As I understand the process, you can do this with most metals, you just need the electrolyte to contain a salt of the metal your after. You could use mixed copper metal, for a lower cost experiment, say a nickel coin, which is mostly copper with copper sulfate as the electrolyte with a bit of sulfuric acid added, any contaminates will turn into a slime on the bottom of the beaker, in this case, the nickel metal. Your gold experiment did not have enough contaminates to show up as slim and the electrolyte is still loaded with gold, but it is fully reusable and I'd say this was an excellent video. Try it with 14 k gold and notice the silver on the bottom. Or, you could use a silver salt electrolyte and end up with gold on the bottom. As a note, some metals are ok to deal with as metal, but as salts, they are very toxic, like nickel.
Now you got me sitting here staring it my gold ring on one hand in my titanium ring on the other thinking I don't need these all that badly I guess I could sacrifice them to the god of learning with little regret
If you taper the anode, so it is thinner and narrower as you progress towards the bottom, you should minimize or even eliminate any of the anode falling off.
This reminds me of a school trip to the royal canadian mint when I was young. They used this same process essentially with the only real difference being they used titanium cathodes. That part always stuck with me because when I was a kid titanium was this magical super metal that only nasa and the military used. But good for you sir. You are purifying gold to the same high level of the RCM!!!
Been waiting so long for you to do this. Wow . Do a slow experiment in gold crystal. Anode and cathode in solution, in gold electrolyte. And power it with two dissimilar metals in electrolyte( the lowest volts and amps) for a year. Bam. Then out pops the most beautiful slow gold crystal ever. Just like the Tucson gem show. A masterpiece to sell for a master dollar.
Thanks so much for this video, I have assumed it was possible but had not come across anybody actually doing it. Just a couple of pointers for the electrical side of things that you seem to be a little unsure of: The only absolute value is the current. This will dictate the speed of the reaction, which will determine the properties of the deposition. If all you are after is pure gold to be melted, go fast and go hard. If you are wanting a specific result, (such as a smooth coating) then slow and steady at a lower current will give you what you need. However, there are variables: The surface area of the electrodes, their separation distance, the conductivity and temperature of the electrolyte and the supply voltage is adjusted to accommodate for these variables to deliver the desired current. I believe your current was about right for your setup, any higher and the temperature of your electrolyte would have increased too much. To get the hundreds of amps of the original process, you'd need a much larger volume of solution to keep it from boiling.
So, if it was 220.5g lighter with water than with the chloroauric acid, and there was only 160.5g of gold in the solution, does that mean that the same volume of aqua regia weighs 60g more than the water?? I would not have expected that, I always kind of had an assumption that the acid was less heavy per unit volume than water! 😅
I took calculus in college. No more logs and with respect to whatever function or constant for me! It seems like another language but if anyone takes enough time they can understand what the dude is saying at least somewhat but the answers wont add value or improve your life or anything lol. The crystals grown were pretty sweet! I'm surprised Sreetips wasn't sure he could pull this experiment off! I have extreme confidence in his refining abilities!
I love your channel. I have watched many of your videos. I always wondered if the gold solution weighed more and I've always wondered if you could make a gold cell. Great video.. one day I will do what you do and you've brought me that much closer. Thank you
I suspect the gold was coming out of solution as crystals since you saturated it while boiling. Recrystallization is a common method for purifying a compound dissolved in a solvent. That's probably some pretty pure gold. It might even be more pure than what you'd get by using sodium metabisulfate. You could put some of the electrolyte in the fridge or even freezer (don't actually freeze it) to get more. It might be interesting to see how pure it tests out doing it that way.
You should get some of those little stickers with "Sreetips" on them to stick on the finger of your gloves like those people in the pimple popping videos 😊
Rhode Island police officer. Can't get enough of your content. We appreciate the time it takes to bring it to us. I'm saving some cash for a purchase like this someday. Love to you and your family. Thanks for supporting my brothers and sisters in blue 👍
4 amps seems a bit high for that small of a cathode; it's likely to be a bit less fuzzy if you grow it more slowly at lower amps. I've never done gold, but when the anode and cathode are the same metal with copper or silver, you only need a tiny voltage, 0.1v or less, to push the ions across successfully, and the slower they move, the more ordered the crystal. Of course, Faraday's Law tells you how much longer it will take to move a certain amount of metal over, and it can take a week to get a few grams at low currents.
@@sreetips Yep. The book is concerned with recovery and refining of precious metals. Getting pretty crystals is of zero interest. But Orion is correct, a lower current density will produce larger crystals.
Canadian royal mint used Titanium cathode and gold anode in the same acid bath . In the video he just scraped the gold off the titanium plate . And could be used again . A surprising low voltage and a surprising large ampere . Great work man . I'm a subscriber . The Egyptians and incas did the EXACT same thing . In caves using plant juices . Did i say caves ? I mean megaithic stone constructions . Secret chambers . High science
It looks to me your just dissolving your anode. How much of that crystal is from solution? OK, just keep watching. There seems to be another 140 grams of gold still in solution.
Anode bar was measured 25.7 g at 6:05 in the video. But there was a bit of it left attached to the solder, and another chunk that fell into the container when it separated at the surface of the electrolyte.
I wasn't concerned with how much gold ended up here or there. I only wanted to see if I could do it. And to share it with you. No gold was lost or gained here. I'll get all my gold back.
If you look closely, you'll see that as the anode dissolves, the gold on the cathode is increasing in size. That shot of the anode bar shrinking and falling off was about 25 minutes of footage speeded up 32 times.
I thought the how much here or there would be an interesting question, but it'd require a lot more fiddling around with experiment design and accounting for everything. With how high purity you started from, there probably is not a lot of contaminant to account for.
Nice video, but you have to have gold in solid form to do the electrolysis process. Most of us don't. That's why I'm sticking to 3 refines in AR to get close to the same purity. Cheers
Check mate lol. I realize the reactivity series makes gold the best anode... but you just made a 99.99 pure cathode if I'm not mistaken... à perfect seed that doesn't require cleaning and cannot contaminate.
You don't need a lot. For your anode, you can use scrap karat gold; your cathode can be a length of fine gold wire. The current won't be very high due to the surface areas involved, but it will still work. Keep in mind that this is a refining cell, not an electroplating cell. The deposited gold will not be shiny, as demonstrated by sreetips.
Hey sreetips, not sure if using water in the beaker to measure the difference in weight is the proper way to make an apt comparison due to the difference in density of electrolyte and water. I believe the correct scientifically accurate measurement would be to add the leftover electrolyte back into the beaker and measure from there - someone correct me if im wrong only commenting bc this channel is awesome and i love how accurate it tries to be; great vid!!!
As long as the volumes are the same, it is perfectly accurate. He was measuring weight difference, not specific gravity or density or some other solute/solvent dependent variable.
Enjoyable production values and professional working environment in all of your youtubes. Also, remarkably steady hands in pouring out solutions of pregnant liquor (envy here)... The 'Wohlwill' video above: very instructive. Obviously, you could scale it up by running several of your beaker electrolytic at a time cells in parallel. Some authorities say it's possible to get .99999 purity this way; although this might be two x through the Wohlwill process. Three suggestions for Wohlwill (and not to go against Hoke, but to tweak her just a bit): 1. I would make sure that the stirring bar rotates at slowest possible speed (say, 30 rpm) so as not to raise up any slimes settling at the bottom of your beaker, and have them get trapped by the gold crystals forming at the Cathode; 2. Separating your Anode from your Cathode another few centimeters wouldn't hurt, again to prevent any possible impurities at the Anode. The process will take longer. 3. Hoke recommends 1.5v; a lower voltage will of say even 1v will help slow down the inevitable contamination of your electrolyte after repeated batches, as well as ensuring the purity of your final prodcut. Of course, this will take considerably more time, too.
Awesome sreetips. Like to see new things and especially something like this. Wonder if you put up the current you can make Crystals like found in nature.
@@sreetips Good question. Indeed I assume they where emerged in probably a little more contaminated "electrolyte" I saw people dissolving them out of quartz. Also heard that it has an afinity with Carbon. Carbon probably acts as crystalisation core.
I think it's fascinating that gold is produced during a super nova. Only there do the pressures and temperatures exit to fuse protons into new, heavier elements.
@@sreetips neutron capture can not only produce heavier isotopes but also heavier elements. To me it's also fascinating that nature can dissolve gold and how and where it deposits.. Maybe one day I come and see for myself, Here in the river delta is only dust to find.
sreetips The nuclear accelerator can create gold atoms by slamming subatomic particles into the target. Again, not feasible due to energy issues. I am not sure about the stability of the atom or if the decay is as fast as it’s creation but I know that the experiment was performed successfully.
Thanks Sreetips, awesome video! are you sure that the first bottle precipitate was metalic gold? it looks like gold chloride crystals to me, perhaps the solution became over saturated at room temp and that causes gold chloride cristals to precipitate.
So you've made one bit of gold bigger, whilst making the other one smaller ? Moved gold from one electrode to the other. Not sure this was the point of the experiment was it
Have a very good Christmas and a happy New year. Thanks for all Nice vidio clip. I see forways to follow you in 2022. Take care my friend, and good bless you and your famelimembers💞 Thanks😊
While refining gold would it not be really convenient to just do the nitric boils and then just make an anode of the powder or even make a basket for the powder to use as an anode to eliminate the aqua regia boils?
The only problem is lead. Just traces of it ruins the ductility and malleability of gold. Doing a single refining with aqua regia and adding a little sulfuric acid to precipitate out the lead, then filtering it out will remove 100% of the lead. The anode for the electrolytic gold cell needs to be high purity to begin with.
Wonderful experiment, sreetips! And I subscribed to Dr. Young's channel too! I'm an amateur watch servicer/repairer, and I sometimes re-plate watch cases and bracelets with gold or nickel. We set up a similar electrolytic cell for the plating process.
I had an experience exposing gold concentrates under a 2'x3' magnifying glass. Temperature exceeded melting point. The gold crystallized out of the concentrates very similar. My only conclusion is that the high concentration of UV light caused the crystalline growth. Very neat....!
It's hilarious that you said morel mushroom. That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe because that is one of my 2 favorite hobbies - gold and mushroom picking.
Once again this is fascinating.The gas hood is sounding worse and worse as time passes. Great to see this success. The smile tells a lot. Your video is done and you will be pleased I am sure. It will take a coupe weeks to get it edited and posted my friend. My editor has more than just myself he does videos for.Take care my friend !
You probably had a saturated solution of gold, at the boiling point of the acid. When it cooled the acid couldn't hold as much dissolved gold and the excess is crystallizing out of the solution.
Maybe an Odd Question and perhaps I've mis understand: If you have 100ml solution with 34.1 gram of desolved gold (state your calculation note) + you've desolve 25,5 gram of Pure gold (Anode) and after the experiment on the Kathode you've got 27,7 gram of Pure gold. Where is the remaining 32.1 gramm of gold?? ( Maybe I missed something)...
@ 1:04 - "I'm gonna put it upon the scale and measure... I don't know if it is accurate comparison..." For more accurate measurement I'd recommend using volumetric flask - they aren't that expensive, and they will give much more accurate measurement. Obviously, those are available only in fixed volumes (like, say, 10, 20, 50, 100, 250 ml, and so on), but you can compare weight of a fixed sample, measure the total volume of solution in question using measuring cylinder, and then do the math.
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I found calculations on a website that using displacement highway is graduated cylinder and a scale you could not only determine whether a gold was real but also its purity 10 karat versus 14 karat versus 18 carat Etc which is accurate enough to eliminate the need to buy expensive reagents for testing so yes it most certainly will be differences in density especially at that concentration
Absolutely awesome. I am happy that it worked. My thought as to why they used a higher current power supply in the book was to increase the speed of the process. If you are planning on doing this in the future, you could always melt the high purity gold and reform it for another use in the cell.
The operative value is current density. In the book, the cathode area was vastly larger, so a higher total current is necessary to obtain the desired current density. To keep the current density relatively constant, they use multiple anodes and cathodes. Another factor that affects the current density is the spacing between the anodes and cathodes.
I use the Shor refining unit. I learned to make my Gold Anode in the shape of a wedge and attaching the thicker part to the end of heavy wire so it completely dissolves and doesn’t drop in a piece.
I wonder if you could grow larger crystals by slowing the reaction down similar to the silver cell, still very cool experiment, not many people get to play with pure gold like this
To duplicate Hoke's setup in miniature, you need the proper current density at the specified voltage. The current density will affect what the deposited gold looks like and how fast it deposits. By the way, the volume markings on beakers and flasks are inaccurate. You should use that 100 ml graduated cylinder to measure out your 100 ml of electrolyte, then use it to measure the 80 ml of distilled water as well. For stirring, I would think a bubbler would be better than the stir rod. It would be less likely to stir up any sludge that settles to the bottom of the beaker. Not important for this short experiment, but might be critical if you had a massive anode bar.
Evidently you must have that supersaturated and it can't hold anymore at room temperature in fact it must be a little cooler than when you finished because it couldn't even hang on to everything that it had already
im trying to figure out what the point was in doing this ? . u already had pure gold anode , pure gold cathode and pure gold electolyte . so what did you gain ?
I don't understand why you add the add'l hydrochloric acid to your solution. It already contains over 90% hyrdrochloric acid. You're diluting the acid with more acid . Was this the intention? It seems unnecessary.
The hydrochloric gets consumed when the gold gets dissolved while making the electrolyte. I add additional HCl, because that's what the instructions called for.
Hey sreetips thanks all the extra chemistry tips and knowledge......your pretty badass.......thanks.....I'll have show some of my projects including gold extraction....laters.. C you soon
I have a BS in Math. So, I understood Dr. Young's lingo, but I do not completely understand what he's doing. I only understood the complex analysis and abstract algebra parts. Without looking at his paper and some books, I believe he used algebraic geometry in his approach, but I could be way off. I just know that algebraic geometry has been advantageous in number theory. There's good at math, then there's GOOD at math. I learned the hard way I was in the first group. I have no problem using math as a tool in science and engineering, but understanding math's inner workings or proving them is so difficult for me.
You are correct. 18k is too low for high purity result. Electrolytic refining yields the best results when the anode is already fairly high purity. Same with the silver cell.
Mass is conserved, not volume. The molar density of the auric acid is not the same as pure water. For calculations, we use moles per kg water (molality) instead of moles per liter (molarity). Just saying ….
I wonder if what you had leftover of the anode weighed 1.11 grams. That would be interesting. Does the pure gold that crystalizes come specifically from the Anode or does some of it come from the electrolyte?
Am not getting this process. Normally, the cathode and anode are dissimlar materials. Also I don't know why it has to be heated unless HCl requires the heat to active. I was expecting something like the silver cell. I also wonder if that yellow washoff liquid if it has palladium in it.
Hi Shreetips, about purity why said 0.9997 whatever people that work with gold refining can see by color that gold is 99.99, so is possible use a electrolyte with less gold in solution?
I understand that one of themanide or cathode basically pushes the metal over to the other side to stick to the opposite rod, my question is can you use a carbon rod to do the pushing ?? Does it HAVE to be metal?
Yes, I think the big refiners use titanium cathodes for the gold to plate out on instead of pure gold cathodes. I’ve never heard of carbon cathode, but that don’t mean it wouldn’t work. For electrolytic refining to be successful the anode must be fairly pure to begin with. Otherwise the chloroauric acid electrolyte would become fouled rather quickly and other metals could then contaminate the pure gold at the cathode.
I noticed the noise level in the hood is higher. That's good. More noise comes from more air flow. More air flow means less sulfur dioxide down your throat.
