bayaz) in the future books.

I finished the book last night I really enjoyed it the age of madness is a great trilogy I really grew to hate leo and I wasn't surprised about what glokta did but I do sorta feel sorry for sabine even though I still hate her I do feel a little sympathy for her

Kinda spoilery Just finished it and I am really curious where Hildi’s story is gonna go. Kinda had an idea but after that last vision I’m not sure anymore.

Orso is my favorite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now im crying.

I just finished the book. I don't have anyone to talk to. I'm a mess. I cannot stop crying. I feel like Abercrombie punched me all the way from England. MY BABY DIDN'T DESERVE THAT ENDING 💔😭

I was in the middle of class during when I got to *that* scene. Had to leave=(

SPOILERS Say what you like about Leo dan Brock, say he's a c*nt (sorry, couldn't resist) He turned out to be a very petty and bitter man. Even in winning there was little put downs that clearly grated on him and soured his victory. His former lover saying "We're even" through gritted teeth with obvious contempt. His wife with just as much contempt laying down the law. Finally Orso's final words to him "How's the leg?". Great line to make his exit with. Got a little choked up about Gorst surprisingly, reminded me of what happened to Wun Wun the giant after Battle of the Bastards on GoT. Black Calder's last words were very interesting too, obviously connected to the boy with Bayaz and Rikke's last vision. Loved how Rikke won the battle of Carleon. Particularly liked the scene where Caurib lifted the mists. "FUCKING FLATHEADS!" as Black Dow would say. I don't think Zuri was just any Eater, I think she's none other than Ishri. I may have to re-read the whole series

Think Vic had the closest thing to a happy ending

Ok, let me just say, Abercrombie is my favorite fantasy writer. But, I'm sorry, that ending didn't land for me at all. It basically ends on a cliffhanger with no continuation in sight? Bayaz, who I thought would finally get his come uppance in some way, is not only still alive, but I don't even particularly hate him anymore. If anything, this ending showed people could be as cruel as him without having any influence from magical forces. And Leo, seriously, this dude lives until the end? I get it, it's a pyrrhic victory at absolute best, but this fool couldn't get a proper payback? On top of that, he's absolutely right about everything he says about Savine not even lifting a finger to help Orso after he had saved her life multiple times. I actually hate all of these characters that lived. It's a bummer for me to end the series feeling that way, but it's the truth. I get it, Orso had no place in this world, but everyone was just so wretched and irredeemable by the end. Yeah, there was some good side characters like Shivers, Tunny, Hildi and Gorst and Vick to some degree, but at this point I am rooting for Bayaz. Something I never thought I'd say.

Leo's ambitions can never, ever be met by his limited capabilities.

At least Sandman Audible Act 2 is coming out next week 🥳🥳

Please don't hate me, I've not read WoC yet. In my defence, I have a pizz poor memory, so I wont remember any of this by the time I do read it :)

Orso was merciful to Leo when he was going to hang him. When the positions were reversed he did not receive that mercy in kind. This is the 1st law/Age of Madness trilogy in a nut shell.

With Orso dead and Leo still alive I need closure. Nothing will satisfy me more if someone he trusts like Jurand betrays him, but I hope Joe Abercrombie will come up with something better.

I know exactly how you feel. There's a huge empty gap in my life. Nothing is going to fill it. I might have to have another kid to try. No chance that is going to do it. Maybe twins 🤔

Rikke's vision does not bode well. Calder's son on a throne with Shiver's sword makes me sad.

SPOILERS: Im shocked Shivers is till survive. I had money he'd die in this book. I even yesterday at the book signing he did in london i got him to sign best served cold for Shivers sake. So glad he survived and Rikke and her lot came out of this pretty unscathed. Felt like when she got her tattoos she kinda just floated form victory to victory without much difficulty and was again surprised by how well she did, she in many ways came out of this the most cunning, stable and powerful of them all. Like she rules the whole north, like Bethod tried but is loved in her seat its so odd how unequivocally she succeeded in everything she wanted aside from Orso being with her but even not having that she gained everything. Phenomenal book.

I will never forgive Clover, I cried when Ricker walked in on Orso after the party, I thought he was saved. Broad I hated, he guy was just like a Gestapo death camp guard with the same excuses !

Had absolutely loved the first two books of this trilogy. But this one disappointed massively. Felt like I was reading one of the Shattered Sea series' book. Also seemed hastily written. Orso, my guy (sigh).

just finished the book and now idk what to do with my life lol. Abercrombie is leagues above most fantast authors

What do you mean about orso and leo? Abe what leo was the worst charapter haha

I hate Leo with a fiery passion. OMG!!! I was so Pro-Incest throughout this trilogy... I just wanted Orso to have everything his heart desires. He was the first 'good' POV character in the First Law world. Y'all ain't gonna @ me on this. Orso would've been a good King. My poor baby!

Abercrombie needs to just come out with one book that is absolute trash. Maybe something along the lines of a Freddy Got Fingered prank where he just makes some unapologetic nonsense because he can so my baseline for "good" writing can reset itself a little.

I hate Leo too. From the first book. He went from being an idiot to being an arsehole. Orso had a good heart, but was too indesicive. Savine went from cold hearted and ruthless to... basically the same, but a touch less cold. I'm glad Vick found a way out, Broad surely couldn't. Rikke became a true leader, and found out it takes a toll. And I fear what that bastard (I mean Bayaz, or Joe, or both) is going to turn sweet Hildi into. Oh! And Clover forever! Can't wait to see where the story goes from here.

First Abercrombie book to squeeze tears from my cold heart as well. What got me was Orso talking about how he wanted Savine to remember him as if he had just thought of a great joke. He was too good for the First Law universe. My only major criticism of the book is Gunnar Broad. He just has nothing sympathetic or likable about him. His motivations are impossible to relate to. Leo, on the other hand, was a horrible human being but his point of view was complex and compelling. He had a point in his final speech.

This book was overrated. 1st two were amazing. But. Ending which drives everything, made no sense.