In my opinion, this appears to be manufacturing issue rather than a design issue. The XLX2 you tested works great while the couple that KT got had manufacturing defects. If the manufactured product meets the engineering specification when leaving the factory, it is a good robust product. Looks like they have to evaluate their manufacturing control plan and Quality control.
Yep, Castle posted. Page 4 and Page 7. www.arrmaforum.com/threads/castle-creations-xlx-2-just-released.28167/page-4#post-437120 Early batches had a manufacturing issue. They should recall those serial numbers. They have fixed it since then, I am happy with that as there are no other options on the market for high end speed runs.
@@RazShifrin thank you raz I have been preaching this same thing in a lot of the bashing videos of castle. I appreciate that you are one of the good guys and want to teach people. Thanks for using your platform to help. I wish my following was that big so I could dispel this myth of a bad product. I used over 20 and not one issue. Happy new year.
Dude so kev made his catch fire your stupid you didnt do what kev did just put it in a car turn it on not even go full throttle and tuch the break and boom its on fire if they gave the esc like you said i called them told them i want to test it and you get one you love them dont you do real world shit in your test not strap it to wood on less battery and say every one is crazy and there is no problem here fuck off he didnt make it happen
i think Castle should limit them and to unlock it, you need to agree to terms & condition for voiding the warranty, so if you unlock it, its at your own risk! that way castle can deal with it headache and noob free! when you unlock it, it will throw a code so if someone tries to return it as faulty, then they will know 😀 keep up the great work mate!
@@MatthewSimm I ran my 1100kv hobbywing on the max5 in my xmaxx for a year it seemed under powered I recently upgraded to the mmx8s on the hobbywing 1100kv and it woke that motor up it gets the amps it needs now
Also, to be direct and honest, if a consumer does the described torque test as described per the Castle Link, you’re flooring whatever motor to max rpm for longer than a few blips. That direction by itself is worse than what most have done
Oh come on now, you can't use this ESC with low load or it just instantly burns up - That's user error? What happens when you're jumping your off-road buggy and the drivetrain is unloaded while it's mid-air? In Kev's example, the first video was not without the pinion - The full drivetrain was connected, just with the vehicle being held up off the floor. In the second video, it was without a pinion but he didn't hold it on like that - It set on fire after just a blip. You could see the settings on his second video and no drag brake was configured. He also confirmed that he didn't touch the brake in that run. This is a design flaw, no ESC should be this fragile especially a premium ESC. It being "high power" is no excuse for this failure mode. If it doesn't support high kV motors, it should clearly state what the applicable limit is.
Great video Raz! I'm sure that everyone knows this but most of the XLX2 fires were due to people using 2000+kv D wind motors. Castle have a firmware update that allows the use of 2000kv motors that should eliminate the fire issue👍
My first thought after the Talbot vid was perhaps he’d been incredibly unlucky and got two duds out of a batch. However unlikely, sometimes these things happen. It doesn’t necessarily mean the rest are also duds. Quality control is a thing in manufacture, and even these days one or two duds can get through. I think Kev was also wondering in his vid if maybe there was an internal fault in his motor.
Kevin's most obvious mistake was using poor connectors. QS8 ant-sparks are the way to go. However, fires have occurred with people using them a well. Not to mention the owner of Castle himself said on Facebook that there is a production issue with the XLX2 where he state there is current leakage into the case, and Castle has since corrected the issue and implemented a closer inspection upon distribution. So, what about people who have a faulty ESC and don't know about? I saw a video of a guy who lost 2 full cars as a result. I can appreciate Raz's final thought in this video, but what can Castle do to mitigate the problem is a recall of current XLX2's.
@@JimmyKay1976 3200kv motor pulls way to much current to fast from the XLX2 , plus over gearing , then add in free rev with no motor load , that’s your recipe for a big fire 🔥
@@tuffguy40 I hope castle xlx 2 can deal with more to motors than it looks so far and hoping it will be ok to use on all other motors , Castle xlx 2 will be ok on castle motors
@@tuffguy40 I have no question that user error is to blame in many cases, Talbot's is one. But the fact that the owner of Castle very bravely admitted to a production issue on Facebook is also huge. Castle needs to step up and recall the ESCs they believe to be faulty. It's the right thing to do. I know it'll be a big financial hit on their end but people will respect them for it. I'm a business owner myself, and sometimes these are the things we need to do to show & maintain our integrity. I won't be using the new XLX2 I have. The plan was to pair it with a TP 2200Kv motor but I'd rather be safe than sorry. I refuse to let a $240 ESC ruin a car I put HUNDREDS more into. Just not gonna happen.
@@JimmyKay1976 I hear you man , this just may or could be all on castle, with there product , I’m looking @ there site , it look like that XLX2 is marketed as a 5th scale esc , all 5th scales I see run low kv motors , 800 to maybe 2000 kv , , I think maybe it not made for high kv motor , but I don’t know it just my opinion
I’m a XLX fan but I would like to see the same video done on 8s. I wanted to upgrade to an xlx2 but after Kiev’s vid I’m sceptical. Do it again on 8s Raz. 👍
8:23 -WTF? I should be more careful with powerful ESCs? ECS doesn't provide any power. Battery does. And the motor consumes it. The ESC should be capable enough to stand this middle-man position. As bigger the ESC as safer I should feel myself. In what world it is vise-verse? Moreover, for this price, I expect a current and temperature sensors so it has zero chances to catch fire!
Yeah man I just don't get it. It's not like Castle will stop making these. If these Escs are as good as they are supposed to be then they should keep them and show them off themselves. As far as being screwed if they do stop manufacturing these we are completely fine. I hit 94 mph with the traxxas 3s system no problem. There's no way we are screwed. I think this guy is just a fan boy and just upset that his go to brand it taking shots after a faulty product release. Have a nice day man🤟
I "know" why Kevins ESC blow up, and yours didn't... Your "problem" is that you ran the motors within spec, and Kevin didn't. You used a: TP 4070 2200kv motor rated at 34V max and tested it on 25.2V. 34V = 8S fully charged. 25.2V = 6S fully charged. Kevin on the other hand used a: TP 4070 3200kv motor rated at 23.5V max and tested it on 33.6V. 23.5V = Somewhere between 5S fully charged and 6S slightly depleted. 33.6V = 8S fully charged. Running a motor at a way higher voltage then what it was designed for, is increasing the amperage draw too. And since your motor was rated at 264A @ 34V and still pulled 363A @ 25,2V, just imagine what a motor rated at 382A @ 23.5V could do when running at 33.6V... This is not something only Kevin does, too many people ignore a motors max voltage rating and just think in KV instead. TP motor Spec: www.tppowerusa.com/image/cache/data/tp-4070-cm-2200kv-6-8s-900x900.png
The problem is - you're using low Kv motors... KT's vid was done using a 3200Kv motor - and CC does not state a max Kv rating for the XLX2 (which they should). I bet if you did the same test with a similar Kv motor you might get similar results. Seems all other tests have used lower Kv motors as well. He was also testing with zero load in the second example... Rob Holmes has stated that this would also increase the chance of something bad happening especially with fresh batteries. [Edit] Looks like you were running 6s, where KT ran 8s I believe.
That's because Raz is following the manufacturers recommendations. Castle state that; "The Mamba XLX2 is capable of handling incredible amounts of power, your motor must also be up for the task. Always run your motor within the manufacturer’s specs" Kevin Talbot DID NOT ~ He ran a 6S rated 3200KV motor on 8S!. He also had the motor timing set up at "10" degrees when it should have been at "0" for that type of D wind motor. Not to mention wrong connectors and poor soldering.
I have 2 mamba X's, 2 Sidewinder 3's (one sct edition) hooked to a Tekin 3500, two Castle 3800's, and a 5700kv. Absolutely no issues with any Castle electronics, running them for years now. #castlepower baby!
I have 2 of the XLX2 esc’s zero issues running in my 8s Xmaxx. One is paired with the 1100kv the other 800kv super fast. Powerful, and reliable. Throw a 8s pack on there and show them .
We should all be grateful for Castle and their willingness to still work with us and you are 100% correct there is no one else in the market that does that and for people trying to I don't know capitalize on being keyboard Rambo to get attention to me I think it's disgusting. it's going to end up making it so that we can't use this e s e the way we want to. Very good explanation very good video very good talking points
Much respect to your explanation at the end of the video and education you provided. Everyone just wants to be key board heros. Ive watched all ur vids and Kevins and i wondered myself what happened to his cars but not once did i think it was the product because i seen what u have been doing with the products you work with. I appreciate your integrity and respect for others and yourself. Keep up the great work Raz✊🏼💪🏼🤙🏼
Surely for a test to be decisive in any way, ALL conditions need to be matched, use it in the same car with the same internals, motor, gears and 8s battery and see if it catches fire 👍 Why was this not done if you want to prove someone else wrong? Match ALL the conditions or the test is null and void.
It’s good to see someone testing it properly and I’m looking forward to moving on to xlx2 once I push my Limitless as far as I can New to Arrma but enjoying your videos as they have been very helpful
I agree.Caslte has some very powerful ESCs but it sad that they have generally been so terrible with reliability in general. If Castle were as reliable as Hobbywing , I would have been buying Castle over Hobbywing any day. The truth however is that the reliability of their ESCs are so terrible that I don't even want to touch them.
Glad to see you taking the right stance on this. Sure people have had success with castle, just as much as people have had problems with them. Everyone acts like Kevin's video is the 1st time castle cremations has been a problem, but there are dozens of forum posts from cars/trucks to boats and helis of castle burning rigs to the ground. But then again there has been countless people with good experiences too. The issue comes when castle doesn't make it right.
Respect Raz! I agree completely. XLX2 is Lamborghini 'tank' and in a league of it's own. Castle is not some dodgy company and they will certainly do what they deem to be necessary. No need to bash the company that is actually trying to give us what we desire, while others are not. Can you even be a fanboy, if no one else is capable/dares to make an equivalent product? I think not.
Dude I started out posting. Dude not dissing your video but I've watched so many videos on youtube with them catching on fire. Decided to watch the whole video before I posted and what you are saying makes so much sence. Great video.
I just bought an xlx2 a couple days ago, I'm hoping I won't have any issues with it. I waited a couple of months, hopefully it was worth it *Edit* mine caught on fire, so that's fantastic. Had it in an outcast 8s exb. I didn't decide to bench test it considering it was manufactured far past where the initial issues started. It ran fine for the first few tests, but as soon as I took it to a park and really opened it up, it blew up. It only took 5-10 minutes for it to happen. My motor temps were cold still, even after the fire. The next unit I'm getting I'll be testing it outside on the concrete.
Your definitely right raz I think it's people that don't use them properly people use very high kv motors and it causes the esc to blow and to the batteries I think a good idea is to make a video on motor selection so people can understand what they are doing
I trust that your response would be unbiased, which motors do you prefer? Castle or TP? And personally I don't trust Castle for their ESCs these days, my XLX blew up and Castle took well over a week to respond, and by respond I mean they sent me a full price quote for a brand new one. I'd understand if I was a chronic ESC killer, but I've only blown one and it happened during calibration lmao.
It's a very tricky one, i'm INLOVE with TP power, they are literally amazing but my 167mph is with castle🤷🏼♂️ Very tricky question I honestly don't know how to answer.
I will definitely disagree with this !!!! I have seen it for myself,people plug them in and the car catch on fire I lost 2 my self, that lost sound-and they replaced it and sold it had an internal short so how is that user error maybe the one you got is special but I’ll be damn if you gonna tell me or cancel that it was everybody fault just because they plug it up and pull the trigger and I’m not talking about that idiot in the video SMH
My MGM ESC exploded. It's huge it's expensive it's incredibly delicate it is not water resistant it is not vibration resistant it is so easy to damage you to brake it's not even funny. For all that amount of money you think that they could put the boards and some kind of epoxy brick or at least put them inside of a tupperware container but they don't even do that. Very very delicate piece of equipment. There is no!!! believe me when I say there's no comparison between the two.
Excellent video. Ive had 2 go bad due to wrong connectors once i changed to qs8 i had no more issues. Excellent product for sure. Oh i told kevin talbot that he was using the wrong connectors he was using ic5 connectors. Thats why he started that fire twice. Plus voltage spike. I hope he fixed it.
Great test, but i disagree with the no load revving. It pulls almost no power when revved up without load, and under no circumstances should burst into flames
Those rumors(or not) have kept me from purchasing the xlx2 ... I can't help but be nervous.... I really want it, too, I just didn't want to risk burning something down... this video eased my mind a bit, though
Good stuff dude! I’ve been running HV Brushless since the early 2000s. I’ve had it all. We’ve never had anything like this period! We’ve probably never had this many people in the hobby that have no idea what they’re doing either. Just get all their information from RU-vid. Dudes don’t know how to build a car, solder, let alone understand electronics. Castle PLEASE DO NOT RESTRICT the XLX2. So many of us appreciate the work you guys put into this esc! Thanks Raz for keeping it real and informative!!!
I almost exclusively do speedruns on rc boats. ( SAW) Check out the Jags world record boat at approx 200 mph. The standard size prop for these boats is 45 mm. You ran a 70 mm. prop. The XlX2 is absolutely Amazing!!!
I put this in my dbxle 2.0 and after a couple runs, I had to go into settings and turn down the power. My truck was accelerating violently and doing wheelies in the grass and the street. It was fun for awhile but I didn't want to end up breaking gears and stuff. Plus my run time was was way short. This esc is a BEAST and I want it to last. 🙂
Your best video yet! Your the man. The problem is Kevin’s motor it’s a cm3200. Xlx killer!!!!!! It’s a 4-5s motor max on light car and gear. He’s running 8s.
8s would lessen the amp load so no a 8s test won’t make it worse smh. Did you listen or watch the whole video? I bet you just came right to comment section.
Sir you clearly don't understand how amperage works sit down watch the video watch the disclaimer video and maybe get online and educate yourself a little bit more before making stupid comments.
Higher voltage creates a more efficient setup hence the reason we don’t run 4s in a 1/5 scale car because the amp load would be too great. All we are doing is manipulating electric flow to get what we want.
@@fathersonhobbies3178 did you watch the video raz even states this don’t just jump to the comment section without trying to understand what it is that you are commenting on.
I personally think you're testing the wrong thing. I'd have to properly inspect a broken one to be sure but it looks like it's the bec circuitry that's the problem not the core esc itself. None of the issues Kevin had were under meaningful power. Just speculation but my guess is that the bec isn't designed to account for the surge current demands from high power steering servos. In short microsecond bursts high powered servo motors can push current several times their rated stall max. I'd guess that the BEC can't handle this.
@@mr.boombastic8612 Yeah but the second time he just spun it up in the air but it was when he put it on the ground and tried to drive it indoors that it went. The motor would have had a far higher rpm spinning the wheels than the tiny bit of throttle used in trying to drive in the shop. What DID change was that suddenly the servo was being used under load, and the servo will move as fast as it can all the time, even on an indoor test. I really don't think the kv is the issue if it's going off when not under load.
@@miken966 If the esc is being operated within specification no amount of battery sag should cause an issue. That's a design flaw if it does. At any rate the batteries don't really come into it if you are not under load. Those gensace basher 50c packs will probably sag lower under high load than those zops did on the bench. I've never had any esc have an issue with sag and I've had batteries sag down to 2.5v when trying old packs I should have binned. You can't have an esc that's toast because you tried to use a battery that you didn't realise was in bad condition.
Unfortunately I believe it’s too late. Castle will add the limiter immediately. All we can really hope for is that maybe they offer two versions. One with and one without the limiter but doesn’t come with a warranty. Or maybe provide a firmware option. Option 1 for a limiter and option 2 without limiter/no warranty.
I was watching the intro like is this guy trying to blow this esc up......I've hear about these catching fire were gonna give it hell.......oooooooohhhhhh he is. Great video.
I 100% agree with your views on what people are doing on Facebook and what Castle might do if they don't want to deal with countless warranty claims/warranty abuse or any further "bad press". I think it would be terrible for the hobby for Castle to not push the limits.
I will be the first to say that I enjoy watching some of Kevin's videos they're funny and somewhat informative for the bashing community as you will learn what is going to break on those types of RC. That being said there may be an issue with a small batch of the xlx2's, but that being said if you watched enough of Kevin's videos you will clearly see that he by far does not do the best soldering jobs and he will admit that himself also I do believe that there was an issue with the size of the connectors he was using. Everybody has their own opinion and all I can say is at least Castle is trying to work with people and their product.
The ESC could have a current protection to cut the power when the transistor runs away. It is simple. Car audio amplifiers are smart enough to go into "Protect" mode before causing damage. The ESC can do the same. No need to kill the hobby by neutering the ESC. Just implement a protection feature.
You kind of miss the point here, as the first ESC Kevin Talbot burned was with a pinion installed, and also CC themselfes admitted that the XLX2 seems to have problems with delta wound motors. Also it is dumb to just unlimited a product if it can destroy itself. You have to put the limit slightly below what the product acutally can handle, let it be 600A.
0:30 I am expecting the man with the pole to get fired back through that window with the thruse! Also thought for the day is that whilst Castle say the ESC's are waterproof they also specifically state they are not to be fully submersed. Although my sidewinder 4 spent 5 mins upside in water, totally submerged in a culvert last week and ran fine the next day!
this is the exact reason I watch you raz, you enjoy what comes to you and you make do even if it requires programming(castle) we need to enjoy it and leave it to those that know what there doing instead of ruening it for others.sorry for bad spelling
A compromise would be having to put the ESC into a special mode to get the high power features and creating a safe limit for out of the box settings. Similar to what CPU companies do when it comes to over clocking
Thanks for the video. I am a castle creations fan but just a comment about your conclusion: Yes, 6S draws more amperage for the same VA vs 8S but with higher voltage comes the requirement of higher BIL ratings for components inside the ESC. Notice how 500kV transmission lines are taller and each phase of the conductor has higher separations between each others than distribution level lines that are say sub 25kV? The larger space in between gives more insulation thus prevent arcing. I am just speculating here but I think the XLX2 ESC may have inadequate insulation materials for 8S that may cause components to arc/flash over during motor energization (transients) thus causing the electrical fault. I don't think you can just claim because the XLX2 survived 6S and it will also survive 8S because of the lower current draw on the same KV. You also have to consider the voltage.
This is a great comment! Thank you for that, I am still uncertain what's going on out there, mine never failed on 8s also but i do see guys having issues that shouldn't happen. I'm honestly just a bit baffled about the whole thing.
dude you are right and i agree with what you all said but i just burnt one right out of the box first run so comp should admit that there are some faulty units
My first xlx2 was blowing up batteries after 10 minutes of bashing on a dbxl-e 2.0 with the 800kv motor 120c Orion batteries and spectrum 100c 4s batteries.
That was “only” 6s you need to test it on more, we basically saw now that on 6s it’s pretty solid witch tells me it should probably be rated for 6s ? I’m no expert but I think it’s a great esc maybe it’s the safe limit for it ?
If 6s can reach over 500 or 600 amps imagine 8s on full bore for 5 + seconds it basically turns it self into a welder 🤯 Controlling that amount of power in such a small box is quite remarkable to be fair so if a few go bang it doesn’t surprise me lol
Great vid and very good info. Ive been into electrics for about a year and own 3 of these. And have yet to damage one. But I do understand limits and amp draw.
I think it has to be something with the parts they are using, or manufacturing. I've been using Castle for years. I've had unexpected issues with my Castles. I still use them, but I'm not as confident as before.
Excellent Raz video there the power of the castle is demonstrated and the resistance that the failure has is in the users who are doing something wrong and then want to blame the castle, ufff what power the tp has in the water
Raz I understand what you're saying the Castle's are the best performers for people who want over the top speed but doesn't mine not that it may not reliable or have longevity. Hobbywings are for people who aren't looking for the over top power but good enough to give you some still impressive performances and looking for something that is "bullet proof". I hear what you are saying about all the prep work you need to do to safe guard your Castle ESC before use. I think since Castle is basically a "free system" a system without all the protections it is easy to blow them, but they give almost unlimited power. The Hobbywings have protections all around to ensure you don't damage your ESC but it limits the power you get. It's simply up to each individual to determine what they want for themselves.
Now you should try overvolting the hell out of it like Kevin did start pulling the kind of voltage and amperage that Kevin Talbot was and watch this thing explode
8:50 is a perfect example of society. We don't want limitations we want to make are own choices yet we don't realize we dont know what we're doing and when are world catches on fire they blame everyone else but themselves for saying they can handle it and they just cant.
Castle is good company for the most part. they should send them out limited but allowed to open it up at the expense of 1/2 or all the Warranty life....
Yes we need to protect this hobby if we want to keep going further in this it will be like nascar where everything is spec to the same and its all the driver but we all know its about being about to build our dreams and put it in work is what pays off great work my friend keep up the speed runs
Bout the mgm these are beter at continous current and higher voltages than castle. But according to my knowledge they are not so great with handling short bursts that are required for speedruns. And main problem with big MGM esc's is they weight up to 2 kilos and are meant for 1/5 or bigger models!
This is a great vid, i am here after your latest vid about getting flack aboit this test. I am the average RC`er, cars, planes and heli, no expert. I think Castle and hobby are the top makers and trust the brands. I follow Kevin talbots channel and think he is great and when i see his 2 XL`s flame out, i actaully said i think it must be user error BUT its not untill your informative vid and comments about high/low KV on the XL got me thinking,it is a equipment issue. CC should either put a warning about the KV`s OR at least amend it or look into the issue.
Thank you Raz you have answered all i was worried about and i now feel a whole better about this esc and your right if they take this away from us we have nothing im in the middle of my build right now and there is nothing on the market that even come close to the xlx2..... people if you have concerns about your esc's or eqipment in general be sure to do your research ask the right people the right questions even i got a little worried about the esc's when i seen some going up but after talking to raz and having a lot more understanding about this esc ive learned a bit and this esc deserves our respect it not your averege esc treat it right and it will out perform anything out there Once again cheer for the video Raz much appreciated
If all the 8s combos for sale have 1100 kv motors and someone attaches a 3600 kv motor to the XLX2 and it catches fire.....well what else needs discussing?
Well, there have been fires just plug them in. This does not prove anything tbh, only that your ESC was fine. And when they work, nothing can stop it. My self, mine died after 30 sec, no fire, friends that had flames, cogg issiues and never recovered. How ever, the new batch might be the key. I am greatfull for their support, but this does not convince me 100% that they are bullet P. Mine shipped out end of december, so i hope they adressed it..not gonna test it with my body on anyway
had 4 castle systems , 3 caught fire and the last one didnt even get removed from its packaging , one xlx2 that didnt burn immediately' doesnt cancel the many that are catching fire , the risk is there , burn up your rc car and battery so your esc can have a castle logo , or buy one of the many others which dont . load should have no consequence , something in castles manufacturing or design causes their esc to blow up.
