Worrying About Change in Wargaming 

"Change is the only constant in the universe" - Tzeentch

There are a frightening number of miniatures gamers who seem to believe that if a game is not "current" or "supported" it's not playable, or if you do play it it's somehow going to be bad by default. I can easily devolve into an "Old Man Yells At Clouds" rant on the subject but suffice it to say - you can play what you want, the Gaming Police will not show up and take away your army mans. It's ok to try new (err, old) things sometimes. Even things not made by GW (gasp).

"In the begining, new editions came every six years" "Then every five years, then four" "The newest edition lasted three years" "By next release we should expect to see an edition every year" "Fans, we should witness a double edition within 2 years." *Relationships & Wallet:* "And then we're dead"

Yeah that’s a nice thing about this analog hobby. Played my 2nd Edition Blood Bowl (with Star Players) a few years ago and it still ran the same. Change isn’t always improvement, but it’s so easy to opt out that it doesn’t worry me really. (I wonder if my 1988 box of Adeptus Titanicus still runs? I’ll test it as soon as I get the models painted. Any day now.)

I’ve been watching this channel for a little while now and out of all the channels I’ve watched this guy has the most calming and welcoming voice it is amazing

Very well said, I’m currently doing exactly this and waiting. The only people I game with are my son and wife because of the current climate. It just makes sense to wait sometimes.

Can you do a topic covering "Worrying about Balance in Wargaming"

There are loads of great games with rules that don't change basically at all. Look at Gaslands, for example.

I just use the old miniatures with new rules. Apart from slight visual changes the figures are still the same but just newer. You don't have to get rid of the old ones and buy the new. I veiw the new editions as just like patch for a video game. Just fixing problems editing bits here and there. But if something is older you can just, well use it. At the end of the day, you want to have fun. Fun is the reason most people play.

As a New Zealander, so glad I can get back to playing tabletop games.

Even if you want to play casually, you're going to have a much easier time finding a group if you're playing the current edition.

thanks for the advice Atom! i was thinking of buying the new rules yesterday too! haha, im really glad i didnt now though! this will give me a chance to maybe buy into a new army before i actually start thinking about a new book. My shop doesnt even have any tables open right now so i just need to focus on making my models look battle ready!

First off, let me say that I am glad that you are adapting well, after having seen some of these stressed out videos from earlier in the year. This actually was really good to see because my friend has some thing I call FOMO-fear of missing out- and it really hurts him when he gets talking about any of the tabletop game, for more gaming to any RPG you have to have a supplement for.

While I appreciate the mitigation of the problem in this argument, I'm not entirely convinced I have to say. The "sales cycle" of creating new content and making old content redundant in order to force "churn" is something that seems to be intrinsic in proprietary IP systems, and it's what pushed me out of GW games and into Historicals. At a certain point you can say "this army is finished forever and I dont need to buy anything else" when the peramaters are defined by history. There's no Primaris version of a Napoleonic army that pushes you to buy a lot of extra stuff to stay competitive. A dark ages guy with a spear and shield will be just fine for the rest of your life even if you use him in 6 different rulesets. Even with edition changes I've never had an army nerfed, Ive maybe had to buy a new rulebook, nothing like the forced churn for it's own sake to drive sales like I saw in sci-fi and Fantasy games.

It’s worth remembering that if things never evolved we’d still be playing Rogue Trader.

I'm not really sure I 100% buy the "you can always play X old game" line. I guess the problem is that wargaming is an inherently multi player experience, and if you can't find someone else who wants to play an older version of the game with you, then it doesn't really matter that you still have those old rules. To use Uncle Atom's own video game example, it's a bit like trying to go play an old multiplayer video game - you could actually play it if you wanted to, but the servers are gone. There's no players. Wargaming isn't really different - you don't often see people running tournaments and events for 3rd edition 40K, because the majority of people want to play what's current. I mean, it is what it is and a new edition has never been the end of the world - I just think that saying "technically you can still play older editions" is a bit of a cop out. Technically, you can - it doesn't mean anyone else will want to.

5:24 Something I love about Minecraft Java Edition is that you can play whichever version of the game you like, even the alpha and beta versions.

"There will be another edition of 40k after this one" WHFB Players: "Don't bank on that" :(

That quite nice but we still dont know what happened to this Fez

I think I prefer Osprey's approach to wargames rules, consistently release a variety of self-contained rulebooks and let the authors create new content. I'm building up quite the collection of Osprey skirmish games covering a range of settings.

Do not have a problem with rules changes, but when they change models and army comp with the intent of forcing you to buy new models heck with them. Hence the newer interest in historical's, a Tiger 1 is the same in 1/56 scale reguardless of the rules set, so you never need to buy a new one. A squad of German DAK troops are not going to change much either. But when games change things just to sell models and make older versions of the same figs unusable "because you need the new models" then I will play something else. As for third ed 40K...sure, still have my rules, wargear cards, tactic cards, and Squat army. But what annoys me most is the Fan Boys who will only play the newest supported game. Still have BFG, Warmaster, Necromunda, and Mordheim armies but good luck trying to find players.

Yaye! Shout out to New Zealand ! That got my attention. Gaming stores and clubs are back here. :-)

Well said, Uncle Atom. Thanks for another insightful video. I have definitely noticed an uptick in concern regarding the new 9th edition rule set (online, in my flgs, etc.) and I don’t really understand why. As you say, if you like the previous version(s), and your not a competitive player, by all mean keep playing the version you prefer. The only “issue” that I’ve come across is that the army list builder I use (Battle Scribe) automatically updates to the latest rule set. Now my army lists that I set up for 8th edition aren’t valid for 9th. However, this really isn’t a huge deal as I have a few option/work arounds, such as email my 8th edition list to myself, ignore the errors that Battle Scribe throws, go old skool and use a pencil and paper to actually write out my army list, etc. Granted physically writing a list out isn’t all that appealing or convenient, but you get the idea. The point is, it’s your/our hobby. Hobby your own way. The way you enjoy it. That is, after all, the whole point. Thanks again, Uncle Atom. You are the man!

Very good vid and as an older gamer I am starting to realise that the new edition isn’t necessary. Next to me is my 8th Edition fantasy and they still play fine. I started to realise this as new editions I found I wasn’t a fan of, like AoS, like 3rd Edition Warmachine. Jury is still out on the latest edition of Flames of War. As I’m getting older my deposable income can’t keep up either. This may sound ageist, but is it a young person thing? The need to have the latest thing. Maybe I’m wrong.

i think 3 years are to short,i liked the time between the 7th and the 8th edition

I must admit I am taking a wait and see approach to 9th edition. Given the current issues and my preferred army (Deathwatch), I have no reason to buy anything new until at least October.

Gotta say, after a good few games, 9th edition is a better game than 8th, so I'm happy to get the new bits and bobs as and when I want. I like reading the books and things, so I'll get them as and when I want as well. It's very rare that the sky is actually falling, and a new edition of a tabletop game is definitely not one of those times.

Entropy is a constant, all systems if left alone tend towards chaos. Would love to see uncle atom playing kings of war.

As someone who still plays older editions of games I appreciate this message. However older games are not without their issues, one big hurdle is the limited player pool available, as a good percentage of gamers will adopt the new editions. Change isn't always done to improve, but rather to promote sales. I think GW are quite guilty of this.

I think one reason people get irritated with new editions, especially for AOS and 40k, is that we love to list build and theorize about what army would work best. We enjoy working out the puzzle of the perfect army. I suspect for many people the challenge of list building is nearly 50% of the fun. Thus a new edition suddenly makes it impossible to engage with the hobby until the new rules are purchased and their ramifications understood, creating that sense of "I have to purchase this and spend more money than I really want to". I use to play the list building route and feel like a recovering addict every time a new addition comes out. Lately, for recovery, I have instead been focusing on games that don't lean heavily on list building (Frostgrave and Warcry for example). I like some list building, but I want it to be maybe about 10% of the game. When I do engage in GW's big games, I try and focus on purchasing only models that look cool to me, take my time painting them, and build up a story around the army. In this manner, I don't need to worry about whether or not I can "compete". My joy in the game should come out of seeing the narrative experience play out on the table, which is more sustainable on the wallet and my back log of unpainted miniatures. This means one army can give me repeated good experiences without needing to update it or tweak it after I suffer a catastrophic defeat. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts Uncle Atom, they helped me clarify mine.

Still playing 8th ed WHFB, hoping for some variety from when ForgeWorld releases their Old World Wars... ...love the old game, but when there’s only 4 of you at the FLGS still playing the OOP game variety is good.

Maybe competitive play is kind of the problem.

I mean it's true we don't have to get all the new books, we don't have to change editions, we don't have to get the new models and, we don't even have to play the game but at the same time GW doesn't have to nickel and dime us with codexs and apps that just open Google docs. It just sometimes feels like you're financially penalized for being part of the change and part of the Hobby. The increased prices of both old products that haven't change for years and new products is so high it's not only outrunning inflation it's outrunning the raises in a person's income which on average has not kept up well with inflation. I love Warhammer 40k and what GW are doing with game. They are talking with use and is not just some whole in the wall nerdy gross thing anymore. We are becoming more socially acceptable. The company has come a long way and I don't even mind most of changes. But I can't forget the egregious price hikes from FW and the sting of price increases and the high MSRP price of things like the new fortification for the space marines that's running $199. They do that at the same time they make some amazing things like the Indomitus box set which at the same $199 price tag is a great deal I just wish that set was the rule and not the exception to it. I see alot of people who cover games workshop seem to shy away from saying anything negative about the price hikes. Some even try to justify it as completely acceptable and it concerns me as it means they either don't want to say anything and upset GW or like many others seem to have developed Stockholm syndrome on the matter. I get it they are company, they need money but must they be so hungry and so greedy? We never hear about a price decrease on a old kit that's basically paid for it's mould, RnD, marketing and everything else that is used to justify the high price in the first place getting a decrease. Just my roll of pennies.

Excellent message that people need to hear. There’s two concepts that if you understand them it will make your life much easier. 1. Normal is fluid 2. Stillness is death

The thing I've always hated is warhammer 40k is not a cheap hobby and some times it takes you years to save up and paint an army just to have a new edition of the game come out and your whole army is now worthless because they changed the way the armies are structured / in my case just neglected to add the chaos legion I was playing as that had there own set of special rules.... Now I don't even play the game and I just paint models every now and then and make terrain for friends who do play... Games workshop killed the gaming part of warhammer for me and now all I have left is painting.

Great video. My fear of spending a lot of money and time on models and having everything change and screw up my army has continued to hinder my enjoyment. With the new edition of 40k my philosophy is going to be to collect and paint what I like and have everything to change up my lists and stuff.

I dont mind change. I hate having to rebuy really expensive codexes to play. Two books to play Dark Angels? Screw that.

As always high quality content, thanks!!

look at mtg for example - you invest like 300$ on broken deck in standard (not talking about multiple thousands decks in other formats) Next year after rotation your deck is not legal anymore and you gotta get a new one if you wanna keep playing competitive

While I'm very much not the doomsaying caterwauler that some GW fans are, change with GW when it comes to models can be an extremely mixed bag. Don't want to spend 80 euro on a set of Sisters of Battle? Pay 45 euro(the same cost as primaris while costing just over half the in-game points) instead. Don't want to play the smol space marines? Pay hand over fist for the new types with none of the weapon options that made tactical squads interesting and spend as much money as you would have on a single old command squad for a single Apothecary. That's not even getting into how ruleswise Space Marine players have now gone through four different books in less than that many years for their rules sets, and that's not even including Psychic Awakening and the Chapter Supplements. Sure, change can be good. I think people are justified in being angry about most of the recent changes GW has been making though. It bites.

Nope, it's called 'designed obsolescence' and it is a deliberate ploy to keep pulling cash out of your wallet. In my case, it convinced me to switch to historical wargaming.

Change is not a constant because the Rate of Change is also a variable. Welcome to Calculus 101.

Thanks for putting this up, a lot of us non-neurotypical types enjoy wargaming and some of us have more trouble than other, I think its very kind and compassionate for you to validate this.

Just started painting, the time it takes for me to paint a model i might aswell wait until the 10th edition until i start learning how to play this game lmao.

Nice, mature and reasoned response to change. Well done. Yes it happens, but yes you can still play 2nd edition if thats what you and your friends want.

My biggest gripe is building a whole army and and then having it completely ruined by a new edition or codex. Sometime a rule slightly changes, and you have to completely re-model your army to acommodate. Snapping off limbs and changing weapons isnt fun.

"If something stops to change, its already dead" - fancy quote I forgot the origin of

You don’t have to worry about change in 40K. When you walk into a GW store with $100, there won’t be any change.

Thank god I play Tyranids! We don't have to worry about change or new models!

Good points there mate. You don't need to buy everything or all at once. For example I have only purchased the Kill Team rule book and there's a couple of reasons for that, I only play the game once or twice a month and between my mates we have every supplement between us.

I had to stop playing 40k because of job situation at the end of 6th edition. I'm coming back for 9th edition but honestly so much has changed it doesn't even feel like the same game. Strategems? Warlords? Where are my vehicle front/side/rear armor tables? Where's my vehicle wargear? What is Power Level? Vehicles have wounds now?? Degrading stat lines?! Each army has mini sub faction rules?? I don't even want to talk about the laughably bad game I had vs ultra marines. It was the least fun I've ever had gaming. I like the new objective-based style of play but having to unlearn deeply engrained mechanics and relearn stuff that didn't exist back then makes me feel old and disappointed. There's so much new complexity I can't remember it all. Back in my day if you wanted this much complexity you played Warhammer Fantasy. Oh wait. That doesn't exist anymore. :( So yes, change is inevitable and fine. Some of us just can't keep up. Thank you for letting me rant/cry a little bit.

needed to be said! lots of people i know complaining about change when it doesn't matter nearly as much as other hobbies

My main complaint with the launch of 9th is that the last Space Marine Codex came out last year.... it’s a little bit of a feel bad to have to update 12 months later

I tend to disagree on this topic. If you live in a small city and the community gets the new editions, you "need" to keep up even if you don't play as competitve gamer. Rulebooks are too expensive, even the digital editions. The worst thing about this is "the new is always better" rule to sell new models, like in Necromunda when GW launched Enforcers and then Corpse Grinders. Think about the Primaris in 40K. Every new team is way OP than the olders. In fantasy happened several times for different types of units: chivalry was good in some edition and then suddenly was rubbish, you needed to get some warmachines or something different, I bet it's the same in AoS and 40K.

I’m super excited 9th is here but I always get worried my very minimal mode range won’t be good anymore.

Changes and updates are fine, but making models that you've spent money and hours on building and painting useless in the game is not fun!

I would think if you are going to start a discussion about change you would have to mention the AMOUNT of change. Is it a large amount, or small? That is possibly the biggest argument for change. Yes change is good and it keeps things fresh, but how much and how often? I was playing 5th edition Blood Angels, because I played 2nd edition Blood Angels. Then 6th edition came out. Now, 5th was overpower in melee. So what did GW do? Nerf melee into oblivion. As opposed to trying to, IDK make a balanced game where you could feel comfortable bringing shooting or melee. The game went from mostly melee to mostly shooting. And flyers need to be hit on a 6, need I say more about flyers? Also, I really like fantasy. A lot of people in my shop did. I get that some people thought it was too minutia driven. GW Answer: 1 page of rules Age of Sigmar. I didn't like the game. Both of these are example of too much change. I haven't even gotten into the rate of change, which kirioth just did a video on burn out which I feel is apt. Lastly, if you think that video gamers do not complain about change, or changes that need to be implemented, you are sadly mistaken. Video gamers complain MUCH more than tabletop gamers, and they have forums to do so. Side point: while forums bring toxicity, many, many great ideas have come from them. GW is behind the times for not having one for each game they have. Community ideas can bring some of the best ideas to the game.

To me that's part of the fun of the hobby... then again I don't buy everything, just the stuff I like. But I like the storyline moving forward, the influx of new players and everyone starting on the same page again for a few months.

It's all well and good to say "If you want, just play an older edition" - that's great if you have a regular gaming group. But even if you're not a competitive player, pick up games are going to be even harder to find with that philosophy. You might think that's not as common as people say - but that's because you've obviously got a group of players that you regularly play with. Given the way that modern work schedules and other obligations are, there are a lot of us who only get a chance to play rarely and not always among the same group of people. Sure, there are people who still play Third - but I'll bet they can't walk into a shop on any given day and get a pickup game with anyone. So yes, we're more or less stuck with the latest edition, and it comes off as kind of a pat answer to dismiss that - and typically comes from people who are fortunate to have a regular gaming group.

I think in tabletop in my experience the biggest change thats hardest to deal with will always be an aesthetic one. maybe because rules are not ever truly set in stone but the art is forever i guess? The most obvious example i can think of lately was Nightvault shifting to Beastgrave and dropping all of its aesthetic and colours for this honestly kind of foul '90's soda orange' colour on everything while shifting from things like ghosts and skaven to beastmen and ghouls. Don't get me wrong i have horrible taste so all the Beastgrave warbands were day one buys for me, but not for anyone else i know that played Underworlds. The 'Rona didn't help but even before it the launch of season 3 was a hard 'meh' and i honestly think that the biggest issue was the hard change to aesthetic and art that was so different to Shadespire and Nightvault.

Tabletop games fill an interesting niche in that their products are not perishable. If you like wood-working, you always need to buy materials to work with. If you cook, you're always at the store buying stuff. With TT games, particularly models, once you have an army done the way you want it, you're DONE. The only way to keep the money flowing is to get new players (not always easy), convince the current players to invest in a new army (can be expensive), or sell new stuff. The issue with 'sell new stuff' is that your current players have a significant investment in time and money in their current stuff and that's a BIG reason to be worried about change. The TT gaming industry is not readily sustainable as an industry.

Back when I read Warseer forums a lot, one user (Yabbadabba) was quite outspoken about this idea. You own the rules. You can change anything you want, and fix the game for yourself. Really, there is nothing to fear if you're playing with friends. Its trying to get games together at FLGS that is the issue, and where the edition treadmill presents a problem.

In my experience, Games Workshop offer us a few consumer friendly options. There's full blown 2000 point W40K BUT, there's cheaper and easier entries: -Kill Team W40K for less than £50. A box of models is all that's needed. - W40K 500 point Combat Patrol for 9th ed for about £75 or £100 with the corebook. PERFECT MIDDLE GROUND between Skirmish and 2000 point W40K -Both these options are easy on time, wallet and space. Models that last for decades like old Space Marines. The rulebooks always acknowledge the older models. Your models should never be entirely replaced, simply balanced by chapter approved, which allows GW to make money whilst allowing you to keep your models. Whilst I understand the annoyance around the rule books required and their pricing, like Uncle said, if you don't play competitive, you really dont have to invest. You can play with friends and family with old editions If you do, just thinking of the yearly chapter approved as recurring yearly fee, to keep the hobby alive and for you to keep using your models. As your models a one off cost, and if revenue was only generated through one off payments, GW wouldn't be as big as it is, as your models last ages (a good thing) It would be nice for GW to use a live online document, that updates, so just one book. But then I don't know how feasible that is for them to run financially. Books might be their main and only consistent revenue stream. That said Star Wars Legion has one rulebook, same with X Wing, and they have a free app too.

I personally stopped playing 40K about 10 years ago due to the fact it was taking 6 hours to play a game, I sold everything bar a few interesting figures and moved to other systems. Now they brought out killteam and streamlined the games and made them more scalable it's brought me back to 40K and I'm having a blast. It does get a bit annoying when you have say three version of a game in 3 years, like what happened with Dust Tactics with the switch over to FFG, which is why I stopped playing Dust.

(Edit: FIRST :D omfg !!! :-D ) I just dont like fast change for the sake of it, i havent even had the time to propperly play 8th and now they released 9th and i can throw away my old books n cards (as my two friends i play against go for the new edition)- and im porobably the only one remembering GW saying "no new editions anymore - just CA". They litteraly said that and nobody remembers... crazy and i thought i was easy to forget stuff. Also - i have a job, (and other life things to take care of) - hence i cant play tabletop all day long but more like once a month at maximum, often less. like once every two months. To give some perspective.

Tzeeche's many glories

That’s me, 3rd edition. My semi annual 40k games with family members do it for 2 reasons. 1: that’s the edition we all started on So there is sentimental plug and B: that’s the edition we know best....maybe some modification but 3rd edition core rules

As usual... excellent points all around. This is the kind of episode I appreciate the most...grounded, insightful and fair. 👍👍

The problem I have with the GW changes is that back in 1993, I purchased the Space Marine box set that contained plastic sprues that would eventually be known as the Mark VI Corvus Pattern armour. When ever someone saw the missile launchers, they would observe, “so you’ve been playing for a while.” When the 32mm scale came out, the size difference was not that significant, and I used the two sizes together. Now we have the Primarus Marines, and it appears that they are the replacement for the 32mm marines. When that happens, I won’t be able to use the old figures. Just like when they revamped the orks in the late 1990s. I have been playing “Battletech” since it was “Battledriods.” New mechs keep coming out, but the mech figures I purchased back in the late ‘80s are as playable now, as they were back then. This is true for Ogre/GEV, and just about every other game out there. I have no problems with the system changing, It is just I can’t keep buying more figures.

My buddies and I played 40k 2nd Edition through 3rd and the start of 4th Edition before we stopped playing. We didn't want to spend money on the books (We were poor high school/college kids). I'd like to get back into the game... but I don't know when COVID will let anyone get together to game again.

"What do you mean they release new editions?" Says a person holding the EIGHT edition of their game...

Uncle Atom got his haircut. Nice! May Grandfather Nurgles blessings be gone from this planet soon.

"People love new things but hate change."

will we start getting changes to make the factions cooler and have funky rules or are we just gonna continue to where all factions have a chapter master, lietutenant, and identical unit functions? When will ork players be able to turn their enemies into squigs again?

What was the point of Psychic Awakening when 9th edition came out very shortly after?

It is true the hobby is a lot of fun in all the stages, from drooling over new releases all the way to the ever evolving fluff and subsequent rule changes. I'm old hammer and been into it since the eighties. So much has changed, and for awhile I was sure all the new computer games would have the next generation of players...Instead it's held up and the depth of variety and options have become truly wonderful. Also the art made with gaming for inspiration has become just awesome. I agree that rule modifications should be open to any style, outside of tournaments it's the wild west.

Great information for new comers like me, Started collecting and playing AOS and 40k This year and didn't bother buying the new general hands book 2020 nor the other random books for 40k because I mainly play with friends or family. can save a lot of money and also it isnt actually required as long as both parties agree to not use those new books.

Have been in the game long enough to know that new editions will come... also to know that an entire reset of the game will happen (reference to AoS), so adapting to change is the easier way to continue gaming and playing with others (when is safe). Locally with friends we to a beerhammer or garagehammer just for fun and send most of the rules to the trash can and end up using house rules to make it fun for everybody...

This is why I only buy the models and only play with my own made up rules. The books are nice to look at, read up on the lore and stuff, but I never like the rules... they keep changing them from edition to edition and they cost a lot.

This video is SPOT ON... I have gotten deep into Kill Team...and love it.... I gave up on keeping up with 40K when 6th turned to 7th then to 8th all so fast we couldn't keep up with getting all the books fast enough... We have 5 armies.... for now, if my son and I get into playing bigger than Kill Team games, we will house rule some 4th edition-ish Combat Patrol kind of thing, and play 500 or 750, or even1500 points of our armies, on my 3x4ft game table...with our 6th/7th edition codex books... etc... Some day, we MIGHT get into 9th edition, or 10th, or whatever.... but not until GW has an edition out, as well as all 5 or 6 codex books we would buy...and all before the end of the edition... I got fed up with GW when I bought a codex that just came out, and a few months later the edition changed... this caused a few year vacation from GW wargames, and a while of only painting and collecting....and reading the novels.... Kill Team sucked me back in.... but I really love Kill Team and can get a LOT of great enjoyment from it regardless of what GW does in the future with KT... I can make 4 more teams, or 6...without buying ANY more books. ...if they make a new version, update, expansion.... I MAY choose to get that, but I could also just play exactly what I already have now, for a couple decades.... and still build some more teams, a box of Deathwatch or some Tau or Necrons or more marines to make other chapters, or.... those models will still exist, and that is all I need... I really enjoy your channel, thanks for the videos!

Lol pretty sure I have one of those shirts

Rule changes are usually for the better. I like the old 3rd edition of Warhammer and WH40K Rogue Trader, but the rules were not so accessible, and army building was tiresome. I am not so worried about rules changing, as long as the inner identity of a game persists. I need only say Age of Sigmar...(!!!) Also: I am not sure if you have covered this topic, but there are aspects of the hobby itself changing due to marketing forces. GW is a world onto itself. Some game companies have vanished, like Spartan Games. The DIY-aspect is getting squeezed out of GW with all the premade scenery and stuff, along with possiblly less and less bits and multuposing. Ranking up the old High Elven archers was a pain in the b..., and the new models are gorgeous pieces, however the possiblility of changing things oneself is challanged. In my opinion mini-games have always been a conglomerate of collecting, rules, world-building, playing, DIY/scenery and modelliing/painting. There are changes in all these departments. Bring back the wire trees and the kitchen sponge hedges! My Nordlanders will stay in Nordland, no matter what Sigmar does!

Great points as always. For me as I've gotten more 'into' Wargames I've become less worried about changing ruleset; the last edition of 40k I have the 'core' rules could be summarised on 7 pages only... and being fair I could happily continue playing 3rd Ed (change doesn't always bring betterment). That said I'm open to seeing what the new ruleset is. I do think fear of financial cost plays a part, GW stuff isn't cheap, and reletively I think it used to be much more affordable (codexes £8-10), but as you say, you can wait and choose whether or not you buy in.

My buddies and I have been playing Apocalypse 2019 instead of 40k. We love the 40k models, but not the rules since they are rather anachronistic these days. We come from other miniatures games that use more modern rules systems in a skirmish style with alternating unit activations, like Star Wars Legion, Song of Ice and Fire, etc. Since Apocalypse 2019 uses 40k models and actually has alternating detachment activations, we have been playing that. But now with 9th edition 40k and it's improved rules set, and improved Narrative Crusade rules, we are reconsidering our use of the main 40k rules. However, we have one major tweak that we are implementing to the 40k rules: Alternating activations, none of this my whole side goes, then your whole side gibberish. Goes like this: Shared Command Phase. Then first player picks a unit and does it's Move, Psychic, Shooting, Charge and Fight phases. First player marks that unit as activated. Then second player picks a unit and does its Move, Psychic, Shooting, Charge and Fight phases. Second player marks that unit as activated. First player picks another unit to activate, back and forth, so on and so on until all units by both players have had a chance to activate. Then shared Morale Phase at the end of the round. Brings it into alignment with Apocalypse 2019, and other skirmish style games with more modern rules sets. We have been having a lot of fun with 40k this way, and no plans to stop.

Excellent video. The only thing I am a bit confused is, why GW needs to update the rules editions so often? Let's compare to other tabletop giant, Dungeons & Dragons. They are owned by Hasbro (not a small company). But when 5th edition came out in 2014, they said it will be at least 10 years, until 2024 before the 6th edition comes out. And if you look at the sales figures of the 5e, it might take even longer. So if Hasbro can do a 10 year plan on edition, why GW needs to update things so often?

I'm glad I got out of 40k. Change is a constant indeed but the change in 40k is very forced. They make very little changes to the game (beyond just implementing the adapted wording of an FAQ). Tho they make me pay around 200 euros in paper.. let alone the starterkit. Btw on the point of not alowing the newest codex in tournaments, that's just ass. Any tournament should allow all official products released by GW. It's called competitive play and a part of those types of tournaments is that some players will find the most broken OP list they can make. In a well balanced game that's not a problem but with 40k's power creep (especially in 7th) that was never the case.

I don’t mind the change it’s just the amount of books you have to buy whenever they update 40k. I’d rather spend the money on minis.

Getting back in the hobby from scratch, with nothing to start with, I'm not worried about my old stuff being outdated or whatnot. And yeah, we'll toss out that caveat that "Indomitus isn't a starter set", but hey, it had the full rulebook and minis, so good enough. But, even aside from the lack of defining "Angels of Death" rather than every marine refering to the codex, it seems off to have to wait until October for the Codex. Likewise, Power Levels are fine, but having the Chapter Approved (for points) as a separate buy at launch is also a little odd. They should have (imo) at least announced or discussed the actual Starter Sets before Indomitus presale, to let folks know when/what would be coming. It's just an odd launch of a new edition of a game for me.

It is really strange how he talks about the change and that companies constantly refresh things. I work in the train industry and there is rarely any change. Why? Because the safety validations of new things take ages and tonns of money. For example we have some 30+ year old parts that were never good - always have problems. The company invested in finding out the problem. They now what the problem is - since 20 years. But the company refuses to change it as it would mean a new revision and the customers would not accept that.... Ant to me it is really strange how 40k can change so "quickly". I mean the customer base is used to the "old" edition.... I know there are more things that change quickly (like windows...) but I still find it really strange that 40k changes every what? 3-4 years maybe?

The thing is that GW never really fixes anything with new editions, it's just a reboot to sell more books, it's quite evident they don't even playtest their stuff anymore. Look at the amount of books, FAQs etc people had to have at the end of 8th edition 40k just to play the game, and 8th was supposed to be the edition that would get rid of that problem. 9th hasn't been out for more than a few weeks and it's already got it's first FAQs, is full of errors and imbalanced units/rules. Some people say "But it's because GW intends for the rules to be played with the new codexes", of which the first one drops in october, following the classic GW release rate the last faction in the game to get their 9th edition codex will get it right before 10th edition. I would actually embrace change in 40k but the problem is the opposite, GW keeps making the same dipshit moves edition after edition and everything stays the same.

I'm kind of having a break year from the hobby due to various personal things but I do feel like 9th edition was kind of rushed: They hadn't finished publishing the Psychic Awakening book line before announcing and beginning play testing on a new edition. I was excited to buy the faction book for my army once things relaxed for me in a couple months but now it's "expired". Obviously, 8th still exists in rulebooks but it will be harder to find opponents because it's a co-operative game and generally playing with people you don't already know well predicates playing with the current rules. I recognize that some people will complain about a new edition even if it comes out ten years later, for free and only with vital changes. Still, the change to 9th edition feels very sudden and like it puts a lot of very recently bought material immediately under the bus. People have to step back and spend the money and take the time to learn new rules... I sort of think that this approach burns people out on the hobby and I am worried that this may happen with me as well, so I do wish that you had taken a slightly more empathetic approach than "Change is scary and some people don't like it just because". I think there's a reasonable position that Warhammer is bringing supplements that are essentially game changing and required to compete in tournament and even GW storeplay at such a rapid pace that it's easy to fall off the wagon and feel left behind if you don't have the time or money to constantly be racing to the next edition. I don't play other wargames but I feel like RPGs have a much more balanced approach to this: Editions can last for a decade with constant updates that focus on non-required optional material (In wargaming, this could be stuff like missions, terrain, maybe even different game styles and army comps that players can agree to)...

people complained when GW were making 1 codex in 5 years. Now people complain that they need to buy new stuff to play. Nobody is forcing players to play new edition - they still can play whatever edition they want. there is so many other stuff to enjoy in GW games - painting minis, playing box games, reading books, playing video games. I personally think it amazing thing what Ge do recently.

Had an idea for a video! Without getting too lost in the specifics of point costs or things like that, could you do a video about turning one of your KillTeams into a Combat Patrol or some other 40k proper detachment? Would also be nice to know exactly what books and stuff to buy. Your vid on the full rulebook vs the supplements was great, but as a KT player I felt like I was missing a lot of context. Love the vids, keep up the great work!

I agree that change will always happen no matter what. However it is the change management that needs to be worked on. When a Space Marine Codex becomes virtually an annual book there is a problem. When paying premium price for quality product the customer has the right to expect some longevity for their money. Sure update a codex every 4 or 5 years (and every Codex not just the usual suspects) but every year or 2 is not ok. The current strategy lacks balance and that is the issue. Not that there is change but that it is inconsistent, inconvenient and managed poorly.

We all have to face a painful truth. At some point someone (probably Disney) are going to remake Star Wars.... yeh... I know how you feel... but once you accept that it will happen you will be ready for it when it comes. And as long as Gredo doesn’t shoot first - I’ll have an open mind 😶

I've only just gotten into WH40K and AOS this year as a painting hobby. My first actual game I'm trying to learn is Warcry. I'm wondering how editions go as far as that is concerned as it's my understanding that Warcry is relatively new.

The thing I don't like about GW now is that they have started updating model stats and points online. It's infuriating that they do that because I don't really want to keep up with those posts. I also just got back into it all again recently so it's a lot of new stuff. Also fuck space marines getting so much love. I play DG but like honestly... update Eldar... Tyranids.... etc.

Well the change between warhammer fantasy and age of sigmar was very alienating mainly due to the change in bases, making old models unplayable without new bases. THough I am looking forwards to what's going to happen with "Warhammer old world" in a year or two

I honestly think that war gaming in general, sadly, does attract many "manchildren" who are just really immature adults who channel all the dissatisfaction they have about themselves and their life .. into internet comments. Many toxic geek fandoms are afflicted by the same phenomena ... anytime people are having a good time ... these people have to swoop in and launch complaint attacks.

While it's always good to see improvements, my biggest gripe with updates is having multiple models made illegal due to arbitrary rule changes. I have an unhealthy pile of heavily converted minis that are little better than spiky paperweights. This was all a result of constantly streamlining the rules and removing choice in options.