I was working at the Vauxhall (Holden to you) factory in Luton many years ago, when a fork lift truck drove over a co-ax cable carrying the build data to the assembly line. Crushing the cable corrupted the data. A hatchback arrived at a saloon body, a diesel engine arrived at a petrol SRi car, and the assembly line ground to a halt. Now THAT's what I call corporate confusion!
Amazing that wasn't considered as a possibility when the cable was laid. Management probably tried to save a few $$$ by not installing it in an overhead cable tray.
Ahhh Luton. My dad worked for Vauxhall in Luton until 1976. Used to ride a bike from Houghton Regis to the factory and back every day including in snow. Now live in Australia.
Presumably the mild hybrid sh!t box was more $'s than the non-mild hybrid sh!t box. So at least he should have the $'s difference refunded AND then some free servicing to compensate for the wait and the fact they didn't provide the goods he wanted. Or, just take them to the cleaners if you don't want the non-mild hybrid sh!t box provided.
Depreciation? Resale value for it's not what it's meant to be ,imagine trying to sell it ,I bet the dealer wouldn't value it as the Semi hybrid would they ? Negotiation might be needed to obtain a guarantee for trade in value in say two years on a suitable hybrid ,a real one ,and definitely the free service ,as the value of the servicing is jacked up anyway ,the service parts are marked up greatly and aren't these models Nissan engined ?
The free servicing is compensation, but I'd suggest that the model with the tech is more expensive than the model without? So I'd then also expect a refund of the difference in price as well.
As someone working for a car manufacturer at head office. Seek legal advice and tell the dealer/manufacturer you will sue if they do not refund all the extra cost.
It is missing a key reason for.purchase so they can either refund or replace it with the correct vehicle as it isn't suitable for purpose. I wouldn't even entertain partial refunds for supplying the wrong equipment.
@@SurmaSampo true. There’s those two alternatives. But it’s always good to have a plan B. That way everyone feels as if they have won and more readily to give ground.
@@xr6lad Plan B is to get the regulator involved rather than to accept a deficient product that doesn't meet your needs. You wouldn't accept this sort of compromise with any other equipment in this price point if it literally doesn't do the job you bought it for. You don't buy cars to make friends with the dealer and they certainly are not selling it to make friends with you. I have known enough car dealers to understand that it is about the sale.
I hope Johns' videos about the ACCC are helping people learn where they stand when comes to consumer rights. It helped me with a very nice wristwatch that was a complete lemon and just kept breaking over a period of two years. I mentioned consumer law to manager of the jewelry store it was purchased from and she was VERY concerned about it. The situation was sorted over the course of a weekend!
My wife had a C200 from Gosford Mercedes and the radiator failed allowing oil into the transmission. It was two years out of warranty and Mercedes stepped in and fixed it all. We went on to buy another new C200 because the service was so good.
I had a Opel Astra for 140k miles. Used an independent garage for those 10 years. Service was amazing and best part is they spotted my radiator leak before it was a problem😮.
@TurnipstalkIronically as a brand that “prides” themselves on quality and “growing old” with the vehicle… they don’t want to offer any company support outside of warranty, even when service bulletins are in action. Yet other manufacturers are more than willing to enact service bulletins or warranty repairs outside of warranty, even when the vehicle hasn’t been serviced at their dealership or serviced at a dealer at all.
I totally agree. Some of these mild hybrids are paired with tiny turbo engines with far far far worse economy than the 1.6 or even 2.0 l engines from previous generation’s. Be aware ……
That is 3 oil changes & filters at the most...maybe a brake fluid change (if they do it in reality) and one air filter... wear & tear is at the owners expense. (@ Mercedes cost $600 total guesstimate)!
My suggestion is that old mate should make a good will, counter offer, as follows: old mate keeps driving the car, complete with free servicing so that he can maintain his mobility for the time being, this will give 3 prongs the time it needs to assemble and deliver the car that was actually promised. When the promised car is handed over, 3prong gets the wrong car back with lots of kms and you get the brand new zero kms, correct model with the original factory warranty. My attitude is that if you’re a big company and your illustrious, big company QA system fails , you should be prepared to incur some costs and provide some compensation to your customers when you let them down. If 3prong doesn’t come good, old mate should lawyer up and stick it to them plus costs.
John, Mercedes did nothing wrong, it's just that they really amped up the mildness of the system. It's so damned mild, it got a sponsorship from Marlboro.
Thanks for sharing this video John because there maybe others who might be in the same situation. You had great advice that will be of benefit to your viewers. Well presented and explained 😊
All Australian distributors of any products hand-pick what models & features they want to handle. So if I were the stung dude, I'd hang out for a brand new replacement which is in fact a Mild Hybrid & watch them splutter.
I do not have knowledge of Australian law, but it is possible that signing an agreement not to take legal action without being fully informed of the consequences of doing so would render the agreement unenforceable, and court action possible. As an example of this in practice, in the UK employers are advised to offer to pay for independent legal advice for an employee as to the consequences of accepting a compromise agreement in employment disputes.
My wife and me have one each of these mild hybrid cars and are under no illusion that they're anything other than a fancy stop start system. What I've found from driving my car (a Volvo) that has the version where the engine will switch off when coasting at speed is that you can save fuel, particularly on long gentle motorway down hill sections and that in turn does improve the mpg significantly BUT only if you deliberately make an effort to coast, otherwise the slightest touch of the pedal and the engine is back on with no chance of it going off again for some time. My car however has been a bit of a lemon and whilst it's been in being fixed several times this year, I have been lent other similar Volvo models with the same basic engine and the same "mild hybrid" system yet a different gearbox that doesn't allow engine off coasting - because they use two different ones depending on vehicle spec - and on those there is zero benefit at all that i could see, given on the same roads doing the same commute I was seeing mid 30s Mpg vs low 40s on the ones with the coasting feature.
@neilgorin1037 Wouldn't mild hybrid tech (like the Toyota system, not PHEVs that carry a sizeable weight penalty from the bigger EV motor/battery) come into it when operating in a lot of stop/start city traffic conditions? I think John has got it wrong poo poing MHybrid... one shoe does not fit all usage cases. I am not convinced PHEV is the ideal or better solution for that matter, if you only want one car. On longer drives, say out of town, when the battery runs out, the fuel consumption goes through the roof because the ICE or "range extender" is working a lot harder lugging around an extra 300kg dead EV powertrain. Or charging it while you drive. If you mainly drive within the electric range (and have offstreet parking... and can fully charge overnight, because the battery is not too big..) sure a PHEV could work for that niche usage. In my situation where I'm driving 70km urban per day, in heavy traffic at times, unless the PHEV had more than that range I would take a MHybrid and take advantage of the electric low speed running. I would think that is what MHybrid were designed for to begin with originally.. a smarter use of energy (for a wider use of driving conditions). The sailing or coasting feature was introduced on regular cars years ago.
Thank John for your caring attitude to we the consumers. I've or my family has taken 'CHOICE' magazine since 1952. There is no way that such consumer advocates can cover cars. Thanks again.
I had a similar experience with car buying. I ordered a new car years ago and the dealer had a list of all the options and we checked off all the boxes we wanted. One feature we checked was not on the car when we went to pick it up. The dealer said we could take it or leave it because the manufacturer changed the option packages after we ordered the car.
once again you nailed it, I wouldn't part with one single cent until I seen that the Mercedes in front of me was exactly what I was paying for. quite often there are several different sub variants of the same model. the best way is to check the serial numbers and make sure they match the spec sheet. it's a bit like playing spin the bottle ,are you going to screw the office girl or is the sales person going to make your ass bleed.
More than 50 years ago my dad informed me that petrol was the cheapest part of motoring, after I'd put 5 gallons in his EJ ute and was looking for a pat on the back! I suggest that nothing has changed, after all, it's the governments, oil companies and retailers who can least afford for us the NOT afford to nuy the product.
I brought a car with what some companies would call a mild hybrid system, not knowing it could be classed as mild hybrid. All it did was cut the voltage down to 12.5v from 14.5v once the battery was sufficiently charged, and then ramp it back up on overrun. After a couple of years the battery rarely got to a sufficient level and the system was always running at 14.5v trying to put extra energy into the battery. It seemed to ruin the fuel consumption quite a bit. I think for cost and the environment it would have been much better to have had a normal charging regime and a standard battery that would probably last the life of the car (I only tend to keep them for 10 years) I believe that the charging parameters would have been set that way to squeeze the vehicle into a lower tax bracket. Needless to say, by the time the vehicle was 5, I replaced it as the rest of it was getting suspect to. I will never buy another vehicle from that manufacturer again.
Watching the volts on my R172, that is how it charges mine... Only on brisk cross country roads in Sport mode, does it charge the battery. Where as a 500 mile motorway drive in Eco mode, does not charge the battery...!! Lucky I use a CTEK 👍
The new hilux in NZ being called a mild hybrid. Supposedly in Straya it’s not allowed to be called that. Seems the specs are similar to the old model. Do the electric parts have any connection to the drivetrain?
In the US the Tacoma (our different Hilux) has the i-Force Max hybrid and it gives power on take off and a slight gas mileage increase because of that. I wish I could have a Diesel Hilux here in the US, but alas there was a tax on chickens in the 60s here that put a tax on imported light trucks so Toyota had to make a "new" truck here.
I normally agree with most of what you say, but think you are maybe comparing the main MB MHB system with some others. Having said that I had a 2018 e class which was an in between. It had the MBH system without the 48v battery, in other words it would go into 'Glide Mode' when foot lifted off the gas but with no MBH drive would immediately start to drop speed and could therefore only coast for a short distance unless downhill. I now have a full MBH system and can't get any higher milage than with the in between version. But what I have noticed is that I get that higher milage more often, resulting in a higher average MPG overall. You also have to be aware that the MHB system on Mercs only really works in ECO mode. Outside of ECO mode you only have the effect of an additional instant spooling turbo charger to share the call for power with the actual turbo and engine. Which of course does help the MPG but as you say that is hardly noticable out of ECO Mode. But what the MHB regen. system does do in all driving modes is reduce break wear as well as significantly increasing breaking power. I quite often don't even have to break at all in many instances where I would normally. Also to say the MB system is just a starter-alternator in one unit is selling it a bit short. The flywheel plays the part of a rotor/armature with a bank of field coils around it. This makes for easier starting and less drain on the battery with no gear ring or pinion to wear out and when you lift your foot from the gas pedal (in ECO) the MBH system cuts the engine and applies power to the field coils around the flywheel keeping momentum going for much longer than would otherwise be the case and because the starter is the flywheel itself engine restart is undetectable. What is a total waste of time and just a gimmick to keep up with BMW and now every other make is the 'stop-start' which actually uses more fuel than without it. Also to realise any real benefit of the MBH system don't go for a small eco-green engine believing that the MBH system will compensate it wont as you rightly say. I went for a normal 220 diesel and the MHB drive does seem to compliment that.
They do have these laws but has anyone else ever tried to contact fair trading or fair work Australia? I've found that's worse than the offences you're calling about.
The whole "free servicing" thing is the same as when you're issued a store credit in lieu of a refund; the store still makes a healthy mark-up when you receive redeem your credit for a new item, rather then handing the whole lot back to you as a full cash refund . So let's say that 3 yrs free servicing is worth $3K at the Merc dealership. Their actual cost over 3 years will be more like a hundred bucks or so wholesale cost for oil & filters and paying a 1st yr apprentice for a couple of hour's work at minimum wage, so the total net cost to Mercedes is absolutely nowhere near the $3K, so therefore the compensation they are paying you is actually peanuts.
'Not fit for purpose' is a phrase that springs to mind and, the moral of the story is, don't buy from the 3 pronged suppositry. The waiver letter would come in very handy in the toilet.
How long did the punter own the GLA200 before finding that the mild-hybrid system he paid for wasn't on it? Seems like he would be showing it off to his friends the day he took delivery. It's simple enough to pop the hood and look for the big alternator and metal-cased 48V battery. Upon opening said hood and not finding the expected hardware, I'd be back to the dealer straightaway and demanding a full refund. He must not have cared that much.
Bit like the Mercedes "COMAND" system that was sold as optional on some 2016-2018 cars. It has now ceased to work entirely. It was based upon Windows 7 Embedded and the security certificates within Windows 7 expired. Meaning that it could not communicate with the servers online and phone home. Rendering it dead. Merc have not issued any patches or updates for this, COMAND is just dead. So if you paid £720 for it as an optional extra. Tough......
If this fella has paid more for the car in the first place and the car he’s received is the cheaper version. Then isn’t this fella really paying for his own three year “free”service that merc are offering?
Hi John, yet another great video! I have to say I am rather puzzled that your Merc owner has got in this situation. When he collected the car did he not notice the car did not have hybrid badges on it? Let me say I work in a car dealership (Yeh I know my place in hell is reserved!) over here in the UK. When someone comes into the dealership and orders a car the paperwork fully details what car they have ordered e.g. Anymake Supacar GT 1.2 Hybrid. When the car is delivered to the dealership it goes through the Pre Delivery work, one of these checks is to make sure the car delivered matches the car ordered. If the car does not match the order the dealer gets on to the manufacturer and finds out what has gone wrong. When the car is handed over the salesman goes through all the paper work with the customer the goes through all the features to make sure the customer is happy. In your case none of this looks to have been done or if it has why did the customer accept delivery of a car that was not the one he ordered?
The transformation of Mercedes Benz from the pinnacle of engineering excellence to the mass defrauding scheme it is now is one of the most heartbreaking stories in manufacturing history. The fact that they are now so deeply partnered with Nissan/Renault, which is the most corrupt and mismanaged car company there is, tells you everything you need to know about their values. I really think that it should be a legal requirement for car makers to disclose what percentages of components in a car come from which manufacturer in their marketing materials. Doing otherwise is fraud in my opinion. Imagine if Mercedes Benz were required to say "A-Class - 65% Renault" on their ads?
Hey John. Sydney news tonight about Chinese ev coming to Australia . Have seen pictures on u tube of the acres of car in China they can’t get rid of.Now we have no car industry in stralia seems like deal done forChina to dump all there cars they can’t sell elsewhere here. Thoughts…?..great channel, keep up the good work. Thankyou.
How about just reading the order specification before signing it? It is all there specified. And for the dude in Austrailia, read the order spec before going legal.
As has been said the extra cost of the hybrid must be refunded ………… Thank you for your mail and after consideration with my advisors I will be happy to accept a 5 year free MB dealer servicing contract on this car, “regardless” of the owner.
By signing the waiver, you give up any recourse in any ability to hold them responsible for selling you something that was not what you believed it to be. John recognizes this.
I know someone who actually worked on this design can't go into too much detail but in the end theres alot of models that did better mileage without the hybrid system
I have a 2024 Hyundai i30 with the 1.5 T-GDI MHEV 160ps with a manual and I like the MHEV system. It's not magic but you have a lot of power from the start. I drove the non MHEV variant (Kia Ceed) with the same engine and you can tell the lack of electric assitance from the get go. And no, it's not a hybrid car in my eyes but it's a good assistance to the petrol engine. The only side effect I don't like is the lack of a spare wheel, however that might be from Hyundai's implementation as Mazda 3 has both MHEV and a spare.
I find it strange that the customer wasn't taken care of properly if there was a mistake- ie cash refund for difference in price or swap car for actual mild hybrid . Just hearing this story puts me off ever dealing with MB .
Hi John, love your videos. Keep them rolling. Could you please give me your professional opinion on the Suzuki S Cross? An updated model is due early next year with updated safety tech. Thank you.
3 yrs seevicing is $3200. Well worth the omission of the crap MH system. The cheeky buggers. There is a 2024 MY24 Gla 200 and a 2024 My25 Gla 200 (mhev). So the OP should have asked for a MY25
First thing I would do is go over the fine print in the bill of sale. If the feature is written on that document, then you got them by the balls. Full refund. Buy from a different manufacturer.
Why don't people just buy the biggest engine they can get in a model drive it economically.... so big engine running low revs.... worked for me over the last 30 years
Because the bigger engines are more money and a bunch of features all packaged together that can't be separated. And more bits that can break over time. I would have bought a LCI E63 650i if it came in a base spec with a manual. The 4.8 N62 is a beast of a motor, its a bit dodgy but I reckon I could tame its issues with known preventative maintenance. But the 650i spec comes packaged with a bunch of unnecessary "active" garbage like swivel headlights and variable steering, whose modules go bad regularly and cost thousands to source and code. That's what puts me off
@@greebj then buy a 1998 V8 GLI falcon. Big engine.. no tech. 5.0 engine, manual windows, ABS is your only driving ad and it's 1,800 RPM at 100kph. Problem solved. You can fix it with a hammer and parts are very very cheep.
@JimboXX78 I was jestingly using Fleetwood Mac as an example of a band more traditionally listened too by people of John's generation, in my own personal, stereotypical view of the universe. No artists are bad. Except for rappers.
My Ford Focus 1.0 mhev ecoboost feels as powerful as my previous Focus 1.5 ecoboost, but returns 5.5L per 100km instead of the previous 6.7, so there's that 😉
All the friends I have with hybrids (various makes) rarely use the battery motor, in fact they have no choice, the ECU decides. Also they never charge properly if at all on the move. What a total JOKE.😅 Mitsubish and Vauxhall are just 2 examples
😂😂 Jeez, i got six stars worth of goodness..a 79 450 slc, bit of rust in sill, more style than the entire 2025 range, great burnouts🍻🍻, and a 2004 clk 320..last year of disc nav👍👍 leather, wood radio heat, V6 auto, bugger all tech, and 200 kph is fast enough....service by any idiot.... serves em right!!!😉👍🍻
Their "goodwill" of three-years of servicing normally comes as a standard offer from MB dealerships. How much more did he pay for the promised hybrid? That amount should be refunded as the minimum compensation.
I just came up with a real hybrid that would sell. You take your typical sport saloon or coupe, keep manual tranny, add battery and electric motor....except electric only powers front wheels under low load or slipping conditions. Ta da! You have a real ICE car with no downsides, is AWD and gets great fuel economy around town or short hwy trips. Buttons to enable/disable electric motor. I'm smarter than every single car manufacturer in 5 secs of thought.
I recently discovered that my car is a very, very mild hybrid. Didn't know anything about that feature when ordering. I'm now worried that they will be demanding further payment.
If this happened in the USA, here is my guess at how it would have come about. "We need to move more of these vehicles, they are not selling well enough and we are losing money.. Let's add the word "hybrid" to the marketing material to help sales. If the customer notices that it's not actually a hybrid, , we can offer them a free service contract. Meanwhile, we will have moved the vehicles off the lots."
it's a spectular own goal by MB in writing to the owner of said vehicle with their admission. They've admitted their fuck up in writing!!!!!! Owner should just read the ACCC legislation and then email MB and ask for a replacement vehicle, with Hybrid OR a full cash refund. Does the existing vehicle have a hybrid badge? You don't need to go to a solicitor, but In your email cc in the ACCC.
Tell them to piss off with the servicing. I recently had my GLC 65 serviced by an independent mechanic. Air filters have never been changed (but paid for). Filthy, with build manufacture date of 2018. Same with cabin filters.
I have got a sad tale to tell. A couple of years ago I bought a second-hand 2006 Citroën C4 coupé with the 92HP 16 valve turbo diesel engine. I am highly disappointed with this car as the official fuel consumption is 5.9 litres per 100 kilometers and this little bugger only drinks 4.1 litres for the same distance. I also expected it to break down on a regular basis but it runs like a Swiss sewing machine. Do you think I should try suing Citroën for not living up to its reputation? All joking aside, it's the best car I've ever had and it's so amazing to have a car which truly exceeds one's expectations. Besides, it's the beautiful one with the split rear screen and the spoiled. You can spot it a mile off in a busy hypermarket car park so no chance of not finding it. Hopefully, it will see the end of the EV fad 😁😁😁😁😁 PS: I took a trip to Nancy in France a couple of days ago and saw more Teslas in an hour than I'd seen in the past 5 years. 6 in total, so they haven't taken over yet.
One question that I have never found an answer to is, if one is entitled to a full refund on a vehicle purchased on a basis such as this, and the vehicle is financed, does the full refund cover any or all pay out figures of said finance, registration and insurances payed by the customer? Also, could someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Ineos Australia boss was a "big honcho at Land Rover/Jaguar." Not the best credible person if it's true.
But signing something like this can constitute a settlement of the dispute you raised, and you could be estopped from raising the issue again just because you later realised you were entitled to a bigger compensation remedy.
@@greebj ...estoppel?.. not sure...arguably a breach of the act by the trader here... misrepresentation...hard to get out of that one...buying new cars hey, what a nightmare. Keep the old clangers going that's the go.