Phil I appreciate how you use simple English and a simple explanation. I find it hilarious when trainers want to sound like physicians using complicated language.
Great video explaining how to do threshold intervals! I particularly appreciate the cadence argument and starting high and dropping off is what also works for me.
Lactate is actually not what is being buffered at "Threshold". Lactate is converted into glucose, basically another source of energy that is produced when work is being done anaerobically. H+ ions are what cause the burn at "Threshold. Lactate and H+ accumulation just happen to correlate with increased effort. The crazy thing is scientists don't entirely understand why an increase in H+ ion concentration is a limiter in performance.
i've been doing zwift workouts recently and i ABSOLUTELY hate it when i have to ride at a specific cadence that im not used to. I like how Phil supports riding at whatever cadence works for you
Good to hear a former pro saying 3x20 at FTP is brutal. SO many 3x20's get posted to Strava by lees-than-stellar athletes which would raise my eyebrows. I very rarely attempt 3x20 at FTP, in favour of 2x20 or variants at good quality
Vilmore that would only be true if the session was 1hr at 100% of FTP. Otherwise you cannot assume linear extrapolation of the mentioned relationship can be applied to other durations, frequencies and intensities.
@@georgec2894 Hey buddy, I don't want to come across as lecturing you, but maybe to clear it up a bit. 1. That is pretty much the whole premisse that zone based/power based training is build upon. The idea that what is going on in Phil's body, your body or my body at threshold is the same. And that when we are doing 90% FTP intervals this will have pretty much the same effect. If this wouldn't be the case there would be little value in knowing or testing your ftp. It might not perfectly correlate but close enough to be used for workouts by millions of people at all different levels. 2. Phil doesn't speak about 3x20' AT ftp, that would indeed be an extremely brutal workout. He says just under ftp, also known as "sweetspot" 90-95% ish of FTP. 3. The people on strava might be doing 20 minute tempo intervals which is even lower than sweetspot and quite doable. And if they are saying 3x20 at FTP, then they probably didn't go hard enough on their FTP test, or they are extremely motivated.
@@LordVilmore the majority of us, non-pro cyclists enthusiasts, do our FTP tests indoors and from my experience the numbers will be slightly lower compared to ftp test done outdoors. I agree with you they are probably doing it at 80% FTP or less.
Hey Phil great video. Simple to understand and to apply. Quick question, what if I get stuck at certain power and can’t get through the 2x20s? Do I keep trying until I “graduate” or step down to 2x15s? Actually this questions applies to all training. It’s better to complete a feasible workout or try, and potentially fail, a hard workout?
@@luxsasha he is retired from Pro Peloton but not from hard training...... he still trains 4 times a week and does all-out KOM attemps frequently. He is still good enough for Continental Teams.
In my experience, these types of workouts will run you into the ground if you do them too frequently. I'm not saying not to do them, they're just deceivingly difficult.
Thanks for sharing Phil. im stagnated in my FTP. im doing quite a bit of Zone 2 volumes (300k/week) and i feel that i need to add high intensity somewhere in order to boost that FTP. would you say doing a threshold workout 1x a week is ok, or 2 or more? thanks
You can put out 300 watts at many different combinations of cadence and gear/resistance on a spin bike. Should the threshold intervals be higher resistance low cadence or lower resistance higher cadence to increase the time I can pedal above 300 watts?
Phil, question: Your example threshold is 385 watts, does that mean that your repeats are in the 360 range? More specifically, what power should these type of repeats be relative to lactic threshold? I have heard 5% lower but I assume there is a range.
@@worstretirementever That doesn't really track though does it? That's basically sweet spot zone where you should be able to spend a significant amount of time. My current workouts at that zone are 280w out of 300w FTP for 40m x2 with 10 minutes rest and it's not that hard. I've done 4 x 15 minutes @ FTP with 7 minutes of rest which was brutal but not sub threshold.
Do you think (especially in newer riders) these sort of workouts improve your tolerance to pain as much they do fitness? I kinda like it when its hurting so I’m responsible on climbs but rubbish on flat! I gas out on the flat but fine spinning up hills.
The problem is heart rate varies from workout to workout. If you don't have a power meter I suggest going by perceived exertion. Do a few workouts and look at the heart rate data. I find as I get used to doing a workout my HR drops slightly probably because I'm becoming more efficient at the effort.
Technically you could look at your 20 min max heart rate (since it shouldn't be much different than your 1 hour max hr) and then use a calculator to determine your HR training zones. What Phil's describing here is like Z4 sub-threshold / upper sweet spot work, lots of info out there about that. Pretty sure you could target 90-100% of your 20 min max Hr for these kinds of intervals
Hi phil, i try to force myself to 2x30. I can survive the first 30 but i cant hold the 2nd set so i end up doing over unders in the 2nd set. Any advise on how can i improve and or optimize my workout more? Great thanks!
If you’re super into cycling before your buy another cycling kit do yourself a favor and buy a powermeter. If you don’t care about numbers and what not then not needed.
I need to gets me a pwer meter so I know what 385w feels like. according to bike calculator around 43.9 kph on the flat in the drops no wind etc. Is this about what Phil or others see at that power. I got lots of flat roads around here.
If my FTP is 260 can I assume that 260 is my threshold? Also can I perform 2x20min FTP twice a week or once is enough? My goal is to increase my FTP to 300. Thanks
There are many definitions for "threshold" some based on power and some on HR. Even with blood sampling tests there are "Maximal Lactate Steady State (MLSS)" Onset of blood Lactate Accumulation (OBLA)" and a bunch of others. Even tests that rely on blood samples use algorithms to extrapolate data points, so they too are estimations (but very good ones). Assuming a LT test was done (accurately) on an ergo in a lab while you were being pricked, your results then need to be translated back to power to be useful. Given your power output is generally higher outdoors, you can see there are all types of variables in place. In the real world, the difference it makes to setting your zones is very minor and I would not be concerned about the definitions. The benefits described in this video are about riding just below a point we commonly call threshold . A few watts either way is not going to alter the benefits. Zones and energy systems are not black and white, there is a lot of overlap. If you ride too hard you wont be able to complete the session (the back end of a 2 x 20 will tell you) so it is kind of self regulating. Don't worry too much about definitions. Put that time and energy into riding your bike and hitting your sessions.
There's a local rider here on Strava in the SF Bay Area who is a former collegiate rower. He does the most "insane" solo rides where he routinely averages well over 20 mph (even with major mountain climbs) for 60-100 miles. I don't see any other (even elite) riders matching that in the slightest on Strava. His ability to sustain amazing, steady watts for hours on up, down or flat terrain must, in part, be a product of his rowing background.
Here's a workout: ride for an hour as hard as you can (probably on a trainer). Then you know your FTP bang on! Next time, (wait at least a week) try to ride harder . Voila.
