Wish I knew this 20 years ago - Best & Worst Frames 

Amazon Store link: www.amazon.com/shop/tennessees-bees How to Assemble Frames! - My Favorite Way - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GKXEPA_pm90.htmlsi=D_HyXQmJZlrFkUp5

I buy all my frames unassembled. That way I can glue them right. Titebond III has never let me down

Hi Kamon. I appreciate these review style videos.

I have my father's frames, made by him around 50 years ago. He used them for maybe 20 years and I have been using them for almost 10 years. His boxes are still alive and well, the bees prefer them. They know what good wood is.

Miller bee supply is a great company. Boxes are great . Got my bulk order in 3 day shipped. Great people

HillCo is awesomeeeeeee. Love their frames and its stamped on the top of the frame of their name. So i know each time which way to face the frame so it doesnt get turned around

Mann Lake sold to investment bankers a few years ago. Prices got jacked up and quality dropped significantly.

I just bought 40 Hillco frames with Premier double wax foundation. Let’s see how they compare to Mann Lake’s pre assembled frames. I’ve always liked Mann Lake’s waxed plastic foundation especially compared to the Amazon junk. In my short time as a beekeeper, the bees have done great with it.

One of the issues in play is the type of bee we are using now. 20 to 50 years ago we were using Italian bees that were bred to avoid propolis production; we are adding carniolian and Caucasian genetics, both of which we used to avoid due to high propolis production. Now are frames are getting glued into the hives and subsequently being pulled apart during hive manipulation.

All boxes are not created equal. My words exactly. Wish someone had shared that little tid bit when I started out. Great info. Thanks

nothing wrong with Mann Lake frames if you glue and nail your self; two brad nails from top and bottom, one through to pin the joint together. other frames look nice, but at 70 to 90 cent more per frame, it adds up, IMO. I'm not commercial, just keeping 10 hives for fun here.

Glad you posted this video as I'm looking into getting some equipment soon. When you google online the first thing you see and is abundant is the stuff on Amazon. I come across your channel and have been watching it for information and appreciate videos like this. Thanks for the information.

Oh boy, I wish you would have made this video three weeks ago!!! I ordered a box of 100 unassembled deep frames and 100 plastic foundations from Mann Lake; when the UPS guy arrived, I was outside, and just from the look on the driver's face, I knew something was wrong. The box of frames was perfect, but the one from the foundation was completely turned open, and just by looking a bit, you could see the broken frames and dirt because that box opened in transit and was taped back together. The driver immediately said he would write a comment explaining how damaged the box was. Someone from Mann Lake was not moved by the pictures and asked me how many foundations were damaged!!! The box was made of very thin cardboard with no transit protection. So, the lady from Mann Lake promised to send me another box and requested that the box be double-boxed for protection. Do you care to guess how the replacement box arrived??? Same thing: no double box, no protection, damaged frames, dirt on them from when they came out of the box, and seven days later, she has yet to reply to my complaint. Everyone at my bee club was stunned when they saw the pictures of the damaged box. Has anyone experienced this with Mann Lake? I do not know what to do to resolve this, but I recommend to all of you to stay away from Mann Lake because I paid good money for those foundations, and I would like to get new frames that are not as damaged as I got. I'm in urgent need of assistance or advice on how to handle this situation. Does any of you know anyone in Mann Lake who could help me? It's too bad I can not post pictures to show you guys! @Kamon, maybe I can send you the pictures and make a poster to be displayed at the next bee expo, this is terrible customer service.

First! Hey kamon, nice video!! I’ve used a lot of frames and foundation. Really like premier bee products foundation, I’ve had a good experience with them and plan on getting more when I need. There is a lot of other options as well. But premier is great and well as a lot of others that I haven’t tryed. Got to rewax them, have some in storage that need it. I’ve also bought frames from Mann lake, they are fine too, at least when I bought them a couple years ago, now I don’t know what the quality is cause I don’t order much wooden ware from them anymore. I have a lot of boxes in storage so I’m good on boxes and frames for this year. I actually use a frame jig to put the frames together, works better and faster than putting them together one by one. I’ve had frames break and tear, when I put them together I always put glue and then put the nails in, glue makes a big difference. Again, Thanks for the video. Just some things I have used in the past on the topic of frames. Have a great week

That empty gap on the ML bottom frame bar is a great place for the SHB to hide. The groove in the top bar that extends to the ears I sometimes find wax moth larvae in there as well. I have since bought Hillco frames and I won't go back.

*I came for the conspiracy "You've been Framed" sounds like a good movie, but as you explained the frames, I too have them falling apart. I would use the hive tool to lift a frame and it pops apart due to propolis holding it. I thought this shouldn't happen, but shrugged it off. This makes sense. I switched to premier frames and don't have these issues. I guess we needed someone to call this out :) Who better then Kamon. Thanks, bud!*

Mannlake has really let their company go down hill on quality products. Boxes are not what they used to be for top grade materials you get budget materials for top quality pricing.

Thanks for sharing this kamon and laurel!

I started beekeeping, thinking like a builder. Now I think like a furniture maker... tight tolerances are my friend... nothing like equipment that is interchangeable no matter what year you made them😂

Thank you for calling out these companies. I understand times are tough right now, but it’s just as hard on the beekeeper. I hope they make some changes.

I do believe that Bob Binnie has the best inventory with regard to boxes and frames. He is a carpenter too. I do my own inventory with machines that I purchased from Home Depot. Because I am a carpenter too. Kamon you’re carpenter too.

Frames....my obsession for five years now. Oh I can't wait to show the world what we've done!!! :)

I had no problem with the Mannlake frames I bought last year unassmembled. I put staples in them and they are holding up. But I will say a lot of the frames arrived broken and they have terrible customer service. Same goes for their boxes. The unassembled boxes I ordered didn't even go together because they cut the box joints wrong. Took going back and forth for almost 5 days for them to finally admit it and send me new boxes that did work. I now only build my own boxes. That is the best way to insure they are built correctly.

What's interesting is that Mann Lake purposely saws their top bars down to 5/8" from 3/4" to make up for the 1/8" of comb space lost when manufacturers increased the bottom bar thickness from 3/8" to 1/2" (as plastic foundation became popular, since the bottom bar supports the plastic). I think part of the issue is the glue that Mann Lake uses for their pre-assembled frames. It doesn't seem to hold up well over time. I don't glue my frames any longer, but with Mann Lake's I do put a good angle on the side staple through the end bar so it penetrates the top bar we'll and haven't had any problems with them. I've assembled thousands from Dadant and other manufacturers over the years as well

I bought the pierco tripple waxed plastic 1 piece frames on your advise from another video. My Demaree split bottom drew 18 medium frames in 2 weeks during the flow!

I don’t use wood frame at all, I know mine are most the expensive ones with layens. But thanks for sharing this update

Great video I feel the same way about ML that's why WhistlePig WoodCraft got going. I'm glad you put this out there.

Great video Kamen. I just bought 30 medium frames from Hillco.

I'm in the process of converting my hives to Acorn full plastic frames. No more separation of the frames when I'm prying them up! Once they get too old, I can scrape off old comb and rewax, then put them right back into use. More pricey than wood frames, but they will likely last many, many years.

Never thought of gluing, thank you Kamon! ☘ 💖🙏💫

I've noticed foundations aren't equal either, even with extra wax coating the bees don't draw some out very well

I bought a few things now from Miller Bees Supply after seeing them at NAHBE. There 6 frame nuc boxes are built and fit better than any box I've run across. Hillco is my other favorite with the best customer service.

Oh man, what a coincidence this season I have already gone through 10 frames that have come apart from mannlake Full of honey andbrood. Errrrrrrr!!!

i use full solid one piece plastic frames (no wood ware) bee's don't have any major issues with them and they last.

Betterbee frames: Top Bar is 3/4" thick, end bars are 3/8" thick and the bottom bar is 1/2" thick. All the joints are glued and stapled, but they do have the empty gap at the end of the bottom bar joint. I found one side bar that was only 5/16" thick. Maybe their machine was out of adjustment. 🐝🐝

When you put a nail in from the side by assemble then the bottom won't fall out. Do not nail from the bottom or the top!

I’d like to hear about what you think of Acorn. I mostly assemble my frames and I use Titebbond 3. Good stuff.

I’m kinda upset I bought a few hundred Mann Lake frames. Just noticed today there is atleast 1/2” bee space on the ends.

Had the same issue I had to glue every frame I had not used yet. I used Tight Bond glue btw love that stuff

i wont buy mann lake foundations anymore. the last bunch i got they were poorly waxed, and the foundations were too tight in the frames to the point they bowed, and i had to trim down the plastic for them to fit. got acorns and they fit so nice, and the heavy wax gets the bees drawing them SO SO fast. i love them!

Thanks Kamon, we switched to Hillco and Premier and have been very satisfied. Mann lake frames and boxes have gone downhill. Hillco also has great customer relationships and John is not afraid to answer the phone or respond to emails , plus our favorite he’s a follower of Jesus Christ .

That’s why I rather buy the frames disassembled, I can glue and staple them myself. It may take a little longer but I know it was done right.

I love my Anel boxes... maybe I will try the Pierco triple waxed plastic frames instead of the wooden frames..

Betterbee frames are different also. Longer for their boxes but tight on other boxes.

I personally make all my own wooden ware even frames. But if I was to buy I would support the smaller business. They have more to loose so they care more.

I ordered some frames & deep boxes from Mann lake , when it arrived & I opened I realized someone took a crap in the box

❤❤Let's look at the truck

Foundation is the same. Acorn foundation is phenomenal. There are a lot of cheap flimsy plastic foundations on the market too. I have not ordered from Hillco but I just looked at their website a couple days ago. I have a list of things I am going to order from them soon.

If I recall the "new" Mann Lake" CEO is s surfer with a college major in poetry. What could go wrong?

Acorn all plastic and they don't come apart. Not enough difference in price to matter and I don't have to put anything together.

You have great content, I like your channel a lot. You have a very good point here and I wish to ask you your opinion about how long we should expect a frame to last before some kind of inspection and refurbishment. Is/could it bee worth having an "in service data tag" on them. Many thanks for a just starting outa. Keep your wisdom flowing and long live the queen.

Nice video appreciate the honest review of these companies. How do you feel about plastic acorn frames? Feel like for longevity those could be the best solution.

I've had the same problem with Mann Lake

Of course I’m a day late and a dollar short. Just got a big order of frames from mannlake yesterday. Cheers

Mann lake frames suck, the plastic falls out of the deeps i just bought, then the shallows i had to trim 3/16 off every single foundation...not to mention the quality was just garbage, bad saw burn marks , split wood all throughout the whole order...i will NEVER purchase even the smallest thing from mann lake ever again even if its cheaper than a competitor...even the shipping was bad & i had to call & talk to them & the representative was bad... i hope that everyone pays attention to what people say about mann lake!! They got a great company from walter Kelley & ran it in the ground from greed off our hard earned dollars...i will tell everyone to run from them every chance i get 😂

Wow, are you made at Mann Lake. Not sure i would trash a company that supports the Expo

Hi from central Otago southern New Zealand 👋 unfortunately importing anything to do with beekeeping from the United States is illegal here which is a shame sometimes because you guys have some great products and hiveware. Personally ive never used glue on a frame but the frames available in NZ are very high quality and ive never seen one buckle, bow, sag, unstitch or warp out. Titebond 2 which i believe is what American beekeepers use for frame gluing isnt available here in central Otago which is a shame because ive often thought it would be great to pre glue the frames before tacking them up. Interesting video 👍 thanks for putting this together and uploading it, its always interesting to see what you guys are up too

You'd do backflips if you saw the UK national frames.

My big concern is the stapling . Glued or unglued the weak spot is the ear on the end of the top bar if i have frames break most of the time its there . I find not stapling fr the top helps by not weakening the wood (staple holes cause splitting compression under the staple crushes the wood under it )and stapling side bar to the top fr the side is stronger as you have to shear the staple to make the top bar move .

Didn’t read every comment, but you were “cutting an inch” on the tape measure. I don’t remember glueing my frames. It was a few years ago but I’m sure I watched a few YT on it. I’m going to go through and start gluing them up. I’ve had at least 3 come apart.

I was disappointed in my frames from Dadant recently. The top bars are all a bit over 1/8” shorter than my older frames. In my old hive boxes they can fall off the frame rests if the box shifts sideways!

The problem I've found with premier is the foundation is bowed in a lot of the frames. I noticed that in the example you had.

Kamon -- Aside from plastic/wood frames, what's your opinion on "all-plastic" frames??🐝

I buy cheap frames that I assemble myself and cheap foundation to go with it. After I screw and glue a 2 inch drywall screw into each corner I have no problem. Now the cheap prewaxed foundation is a different story. I put those in my hives and the bees won't touch um so I pulled them out and rewaxed them

I have gotten to like beeline frames

Just placed my Premier order a few days ago

05:05 Long live the Metric System!!

Metric: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... Imperial: 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 ...

It’s call cost cutting

Our frames are cut and assembled by by an Amish shop in PA. Glued and Stapled. I was having the same issues with Dadant and Mann Lake you are having. Neither of those two are reliable and don't stand behind their product. The Amish frames are 7/8" top bar width, bottoms are full 1/2", side bars are full 1/2".

Man lakes are not what they use to be on there prices also 🤮🤮.

I bought Better Bee synthetic comb in frames 2 years ago, some of my bees still will not use it What are your thoughts? I bought it because Fred spoke highly of it, I e- mailed him, he never responded so I no longer watch his video. I am part of The way to bee fellowship, so I thought he would answer the question, A 78 year old beekeeper who has watched most of your video, and Freds until the was no response Thank for all you bee advice, RCB .

I should have got 50-100 more deep frames, replacing 30? and trying to figure out how to build and save them empty for the spring. My bees have crazy amounts of pollen everywhere. This spring I didn’t know what to do when every hive overwintered

I cross staple my frames. The staple has no strength or holding power when stapled from the top. I still have Kelly frames from forever ago, pre pneumatic staple gun, that are still holding together. Glue first, then staple horizontally.

I have frames that are all hard plastic and they are great. I’m in Australia I would presume you would be able to get them in the US. Love the channel

Ha Kamon. Good video. the commercial boxes and the budget boxes what is the difference between them. Miller bee supply are there wood boxes any good. thanks have a great week

Did you ever buy plastic foundation that was too big for the frame causing foundation to bow in frame. Frame jig used? Now that is a big problem for sure. Discovered this defect three month post purchase when needed to assemble. Near 200 assembled by hand, jig useless. Same USA company used for frames & foundation. If you buy in advance assemble upon arrival is my advice.

I assemble everything and nothing ever comes apart... nails in multiple directions and Tite bond glue...

Did you look at Dadant? They own their own saw mill. Western Bee Supply

$1.39 and $2.09 are not "...about the same price."

Hi Kamon where do you purchase your 5 gallon buckets , I need a Good source. Thanks. Tim

Hello Kamon, Good video. I notice from your frams, the Hoffman spacing section of the frame is cut square on both sides, which will meen that it must be hard for you to keep the correct spacing between frames. The frames that I have used over the last 60+ years I have had bees, have one side chamfered to a point on one side. This enables the beekeeper to be able to push the pointed part against the flat back part of the next frame into any propolis maintaining correct spacing. It is important when constructing frames, to make sure that the point is on opposite sides of the frame, so it does,'t matter which way round the frame is put back into the hive. It is customary to have the poit facing forward on the righthand side when looking from the top. Apart from ease of manufacture, is there any reason why American frames are different? Kind regards, Tony Marsh, UK.

Have you ever used Honey Haven't Lane (from TSC) ?????

If you find yourself with fake wax frames, do you need to remove the wax before applying beeswax? Or can you just put on a layer of beeswax?

How do you feel about the all plastic frames vs the wood ones?

I bought double waxed super foundations from Mann Lake and the bees won't touch them. I don't understand what's up with that!

I have the same issue.......I stopped buying thier frames around 4 years ago boooooo

I must be the only beekeeper left that refuses to use hard plastic foundation.

I am having issues with some of Premier's products. A few Boxes and frames were busted from the factory and lack of QC prior to shipping. Even reached out to them by email and they won't return my call.

Good video kamon

Acorn foundation hands down

I have a lot of Beeline and they have the different sort of tab at the bottom like the premier. So far I’ve liked them. But I assemble my own so I know a nuclear explosion won’t tear them apart 😄

Why are so many beekeepers all about purchasing from Amazon?

From my experience, Miler and mannlake have great customer service

MANN LAKE HAS 1.5 STARS ON TRUST PILOT... EXTREMELY BAD REVIEWS! BOYCOTT MANN LAKE!! I've been waiting a over a week & they havnt even shipped out 5 measly hive bodies..ridiculous! I need them the flow is on right now!!!! & we are going into a weekend so it'll be another week or longer before I receive them

I’m not sure this is a fair comparison . How do you know what their frames are like when you haven’t bought in a long time and you are comparing a frame that has sat out in your bee yard for who knows how long? I just bought frames from Mann Lake. The quality seems great and my bees are drawing them out really fast. Whenever I’ve had a problem I just call and they made it right.

Just go metric...for the love of GOD!

80% of commercial beekeepers I know use Mann Lake frames. Many won't use any others. I guess they all don't know what they're doing? Is this guy getting paid by Premier?