World of Warships- Its Been Almost 6 Months Since They Were Nerfed, Are Submarines Still A Problem?? 

They were both buffed and nerfed so petty much status quo. DD should be the biggest threat to subs but they are the lowest. That in itself points to a major issue

I think you summarized it very well Sealord. The submarine life of WoW is a bunch of boring games, and then you get that one where all the cards are in your favor and you just traumatized the enemy team. That is just my experience playing and facing subs

The Massachusetts ASW range sux balls, I see a sub and switch to the other flank in utter frustration of being helpless.

My royal pain is when I am engaged in a surface duel and get pinged. Hate trying to either avoid the sub or engage the sub with ASW while not being blapped by said surface ship.

haven't had any issues since i uninstalled the cash grab. gotcha game

What is still broken in my opinion is the ping locations. It's just somewhere random...

The Submarines made me play the game again. And not only that, it has become my main game to play again. I just love to play them and I love to hunt them.

The 5km 'shotgun' comment you made is something that I thought as well, and something that people don't realize. I'm hardly an authoritative voice, but I feel like anyone who's touched a submarine for longer than a few games would quickly realize that in most situations, 3km doesn't mean 3km, but more like 4km+ due to that often times, you're torpedo'ing someone that's sailing into you, so that distance is partially being covered by the ship itself. Of course, the opposite applies if you're torpedo'ing someone sailing away, but that's less common, and in that case, the other player has more time to react since he's sailing away from the torpedoes, so there's some give and take there. As for the sub-player viewpoint as you mentioned; yeah. Normal Guy of the North mentioned that they're best used as standoff/snipers, and standoff does sound like the best way they're to be used. Because otherwise they're basically Torpedo DD's that sacrifice a bunch of utility and survivability (ASW Bukkake plus AoE damage, alongside smaller health pools) for stealth. Torpedo DD's are the better pick most of the time.

I think the ONLY thing people still bitch about when it comes to subs any more is the FREQENCY of the PINGs. That spam of Pings will never stop being annoying. But yeah.... Subs where not that good to begin with, now they just SUCK! I would get 0-1 Kill on average as a Submarine, mostly because my Teamates would kill the enemy faster then I could since SHELLS are FASTER THEN TORPEDOS. Maybe 2 or 3 on a GOOD DAY. Like I'm pretty sure the Battleplan now is: You start the game by Spamming Homing Torpedoes from Max Range, then once most of the enemy team is dead or you find a ship alone you swap to the Normal Torps and proceed to hunt.

This video gets the point of sub warfare now. I have been a sub player since the testing with more than 2.500 battles with subs. Sea Lord is right, the happy times for us are over , shot gunning added a nice extra damage to your plate , although was very rare that you will survive after. the 2.9 rule ditched the I 56 and specially the S 189 , their main damage was from shot gunning. Now with the players getting better at dealing with subs, playing them its like a suicide mission , your only hope to deal damage is to find a really inexperienced player. Spotting is not so east either with 2-3 depth charges you are finished , and what to say about hydro, surface radar, sub surveillance in some cruisers and the enemy sub that is put by WG in the same cap. I still play them but have to change my gameplay , try to stay alive longer , as Sea lord said , only at the end of the game the sub can be a lethal weapon. The change of the shot gunning is understandable, although highly unrealistic , there is only 2 premium subs with dabloons in the game and about 200 hundred , bb , and cruisers and dd? Thank you

Statistically DDs and cruisers have the most impact to WR, BBs have the best average damage, at least in the tier 10 ships of the higher skilled players. There are a few CVs that are effective but zero subs. So no, subs are not that useful overall, just annoying to those that have a bias against them.

Before the nerfs, I was maintaining a 60-70% win rate in tier 8-10 subs playing solo and playing aggressive. After the nerfs, I have to play more passive and my win rate in theri 8-10 subs is 50-55% and its a lot harder to maintain that win rate. The ASW abilities and sub detection abilities added to the ships make it much more difficult. The slow speed of subs compared to many tier 9 and 10 surface ships can sometimes hinder my late game damage. Also, many times before the nerf when I was accused of shotgunning, it was when I fired torps form 4-6km away at a shot that was hugging an island, moving back and forth to poke out, fire, then go back into cover. They were easy prey even at 6km.

The changes have made subs and CVs much like the old rts cvs. The skill floor is so high that if you get a person who plays them a lot they are way overpowered. If you get an avg player then they get crushed.

speed is the biggest problem. bar the 4501 a rowboat can outrun them and ships now just race up into 3km and ur farcked.

Subs got nerfed really hard and everytime you're spotted an armada of depths charges are coming to destroy your face

I cant play subs past tier 6, the enemies just projectile vomit ASW planes at the mere wiff of you at tier 8+ its a thoroughly punishing experience. You simply cannot make 1 mistake

The "pinging" and homing torpedoes are both just stupid. Homing torpedoes were extremely rare, and "pinging" didn't make them home. Give submarines a firing computer. Make the player use it. Have the computer work as well as what the sub had in reality. Speaking of torpedoes, it simply should not be possible for there to be enough torpedoes in the water that you can walk on them. I literally saw an instance in a battle last night where there were nearly two dozen torpedoes in the water side by side. That's just ludicrous.

the arming nerf is brutal. when your out of battery and running away. you almost always get run down by a cruiser or destroyer, you fire rear torps and they dont even move to miss them cus they know its little to no damage. then you get depth charged. they completely rendered suds defenseless cus at max depth you cant hide anymore.

I have been saying this since the nerfs hit subs and even in numerous suggestion emails to WG with a reply saying that the suggestions have been received and the developers will see if they are able to be implemented in a patch at some stage if found to be viable. 1. Asw plane speed reverted back to normal, they now arrived at the sub target before the sub can react and evade the charges dropped. 2. Homing torps need to home better and are less likely to be evaded by ship manouvering when double pinged, infact if torp range is available double pinged torps should arc around to a missed target if ping still active. 3. Lowest depth should be a run silent depth, slow moving, no ping, no surface detection, no launching of torps, as a ship player, sub serv doesn't see sub underwater and depth charges do nothing. This gives a subs a safe place to get away from the action and ships can detect or hurt the sub,obviously the penalty would be air or speed. 4. Ping surface indicator should.only be seen buy the target being pinged, not everyone in the game, 5 secs on surface visual d 3 seconds on mini map 5. Subs should have a turbo prop button to increase underwater speed when detected increasing underwater speed by 20% for 20secs, can be used once every 3 to 5 mins depending on tier 6. 1 button torp, automatic to arming either dumb or homing, depending whether active ping at time of launch. If no active ping, dumb fired, if ping homing. Values change on impact depending what the situation was at that time.

People complain about subs, me included, but DD's and light cruisers with high dpm and torps are always on the top of the leaderboard. Way too overpowered. Weakest class are BB's.

The problem with WoWS is that it’s a arcade game where the developers try to force team play. While that might make sense for Surface Fleets it absolutely doesn’t for Subs. By nature they are the lone wolf predator of ships. I’ve had bad experience playing Subs because you have so little recourse when dealing with the overwhelming ASW ability. It takes a mater of seconds for every Cruiser and BB to launch an attack on you with excellent splash damage. If I don’t have a team to protect the Sub the ships can just run you down and there is nothing you can do. My lost win rates and overall damage is lowest when using subs. Shot gunning that’s what DDs do all the time and in fact I few torpedos then some German BBs. The sub player actually has to expose themselves to a counter attack when shot gunning at close range

I am in the minority here likely but I think that shotgunning was overblown. I rarely was shotgunned by a sub when I played against them and the only time I actually had to shotgun as a sub was from over confident aggressive dds that did not zigzag when depth charging. I also think that the arming distance was completely not needed as dds can already shotgun other ships so I saw no reason for that to be implemented aside from getting rid of complaints from people who simply would rather not deal with them.

Im a better than average sub player, people still cry when they are killed. Lets not let that distract us from the fact that I only spotted and tracked 3 or 4 targets all game, while the CVs were spotting, attacking and crushing every boat on the map for the entire match from a clock time 19:15.

Had a game last night in my T8 German sub U-190 did 80k damage took down a battleship a cruiser and a sub I felt like a real stud

I don't think the play base will be happy until the only options are HE spam or citadels at long range

I have been in games (both as a sub and a floater) where the friendly team wants me dead as well.

I like the arming distance vs most surface ships, not a fan of it vs other subs and destroyers. As some subs have no defence vs a rampaging DD or a close combat sub. and why subs on surface still have no AA.

Battleships still abandon a flank due to them, especially the weekend warriors. I have a feeling they have no idea of the changes. Now the changes to European and Italian cruisers is great. Now the Massachusetts and Guilio Cesar still have only the basic ASW or do not go anywhere close to subs period in them. The scarry part, I am having more fun in subs and do nuke people more with non homing torps just at longer ranges or about 4 to 5 km. That includes DDs.

Subs are useless. They are challenging and seldom rewarding to play. I regularly do around 1.5K damage per torpedo strike. As a surface ship I seldom if ever feel threatened by a sub player. People who think subs are OP are just whiny.

You brought up alot of good points. But subs are an iffy subject for me, I actually work in ASW. Subs IRL back then were high risk high reward solo hunters. Today they are OP possibly world ending ninjas that can bend over any surface ship with almost absolute impunity. Since we are focusing on WOWS, so old school stuff and we need it to balance in an arcade style game. This is hard cus back then Sub didn't hunt BBs or Cruisers. They hunted unarmed cargos and transports. They were supply line disrupters. I think they have the subs dialed in game as far as their robustness. They feel like iron coffins and they should. One of the easiest boats too sink irl and in game. However i think WOWS is severely underplaying their stealth capacity. I shouldn't be able to hide as a DD in some situations but not as a sub. Subs should have an an ability to go 100% dark in this era. Sonar wasn't that advance back then. It was just a trained guy listening to a very fancy, super sensitive sound system. On battery power and not moving at a depth of 30m or lower, you should be dead to the world. Also the fact that you use battery power at snorkel depth is stupid. The whole point of the snorkel is to intake air for the diesel motors and dump exhaust. Simply changing that dynamic might help alot. I would also prefer less torpedos and slower reloads, but over all a much more punishing payload. They min activation ring is perfect imo. I think as far as this game is concerned, Subs should be a silent high risk one shot killer. You play your card right and use stealth to your advantage to line up a solid shot. If you miss your downtime on reload should keep you from being OP and force you to relocate to keep your cover. And if at any point you F up and get found, it should just be immediate game over. I think WOWS has that part nailed. I also think Subs should be split into 2 classes/builds like IRL. Fast Attack (basically ASW/ADD) and instead of an SSBN cus thats not ERA correct. A solo BB/CV hunter. Something to play the long slow game. This way this keeps subs from dominating like CVs use too. But still has that fear factor that should exist to make sub enjoyable. A class for skilled objective and team oriented players to utilize. A useful contributing tool in the right hands or a wet chuck E cheese napkin in the wrong hands. Another final note to make is, the ping. technically any boat with Hydro should have perma passive listening, in the same 2/3 the range of active sonar and about 35m of depth. So an active ping should be a dead giveaway to a sub in that area. Active Hydro should also reveal the user location to subs, as subs should have perma passive listening as well. Or at least a similar game mechanic based off of this concept. I think it'd be really cool if Subs had to cut power and go silent if they got to close to boats with hydro or they would be auto revealed and wait to be fully passed over. This would give a new support aspect to cruiser in protecting BBs and CVs. And Keep Subs from just going wherever they like. This would force some thought and strategy. I want Subs in this game, And I believe they can be done right. I hadn't played in months till the yesterday and WOWS gave me a premium T8 britsh sub for free. SO I thought I'd give it a go. I found it to be very boring, time to target was too damn long and the damage output wasn't enough to risk being in range to hit anyone. everything you did was an immediate giveaway for no justifiable reason. There simply isn't enough time , resources or capacity to utilize a sub until late game. Basically you gotta sit on your ass and wait the first 45% of the game, hoping your team is setting up to use you. I do like how quickly you can be punished for being mismanaging your cover. just my 2 cents

If friendly fire was a thing still you wouldn't see any subs because the team would kill them

As a cv main. I finally worked on some tech tree ships after playing exclusive cv all the ways to super carrier. Now while grinding the schliefen I understand why people hate them. It’s the tandem combo of getting shotgunned AND spotted it’s cancer and I finally get it

I was a DD following a sub while submerged. It was faster than me…

I say subs are absolutely an issue. CV's not an issue for me to play against but as a person that loved playing them, I quit playing them after the nerf. Funny thing is I feel WGing is trolling me by just giving me my fourth premium CV last night only for it to be permanently docked in port. So to speak.

Thing about subs is effective or not, they're not fun to play against. We play this game to enjoy the challenge of the battle but with subs it's an annoyance. You enjoy defeating DDs, HE spammers, citadeling BBs, but with subs your happy that there no longer in the match

ASW is all well and good until you're in a British light cruiser with its depth charges. I'd like to see hydro affect subs normally regardless of depth. When you're in a minotaur and getting outrun by say u-4501 that extra couple of km spotting for the team would be the difference between engaging gameplay against subs and being obliterated by the other team (or running away under smoke).

Shot gunning is less frequent but certainly still happens. The game is a 100x better without cv or subs. You see people say "omg no sub or cv must be Xmas" they never say thank God for this 2 cv 2 sub game.

My only beef with subs now is that you can't detect them on hydro at longer ranges, and they can outrun DDs. I can deal with the Hydro stupidity, if they get a speed nerf

British subs are so much harder to play compared to German subs. Theres a massive disparity in the sub game. I might get 40k damage in a tier 8 British sub, I have no issues getting 100k with a German sub at the same tier consistently. I never see rarely see British subs at tier 8. I’ve never seen one in a tier 10 game. They’re always German.

To be honest, to see a real difference before and after the nerf all you need to do is to play lesta's version of the game, where subs doesn't have 3.1km damage reduction nerf. I've grinded to the K-1 ( russian gato tech line analogue) in 1-2 day from scratch and this thing obliterates anyone in one go if you play it correctly. Plus people there also dont have improved indicator of sub's location after ping, and, u know, u no need to ping if u know what's ru sub line is all about. On EU we have buffed damage of all torps and bigger dodge potential thanks to the improved turning circle on subs ( it helps very little, but it helps anyway). So it's like this - spam-ping from mid to long range with no other options left / hard and risky to execute. Well, from a sub-player perspective, im getting more fun from trying to come close undetected and shotgun someone, so lesta's version of subs of course is my favourite. I played subs on beta / on release / after first nerfs and depth charges buffs / and now, and to be honest, now subs on eu is very weak + un-engagin to play state. Only 4501 is interesting to play for me, because of the Ferrari underwater speed.

i find i play subs less often mainly because i have more games where i hit nothing with torps, even if im not sunk pretty fast. i never went shotgunning anyway, but i wont say theyre unplayable now. i'd say they're frustratingly boring most games. then again i dont own a fast sub that can keep up with a target or get 3km plus away to do something useful with torps. and that means im not grinding past u69 (which was never unbalanced to start with) and undine, so i never will. i suppose it killed subs as a playable line because why play something that is mostly just underwater missing, or sunk fast, or chasing on the surface and getting only the occasional cap assist?

Beeing a fresh player having started in March for the very first time playing this game, having so far unlocked 3 T8's and 4 T7's, I don't mind them really much after the most recent changes. Italian U-Boat search is weak though but if I did to Subs itnwas misplacement of my ship, most often not actually getting killed by them just spotted. In DD's they're hard to counter though, you're a far bigger target to everyone else compared to the sub.

I finally bought the Gato and I feel I wasted the steel. Yes it hits hard when it hits which is usually only dumb BB captains who sail in a straight line 11 km away. You guys get what you deserve. At the higher tiers there are so many ways to detect subs on the surface and bellow. I don't see a game which doesn't have a cruiser equipped with sub surveillance which can be activated from the beginning of the game. I'm back playing German and Brit DDs hunting subs which at least is fun (for me - sux for the sub). Here on the Asian server even seeing a sub is not likely , more like 1 in 4 games that I have played and very rarely see 2 subs aside. At higher tiers I play the WoT light tank role of passive spotting which is ok (although with radar and sub surveillance it is definitely not easy) and while I do generate a lot of points for it my damage count has dropped dramatically and frankly if I want to be a passive spotter all game I'll just play WoT.

I think the player base is so trash that subs just don't stand out as the THING.

I recently got into a German submarine. It's fun but takes practice.

Well, I’m in the “game is finally making some sense” camp. I would still like to see an AA mini-game!!

Gold ammo in the premium shop next, and gold torps for subs and CVs.

I love(d) submarines and shotgunning in particular. But I always hated the ping-homing nonsense and did not use it until the nerf. Since the nerf there are some subs I dont play anymore, like the russian which used to be my favorite. What you now see is mostly 4501 because its now the most effective sub. I rarely use any other now, not even Gato. And of course I ping all the time. In my opinion they should have limited the homing to anti-sub and kept the shotgunning. That would have been a more reasonable nerf, but of course opinions differ about that. Playing surface vessels, I was and still am annoyed by the pinging, but never was about shotgunning. Cause being shotgunned meant you did something wrong - most of the time you were playing solitair or stationary when shotgunned.

I agree to some point with this video, but I do feel that if they were going to Nerf the torpedo power they should have compensated the time you could spend underwater and or the depth you could go to. Like I feel like that submarines should be able to avoid depth charges if possible by going like let's say 80 maybe 100 on the depth scale instead of 60. Because at least then you know the sub has an opportunity to avoid but to compensate for that it burns up more battery. So the deeper you go the more battery you burn. But yeah, they are an annoyance at this point but I do believe that the submarines, the i-56 and the gato should have been compensated because those submarines were made for shotgunning and now they can't fulfill that role. So that's my opinion on that, but who knows what they're going to go next with. I mean we're getting the USS Archer fish now so who knows what the next submarine tech line is going to be. They so could do the Japanese. They could redo the Russian line, you know. Maybe we'll get French submarines who knows at this point

I stopped playing back when subs first released and havent been on since. They dont really belong in the standard game mode. Thats my opinion and it wont be changing untill theyre fully removed. In their own unique game mode sure. But not standard.

12:58 i remember these 2 guys, Austia and Polaris playing T10 CVs back in the day, they were the definition of Skycancer, having either in your team it was a 90% chance of victory, and when they faced each other, lets just say it wasnt a fun experience for the other players 😂😅 pretty sure ive seen at least 2 hard gained Solo Warriors while in a match with them the only way you could avoid them was to be in a full AA Des Moines or Mino, anything less and you were just XP for them xD

Subs in the first part of the game is a spotter. The spotting for the team is the real danger. Only past the half game, the damage starts counting

I remember shot gunning my first BB, i felt bad. Glad its gone

had a fun experince, hunting a sub in my jäger. he was pinging me and pinging me and i just sat on his side so no torps could not be aimed at me untill i could dump depth charges on his ass.

Tbh, it doesnt matter how many "subs are pretty okay now" or "Subs die too easy" opinions. The community has been so traumatized by how strong they used to be, that youll almost never get a positive opinion on them. Im pretty sure this is 80% why thy havent been added to WOWSL yet.

I run mainly Ops and Asyms (when WG blesses us with them), no sub problems over there,

It's better now with the reduced shotgunning. However, the inherent problem is still around - gameplay wise they are just not fun to play against for surface ships. That and also the presence of a sub makes everybody stay back so they are part of why we have this passive games in Randoms. I mean, the sub can also be played as an overpowered destroyer immune to radars which make them very powerful for spotting.

It is certainly better. I do think there is still some issue with some of the ASW stuff and range. They do not bother me nearly like they used to. CVs and the inability of AA to function at all is a much bigger issue at this point. I hate seeing a CV MUCH MUCH more than seeing a sub any more

I have all the stock subs and four premiums. I went from playing them every day to almost not at all. Getting put on the same side every single time is the worst. It’s mainly because they can detect each other without any notice to the other player. Whats the point of stealth when stealth detection exists. Last thing is ASW shouldn’t work when your on the surface, or make it damage other ships.

I have once been in a triple sub + double carrier match, it was crazy hahaha

Subs have been nerfed into the ground. Literally every ship can easily spam you with 10s cooldown air bombs on 10km range while you have 3 repairs and EVERY hit below 400m of depth charge distance causes fire and/or water AND oil leakage in your submarine. In addition way too many ships have long range radar, hydro or submarine detection, which - in combination makes is IMPOSSIBLE to escape. You are detected, you are dead. That's the submarine gameplay. And all of this, while DD's can still shotgun you with up to 15 torps which make double the damage of sub-torps. But yeah, that's fine I guess...

It's nice that at least some sub hate has decreased. I'm really looking forward to the FTP video.

I like that I have been able to successfully go after and attack a sub with my DD now, although it is risky -- but in the past it was simply suicidal to do that (even though they were the best at doing that in real life).

Give support CVS a dropable 10k sonar bouy they outspot most dds so when the dd goes into a cap spotted by a sub it's usually auto deleted dd why do dds not get the sub surveillance instead of cruisers that can't get close enough to use it

WG - "Carriers are an experiment." WG - "Carriers are here to stay." Players - "But carriers suck and you said..." WG - "F.U. and shut up." WG - "There will NEVER be submarines in WoWS". WG - "Subs." Players - "But subs suck and you said..." WG - "F.U. and shut up."

I feel fragile when playing Submarines. Especially when playing I-56. I have to pray to god my trops hit something.

I’ve had some issues with hitting them when they are turning though that may just be a misunderstanding with how the indicator works. Though the biggest problem I’ve seen is fighting them in an island cruiser. I’ve had my poor Des Moins get half of her health deleted at the start of the match just as I’m getting into position.

i haven't yet got an opinion on subs, yes they were a pain in the bum, so i have started to play them, and i think that as they are, subs can be quite fun.

I still find those ping markers inaccurate even when I drop in the direction that they point. WG needs to do away with that 3km (I think) area and just put the markers right on top.

If you don't believe that OG carriers were powerful just keep in mind that they dropped full damage torpedos And my experience as an older player who started again recently is that submarines are.... not very good. More hated than carriers - I've never seen a team band together in chat to hunt a carrier but it happens with subs pretty frequently - yet less capable in every way of contributing to the match. They can be fun to play but you can't play aggressively. They really benefit from hanging back near cruiser range until things start happening - if you rush out with the destroyers you are going to die fast and without doing much. I think a big problem is that sub-on-sub battles are just kinda.... boring. Unless you catch them totally unaware somehow and get lucky it's a consumable battle that usually just ends in both subs going home blueballed because once their detection consumables are used... well, no one's doing anything. Really needs to be more that gets sub players engaged with other sub players.

Maybe Sea Lord needs to play DDs more. DDs need the airstrike ASW too. With other teamates around A DD will get shot at by everybody on the red team while having to dodge torps. If the sub is close enough the Italian DDs with exhaust smoke and speed boost has a shot. After subs I only play maybe once a month and WG has not gotten any money from me.

Ya the joys of being in a tier 5 BB with subs and cvs, thanks but I'll stay gone.

Seal lord, congrats you actually crossed the E line for 30s. Don't know if the vid is supposed to back up your theory...

In my german submarine i couldn't kill anything even with full salvo hit on battleship or cruiser I couldn't kill the torpedoes didn't do nothing

I feel they targeted the wrong issues with subs with these changes, and think they should have focused more on tuning the homing torps rather than shotgunning. I really enjoyed the thrill of getting in close with subs, and greater preferred it when enemy subs came in close to actually interact with me so I could kill them. The frustrating gameplay for me was the boring sit at the back and lob homing torps and only going underwater if there was a radar cruiser about, and now that's all there is. It's boring to play, and far more annoying than shotgunning ever was. They also butchered sub on sub combat which I found exciting, now you just tap the reveal sub button and let your team have all the fun. Somewhat related, I've been enjoying operations and wish I could use my subs there with my friends. The one sub operation is boring and repetitive. Overall the PvE content in game is criminally neglected.

It continues to be a mystery to me why WG thought and keeps on thinking why subs are a good idea. They don´t add anything good nor interesting to the game. They are a pain in the ass to deal with because you don´t fight subs. Dropping ASW depth charges is not fun, that´s not fighting! Fortunately, most sub drivers are just bad players who don´t do well in surface ships. Subs are usually on the bottom of leader boards with low damage and no kills. True, there is the occasional good player that does really well in subs, those are few and far in between thank God.

If destroyer players knew their roles, many subs would not survive long! That's the problem, many ship players don't know the roles of how their ships should be played!

Honestly, if you've in a fat, slow BB you're still screwed

Subs here since I started. I'd rather a 2 sub game over any DD's! And with the nerf, I can no longer defend myself against DD's or ASW cruisers. They get close & I die. I've also gotten good at hunting subs in a BB. Think 1/2 the complaints just people that hate change. Often un UK BB's, and can still dodge with a single ping.

In my opinion subs have been nerfed way too far. Too many people complaining about subs when they didn't really have that much power. Even with the old setup many players would come back with 0 damage maybe only spotting never capping. That is not the mark of an OP class of ship. WoWs listens to whiners too much and end up ruining the entire experience for those who appreciate a particular class of ship. When people didn't have carriers or subs to complain about they complained about DDs the same way. To me it just shows human nature. People are going to complain about something no matter what. Bring back the old sub buffs!

subs now are in a weird position where who ever stays on the surface longer wins, in my opinion it renders most of the captain skills useless, thus sub requires good BB players at their back to kill the enemy subs faster, so the German tech tree subs have huge advantages against subs of other nations with their 9km sub sur (vs 6km so nerf pls) and longer acoustic torb range (outside of most BB ASW). sorry for bad grammar.

1. They still don't belong in the game. 2. They're not as bad as they were before. 3. They've never been as bad as CVs. At least subs have to risk themselves to attack.

Idk. I am NOT a sub player, but when I do happen to play them for a challenge, I typically get top of my team or close to it.

High risk, low reward. Yeah. That's accurate. Watch as ships die before your torpedoes connect. Subs are rough. But. Years of hate means that no one wants to hear the struggles. Pings are annoying. Etc etc. No talks of buffs welcomed. Only more nerfs. But forcing to surface after damage is too harsh. Still love my Subs. But dang is it hard to perform / stay alive. And I love getting flamed because I took more value in staying alive than protecting a flank / cap. People still expect subs to be monstors. Still expect to spot and keep enemies lit. If you told me the "spotted" ribbon sound was going to be the most terrifying sound years ago. I'd laugh Now? If it isn't directly in front of me. It's time to look around. Find the DD. Then dive and run away before I'm detected. Also. Funny thing that happened to me one day. Went to periscope depth to dodge enemy torps. Wasn't pinged. Almost died because two torps hit my periscope. I was hit with both confusion and laughter. It makes sense in hindsight. But. I didn't know that the periscope actually has a hit box.

For me it's 50/50. Playing in a BB it still sucks quite a bit, but they have been much more easy to kill.

I barely play anymore since they put those things in the game. GG WG. I hope the influx of players was worth the outflow.

Subs are less of a problem but it's still not fun to play against them, especially when you have other things to pay attention to. Sure, it might be a skill issue, as some might say, but in my eyes, it's the same problem as with CVs and the "just dodge" meme. At some point, you just can't dodge and it's even worse when you don't even know that there was a sub. In the end, it's safe to say that they got a lot better but I don't want to start comparing them to CVs. They're both classes that are cancer to play against.

I enjoy subs the nerfs were needed . But they nerfed It too much a bit to much. They need to put longer distances not much but a little for both types of torps in general or give back some lost damage to when less that 3xm but really Its more like 5km when the ship Is coming towards the sub . Subs need to focus how to make them more fun. Add range to the torps at least so they can stay further away when launching torps. DDs come up on subs to fast from there 5.5 detection really and other subs can't detect them close enough now,even when they are over 3km very little damage. WG just went off on subs ruined dam near ruined them. I hope WG can fix It to where they are more fun more distance for torps and a little more damage for both types of torps. I really enjoy Radar guided torps ,but really no on uses them they do so little damage within 5km now not just three km..........Don't get me wrong It Is better now but I think some more tweaking should be done to subs.......

i only played T6 Cachalot and it's dog****, at least with a destroyer you have smoke and high maneuverability and you deal more damage with torps

When I used to be able to play they were not that annoying with the new changes. But now I couldn't tell ya, game won't download updates and have to uninstall and reinstall, gets annoying. WG blames it on my ISP but some time it works and some times it does not or does not work at all when new updates come outt. ugh

it's the same problem everytime. People that don't play subs complain about them without knowing how bad and boring sub gameplay became. There are so many situations where you cant get in range for your torps and if you use them at long range people just dodge them so you have to get in close and now you are spotted and dead in seconds. You have good games in subs sometimes but everything has to work out for you to get one. Even if you know what you are doing there are are 2 out of 3 games where you cant do much it just feels so unsatisfiying to play them. At this point just get them out of the game give me back the recources i payed for them.. they are still kinda playable but its just not fun anymore and reading the rest of the comments here the only surfaceshipenjoyers are still complaining. if they cant balance it then just remove them all together... Although i play surfaceships most of the time i really enjoyed the casual sub games here and there but not anymore. The gameplay is just shit and they either change it or remove them imo.

One huge problem is with the mechanics is that there is no sub that should be detectable by a destroyer at periscope depth. In fact there should be no sub that is detectable by a DD even at surface depth. It just doesn't make any sense in physics models or real life.

I mean it's definitely improved, but I wouldn't say solved. I've definitely had a lot more opportunities to damage subs as a surface ship and the 3km damage thing has been a really good addition I think. Still don't think it's 100% there though

Annoying when they single you out but nowhere near as effective as they used to be

I rather sub without ping (unless it is another sub) . I think it is more fair but I also dont get killed straight away as my position isnt revealed.

i'd tried playing the u69 a few days ago, i had to say, it's ok, just try to live longer( which is getting hard after the rework), and well, i'm not very good at this type of ship to be honest, that's why i'm still in t6, not much motivation to climb up the line after the rework, i'd once lived to the end of the game, and it really shines then, damage came much easier and well, if you had the points lead, it's just very powerful, just go under and wait for the points to tick while they try to find you, but well, living is really much harder these days, regularly got killed is a norm for me, and killing and avoiding is much easier for surface ships, so i'd say it's a good rework( not like that strange and too complicated one that's coming soon)

holy moly this man is pumping out content faster the slop live

So every time someone talks about playing subs they seem to not be fun or rewarding. So WG managed to create a class that feels terrible to play against while not even being fun to play?

When I play subs I’m hunting the enemy sub or carrier

I can tolerate CVs, but subs are still a hugh issue for me as a BB main. I'm not worried about damage from the sub, I'm just so distracted that I'm not helping my team and have become a target. Hate em!