Great info! I will say it's funny that people act like you have to choose traditional sleep systems or "new technology." Glad you pointed out that they both have pros and cons. I actually usually carry both even if it's not winter. While it's true this means more weight, I'm usually not hiking very far and I keep a couple of wool blankets in my truck anyway. I have an Israeli wool blanket that fits perfectly inside the mss bivy when folded in half which adds a lot more insulation when sleeping directly on the snow. The first time I tried it, I was amazed that I actually was almost hot! If the weather is warmer, all the layers of the mss make a soft bed to sleep on. Throw one or two wool blankets over you and sleep pretty comfortably. The best part for me is experimenting with all of the different configurations. I usually don't pack a tent so it is nice to have that bivy to keep off the moisture. I just wish I had more time to spend outdoors. Thanks for the video!
Great video! On an Army winter exercise I was out on sentry when the "enemy" attacked our bivvy area. Afterwards I got replaced and headed back to my trench. I was surprised to see a lot of white feathers on the ground, like somebody plucked a chicken. I jumped down in our hole giggling and told my buddies about all the feathers I seen. I was then informed that the "enemy" had thrown a smoke grenade into our trench and it landed on my sleeping bag which they threw out of the trench. We hot bagged it for the rest of the night and I got a replacement the next day. Since that night I've disliked down sleeping bags.... :)
we have some great woollen garments here in NZ and woollen blankets are still pretty easy to find , infact most homes would still have one or two. We love our wool, we arent called sheep shaggers for nothing haha
I've never used the entire MSS at one time. "If" I knew I'd need -40 protection, I'd have no problem cinching it down to it's basket ball size and carrying. It still weighs less than a queen size wool blanket of any real girth and be warmer. I generally only use the -10 Intermediate Bag (the black one) in extreme cold. In fact, I have it on my bed every night for 10 years now and use it as a quilt. The 30 deg Patrol Bag (olive) is perfect for 3 season use. I've done the -10 + the bivy for sleeping in the teens without a fire and slept toasty. But using just the -10 bag in a dry sack (10L) still only weighs about 4.5lbs and it does what Tennier claims it does. It will keep you warm down to -10 without a fire. I've done -15 in it alone and was still good. Wool blankets (nice heavy ones) are great, but most people use 'em wrong. they wear them tight to themselves. They're supposed to be used to create an air space in between the user and the blanket, like a shell really and they preserve whatever BTU's your body puts out. They are toasty too. The lighter single sized wool blankets are usually too thin to be effective alone. I also got a sleeping bag liner (light fleece) for use with one. Heck, there have been times that I cheated and ticked off both old schoolers & ultralighters at the same time and used both! LOL They were mad and I warm and I wasn't the one waking up at 2:00 in the morning stoking a fire and losing all that body heat I stored up when I first laid down after a good meal.
Don't know how I missed this one Derek, it's a keeper. Have the MSS as well as wool blankets. Like you say both have their uses and applications. Was perfectly toasty in a hammock on a wilderness canoe trip with -4C temps and very high humidity and a wool blanket on top last year. Did have an under quilt good to about -8C. Toasty warm and snug as a bug despite the convective challenges of a hammock. Don't go anywhere without my woolies! As long as you're protected from the wind wool breathes and keeps you from retaining moisture. At this latitude (above the 50th) I consider it a great 3 season system, winter not so much (especially this one, it's -33C/-27F this morning, March 23rd!? Hopefully you're have spring in the east! All the best from Canada.
Thanks bud. No spring here yet either. Just got another fresh dump of snow (5-6 inches) the other day and another storm coming for Tuesday haha. Wish it would end soon tho.....have a bunch to do outside once its gone. Take care my friend!
I'd like to point out that for some of us bushcrafters, the 'MSS vs blanket' choice was made for us. Some of us, me included, aren't 'military sized' and thus can't use the MSS. So I learned how to get by with a good wool blanket. Great video!
Love rewatxhing old videos, can always pick out a new detail or two from it. Now, i do use a bedroll, and moat of the year its not too bad, but my winter bedroll (im in Wisconsin) is a beast. Very large canvas painters cloth, 2 king size hand loomed blankets, and a 6" twin size memory foam matress topper. It'll keep you toasty in a north woods winter, ive used it to -35°. But... i use a sled to transport it. Just the bedroll is about 40lbs. Its not the lightest option, but its very warm, and thanks to the memory foam, quite comfy. Lol. I'm not 20 anymore, my days of sleeping in the dirt are done. Ill take comfort any day. The point of my rant is to use what works for you, and what your comfortable with. And what the situation allows. Weights not much of a concern when its in a sled pulled by a snowmobile, but its a huge issue if you're carrying it on your back. But the two main things in the hobby is to be safe, and have fun.
Great vid Derek. One thing I never hear mentioned is the need for a wind break outer layer when using wool. Thought you were going there at the end of the vid. I purchased a Boreal Shirt from Lester River. Beautiful garment, but the first thing I noticed was wind passing through the wool. I do not doubt the insulating value of wool, but believe it requires a top layer to-- A) help trap the warm insulated air, as the true trapped air is found within the fibers of the wool and in the weave itself, B) prevent convection from pulling the trapped air from you. As great as the Boreal Shirt is, once you put a top layer over it [like the canvas pullover], the Boreal Shirt is improved 200%. Wool, like the MMSS, is part of a bigger system. Using wool alone is like building a house and having only insulation as your walls and no outer layer. Am I wrong?
i think its called "loppis" actually. "lopis" would be more like "lodis" and its a swedish word for "a drunkard". but i was drinking a beer actually so.. :)
Hey, Sarge. I became a strong believer in wool early on in life. In Army basic training (1977) the wool socks didn't wear out in the summer and breathable. In the winter warm socks, glove liners, and cot blankets. I like my wool. Can be expensive though.
My experience w/the Italian blanket was not as warm, even when I made a capote out of it. Not as much nap or the same thickness as my Whitney or Hudson. LaBaca? seems an interesting alternative. Layers are king. I always bring a hooded wool capote with the blanket. Works for me.
If you get sleeping bags made from Lamilite or Climashield there will not be a problem with condensation forming as it will pass straight through the fabric. In fact you could go to sleep with a totally soaked sleeping bag and wake up dry. Climashield and lamilite are continuous filament materials meaning they do not have to be stitched together to stop from bunching up or stretching or tearing. Stitching forms cold spots in extreme cold. Another benefit is they retain loft which means staying warm. But damn I love wool !!! It is an amazing natural material and I love the feel of it. It all depends on the climate you are in as to which material you want to use.
Saludos amigo Faria. I concur that the MSS never failed. I combine the MSS with a fleece blanket and work perfectly for me. Gracias for another outstanding review.
Great video Bro.. I have that same Filson Wool blanket.. and it's great. I've used it a few times.. but I clearly need to get out in the woods more. I also have a bag liner.. it says it'll add 15 degrees of warmth. I am thinking that... along with my blanket. I hope to be comfortable. Thanks for the video.
@ northof50now.... You are spot on my friend. Actually prepping to do a clothing vid that follows these last two now haha. Had some questions about my clothing (even though I have done a video in the past on it)......so shooting it today ; ) thanks bud!
+The Woodsman School and Guide Service if you want the best quality wool blankets dirt cheap we used to have a wool mill here in Australia called Onkaparinga you can find onkaparinga blankets dirt cheap here in Austraila in second hand shops i realize thats no good for you but you can find them on ebay for reasonable prices $20-$40
You can get a head cover from the Canadian Arctic military sleep system. Keeps your head outside and condensation outside as well. The MSS is very good obviously but very extreme cold is the only downside and keeping the head outside fixes that issue.
I often have to get up at night to potty and its troublesome getting out of a sleepsystem. If I layer my blankets . I can get in and out better. In a sleeping bag I feel like I am smothered. I have a hard time breathing with something covering my mouth and nose.
I use the bivy and a blanket or two all the time. the full mss I only use for cold weather. One blanket tri folded under me, inside the bivy, and the second, I do the diagonal fold bedroll styl. If it gets chilly, I add a sweater and pants, or use the bottom blanket the same as the main blanket.
absolutely nothing worse than waking up to quarter sized holes in your mss bivy until you follow them down and realize the ember burned through several layers..... SOL Wool for the Win. Ive seen some guys say to wrap up as tight as possible, just shows they dont have any REAL experience with sleeping in blankets in my eyes. Tenderfoots lmao thats on par with building a huge fire yet sleeping 15 feet from it haha. as always dirt time truly is the way to go. i have a hard time sleeping in my wool blaket too in winter ill admit, but its because im too hot ; )
Hey Sarge, I'm really considering either the patherfinder or the lebarca blanket. I noticed that the lebarca is a bit smaller than the pathfinder. The prices are quite comparable so i'm not worried there. Did you notice a difference in the sizes while using them? Thanks!
I know this is an old post on the video, but I thought I might offer up an option for a good 100% wool blanket. It is the Ektos 66" x 90" 100% wool blanket available on Amazon for $48, or thereabouts. I have 5 of them and they are awesome blankets. I also have a Hudson Bay 4 point blanket I picked up used off eBay. I am here to tell you, the Ektos holds its own against the Hudson Bay blanket considering the HB will cost you about $500 compared to the $50 for the Ektos. It is a 5.5-pound blanket and comes in dark navy blue, check it out.
I have two green army wool blankets. They are thin. I do not know if they are government issue or not. I would think they are two thin to be good. One seems cold even inside, my wife keeps the house cold. I guess I could double up on them. they are smaller than any blanket you show here. I do like how they breathe. So do you think the US army blankets are any good for this? I noticed you did not show them.
They typically are not...but, as I mentioned.....I slept on top of mine mostly as the fire was key. So they could work if you have a proper fire, clothing etc etc
At some point I'm gonna get up there and take a class,,,,I'm in the process of moving but when I get this out of the way I'll make it up there,,,,great video my friend.!
sargefaria Moving up in the mountains of SC,,,,,lower Appalachia,,,very nice,,,,maybe after I take a class I can have you down,,,,lot of hiking and wilderness. Kephart Country.!!
Not very good at estimating amounts of wood brother but......probably most of the pile I had in the last video. I had about half that on the first night and I ran short at about 4am
I agree 100% about the mmss system and fire. Im new to bushcraft and my brother in law and i went out camping for 3 days. I took my mmss and was atleast 15ft from the fire and a darn hot ash landed on the winter part and melted the crap out of it. Sucked bad
I don't see much advantage to the wool blanket vs sleeping bag (MSS or other) in the weight and compressibility equation. For a wool blanket that will be as warm as an equivalent sleeping bag system, it is going to really bulky and really heavy. I agree that with you that the 100% wool blanket has the advantage when used with a fire and that the sleep system you choose is dependent on your skill level, your environment and the temperatures you expect to operate in. For me I would take my Wiggys sleeping bag or a MSS over a wool blanket.
great vid got a question. Im having trouble keeping my feet warm while in the tree stand in real cold mornings im wearing wool socks from walmart but my toes still get numb rest of body ok. Any suggestion.
I realize I'm replying to a 7 yr old comment but maybe it will help someone else. Feet typically get cold because of sweat. You will lose heat 25 times faster wet vs dry. Try using antiperspirant before putting your socks on
To your experience with the MSS is your experience my experience is with the old Korean War Arctic bag and I slept in 3 in of water in Sub-Zero weather I tried synthetic zero degree bags and they fail are 20 degrees
Great video Sarge! I picked up my first wool blanket a couple months ago. It's a twin sized Hudson Bay blanket from LL Bean. I placed a really low-ball $40 bid on it on Ebay. Much to my surprise I actually won, and I was even more surprised when I checked the price on the LL Bean website. $50 (with shipping) wasn't bad for a blanket that LL Bean is currently selling for $380!!! (A week later and with another low-ball bid I picked up a dull, but otherwise like new, Buck 120 General 7.5" fixed blade for $25. My good luck on Ebay has probably been used up for the next couple of years at this point!) I have a question for you though. I've been seeing a lot of alpaca wool blankets becoming available lately. Do you know anything about those? Are they as good as virgin sheep's wool? Better?
Nice man! I haven't had any personal experience with alpaca but here it is just as good, if not better.....and half the weight. Again, no personal experience yet tho
illyounotme Thanks, I'll look into it right away! With the major ice storm that about to hit this part of the country I may actually be needing my wool blanket soon!
Just a word on sleeping bags more for the people just getting started. Temperature ratings and cool/cold weather. The rating on them says -10 C means it will keep you alive at that temp.... it does not mean you will be comfortable. Also for me personally I find that the mummy bags are far warmer than the ones with zippers... you can lose a lot of heat through the zipper. That being said if you just like going camping in summer when it is nice out you don't need to shell out all that money for a high end bag also if you try using one of those cold weather ones say that are rated to -40 C in the summer when the coldest at night you may see is 10 C you will get overly hot in it. That also more or less explains why blankets are a better option. They are far more versatile in all weather conditions and compared to the high end bags the are cheaper.... pluss with a queen size you can easily fit two peeps under it you can't do that with a mummy bag.
LMAO I had a Lt find out the hard way about those temp ratings back in the day. We were out in late winter training cadets. The Lt was bragging about his expensive sleeping bag and how it was rated to -20. Of the three of us in our shelter the Lt, another civilian instructor and myself he was the only one that did not use the arctic mummy bags that we and all the cadets drew from stores. Guess who didn't have a good night? We even had him in the middle... right in front of the fire. Just for reference the ones we used were down filled double mommy bags with a removable cotton liner.
I'm extremely disappointed with my pathfinder blanket. They are now $190. That is way overpriced for health in this is. I can get the 80% wool blankets at the Army Surplus Store for 25 bucks. If I saw two of them together, I have the same thing as the Pathfinder blanket. Not quite a hundred percent wool, but close.
great vid on sleep systems. what i find works for me is, i ditched the intermediate bag of my mss and replaced it with a wool blanket. i have been using it over top of the rest of the mss and can be closer to the fire if need be. knock on wood, no holes and toasty warm in the last couple years in michigan winters..
Wow Derek, this video is right on time. I recently bought 2 "Italian Officer's Blankets" for $50 each. They were advertised from a fairly popular surplus site as 100% wool. They look just like yours, light greenish with the tan stripes. Do you know a way to tell if they are actually 100% wool? They stink really bad from the mothproofing, but I guess that could be a trick. Thanks for the great videos. I really like the way both you a Dave just keep it real.
Sarge.. IMO wool blankets are really hard to beat. Use them single or with another wool blanket, or with a canvas sleeping bag. Where did you get the Labacca wool blanket? Thanks for the video. Shad
For the amount of insulation provided, the MMS is much lighter than a blanket. If you get enough blankets to equal the temperature rating of the MMS, they will weigh a lot more and be much bulkier. You can dry out a sleeping bag by airing it out in the sun, even in winter. You don't need a fire. The MMS is very old technology. These days you can get a -25F bag for about 3.5 lb.
One of the great features of wool is that it will still keep you warm even when it gets wet. I can't think of another fabric that has this quality. Shad
When you compare any material, wet versus dry against itself, dry Always wins. Wool will lose only a small percentage when it gets wet. Other material loses almost all of their insulating value when wet.
They BOTH have their pros and cons for sure. I have said this many times and will again.....let ONE hot spark from your fire drop on the MSS, and its done!.....not the case with a wool blanket, just say'en
Wool for example loses about as much insulation as fleece when wet, and it is a substantial amount. If your sleep system or clothing is thermally neutral in the environment, getting it wet will put you in serious trouble. I'm not sure why anyone would use a sleeping bag next to a fire, unless it is not properly rated. A properly rated sleeping bag should keep you warm at night without the need for a fire, and it will do it at about the 10th of the weight of comparable blanket system. A spark landing on a MSS bag, or most other bags for that matter will create a tiny hole in the outer shell. It is a nuisance, but that's about it. Wool blankets are nice if we are doing historical recreation. It is fun to play around with them, but they are seriously outclassed by modern sleep systems. In fact, they were outclassed even in the early 1900s. Scott carried fur bags to the pole, and Mallory used down bags for his Everest attempt. Both Kephart and Kreps talk about how it is not practical to carry enough blankets in winter to keep warm.
Rats! No wonder why I freeze, my skill level is so bad I use a bed sheet...LOL. Your 2 cents??? Yeah that's worth $37.50... glad you explain the MSS vs wool blankets. Training is the key here. BTW your 6pt.er just bit the dust lol... Great vid Sarge! Layeriing clothes in the cold environment is a point needing to be made. Don't go out in the winter with nylon windbreakers and expect not to get cold..
sargefaria That because we old folks have short term memories and need the instruction pounded into our head. You know with us being thick headed and such...
You can buy a great used military sleep system or high tec sleeping bag for under $200 and stay a whole lot warmer and dryer and break wind than any blanket. JMHO.
that was a great vid sarg seen the chat last night but internet went down as I got the link ill try it again but im a cold sleeper and bags some time don't help but great work
Don't want to sound like a dick or nothin' :) but how do even you use a blanket this size? I'm thinking it's too small for both a taco wrap or just a normal cover. I'm 6'3 and 240lbs and I end up either wrapped but only chest height or covered but with a "hole" in front of my chest (and my shoulders aren't even that wide). I had to buy a king size (96x108) to be able to wrap myself properly.
The difference between the MSS and a wool blanket is with a wool blanket you need a fire. I have never found a wool blanket to be that warm, not skills just facts. Thickness equals warmth. Though I do have to admit my 100% OD army blanket, over 25 years old has a warmth with lost of insulation over it. Animal fur retains wrmth. Call Ed Wilde if you want to know wool blankets (*00%$+, LOL.) or DC.
I really appreciate your review on blankets sorry I have a cold so most people don't understand there's different qualities of wool blanket and throughout time the wool blankets have gotten thinner because house have gotten warmer and better heating systems in the houses so wool blankets got thinner like the Army blankets got thinner they're meant for indoor use they can be used Outdoors but they're not recommended as an outdoor item the old one more one will blank it is not the same as the modern war or Vietnam Korea blanket if you look at a early 1800s Trappers blanket like you have there which is several inches sick compared to a modern one and I really get angry when I see these people on here killing people use wool blankets and people going by these thin wool blankets like a Pendleton Woolen Mills blanket and try to use it Outdoors may freeze and then people like me search and rescue have to go get them
