You Drastically underestimated the Castle Crashers, they are actually stupidly overpowered. They can Peirce multi-inch thick steel plate armor with JUST a carboard tube, have basically infinite arrows and fire them at very fast rate, Shrug off hits from LIGHTSABERS and point blank explosions, swim AGAINST rapid river currents in heavy armor, defeated the evil wizard who stole the giant magical crystal (which even don't know that much about) which likely contains a ridiculously high amount of magic power, Go faster than calvary, and have you even heard about INSANE MODE. Case closed the Castle Crashers win.
Also, In Castle Crasher you can play as almost any non-boss character (although you can also play as the necromancer) including regular knights and peasants. So basically, everyone is that strong.
Tbh just the idea of the Lamb and the Knight/Shadelord fighting it out constantly on the island and all of the Lamb’s followers routinely being massacred and revived is metal as hell so a stalemate would still go hard
I mean you could say that is just a hint for what you actually use it for, but just because the knight could get into the lamb's mind doesn't mean he'd win there. But yeah that's a good argument, unlike transmog.
@@rubberduckees6105 I mean, it is implied in the lore that the crowns affect their minds. So even without the crown physically in their mind, the Lamb would still have it's powers.
something that Webber has going for him is the fact that in the game all spiders peaceful to him until he attacks so he could probably live in the silk cradle for some time.
12:51 since Lamb is the only one who can build (in his cult), I think he will appreciate Wilson, because he is a scientist who has many opportunities to help a cult
Lamb isn’t the only one who can build. He decides what gets built and can build things but his Followers can build everything he can. I don’t doubt Wilson might be able to build things they can’t though.
@@rougarabid I mean, only Lamb can create something completely new(Divine Inspiration), but Wilson in his peak know how to make all buildings from Constant (if he have resources) and it includes how to grow giant plants, powerful weapon and armor (for followers), after all, refrigerators, for food not to become rotten after 3 days
@@mrundercrow not exactly countering your point but I don't think food goes bad in Cult of the Lamb? the closest to that would be a burnt meal that's inedible and you have to clean up arguably that could be said to just be a gameplay thing but I'm not gonna argue either side of that
I know he isn't indie, but Wario could probably endlessly stalemate, because for whatever reason, it's stated in one of the warioland games I think that he can't die unless he wants to. Which is hilarious to imagine lamb stabbing him and screaming about why he isnt dying.
And transmog likely won’t even work against him, since transformation is a large part of the Warioland games. All he probably has to do once transformed is to get set on fire, thus changing him into Flaming Wario, which he can recover from.
Yeah, truth be told Wario is a complicated character to assess overall. Having him be added into the cult via suggestion is already a no-go considering his greed is too great to overcome in any realistic way. Best chance would be telling him he can have ALL the treasure he'd ever want if he joins, but that runs the risk of immediately making him want the cash outta em instead.
For Hades, there are a few things. 1. Gods can take physical forms, even the gods that are just places and concepts, as seen with Uranos as he needs a physical form to be able to be castrated, or Styx, yes as in the river. 2. Gods have shown they can destroy locations if they want to, such as with Atlantis. And while Atlantis was a large island, that still doesn't change that the idea of Demeter covering the entire world in snow isn't possible. 3. None of the main Olympians play a role in the creation of earth. They may rule over it or help with civilization or invent things for human civilization and culture, but they don't tend to create landmarks or locations for the most part. That would be the Primordials who we know exist in Hades because Nyx and Chaos are right there. 4. The columns not breaking could be for game mechanics. Keep in mind in his second phase, Hades fires blasts from his Bident that follow the player. And while there are various ways to avoid them, the main way is by hiding behind the pillars. 5. Zagreus isn't a demigod. While Persephone was half godess, she's still considered a full one by time she has Zagreus and leaves the Underworld. Zag bleeding red is really his only connection to being a demigod. 6. Zag's weapons would actually make him the most suited for killing the bishops, as his weapons were used to maim the Titans; who are just older gods with different abilities and a different title because Chronos chopped off Uranos' balls. Not to mention the fact that gods in Hades can't die, as Chronos was dismembered and survived but needed to put himself back together with outside help. 7. Zag would probably resist transmogrification as while the Gorgon heads and Megagorgon can turn him to stone, he can break out of it. Though I agree Zag ultimately loses because he can't live on the surface. At most Hecate hypothesized he could survive a day but once that's over he'll be claimed by the river Styx.
One thing to add to this is that Zagreus’s goal is to escape Hades and it would probably be the same here too. It would probably be in his character to allow himself to die and go back to the river of blood that he spawns from since he’s specifically tied to it. The only exception to this, I think, would be if Zag isn’t able to go back to Hades by dying and he knows it, but his goal would still be trying to escape rather than survive or stop what’s going on.
Olympians cans also shapeshift into animals and inhabit their own statues so transmogriphy wont work on them, or at the very least has a high chance of faliure
also his sister Melanoe can get out of transmuted form in a matter of few seconds, when Hecate transforms her into a sheep. Maybe a stretch but why couldnt Zagreus do the same.
I think you’re making the beheaded seem way too hero-like, he doesn’t usually act like that. Specially once he recover his memories we see he’s actually incredibly selfish Also the corruption in his world is not like the cult of the lamb. In his world the corruption isn’t just people being depraved the corruption is an actual infection that spreads itself quickly and unstoppably. He mostly just wants to save himself
Tbh Zag would die almost instantly due to the nature of his curse binding him to the underworld. He can’t survive long outside of the underworld, as his soul is bound there (he’ll die of “natural causes” shortly after, no matter where he is.) So, if the area of the cult of the lamb that he finds himself in is not the specific underworld which he is bound to, simply put, he will die within minutes. Though, that’s a less entertaining answer lmao
Your knight vs lamb argument just made me imaging the lamb looking really confused while the knight dashes and jumps and button mashes around in like 1 spot
It is also debatable that Webber only got instantly indoctrinated due to a combination of just being resurrected, and being a literal child, two things that would make one very influenceable.
@@rougarabidIndoctrination has nothing on my ability to burn myself to a crisp and wake up in bed after 5 seconds Or I could invite him to my town, give him some food.
@@rougarabid not that i disagree that Wilson would probably be indoctrinated, but didn't the gods only give in after being weakened? please correct me if I'm wrong I haven't touched cult of the lamb too much
he is canonically an adult in COTL, something that was decided by devs of both games since you can marry and sacrifice him. they did decide to leave out mating him though for anyone that doesnt know so they arent weirded out
What I did notice about majority of people bringing up about Hollow Knight is they focus too directly on the Knight's direct feats instead of other elements in result of how he would obtain it. What to focus actually, if the Knight ever hopes to defeat the lamb, is looking at the Void during the endgame boss fight. For what I understand how the void start to emerge into a realm such as the dream realm is through hindering the strongest enemy's influence over the realm as the Knight itself gain more foothold. And the void fully cosumes the realm excluding the strongest foe when the Hollow Knight is at the position to turn into the Shade Lord. Another way the Knight gained power is through the slaughter of enemies and gaining some.sort of power up else where in the realm, similarly to the lamb's path but without gaining members to uphold your own power. Just excluding the Knight for now and focus on the Void near the end of the game, the way the void interact with the realm is unique compared to the gods of Cult of the Lamb that had limited influence in an area. For the void, it is all over and present within the Void is an undetermined amount of shades/souls that could interact with the physical plane, giving how they aid the Knight by ripping a weakness open on the boss. Not sure what possibilities the entities could do in the void. The Void may actually cover up part of the weaknesses that the Knight itself could handle by himself. Given an uncertain number of entities and how the void arrives, getting rid of the Lamb's members for him and preventing an easy resurrection more plausible if the void start to take over the island. And with countless aiding on the Knight's side and with it not like other cultists the Lamb faced, this could represent a harrowing challenge for the Lamb. By taking over the island I mean by how effective the Void could take over, being shown ingame how they swallow the dream realm whole. This could possibly go either for the physical realm or within the Lamb's mind. Again, the main problem I'm seeing regarding of supporting the Knight is they are too focus on direct feats of the Knight without considering other elements that aid him, the Void being one of them. And if the Lamb thinks he could simply respawn, the Knight may not let the Lamb die right there, but let the Void consume them instead in the same fashion as the final boss of Hollow Knight. The addition of the Void may seem to be a very unfair advantage for the Knight over the Lamb that look easier to kill the god of death. Not everything that the Knight could able to defeat on his own, but with aid such as this he could possibly succeed. Actually, did you consider of power ups on the island that other indie heroes could use if in-game mechanics or lore from their respective games line up similarly in Cult of the Lamb?
@@rougarabidyou're assuming the knight is just gonna stand there and watch while the Lamb preforms the ritual and revives a dead cultist? That's as stupid as an anime villain letting the hero do their full transformation and power activation sequence. It's the logic of guns doing literal pixels of damage to a health bar but being a one-shot in the very next cutscene.
@@Arcana_zero_studios The ritual to revive a dead cultist takes seconds and he has 3 days to do it. As I’ve said The Knight can’t kill him so not sure why you think Lamb won’t be able to preform it
@@rougarabid because the lamb is constantly fighting the knight? seems pretty obvious to me that if the lamb could just do the ritual Wherever he wouldn't have any problems. HOWEVER their busy fighting the knight. 3 seconds is more then enough for the knight to just attack and break the lambs concentration or just shade soul them from a distance
@@rougarabidalso consider the charms summoning creatures, the knight could send down volleys of primal aspids, which we all know the Lamb would commit some sort of hyper death suicide rather then facing those freaks
Everyone in the whole game deal the same damage as far as health goes. Should I scale the cultists up to TOWW in terms of attack power? This is a game mechanic.
@@rougarabid one quick note, unless you already heard it, but the Beheaded is capable of changing bodies inside the same run (a Cultist in Fractured Shrines, or the Spoiler change near the end of the game), and he keeps all of his mutations. He loses them because of the time loop made by the Time Keeper. He still ain't beating Bishops or the Lamb, but at least he eventually beats all the minor bosses. Also, his goal isn't necessarily getting rid of the "corruption" of the kingdom. Malaise is a nearly incurable disease. Beheaded's goals vary based on endings. But it all boils down to one thing: he wants to survive. The Spoiler ending and the Queen and the Sea ending both have him do what he does in them for him to just survive (escaping the Island, or doing what he's doing in the Spoiler endings). He's really selfish if you take into account everyrhing we know about him, so I doubt he would go out of his way to just rid this Island of the cults. If the cults were some biological disease, then maybe he would try something, but mostly because he wants to save himself.
Lamb: *Turns Peppino into a bug. Peppino: *stings/bites the lamb. Lamb: *Slaps Bug Peppino. Peppino: *Turns back to normal and takes knockback. Lamb: "NANI!?"
12:47 I feel like if he could use his inventions or research to help aid the lamb like adding upgrades to weapons or existing structures, or add additional boosts then the lamb would be discouraged from sacrificing him as he'd be more useful alive then dead. Heck, if he proves his worth, the lamb might even gift him the golden skull necklace which grants the wearer the immortality trait
Oh wow! My suggestion not only made it into the video but was also the first thing mentioned! I'm honored! I also quite like the wilson argument. I don't think he'd actually join the lamb or any of the other cults, but I can definitely see him interacting with them. Something akin to Helob. This also isnt anything concrete, but I would believe wilson would be particularly difficult to control and indoctrinate not because of some immunity like the knight but because he has pretty much constantly been aftected by darkness, corruption, hypnotism and insanity thanks to the shadows and moonlight of the constant. I'm led to believe he's got a pretty good handle on his mind. I can definitely see him trading some knowledge for food and even swing by to say hello to webber, maybe bring the boy some ice cream since its his favorite. (And lamb doesnt know how to make it)
One detail with Zagrius we have to ignore for this premise to work is that...He cannot survive very long outside the Underworld. If he is not in Hades/The Underworld, his body will eventually but rapidly, die and will be sent back to the Underworld. So for this to work, we kinda have to ignore the fact that if he's in some form of Mortal Plane, he'll die before the day is up
To put an end to the hollow knight thing, it’s an infinite battle. The transmog ability you bring up would affect the shell and not the shade, which the shell is technically its own being. Neither one can reasonably kill the other.
he- he literally brought up the argument about the Transmog affecting the Shade in the previous video (not part one, a 'responding to comments' video) the best argument against transmog that I saw is that Knight could be considered divine and transmog doesn't work on divine beings (bosses)
@@fallen9997 this answer feels like a trap and I'll explain why: Cult of the Lamb, to my knowledge, does not included non-biological *enemies* that you can fight there is no canon proof to answer the question "yes" and there's no canon that answers "no" so therefore I feel safe in saying that this question just does not matter, as there's no substance to answer it without heaps of speculation
@@rydergolde3169 It's still safer to ssume transmog wouldn't work on Knight. As we all know, it ain't working on bosses, and the creator of the video estabilished that Knight would beat them and Bishops. And he also used the logic of "if X item isn't working on bosses from X game, it will not work on X character" with Eraser from TBoI, which he assumed wouldn't work on the Lamb.
Funny thing, Hades 2's protagonist actually has a better chance than Zagreus. Clear upscaling from the gods, Poseidon outright sinks an island iirc, and unlike Zagreus, they can actually survive on the surface, so they won't have the Zag problem of just collapsing when he gets there
5:53 the lamb has a strong mind, that didn’t stop the knight from slaying the dreamers, who were essentially the strongest mind of Hallownest and absorbing them!
See this is how we can’t even compare them. The Dreamers could be either much weaker in mind or much stronger but we have no idea because it isn’t quantifiable
technically as far as I know, the Dreamers were simply individuals who had to sleep eternally to act as Living Seals to contain THK calling them "the strongest minds" feels wrong considering... they put up absolutely zero fight once you're in their minds even Lurien, the one who is entirely against unsealing the Temple of the Black Egg, puts up zero fight to being killed and unsealed
I do have one important thing to note about Hollow Knight, it is a correction, but probably doesn't change the outcome. By the end of Hollow Knight, the knight obtains the power to successfully use the dream nail on even greatly shielded minds, such has that of the seer and The Hollow Knight. I believe that the lamb could possibly shield their mind from the normal dream nail, but not the true dream nail, which the knight would have due to the equipment stipulation.
@@rougarabid iirc, you said something about The Lamb potentially being shielded from The Knight's dream nail due to being a powerful psychic, but yes, The Knight getting into The Lamb's head is nowhere close to guaranteed victory for The Knight.
In dead cells, you say that he would lose all of his mutations in a new body, but in the game we can take over a body to go to a new location and not lose out on our mutations, and for hollow knight, can you use the animal transmutation spell on the bishops? Or the one who waits? No, and the shade Lord has the power to put down a God of light, so he would be up there with the bishops, and the spell probably wouldn't work on him Edit: also, with the knight, even if the lamb is more powerful in the dream world, the knight can't die in the dream world and he can try again and again until he kills the lamb
You could put a phantom in front of Wilson and he would ignore it as a "misunderstood phenomena" so I think he would be like the other neutral npcs that you can't control rather than a special follower
I think the only 2 things to be mentioned with Wilson is that he does resist mind control as we see in game and that he can locally produce Nightmare fuel through his hallucinations, which might see the Lamb favoring him within his cult and not sacrificing him.
the Shadows in Don't Starve are exclusive to The Constant (and Maxwell's personal magics) the only times they appear outside of The Constant are directly tied to Maxwell or The Constant itself... except the Terrorbeak that gave notes to Willow- point being, Shadows of all sorts appear as a result of insanity, and killing them just restores one's sanity (but yes, it does yield Nightmare Fuel) I wouldn't call beating a shadow to death to heal your mind 'resisting mind control'
@@rydergolde3169 I'm talking about during the fuelweaver fight in DST; it has a mind control attack where if your sanity is low enough it will "control you" (stun you for a few seconds cause gameplay) however this attack can be resisted by having your sanity high enough
@@stickman207 if it's just a stun then it's arguably more of a mental attack like Psychic Damage in DND rather than full control but that does give precedent to Wilson (and by extension the other survivors) resisting mental attacks if their sanity is high enough
I said the mutations are science which we know by them being called mutations. I know there’s magic but very few of his hax are actually based in magic
@@rougarabid does this list also consider the pancea, (he only gets access to it for a short time, i understand) and while i get you might consider it science, it turned a little scholar man into a semi-magic super soldier, and if said science is able to give magic, would that not make it magic itself
Skulls of the shougun turns the island into a 40k scenario. Random war general causes a forever war where both sides are in an everlasting stalemate and the only win condition disappeared when they killed the war general
Zagreus is the only character so far guaranteed to die within the hour on the island. Due to being born in the underworld, Zagreus can't survive in the living world for long. Base game, you die after an afternoon if you win, and once Persephone stops being by your side, you die before you can even reach her cabin. So either Zagreus gets revived at home within the hour, or he appears in purgatory in this word and has to survive at his max power for the start of a run (meaning no boons).
You are forgetting 2 things about the knight, first off, if the eraser from Isaac wouldn't work on the lamb, why would the lambs transmogrify work on the knight. Also that if the knight is currently fighting the lamb it can't gain followers because it would be to busy. And the knight has ranged AOE damage that coul slowly kill the cult members and then after they are all dead the knight could fight the lamb untill 3 days have passed and win.
Sure, if the Knight is fighting the Lamb, the Lamb can't gain followers, but who says the Lamb can't just escape the fight? And then the Knight has to either chase down the Lamb or ambush him at the Cult. Not to mention that the whole reason the whole thing about the Lamb dying without followers is majorly relevant is that the Knight could not win against the Lamb in a straightup fight
@@thyrussendria8198 say the lamb escapes, what then, eventually the knight will find the cults location and then the lamb wouldn't be able to escape because the knight is just as fast as them, and with the crystal heart they are faster so the lamb can't escape, and if the knight is treating the lamb like the radiance it would likely kill the cult members because they are "infected" by the lamb and thus unsaveable, and then boom eventually the lamb dies
I feel like Wilson would probably be too much useful to the lamb to get sacrificed. He would probably become the cult missionary and he is actually intelligent compared to the idiots that the lamb is used to indoctrinating.
Ye techicaly frisk will beat the whole island because saving and loading and resetting are cannon, and through determination frisk will win. If this is genocide frisk even more so because they can literally erase the whole effing world. Also if this is pacifist, she'll likely have sans, asgore, Toriel, undyne, and alphys. Who have either insane iq or insane magic.
Alright guys hear me out John Ward from faith the unholy trinity has a power level so high it’s incomprehensible. When this man loses control, the universe shudders in horror. He oneshots everything if he plays his cards right (or horribly wrong)
So what you are saying about Lamb being more powerful psychic than anything Knight has ever encountered is that the Radiance didn’t dominate the minds(that are not completely obsessed with something) of the entire Hallownest. Interesting point ngl.
Radiance didn’t dominate their minds. She spread an infection that drove them mad. Not the same thing. The Lamb actually dominates people’s minds. Like literally. Not an infection or passive madness manipulation. He actually rewrites who they are as people and even does it to other gods. Yes that is superior to Radiance.
My point is that Radiance didn’t “drive them mad” she made their entire existence dreaming about her They attack the knight only because it is made of void(ancient enemy) and Pale King(the person who took everything from her) Normal bugs, who were sentient do not attack anyone except the knight without a proper reason And Radiance gives them the proper reason They follow her commands and think that it is them who makes the decisions Husks in the city for example
@@rougarabid if you find my comment on the last video you'll see that the infection is actually on a greater level than physical. As for how well the knight does in a mental fight, well literally all the gods are based in the dreams/minds of others. Quick learning also doesn't matter much in this case when you just compare the speed at which the knight learns and evolves his abilities. All these together just give the knight a better chance at winning, you even noted how transmutation is the main won con and speed is heavily in the knight's favor
@@rougarabidI think that if the radiance were to actually come to the island, they would easily overpower the people there. Maybe not the bishops, but assuming they have the same reliance on followers, they’d be dead mighty fast. While the Lamb is easily a better user of magic, the Radiance far outclasses them in their hold over everyone. While the Lamb can’t recruit random followers, the Radiance certainly can, and judging by how the infection is biological, it could very well follow to the afterlife and render the Lamb completely out of options. I know this video isn’t about the radiance, just thought it was a bit of a lowball on the powers the Radiance has.
The terrarian from terraria has a big chance he killed the moon lord who is basically Cthulhu but his lower half is missing and has cybernetic parts being his eyes eyes skull the terrarian does have items that help prevent some things like he can transform him self to prevent the lamb from transforming him he has a shield that prevent confusion so that prevents becoming a mindless slave and the terrarian isn’t all good he sacrifices a person to kill a demonic creature made entirely made of human flesh if anything the terrarian can thrive because he has the power to rival a god and has dealt with curses before like cursed flames and also the terrarian can spread the hollow or corruption and plague the land killing everyone by bringing a foreign disease killing all but the lamb
Man that would be a real infinite stalemate, the Terrarian far exceeds the Lamb in power and skill, but they have no way of permakill unless they get all the followers. I say this because the Terrarian also has canon revives, as evidenced by the nurse telling you how many times you’ve died, and being able to view your own gravestones.
@@rougarabidthere is no fundamental truth with this. They are from two separate universes and we can’t really compare them. For all we know the lamb has a severe peanut allergy that could kill him even if he has followers and the knight is 0.1mm in our measurements.
@@rougarabidi saw some people saying that the knight charm Shape Of Unn might stop lamb win con (transforming ability) What do you think about that? Are they right ot wrong?
"We already know what would happen if Wilson ran into the Lamb." Webber is like, 13 years old, Wilson is a Gentleman Scientist.... that allowed Maxwell to corrupt his mind, no your right.
I think the shogun might actually be able to kill the lamb through starvation, with such a large army he could wait untill the lamb leaves to go on an expedition and then massacare the cult and ravage the site, after that it would be a matter of keeping the lamb busy for three days which should be doable with a large enough army so he can’t indoctrinate more followers
0:59. . .ok ngl "apparently my last 2 videos lit a fire under the asshole of EVERY SINGLE PERSON that has ever played Hollow Knight" cracked me the hell up
So about the knight. You said that all characters will be their strongest form at the end of the game, having its peak ability and such. The true ending of hollowknight is that he becomes a massive void creature of infinite power and can destroy heaven itself. Therefore, there is a good chance that he can destroy every living entity on the COTL island.
One of reasons why beheaded respawns isn't only ability to change bodies but also because the island is stuck in time loop So i guess this is where comes that thing with losing mutations And my theory is most likely true because in game you can change body, without losing mutations, but once you die the loop restarts and you lose mutations
The wizard guy from Noita would absolutely stand a chance against everyone. Its going to be hard to determine his absolute best due to his wand building, but I'm sure that the right wand build could destroy the entire island with a single shot. The best of all, he can defend against transmog.
Akamoto's ending is probably my favorite so far. a possible team-up that just fucks everyone else over, outside of him and The Lamb. Maybe one day someone will actually win, but for now this is the closest we have to a victory.
There is a few things you are forgetting about Zagreus. 1). The Transmogricon has been shown NOT to work against sufficiently powerful beings (like the bosses of Cult of the Lamb.) This shows that certain beings have an immunity to The Transmogricon. The most reasonable conclusion for what causes this resistance is either being a god or having been gifted significant power by a god. Zagreus meets not one, but both of these criteria and thus would be immune to The Transmogricon. (Zagreus is the child of Hades and Persephone, who are both gods, and is thus a full-blooded god. He also receives boons, which could be considered significant power granted by a god.) 2). Zagreus's attacks are very clearly within an order of magnitude of The Lamb's, and he has the power to actually harm gods, as seen in the Hades fight. As a result, Zagreus could probably best the bishops of the old faith in combat, if not The Lamb themself. While The Lamb can resurrect due to being a death god, Zagreus does have a chance to figure out The Lamb's weakness, and possibly might be desperate enough to try and actually kill The Lamb's cult. Or possibly try to steal The Red Crown, as it might favor Zagreus due to him already being a god of the dead. 3). Zagreus could run stubborn defiance instead of death defiance, meaning he can resurrect once per room, (meaning he just has to move to another location to recharge it) instead of three times ever. 4). Being outside of the underworld kills him rather quickly, so even with all of the above, Zagreus would die pretty much instantly. However, this restriction is due to the will of the fates, and there is a possibility the fates of Hades have no influence over the lands of the old faith so he would be perfectly fine. Or perhaps the fates would consider the lands of the old faith to be part of the underworld, somehow.
If the knight dies in the lambs mind, he still lives. Plus if the shade lords void touches him he dies; the whole point of the void is erasing everything it touches.
I feel like a good contender for actually being able to win is the black hole from Grime. If you haven't played the game, I highly recommend it, it is one of the best metroidvanias I've ever played with a focus on exploration and parrying as a major mechanic in combat. The story is told mostly in the environments and enemies, with maybe 5 characters that tell the black hole their thoughts, and they are to an extent unreliable narrators in that they don't fully understand the world they live in or the role of the main character (besides Shidra). Major spoilers, but the entirety of the game is about how the black hole needs to grow stronger by absorbing matter to kill a dying god from the inside. They have no mind to corrupt and can manipulate time with a ng+ system. Its first appearance in the world is in forming a body to complete this task, but the body carries a burden of fragility. When broken, it can reform itself at a nerve bundle by collecting scattered matter, implying given a source of energy it could indefinitely reform. The end of the game also shows it can and might ultimately become a pure bodyless blackhole when necessary. I don't think there's much the lamb could do to a being whose purpose appears to be to kill gods who refuse to die. The issue becomes whether the black hole will fight the lamb. I'm not super deep in the Grime lore scene, but from the game, the player is unable to touch a new god forming within the dying Parent, the Child, which the Parent limited the growth of for fear the Child would take the resources of their body and kill them. The black hole not interrupting the Child can imply that its only goal is to kill gods who should be dead but refuse to die. The denizens of the Parent's body suffer from its terminal existence, so the black hole is framed as a reaper freeing them from the pain of that existence, but the black hole is still without a head for thoughts or speech. Of course the kind of gods and their powers are different between games, but I feel "god who refuses to die despite being in a severely broken bodily state" describes the bishops perfectly, so its a question of whether the black hole is a thoughtless being programmed to go after such kinds of beings, or a creature capable of thought that can understand there's probably not tiny people living in these gods. However, the lamb is more like the Child in the Parent than anything needing to be culled, and they are remarkably similar in several ways. The Child is shown to have taken over the area it resides, overtaking the minds and bodies of nearby denizens tasked to gather materials. The subordinates get in the way of the black hole in the form of bosses, but the Child is unaddressable in the game. Perhaps to the blackhole, the lamb and Child are both new promising gods with a healthy-ish future for their subordinates.
The lamb has a stop time on crusade option so that makes it even harder for people in this vid, since the lamb only allows things to happen in his cult when he isn’t busy.
Hey Rouga Rabid hear me out, you said that if the knight kills all of the Lamb's followers the Lamb has 3 days to live. If the knight dreamnails him and enters his mind, he cannot die this is showed in game if the knight dies in the dreamworld he wakes up in the realworld. And the dreamnail has no cooldown, so if the knight dreamnails the Lamb for 3 days he could win. (I know that you said you wouldn't talk about this, but this could be possible)
Basically a form of psychic stun lock. Interesting theory. Unlikely it’ll happen though. I said The Knight could figure out he’ll die without followers but he has no way of knowing it takes 3 days. The Knight wouldn’t know to do that. In the Knight’s mind what is he holding him for? There’s also a possibility that the Lamb could just leave since he’s shown having no issues leaving prison dimensions. Definitely an interesting idea but it seems unlikely.
@@rougarabid i have another (extremly unlikely) addition to this scenario. The Knight wouldn't have to kill all followers and then trap the lamb in a stalemate situation. If the fight goes on even longer the followers could possibly die of starvation.
@@rougarabid okay, okay, hear me out, the knight could very well know this for the same reason he knows the weakness in the first place; reading minds. Forgive me if I am wrong but I'm pretty sure the lamb knows how much time he has, even if it isn't explicitly said
As a Hollow Knight player, I will stop coming up with reasons that the Knight would win or tie. However, might I propose the reverse of this argument, could the Lamb (and other indie characters) survive Hallownest? And to push it further, could they defeat the Hollow Knight or Radiance? (The latter might only be possible for the lamb, I’m not really sure) Edit: Also, great video so far
@@djmewtwo6981 The reason I feel this would be interesting the lamb is because it would have to get a cult in Hallownest in order to not die in three days, and would also have to find a way to get into the dream world to fight the radiance. Also, being able to turn creatures into bugs might not be too helpful when every creature is already a bug, not sure.
@@legendofdymin I don’t know why the video author didn’t say that but the 3 days sentence is game mechanics the crowns are empowered by devotion not fueled by it. Also he could just heal someone of the infection and then indoctrinate them
@@legendofdymin there’s a chance he might even instantly indoctrinate the godseekers which will be terrible bcs by default they have the power to turn any champion into a godlike being and they turned wall level knight into at least city buster shade lord. Imagine what they’d do to the lamb if he got them in
Now, I have a few problems with this. The first one is an answer to the Lamb’s infinite resurrection. The Knight is shown to have the ability to destroy the physical forms of beings in the Dream No More ending, temporarily putting the Lamb down before they regain their physical form. However, while in this state, the Knight can easily follow and completely obliterate the spirit form. We saw this in the Godhome endings, where the Knight was able to completely erase the Absolute Radiance from reality. Now, the transmogrification ability was initially difficult to get around, but I have a few answers. First off, the Knight can go incorporeal through their shade dash, but that might not work. However, the more damning evidence is that the Knight DOES have transmogrification abilities. Through the ability shape of Unn, the Knight is able to shape themselves into a worm and back to normal, so it’s not a stretch to assume they could simply shape back or go into the shape of Unn and then shape back. Even if this doesn’t work, the Knight will die in the critter form and resurrect itself back into its normal form. Additionally, if they do activate shade lord, it’s not as cut and dry as one may think. First off, the Knight has the command of all the shades, who have similar powers to the Knight, but this might not work. Second, the Shade Lord might be used as a final middle finger to the lamb, simply using it to destroy EVERYTHING. Although they might not be able to destroy the entire island, they can destroy cities, using this to just pick up massive chunks of land and throw them around, or ripping apart the earth of the ocean to create tsunamis. Third, the shade lord can summon shades to fight with them, and the transmogricon can only affect one at a time before recharging. (This might just be gameplay, not lore) Fourth, the shade lord can do its own transmogrification/shapeshifting, and fifth and finally, the Shade Lord can simply use its city-destroying powers to kill all of the Lamb’s followers, resulting in a permanent-death for the Lamb. We know that the Shade Lord might try this after associating them with the enemy, reading the Lamb’s mind or simply inferring it. The Knight is shown in game to have no problem with killing innocents, it has no moral compass, and can blend in watching with the shape of Unn or other shapeshifting and spy on the Lamb. And even if the Lamb goes out to get more, the worst possible scenario for the Lamb might take place. If the Shade Lord moves quickly enough, they could probably wipe out the vast majority of intelligent life on the island, rendering it near impossible for the Lamb to find new followers. But what about resurrection? The Lamb still has three days! Well, as stated in the video, the battle between the two will go on for a while, so if the knight is able to use hit and run tactics to halt the ritual with its superior speed, or even going in headfirst, they can slow the Lamb down for a time, at least long enough to kill the Lamb. Also, the Knight can veto many of the Lamb's attacks, as discussed in the video. Also, considering that everyone on the island isn’t immediately transmogrified whenever the lamb uses the ability, the Knight could use their immense speed to leave the island every time the lamb tries to use it. I have no doubt that they’re fast enough to do so, or at least get out of range. Additionally, transmogrification might only blast the knight out of their current form and rush their resurrection, basically doing nothing but create a shade that will be somewhat hard to deal with. Even so, they have their resurrection and possibly transmogrification, their teleportation and most of all, the power of the void. Also, a little bonus: the Shade Lord seems to grow nonstop once brought into existence, so if it just played its cards right, it could very well get to a size where it can simply collapse the island in on itself, burrow beneath it, cause disasters such as earthquakes, it could go into a liquid form to mess with crops, it can influence people, possibly getting them to sacrifice themselves so that the lamb has no followers, or maybe even just engulfing the entire island. This falls under the argument that shade lord is immune though. There’s also some theories that state that the shade lord is made up of every shade, rendering the transmogricon pretty useless against it. Second bonus: The dream nail is possibly one of the most powerful weapons the knight has in their arsenal. If the Knight weakens the Lamb enough, or if their mental barrier simply isn’t strong enough, the Knight can permanently destroy the consciousness of anyone. If they get to the Lamb, they will be transported to the Lamb’s mind, where they will fight. Now, if the Knight loses here, they both wake up. If the Lamb loses here, the Lamb dies forever. If the Knight kills enough followers and then locks the Lamb in the dreamworld, the Knight could at least stall the Lamb for a time. And I won’t deny that the Lamb is quite a fast learner, and would catch up to the Knight pretty quickly, and it would just become the same battle. But if the Knight used their advantage quickly to kill the Lamb, it would end quite quickly. Third bonus: this is where it ends. I’m not gonna add anything more here, because I genuinely feel so dirty doing so. We’ve dived into so many hypotheticals, and scenarios, and all that stuff is just kind of stupid. And while I do earnestly believe that the Knight would win, I can’t deny that it has some of my writer's bias involved, and I don’t want to continue an endless war going back and forth between two games that I thoroughly enjoy, and I’m not going to let my preference for one over the other keep me from enjoying content. The person who wins is the one that the writer WANTS to win. And although this video places the Knight as the loser, a vast majority of people would disagree, and they do, and if they were writing this, the Knight would win. So I just don’t think it’s right for me to claim my opinion on a matter as fact, so while I do stick to the opinion that the Knight would win, I can’t keep going. I hope y'all enjoyed this comment.
The problem with your Hollow Knight analysis is you never acknowledge that the Knight is a god himself, god of the void, and has been shown to completely decay things outside of the dimension they are in. Other commenters said this and it went ignored. Also, please do a section on V1 from ultrakill, I think that would be a fun analysis.
Some arguments I'll throw your way for the Beheaded: 1) He greatly dislikes tyranny. That's not really true. The Beheaded is selfish, extremely violent, and with how the end of the game goes, he literally does not care about anything but his own well-being. He had the chance to cure the entirety of the Realm by letting the final boss live, and he kills them. He doomed his society without a care in the world. Now, would that increase or decrease his chances of survival? I'd say he'd die. He would start killing cultists left and right, since he just enjoys killing things as he said at the true ending of the game, and while he couldn't survive against the bosses, he'd cause enough trouble to get their attention and then die. 2) He's still pretty strong considering the last update he got to his game; the Castlevania DLC. He's able to go toe-to-toe with the Castlevania Dracula in that DLC, which from what I've seen through the research done in Death Battle's "Ganondorf vs. Dracula," is actually in equal level to some of the gods in Cult of the Lamb. Saying that Cuphead can beat the gods in Cult of the Lamb because he beat the Devil is dumb, but there is actual power scaling of Dracula being a Biblical Satan in power level, and there's no reason to believe that the Dracula in the Castlevania DLC is any weaker than he is in his own series. To be fair, the Beheaded can't keep Dracula or his minion, Death, down permanently, leading to him falling into the same trap as Hollow Knight, but he is capable of going toe-to-toe with some much heavier hitters than we give him credit for. Plus, unlike with Kratos and Shovel Knight, the timing of when they show up in their own timeline is more ambiguous, plus since you can't really kill Death or Dracula permanently, it could just be that they came back again at some point and just so happened to do so when the boundaries between their world and the world of Dead Cells melded. I still don't think that the Beheaded stands a chance against the Lamb, but one could make the argument that he can be power scaled to the Castlevania version of Death and Dracula, who are MAJOR heavy hitters.
If this wasn’t brought up before, What about the Gungeoneers from Enter/Exit the Gungeon? Or Death from Have a Nice Death? Or what about Bunk Bed Junction from NSR? I’m trying to suggest ideas for a Part 3 of this!
Is transmog the only thing that we can use? It doesn't work against bosses or even demons at that point which are the many bosses Reason my holiday was brought up so much when it comes to him. Being a higher being, it means that the item wouldn't work against it. Meanwhile, the only way the lamb can use that ability is from relics. The Crown itself can't just transform Anyone on the fly? It's shown even in the trailer that he has to find these items to learn how to use their power. That's the whole trailer for relics of the old faith. And even then there's a bigger issue if these people trying to kill the lamb like the headless from dead. Tell going into the cult. It's shown in the newest trailer that's that's leading up to the new update. The other crowns of power seem to have similar abilities to the lamb. When it comes to weaponry and cuas shown in the goat, having The Crown of war and being able to match the lamb Although they are working with the land it still brings into question. What if one of these individuals trying to kill the lamb? Gotta hold of The Crown of war. The lamb is cocky enough to leave the crowns as decorations and their followers are so loyal that they don't touch them. But headless?! Headless is shown to be a Dick in dead cell and gladly takes weapons To give himself an advantage so if he dies he's not out of the fight. He just needs to fool the lamb enough to get to the crowns. And there is a bunch of Magic on the island of dead cell, including necromancy, where it's a world where science and Magic start to meet. Using the same excuse over and over again isn't gonna work. When in-lore it's shown that it does not work on these higher beings.
Also I wasn't gonna mention this part. Because I thought someone else would. But the only reason why the other bishops come back is because we defeated the person that's supposed to be in charge of their souls. Then lamb wasn't good, didn't do anything about their came back. The whole part of the new game plus is because we defeated Nari they came back to their bodies. And the lamb, the whole thing that they did instead of you know, bring them to the land of the dead is stealing their power since they didn't have their crowns anymore and forcing them into the cult, which is his version of purgatory at that point since no one really dies because. He'll just do a ritual to revive then that he needs his followers full. He can't resurrect people fully without the The rituals and you could argue that 1 of the relics do the same thing. But it doesn't it revives people and turns them into skeletons? Skeletons that can only be used for warfare only used as soldiers. And you can't bring them back into the Colt, it doesn't allow you. So if the bishops do get killed, then Only someone who is a God of death can actually deal with their souls. The person that was supposed to be in charge of that, the one who was fought before he can put them in their permanent punishment.
Saint might have the best chance with the ability to instantly ascend anything. While it does function like death it doesn't appear to be the same. I'm unsure if it would work.
*Zagreus approaches the Lamb* Lamb: *goes to attack* Zagreus: Let me stop you right there, sheep. As a Hades-born being, i can't exactly stay for very long, so-- *dies without the Lamb attacking him* Lamb:... well, shit...
Video is up for less than one hour and comments are flooded with counter-arguments on the Knight for the third time. I'm munching my popcorn on the fight between comments and RR at this point. I cheer for both.
I cheer for neither. They are just uncomparable. I guess I’m more on the knight’s side just because void is really strong but we have no idea how they would scale against each other because we don’t even know the scale of their games. Maybe the knight is as tall as Godzilla and the lamb is a small as a bug. For all we know that’s what their size would be.
The point of the knight entering the mind of other creatures is pointless, they only do so once the person who’s mind is trying to enter is dead or an exception like the dreamers, hollow knight, or godhome, all of which possess other facets in their mind, the dreamers are sealed in their minds, the hollow knight has radiance, and the godseekers have godhome. The dream nail doesn’t create portals most the time, especially not on living things, it would just let the knight read the lambs mind, and considering the lamb is aware of abilities like that, it would likely be ineffective. There’s no reason to believe that the knight would be able to enter the mind of the lamb unless the lambs mind was opened in some way. That aside, I noticed you didn’t bring up the transmographer, which you said was the lambs win con. Has something changed your mind of its effectiveness, or did you see it as something not worth mentioning? All that being said, I’d say neither the lamb nor the knight has a confident way of killing the other, meaning it would be a stalemate.
yeah... uh that's just not true.... the reason you do not enter the dream world whenever facing base enemies or bosses is because it would be too much work for the devs; they've stated this. two of the dream nails functions are reading minds and entering the dream world, so they made you use the former on enemies, NPCS, and bosses because its easier
about wilson, he has actually died several times in the lore of dont starve. in fact, every character has. the different worlds you create in dont starve are basically just new attempts of the survivors surviving and maybe finding a way to escape the constant, since death would just start the cycle over and over again. but this isnt the constant, so he could potentially die for good if he runs out of amulets or meat effiges. but this is where my theory comes in. the lamb doesnt always try to indoctrinate _everyone_. plimbo for example is just a guy selling him stuff. even after he bought everything, he still accepts him not being a cult member. same with most other shopkeeps or just generally people of interest. so i think that if the lamb were to meet wilson, he would likely just help him stay alive by reviving him if necessary, in exchange for like science stuff or just wilsons general craftiness and his capability to create some handy gadgets or even some magic components for the lamb to use. like for example telling the lamb about touchstones or life giving amulets for the lambs followers, or teaching followers how to survive more effectively while the lamb is on crusades. all in all, i agree with most of the things you say, with just some disagreements or different views. it could be interesting if you could include charlie from dont starve in the next video too though. :D
It’s so interesting seeing people argue that feats need to showcase destructive capabilities in order to be viable. Cause that’s just… so not the case It’s the same way a character can scale to a feat without showing that same level of destructive capability themselves. A character can have high attack potency without showcasing high destructive capability By that note, creating enough light to illuminate an entire planet or creating a planet wide snowstorm requires a ton of energy, which would mean a high attack potency with a minimal destructive capability (even though minimal is being generous since Demeter still froze the entire oceans). Given Demeter weaponizes her storm abilities, there’s little reason for it to not be a viable feat and for Zagreus to not compare
Yeah, but he doesn't want the lamb to lose. Could we throw the sun scaling out? Yeah, probably. But even then he still at minimum scales continental due to scaling to the Olympians via scaling to Hades even boonless at EM4. And even more so, he also resists transmog, as he can be turned to stone by the Medusas in the game and break out of it very quickly. Sure, he's not very durable compared to his attack potency, but he definitely has a way better chance than explained here. He also forgot that instead of regular death defiances Zag can also have *Stubborn* defiance, which comes back after every room, so he could simply escape with his greater speed to recover it and fight again. The one big problem is him dying on the surface, which can be dealt with two ways that might change outcomes. 1 - The Fates have no authority over the land of the old faith, and therefore he doesn't die there. Still allows him to respawn back in the house of hades, but not on the island, and therefore he only has the one shot to do it. Also the same as his curse being broken like with Melinoë. 2 - His respawn point is set on the island, and it counts as the "underworld". This effectively guarantees his victory, but seems a bit unfair... though with the Lamb also respawning, maybe not, since he is giving the lamb that advantage.
@@AliceIsSleepy Doesn’t help that the shot of the One That Waits being giant is very clearly not meant to be taken literally, so already the lamb’s using inflated stats
Little note to the dream fight between lamb and knight. The Awoken Dream Nail can break into any mind, no matter how strong and if thi knight dies in a dream he doesn't die irl (not even in steel soul mode) and since the knight is faster than the lamb, he can repeatedly dream nail the lamb until all of its followers dissent or die somehow and the lamb dies with them. (There are also some other arguments ither than this one, showing that lamb vs knight would be a stalemate if knight doesn't win. A stakemate meaning that lamb won't have time to take care of his followers and dies. This is kind of what the pale king from Hollow Knight did to radiance he made it impossible for radiance to gain more followers by trqpping it.)
Since the Knight has been a constant presence in this series, how about a character that people often put against the Knight? Ori from the Ori series, i don't think he can beat the Lamb but i am specificaly curius what you think the tree of life version of Ori appearing on the island would be like, i just think the thought of this massive fucking tree that's actualy really powerful and stupidly bright appearing in the middle of the island and everyone is like "huh???"
i honestly believe Wilson would become a special character like Midas, who would introduced liked technology to the cultists Edit: if Wilson Joins the Lamb, then it would be argued that he's worth more alive than sacrificed
i have a question, Didn't Beheaded defeat Dracula in a crossover with Castelvania?, does that count as canon for dead cells?, because i hear dracula is pretty strong in the games.
True if we say the castlevania crossover is canon the beheaded has not only beaten death itself but olso its boss dracula both of whom are really powerfull and the beheaded servived a reality cutting slash from the queen so if we see the castlevania dlc canon. The beheaded has actually a great chance to not only survive but beat the most powerful beings in colt of the lamb because dracula from castlevania is op but if not then not so much.
Although Zag wouldn't make it outside of the underworld, period... He does have one thing that would save him from the transmog. I forgot who gives it to him, but he does have a shield of attack immunity that not only negates all damage, but all effects for one attack - and it regenerates once a minute.
It's unlikely they could beat the strongest of foes, and yeah they aren't immune to being transformed since they do it to themselves. However, they would probably be very likely to survive. They have no reason to fight the lamb due to it not having more legs than 2, but they would definitely fight the bishops. While the bishops are strong, I feel like nukes are generally quite an effective way to defeat them. They could even start their own sort of underground following as they appear to for some reason have the ability to mind control or instantly kill weaker bugs. Due to them living underground they would likely be quite safe.
Here’s my two cents: Wilson can kill the Bishops. His weaponry is insane, and Kallamar doesn’t stand a chance due to Wilson having a Morning Star, a weapon that does more damage based on how wet someone is. He has the thulecite club, the Lunar armor, plus he could stalemate the lamb
Forgot a suggestion for one of these: helltaker. Dude is roughly lightspeed in reactions ( maybe slightly slower, but not by a large amount), storms through hell whilst his soul is under attack ( as shown by the moves remaining thing) and can kick around boulders which are about as large as he himself is ( not too clear if they're slightly bigger or smaller or what, but seemingly about the same size, and hes pretty big himself)
With Zagreus it is stated that the fates will weaken him to the point of killing him while the surface which is the reason he dies after reaching the surface at the end of each run. Granted one can argue that the absences of the fates mean there might not be a curse but with the curse he will die within minutes.
Dead Cell's Beheaded has the Ferryman's Lantern though if he has ALL of his weapons. He can collect the souls of every cultist he kills and use them as a weapon against the cults.
On the Zagreus part I have some notes to make. Firstly you either need to make the island count as the underworld or say this is a hypothetical version of Zagreus who has had the bloodline curse lifted to allow him to walk the surface. Second, On death he would simply respawn back home in Tartarus from the Stygian pool. Third and finally. Zagreus could be argued to have some transmog resist. In the sequel game Hades 2 you play as Melinoe , Zagreus's sister born after the events of the first game and in one boss fight you can get hit with a hex that turns you into a sheep. This wears off after a short time (maybe 5-10 seconds) so it could be argued that the Transmog resist that Melinoe shows could an innate trait from their blood as Melinoe doesn't appear to do anything specific to overcome the sheep transmog aside from just wait it out. With those said, I see this playing out one of three ways. 1: Baby's first X-fic Zagreus arrives on the island around the start of the game's events and sees how fucked it is. He goes to try and deal with the issue himself resulting in him and the lamb running into each other while crusading. Zagreus explains who he is, The lamb does the same and explains his goals and the two decide to work together. (Being Greek and a direct relative of Dionysus Zag is no stranger to cults). All lamb needs to do is keep the more depraved cult rituals out of Zag's sight and he has a very powerful ally with him. 2: Clash of the titan slayers Zagreus crashes during the Late game, The lamb has already ascended to death god status. Zag happens on the cults grounds and before being spotted he does some observations, seeing the cult of the lamb's depravity first-hand. He eventually gets spotted and either statemated or insta-kill gimmicked by the lamb (Assuming he has enough of those to chew through at least 2 death defiances resulting in a trip back home. On his return Zagreus explains where he was and what just happened to him. Outraged and afraid of other gods existing out there Hades and Persephone send word to the Olympians informing them of the situation. The entire greek pantheon then descends upon the island and using their combined might dogwalk to Lamb and bishops (They are the literal greek gods don't tell me this isn't something they couldn't do). Even if you want to say the transmog thing would work on them Hecate is right there. God of witchcraft and crossroads. Completely shuts down any attempt at that. 3: New world order Zagreus arrives on the island at the just before the events of the game kick off. Maybe he sees the lamb being dragged to the execution and in that moment of distraction crashes his ship causing him to land on the island or drown. He manages to save himself and but the boat is un-usable. He then goes inland seeking shelter before encountering The lamb and Ratau at the cult's base during the tutorial. Interrupting it and offering to assist the lamb in exchange for shelter and an explaination. The lamb agrees and Zagreus technically becomes a follower in the same way the lighthouse cult or Midas is. The lamb then basically speedruns the game with Zagreus serving as the Lamb's blade / enforcer while also keeping the lamb on a somewhat straight and narrow path, this results in the lamb effectively turning the cult into a greek colony. Game progresses as normal. Lamb ascends to Shinigami-hood and then eventually Zagreus's family comes looking for him. Hermes being the one to locate him. The island is then offically made a greek territory. The end.
If we use Greek mythology and scale him to zues, zues has picked up a mountain and thrown it on someone before so there's that. Nike would beat the Lamb and Goku
