Imagine knowing your playstyle is so infuriating and toxic that you make and bring a sign to tournaments just to show it to people after they get frustrated when playing against you.
@@ph0g275 You realize that's a fucking stupid comparison since Bayo pretty much killed smash 4s competitive scene right? No one cares about it now that ultimate is out. Not to mention Bayo at least is moderately entertaining to watch, unlike wobbling.
Wow people arguing over an incorrect point Wobbling was banned as soon as it began to become common. It was unbanned by EVO for literally no reason in 2013
@@Chair-Son god thank you for commenting this. They unbanned it because infinite combos being legal is standard in the fgc so to stay in evo and keep rulesets alike they kept it legal. Wobbling is definitely not as input intensive as other infinites tho, so 🤷♀️
@@BlackBoxGamers wavedashing isn't an exploit. It's coded in the game to specifically work like that. Sakurai just didn't expect it to be used like that. Also there's a difference between a technique everyone can use and one that only one character can use with little to no drawbacks
@Ronan Dre I remember them because of the Desync combos in ultimate, and the weird moments where Nana actually knows what to do. My favourite thing about them was NOT to grab, but that 40% damage an unreactable and uncharged down smash.
@EMERSON FITTS i disagree completely, the only people planking are doing it to ice climbers, and m2k. But m2k is a whole different matter he thinks there should be a ledge grab limit to characters that he doesnt play. Imagine being an ice climbers player that wobbled people for 3 years and then complain that jiggly puff players dont let you play the game, when your entire career is banning your opponent from playing the game.
If anyone pops off because they won due to wobbling it's just sad. It doesnt show any mastery over the game or sportsmanship when you get one grab per stock and its over without the other guy even being able to do anything about it. It would be like if one team in basketball was allowed to dribble outside the lines, or a team in baseball wasnt allowed to have anything pitched against them except straights right over the middle of the plate. You could probably still win under those conditions but it just defeats the purpose of playing.
Wisnam Nintendude is a good player with or without wobbling. Yeah wobbling helps all of them, but I’m pretty sure he popped off because he made top 8 against a player who often gives him trouble
He popped off because he beat one of the best Melee players off all time in a matchup that is extremely difficult for ICs. Don't blame him for using everything at his disposal to win, blame the game or the rule-set.
Notice the huge difference between hand offs/combos and wobbling. Some of the opponents actuallynlook impressed or entertained and have a laugh. Wobbling there is silent contempt
Hand offs to me are some of the coolest things melee has to offer. Wobbeling tho is just weird. I wouldnt mind it if people can wobble when down 2 stocks but seeing sets like none or west just makes you hate the game
I remember going to my first Melee tournament at the University of Rochester. I wasn't really a great player, but I had some pretty high hopes that I at least might be able to make it a round or two in before getting dumpstered by the veterans since I'd played pretty casually with friends before. The first round, my opponent picked Ice Climbers and wobbled every stock he could. Once the set was over, he looked me in the eyes, smiled, and said "Good games." I haven't attended a Melee event since.
this exact thing happened to my second local ever, I got four stocked game two even though game one it was last stock to last stock. All four stocks wobbled, I played a LITTLE lazier and got wobbled all four stocks and tilted because I lost the first two to easy shield grabs (which was my fault but the punish is just fucking ridiculously brutal) then I sighed and the wobbler just fucking laughed. never went to a local there again because the ex marth player who turned into a wobbler started magically winning locals more often
That sucks man. It’s a crutch of a technique that at best can only help to encourage the player’s development of the rest of an arsenal that IC’s have at their disposal. At that point, I don’t see the move having much more significance in the meta of the game if it can’t even necessarily help IC players net wins at the top tournament level. I do think it was right to keep it in and test it’s place in the game overtime, in order to not set any ban happy precedent. But since the character has developed to a fairly competent point in being able to understand their full potential, I don’t think the IC’s necessarily need that move anymore to carry them if it’s no longer significantly contributing to their meta-game.
Man, imagine an exploit allowing people to do 150% damage and kill off one grab where there's nothing you can do to escape it, and people tried to defend it.
It's true that you can't escape it, but you can avoid it by not getting caught. The fact that Wobbles isn't played in 100% of the games shows that this technique isn't game breaking. It's annoying for sure, but you can outplay your opponent.
@@thel33tpenguinftw40 Actually, yeah 😂 Mostly good, but I totally get your point - there's many examples of failing it from high level players - so it's not a free stock. That being said, a 3-4 frame combo with no opposition is vastly easier than outplaying an opponent. That's most people's point: It takes a lot of gameplay away from the match up. Compare this to Zangief from Street Fighter, where you need setups and a lot of reading your opponent to win a round. Snake Eyes is extremely impressive and entertaining to watch - the direct opposite of a single grab into KO
what kind of person do you have to be to compete in a game where 99% of the people you're playing against legitimately hate you and they all just sit there like "ah well unlucky pal just dont get grabbed :))"
YGuy1 Bruh it’s not that deep, they’re just saying "if they’re winning and are being ranked better, then they don’t care about the opinions of 99% of players since they’re not classified 'as good'". It’s not like they’re saying "well you’re just worse than a wobbler so you don’t matter"
benackdrums wobbling isn’t that bad, sure it’s a zero to death move but pro’s adapted to it by speeding up their gameplay never stand still or hold shield for too long, also iceclimbers is (or are idk) a really bad character and is bottom tier so wobbling is all they have
jess camara kinda unnecessary to call me a retard, just to be clear I don’t support Ice climbers players but i’m just saying that wobbling is the only thing that makes iceclimbers viable
And then everyone starts bitching bout their ability to wobble. Like shit just admit that watching it bores you, don't just say "buh huh I want it banned because I'm a gigantic man baby"
patrick pettibone wobbling isn’t fucking skill its cheap people only use it so that they can piss off people better than them instead of actually playing smart they have to wobble only because it grants them a free win not just a free stock A FREE WIN
Jacob Carpenter If they couldn’t kill Nana the hard to protect dumbass. They absolutely deserve it because it is a test of skill on the Icies part to keep their biggest killing tool alive.
@@justice8718 so they can lose a stock because they cant kill Nana? That's like if you got shot in the leg every time you answer an algebra question wrong.
Wobbling honestly holds back IC's in the meta. Who knows how many new things could have been discovered if IC's didn't have to focus on a wobble to win? They've got so many nasty tricks outside of the wobble!
@@evileye1199 Yeah. People like him and Wobbles were great for the meta, especially when the pushed the boundaries of what people thought was possible with the character. With the players now, it's just one move, over and over to win.
They don't though. Talking about undiscovered tech for them is as productive as taking about undiscovered tech for the rest of the cast, and there isn't anything new. When you ban wobbling all you're saying is you want to make sure that ices can't beat any other floaty
@@L0Ldude11 another thing in melee is - people don't want to play characters that are seen as lame. but with wobbling banned, any ICs that makes top 16 will be seen as a fucking god and everyone will love them.
That makes no sense. I agree that they can be pushed a bit further, but how can it hold them back? It's literally the objective best punish in the game. There's nothing better. The only way ICs mains are held back are 'cause they sometimes fish for grab in various ways.
Please read the entire wall of text, I promise you it will be worth your while. All the arguments I see in support of Wobbling boil down to ICs being mediocre even with it. That isn’t the point. The point is is that Wobbling doesn’t make the character too good, it makes the game uncompetitive, un-fun, and overcentralizing. It’s a similar situation as Smogon’s Clauses for Pokemon Singles play: things like Evasion, OHKOs and Endless Battling aren’t allowed because they make the game un-fun and stale. Let’s take the Pokemon Walrein for example (which is funny because ICs and Walrein are both icy characters). Walrein sucks, but it can learn Sheer Cold. If Sheer Cold hits you, it instantly KOs you no questions asked. No rock-paper-scissors prediction needed, no move knowledge needed, no type advantage needed, you just faint instantly should the move land. Does Sheer Cold make Walrein good? No. The move itself is good, but not the Pokemon in general. Because Pokemon that can learn OHKOs are often terrible on their own, having things like Sheer Cold in competition would make the game less about dismantling an opponent’s team and more about stopping yourself from getting Sheer Cold’ed. And because OHKOs like Sheer Cold require no prediction or skill or game knowledge to use in addition to them being boring and uninteresting, they are banned. Wobbling is the same. ICs are fun and interesting to watch, but are mediocre. Wobbling is like Sheer Cold: it takes little prediction or setup to use, takes little mechanical skill and knowledge to use, and it isn’t fun or interesting to watch. It stales the metagame by overcentralizing methods not to beat the Ice Climbers as a character, but to avoid getting grabbed and Wobbled. The ICs aren’t great, but Wobbling is degenerate because it shifts Melee from a challenge of beating your opponent and his or her character and playstyle to literally a game of cat and mouse (if you get caught, or rather grabbed, you die). Watching people play Melee is fun, but watching someone trying constantly to not get grabbed isn’t. It’s boring, agonizing, and, when the inevitable Wobble happens, downright unpleasent. Just like the banning of Sheer Cold and the OHKO moves, banning Wobbling isn’t about making a character worse. It’s about improving players’ experience of the game and making Melee more competitive. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching ICs at the top of their game. But when people like Nintnedude come around and brag about beating top players by Wobbling them for two straight sets, it takes the fun and competition out of a game that in every right can and should be a fun and compeitive experience.
I dont rly agree with your point , Like with one hit ko moves on pokemon , when you see a character with a move like that you have to be prepare to deal with it , with evasion moves you should have a move that dont miss or gives you accuracy, the ice climbers are a especial carácter , they are 2 characters in 1 and from that peculiarity they can chain grab you, banning the moves of a character is just detrimental , you have to play vs the character and them have to play against your character Edit auto correct on other language
Vicmo That’s not fair to say. And if people did that, it would stale the metagame. I explained why that very situation is detrimental to a game’s competitive environment; try rereading the ENTIRE comment.
Also, you can’t prepare for OHKO moves, just like you really can’t prepare for Wobbling. As I said, not getting grabbed is far easier said than done. Furthermore, no one should be forced to use moves that are objectively terrible like Swift and Aerial Ace, just as people should never be forced into games where if they get grabbed they instantly die. Evasion is an objectively dumb mechanic for competition, just as Wobbling is bad for competiive Melee. The point is is that one should never, ever be forced to play sub-optimally to beat a certain tactic or mechanic. It’s not fun, exciting, or remotely interesting to watch and even less so to experience. Imagine if, to beat someone in a fight, the only way to do so would be to blind yourself because looking at your opponent would instantly kill you. Or if someone made you have to write an essay with your non-dominant hand and if you tried otherwise the pen would electrocute you. It’s not fair or fun for anybody, and nobody in their right mind would agree willingly to such things.
@@StarTard8 if is the strategy to counter someone you playing against then is not "suboptimal" "nobody should be forced to play something " and still fox only final destination, if you choose to play a strategy that the game allows you like evasion ,por OHKO (that ussually have low acc) , you still have to deal with your opponent using brave bird to kill you on 1 hit , that forced you to play suboptimal by having a rock wall type , and when spikes and sharp rocks where meta you was forced to play suboptimal to counter with a spinner, Stalling is not a bad thing per se, Btw ice climbers can counter wobbleling, and links can too Edit: suboptimal is very very subbjective in this type of games (if the "suboptimal" way counter the thing you are playing against then is becomes the optimal way) What is the optimal way to counter fox shine?
@@davidarruda8400 That's like saying I should be excited that I beat an Olympic runner by riding a motorbike beside them and smacking them with a stick while they're forced to keep running.
Never played Melee, but I play other fighting games and "wobbling" cropped up in my recommendations so - from a completely objective point of view. Wobbling is hilarious, the absolute fuckin' *audacity* to do that on a stage is quite commendable. (Obviously should be banned though)
@@sigurdtheblue in what way is his comment idiotic? It's well articulated and no grammatical errors. And his opinion is his opinion, which I agree with cuz fuck wobbling and double FUCK the people doing it during a tournament
@@justinbean971 If it's not banned, of course people will do it. The guy knows nothing about melee and he's saying that Wobbling "objectively" should be banned.
@@sptflcrw8583 You really don't need to play Melee to get the general run down on Wobbling and immediately think "Well that's not fucking fair, that should be banned".
I was on the fence, but this video was just the push I needed to decide that Wobbling is a degenerate strategy that needs to go. That "comeback" on Leffen makes me sick.
The only good highlights of ICs was mostly Wobblez and one Fly Amanita highlight. Crazy how both of them arent seen attending tourneys now a days as much feels bad.
Matthew Curiel Wobbles is officially retired and Fly has been on hiatus the past almost 4 years to focus on his Math Doctorate. R.I.P the only two dope ICs mains. Hopefully the ban brings forth a new gen of dope ICs.
@@InAshesWeStand not to b against or for wobbling . From a different standpoint wobbling is a good tool. But my catch is that for nearly every ic committed time into it that they have way more potential than wobbling. If they ban wobbling ur forcing ic to get stronger which will make it harder on u to vs them. It is like taking a small baby to speak for example once they learn how to they have more potential to learn. Sorry if I know it isn't the greatest example. wobbling holds their meta back to why their only a few actually good ics because they don't wobbe . It is a temporary solution for the problem . The problem being what meta has built around for ice climbers . It can be considered the basics for ice climbers . They will come up with more advanced techique and the community is going to hate it cause ur losing not to character but skill that will turn into rage against ics just like how the community wants Jiggs ban yet the only Jiggs doing good is hbox . Ur basically asking for more hungry boxes . I don't like or like the situation but I can say this in maybe a year or 2 melee will rise into a dark age starting with these types of problems
Uhaunted purpose I have to completely disagree. People hate wobbling because it takes 0 skill, Fly style de sync combos take a tremendous amount of skill. Drawing a comparison between current day Hbox and future 20XX Desync no wobble ICs is ridiculous to say the least. And saying banning wobbling will lead to a new dark age legitimately has me dumbfounded. There are so many illogical points here I don’t even know where to begin.
Uhaunted purpose tbh the problem is that there is so much more to learn with ICs but people opt to only exercise one tactic that isnt truly a product of outplay in every scenario (sometimes it is out play but either when it is or isnt out play it leads to a conversion that the opponent cant do anything about). I dont think it should be banned but I hope with it people lab the character more and see that there is still potential with ICs. There is so much endless possibility with the character ... all it takes is a vision, a bit of labbing and faith that you as the one repping the character can fulfill your own vision and showcase it consistently to show the viability of your idea. Wobblez had so many ideas that he managed to show people while he played that I'm suprised no one piggy backed off of his foundation he left and created any more. When there is so much more to learn. Wobbling allowed others to be content with not learning more with the character for some reason.
I honestly think this should have been illegal from the moment it was discovered, just like the IC's freeze exploit. It's just a cheap way to get a kill with very low risk, and super high reward. And as shown in the montage of IC combos at the end of this video, they are capable of so much more than just wobbling.
ICs are useless without wobbling and mediocre with wobbling. Sure the mechanic is dumb but it‘s far from actually being broken as the character using it is just not worth it.
I honestly don't even understand how something like this was allowed at all, dude. Like, you're put into a situation where one guy is basically just going to get a stock off of the other guy as soon as he grabs him, and from what I've been seeing here there isn't much the other person can do unless the wobbler lets them go. The dude getting wobbled doesn't have fun, it isn't interesting for the crowd to watch, and it doesn't even seem like the wobbler is having fun. Legit a cheese tactic where no one wins in the end.
pyre78 it's allowed because people seem to handle it pretty well. If it was good as people make it out to be they'd be the Bayonetta of melee instead of fox
@@stickmic2 Guess we should just ban boring characters. Let's ban Puff, and Marth while we're at it. We see too many Spacies, so let's just ban them too!
@@damplamp When you credit somebody for discovering something like this example it implies the definition thats a synonym with invented. I think you're referring to the definition that means found. A good reading comprehension can betray you in this given example. At the end of the day the semantics don't matter though. Wobbles was taught wobbling buy other people was the point of the original comment.
I can’t imagine it’s interesting for anyone else. The opponent can literally put down the controller. It’s basically a “you’re not playing the video game anymore” move.
Its about time. You know this tech is cheap if Wobbles himself doesn't use it anymore. The inventor thinks its cheap, the community thinks its cheap, twitch chat hates it, and the only people who support it are the ones who abuse it in bracket. Why was the ice climbers freeze glitch banned in tourny if wobbling does the same thing?
@@ghost1182able maybe inventor actually implies he invented it almost as if the term inventor is used to describe people who invent things. Maybe learn how to use context clues
@@phoenixjc6152Most people aren't going to know the esoteric facts of which japanese dude actually invented wobbling. Most people dont give a shit about it.
Even if you are not the first person to create/ invent something, you could still classify as someone who created/ invented it. *This only works if you have no knowledge that the creation or invention existed before you made it*. Let's say humanoid aliens had invented bicycles 200,000 years ago. This would mean the first person on earth to invent a bicycle... DIDN'T INVENT IT (according to all your logic) Using the logic stated in the first 2 lines of this comment: The first person on earth to invent the bicycle is an inventor of the bicycle. regardless of an alien on another planet making it before him or not. the point being, we can't be sure of who created what first. But we can confirm that the creator didn't know of the existence of the invention already, hence created a new invention within their perspective. Now we apply the same reasoning to wobbles, if wobbles copied someone else, then he didn't invent it. If wobbles didn't copy it, then he created it. regardless of the fact that someone in japan created it before him. As long as the creation isn't copied, it is original. Hence the creator is the creator, the inventor is the inventor. the reason I brought this up is, you lot don't understand that different people can create the same thing, without realizing the other has already created it. hence multiple inventors.
but real talk though, its great that wobbling's getting banned for the community, especially for low level/locals. It's boring to watch, 0 risk/high reward all that shit, but also it will mean that the IC's players that don't wobble and want to use them in more creative ways will hopefully have more light on them and will open up new ideas for IC's
But real talk though, it's great that shine combos getting banned for the community, especially for low level/locals. It's boring to watch, 0 risk/high reward all that shit, but also it means that spacie players that don't shine and want to use them in more creative ways will hopefully have more light on them and will open up new ideas for sapcies
Wobbling just makes the game unfun. It literally just says “oh, you made a single mistake? Well, you don’t get to play the game anymore. I win.” Key words being “you don’t get to play anymore”. Someone on this videos comments made a great comparison of wobbling and OHKO moves in Pokémon. Icy isn’t a great fighter, but neither are a ton of the Pokémon who know moves like sheer cold, or guillotine. The ability to wobble is the ONLY thing that’s makes anyone play icy, in a competitive environment, which is a shame, since they can be fun as hell. Being proud of literally admitting you’re too unskilled to beat your opponent in a legitimate match by wobbling them, is fucking pathetic, plain and simple.
it's no different than getting stuck in any other combo. that single mistake usually gets you setup to die when you play against people good enough to take advantage of your mistakes
Randy Randalman except that you can escape a combo, a combo has an end, and you’re not almost garunteed to die getting caught in a combo at 0% damage. Wobbling is an endless, inescapable combo, barring a mistake on the performers part, or them feeling “merciful.” Combos make a game interesting and fun, wobbling is literally killing someone’s fun because you can, and you feel that you have to win, regardless of the opponent. It’s like going to a casual game of yugioh with some friends and bringing a deck with all 3 god cards and exodia while everyone else is using a normal deck. It just ruins it for everyone else and strokes your ego.
@@Deamons64 You can escape wobble - as shown in multiple examples in the video. Also I don't buy that this strat is so OP like god cards in yugioh. If that were the case, all the top tournament finishes would be IC. It also works on only some characters. Yes it's annoying and looks cheap, but the end result is the same.
Randy Randalman it doesn’t look cheap, it is cheap. And if it was possible to escape from wobbling even remotely consistently, I wouldn’t be complaining. Can you escape, yes, the odds of your escape working and not being immediately punished by getting put literally right back in the wobble, fucking slim. I wouldn’t give a shit about it if it was 1: fair, 2:fun to do/fight against (and it’s neither) or 3: part of the game in a sense outside of high level competitive play, as in would appear in normal strategy guides. Wobbling is NONE of those things, and thus, is on my shit list. And having gone up against basically an entire fucking roster of wobble players during my attempt to get into melee, NOTHING will make me respect wobblers, or like ANYONE who does it consistently.
I think people didn't even understand the bigger picture behind the ban to begin with. It's not that wobbling just instantly makes you lose, it's also that it's not fun to watch. Allowing wobbling in tournaments is like allowing players to just take a pair of scissors and cut their opponent's controller cable. There is no interaction whatsoever in this and it ruins the entertainment. Tournaments thrive off of audiences, they don't just throw money around for fun. Audiences will disappear when the roster is Ice Climbers going for wobbles all the fucking time, it's not fun to watch. If I wanted to watch 1 player while the other waits their turn aka wobbling a dude who can just sit around and watch, I'd be watching a chess match. Fuck wobbling and fuck people who defended it, you know who you are. I really hope for your own sake that you people just said it's balanced to troll everyone because I have serious concerns for your mental health if you actually think an infinite grab into KO is balanced. Seriously, I don't get it. Peach has one advantage which is to stall the game out and that's apparently "forbidden" because it's not fun to watch a Peach stall down the timer under Fountain, yet Ice Climbers were legal for the longest time? These people have double standards man. Either all bullshit should be allowed or none of it. The fact they hold votes and they go 14:4 in favor of banning wobbling shows that there was huge mismanagement or maybe just complete ignorance on behalf of the event planners.
Alright buddy, attack me specifically because I felt like defending it. Such a shame this community is like this. Curse me out all you want. If you aren't going to respect those trying to defend wobbling, but not the players, nobody will respect you in your own argument. Now, on to the argument. Those people have found ways to entertain in those clips. Not to mention, being bored is entirely up to those who are watching. Now if you excuse me, I will not be commenting again.
@@faeire0 I know you said you wouldn't be commenting again, but I wonder what ways to *entertain* were you speaking of? Looks like a bunch of shit to me.
Well most people find Jigglypuff as boring as a slug marathon but should we ban her? No and I feel the same way about every character in fighting games. Unless they actually break the game and make it completely unplayable they shouldn't be banned. The whole "Don't get grabbed" joke has some truth to it too, A good player can learn the Ice Climbers matchup and find ways to beat the climbers. There's a reason why you never have or will see an Ice Climber dominated tournament since there are ways to beat them and once you gain enough experience they can be a breeze to deal with just like every other character. Does this make wobbling fair? No not at all I just think that people blow up how one sided an Ice Climbers matchup can be just like how some people blow up Jigglypuff. Also a competition should never be about the entertainment value it should always be about competition first and entertainment second.
It’s do sad that Wobbles will only be known for Wobbling. He’s arguably one of the most impressive Melee players out there. His actual skill with Icy’s is unrivaled. He can read into the future with some of his grab chain combos and his set ups are insane. He doesn’t NEED to wobble to be amazing. Damn shame this’ll be what he’s remembered for.
Can someone explain why this wasn't banned as soon as it was figured out? This is clearly and exploit that once successfully triggered, wins a stock...
@Gaston Anny It was the slippery slope fallacy. If we ban wobbling do we ban wave dashing? Infinite ledge stalls? Shine? All things that are abused for competitive advantages With that being said. Love Wobbles, fuck wobbling
@@ThatMetroidGuy that has already happened to the extent it can with Fly Amanita and Wobbles, but the sad truth is that ICs really can't match up without the safer grab kill option. Hopefully people will pour resources into other character metas like Luigi or Captain Falcon though at least
Imagine, spending couple hundred dollars to fly out, another couple hundred for the hotel rooms. You show up all pumped and ready to go...you look your first opponent in the eye, shake his hand and wish him good luck. And he picks Ice Climbers.
Where did you go, Mr.Pickle? I liked your videos so much, I even took one of your vaporwave Melee outro songs and disguised it as a rip on my channel. Hope to see you soon.
Same thing as Bayonetta's ladder combos in 4. Idiots argue that an instant win move that requires 0 thought to perform is ok. It ain't. If the only counter is just not to get hit, and it has no wind up at all, that is a serious problem.
1 grab kill from any percent... How was this not banned sooner? It is abusing game mechanics. Melee is fun and all, but the countess bugs and glitches hold it back for me. No thanks.
@@marcar9marcar972 Ic's suck, but that aside, just cuz something isn't seen a lot doesn't mean it's not OP. Jigglypuff is considered potentially the best character in the game, but people don't play melee to make money... they play it for it's speed and sick combos. If you could make the same amount of money in melee as you can in LoL, I'm sure there'd be a HELL of a lot more Jigglypuff mains.
Because they had this "bomb" ban ready to revive the game right before it died, thank god they did it too late and melee it's getting phased out of big fighting tournaments
Commentators always had the dumbest fucking reactions to wobbling, too. "AWWWWW SHIT, HE'S USING THE 0-DEATH TECH EVERY ICE CLIMBERS PLAYER USES!!! EVERY GAME!!!!! 😍😍😍 #Tilted"
I know I’m a little late to the party, but in my opinion at least, wobbling is easily the worst thing about Melee. Considering that Melee is the fastest entry in the series, a glitch that makes your character stop in place and freeze for a few seconds with nothing to break you out of it seems like it should be banned, but no. Not to mention (I’m not saying all ICs do this), the players that say to just “git gud” and “OMGOSH SDIII!!!1!111!11!”, even though they have a setup that kills you off one grab with nothing to do to break out. And finally, it’s cheap as hell. The fact that players will defend this saying that,“It’s all they have”, confuses me because they have MORE THAN THIS but players will not show it because they would rather just be cheap and unfair to their opponents just so they can win. Remember in 2016 when a Pichu player hacked the game and was banned? Remember that he made hit-box and weight changes just so he could win without putting any effort in? If you are an Ice Climbers main, ask yourself this: if win a major by wobbling, are you REALLY that much better than that Pichu player who cheated? Anyways, rant over. I just really hate Ice Climbers’ wobbling (Also, yes, I know it requires some effort to wobble but that doesn’t invalidate the points that I made).
people act like this will kill ice climbers but there are good ice climber players wobbles ,the guy the technique is named after, is one of them that shows how ice climbers can still o to death you very fast without using wobbling and it does is make the game not fun to play and lets people win games by pressing grab
Except that the other combos take ACTUAL SKILL and are fun to watch for spectators. The reason people didn't like wobbling is because it's EASY and NOT fun for anybody. Hard 0-to-deaths earn respect, easy 0-to-deaths earn salt.
I would say the biggest problem of wobbling isn't that much balance but moreso how it's boring and unninteresting, I mean it's a sore to watch, usually only the one doing the wobble has any fun, and it sure feels like the most annoying thing in the game. Most top tiers are good by having a plethora of good or even GREAT moves but wobbling by itself is broken, Icies maybe aren't broken but wobbling sure as hell is. It's a game after all, and wobbling just generates boring matches that all play out the same, it makes the game absolutely less fun and everyone pretty much agrees on it.
@@penguinlrs9393 Puff may be annoying but wobbling feels so much like a glitch, I mean they had to make rulesets so people didn't wobble others forever, it's an infinite. It may not be 100% guaranteed but it's still too consistent... I kinda feel bad knowing newcomers could end up seeing people wobbling, pretty sure it doesn't give a good impression that's for sure. I kinda get the point of not banning, how it can blur the line and start a "ban age" but I also think banning wobbling has some really solid merits too.
@@bruhbruh4329 First, there was no need for the insult ;) second, wobble doesn't either if you are careful enough, and third, i don't support puff ban btw, i even really like seeing hbox playing puff
I mean grabs are fine for >99% of characters in platform fighters, Melee ICs having a broken grab doesn't mean that it's inherently a bad mechanic. I haven't played Rivals in a while, but iirc that game has no block/shield button which is why there aren't grabs.
I can't honestly say I'm the least bit surprised about this. I'm having trouble articulating why, but it starts with the overall history of how and why the playerbase has gone from 12 legal stages to 5, and spirals on from there, meandering between how the fighting game fanbases (in general) are so toxic _about their own toxicity_, and back around to how the Melee scene is just not a growth industry (short version, Smash Ultimate has everything people actually want from the Melee scene and a MUCH lower entry barrier). The only thing I'm surprised about is that this didn't happen long ago, but at the same time I'm really not when I look back at the older scene
I disagree a little while I think that melee has banned a couple things I dont like it certainly is not dying I see the ultimate kids at tournies some who dont understand the nuances and some who kinda do but the overall impression i got from them was respectful but in all honesty comparing ultimate to melee is not what i try to do because they are both great games even if I prefer one over the other. Toxicity is in almost every compettive sport even chess.
"Lmao at the "git gud" argument for wobbling. How about IC's players git gud without It." Gotta be best comment there Is. [Of course, there are IC players who don't wobble, I think]
Emishimaru - Sama The dude that popularized it (Wobbles) is shown in the video and he’s really good as the Icies without the “tech” (if you can even call it that)
The thing that is weird to me is that wobbling, an infinite that's long and boring to watch wasn't banned but freezing the opponent with a IC throw glitch was. You could kill the opponent way faster from a freeze and be done with it
tbh if I was in the situation of those smash players, I would just get so salty at some point, that I would probably accidently punch one of those abusers. I'm really not an aggressive person but things like this are just tipping over the edge
