Not a single scene of Riyaaz was shown in the series. Tawaifs were known for their rigorous Riyaaz, and their performances were unparalleled, a level of artistry that's missing in today's era. We've lost a significant treasure of art with them. I completely agree with your perspective, it's gender based discrimination and the commerical cinema misguiding the public by portraying wrong historical facts just to make money!
Bhansali not only misrepresented the culture and language of Punjabi city Lahore but also stole music and scene sequences from Pakistani punjabi movie. The Hit song "Masoon dil hai mera" is stolen from "Zindigi tamasha bani". This is the original song and its on youtube /watch?v=5HUtqXv9cvg
The tawaifs themselves explicitly insisting that they were not pr0stitutes is especially disheartening when I think of the Korean subtitles of Heeramandi. In the series description and whenever the word "courtesan" is mentioned, it's translated as "changbu" which means "pr0stitute." This is likely because the subtitles were translated from English and the word "courtesan" in the English-Korean dictionary simply translates as "high-class pr0stitute." What's extra frustrating is that Korea used to have a similar class of female artists/performers called gisaengs or ginyeo, so translating the word as "ginyeo" would have not been more accurate but respectful. I've been sending feedbacks to Netflix but I'm only one person so...😭 I agree that the show didn't show enough of tawaifs as artists or their rigorous training, and surprised that there was no mention of their movie industry connections. (there were some references to the record industry but very minor, I wish Saima had a bigger part.) The character Alamzeb does read often, love books and wants to be a poet, but her actress is extremely wooden so I won't blame you for erasing her from memory😅
Alamzeb is personally interested in poetry because she wants to become a “shayara” and not be a “tawaif” so her poetry is in fact not shown as being compatible with the trade
Madam, it is a very interesting piece of Information. Yes. The British were not aware of the Indian culture when we became their colony, specially during the Victorian period. As it is the British of that period thought no end of themselves. It was a nation of shopkeepers. Therefore we lost a Very interesting culture of the singers Sad indeed. Even South India had such culture and the famous BharatNatyam dancer was BALASARASWATI, later on There were other good dancers too.
The last part was really thought provoking..how men can proudly claim to be ustads, from this gharana that gharana, while women who performed the same art at the same place were reduced to sex workers. Classical singer kaushiki also mentioned that so many thumris sung by men were written by female courtesans and we just forget the real artists behind them. Tragic
Have recently realized a lot of people are hardcore SLB fans and want to really live in his overdecorated-aesthetic forward yesterworlds and they’ve adopted his sensibilities for lack of any organic ones around so…yeah must be triggering
People have lost a sense of the divine in their hearts and lives, so they idolise people and get addicted to entertainment and circuses, rather than understand reality. I see it all the time. Almost possessed by the world.
This is a very insightful and profound interview. Especially drawing parallels between Male artists being called Ustaad and generations taking pride in it versus Female Artists with same caliber and art being looked down upon and Tawaif as a title not holding equal respect as that of 'Ustaad'.
Thats what i felt when I saw Heeramandi. If you remember Umrao Jaan and how Muzaffar Ali potrayed the character of Rekha.. she sits with a urdu teacher/molvi to have her ghazal edited. She perfects her ghazal and sings it on her first mujra. When Farooq sheikh listens to her first nazm/ghazal while passing by the road, he is mesmerized by her rendition of the ghazal. He is attracted to her as an artist, a poetess, a singer. Wierd thing about Heeramandi is someone who wants to be a shaira/poetess has no value at Heeramandi. End of the day Sanjay Leela Bansali's portrayal of the tawaifs renders them as cheap sluts/dancers in expensive clothes and jewellery. They are not learned women nor epitome of grace and tehzeeb nor artists. They are not shown as people who take their craft seriously.
Very interesting observations on Umrao Jaan, while Asha Bhosle did an amazing job of the ghazals in that movie and suited Rekha’s voice, it was more contemporary than representative of its times, I wonder if a more traditional voice would have lent more authenticity to the songs like of the great thumri and ghazal singers who had a deeper sonorous intonation.
Well it always depends on who’s making the movie? Is he well informed? He did not bother to do that , most directors , producers are focused on their own agenda, making money, no interest in Authenticating stories , pathetic
Bhansali not only misrepresented the culture and language of Punjabi city Lahore but also stole music and scene sequences from Pakistani punjabi movie. The Hit song "Masoon dil hai mera" is stolen from "Zindigi tamasha bani". This is the original song and its on youtube /watch?v=5HUtqXv9cvg
I am a Kathak dancer and a teacher too. You are absolutely correct and this type of wrong message from Bollywood and social media leading many people to do anything in the name of Kathak. And not learning any Indian classical heritage properly. Guru Rajeshwari Sharma posted a video few years back just to tell Madhuri Dixit to stop her from teaching wrong Kathak . Thank you so much ma'am for this video......and narration is very apt and hope that young generation must know about our culture.
The famous celestial Carnactic Classical singer, MS Subhalakshmi, belonged to the Devdasi community. It's Devdasisis who preserved Indian arts and culture.
The Devadasi community underwent the same problem as tawaifs. Initially they were artists dedicated to the temple . With the arrival of the British they got labelled as characterless and the art took a back seat
Girl,I have seen an interview of a very old man talking about real life devdasis from his youth and how they were used as high class pr0stitutes by British officials and temple authorities.What are you blabbering about???
Great interview. William Dalrymple has given a very detailed description of how important tawaifs were in preserving refined culture in / up to the Mughal era, in his book The Last Mughal. Their portrayal by Bollywood as glorified objects of sexual pleasure shows how clueless movie makers are of their own country’s history.
@@bive4167 When a male singer sings in a darbar he is called Ustad , quite a respectable word but when a female singer performs in the same place she is called a tawaif, a degradable word .
I dont think ustad used to sleep with nawabs. But tawaifs would sleep that's why no respect. They are not prostitutes because they are not sleeping with different men at the same time but only one nawab at a time. But it doesn't change the fact that they used to sleep with nawabs for money and luxury@@SingerKeyaa
Oh man! I slowly realised watching this video, that I've seen Ms Manjuri Chaturvedi perform with the last living singer of the Awadh Court, Zarina begum, in Delhi some 10 years ago !! I was stunned at the magic they both created.
completely agreed with you Ma'am, when a so called A Director with a Noble Heart demands that he shows respect to Tawaef - then why they only portraying the seductive and physical aspect of this women!!!! If they by heart try to establish the fact that Courisans were qualified cultured , elit class children had been sent to learn etiquette and literature so why don't this Great film directors shoot a single scene related these facts or any kind of learning season or discussion on Classical dance ,Music or Literature etc!!!!! A whole gigantic seris only depict lust, women body, worthless meritless compositions and ofcourse the dance of all novice dancers !!!!!!
I really really wished every second that i watched the show to see even a little glimpse of the art part of the heeramandi. I just wanted to see women discussing art and studying it in the way they would've back then. But i only saw the tragic part and that disappointed me because they could've done SO much. In the end, the women just felt like they were reduced to seduction and jhagda and politics. But then again, that was one of the main motives of Sanjay Leela bhansali after all.
Those are the exact same issues i had with the portrayal of tawaifs in Heeramandi. Instead they just showed them as cheap prostitutes salivating over the wealth of nawabs and the power of british officers. There's no denying that tawaifs did prostitute themselves but they were artists before they were prostitutes.
I think people are partly reacting to the kind of critique where tawaifs are distinguished from prostitution by talking about the latter as low and cheap and trying to make sure tawaifs come off as superior
But to give some credit this is set in 1940s when Britishers had already taken incharge of whole India. And they vilified Tawifs as "prostitute". Leading these women seeking powerful men just to survive. And this isn't just Twaifs. Devdasi, Geshia, Ballet, Belly Danceers (not talking about the movie s-xualized version but actual ones) , pretty much all the Tawif counterparts in whole world end up regressed to s-x slave because of male dominance and shifting politics.
@@Vor567tez fair enough. But instead of wasting time on that nonsense main love story they couldve shown that contrast. Maybe they couldve shown how the colonization corrupted tawaifs while showing the history between Malika jan and Rehana...
Extremely well explained, I understand now what the role of Tawaif was in the society and how it was misinterpreted through decades. I was never a fan of Sanjay Leela Bhansali because of his unrealistic portrayals of historic figures. This dude has just one job and that too he miserably fails every time. He is more like a Tent wala with all the lightings and fake sets rather than a cinema maker.
Thank you for sharing this. This is a problem i have noticed in heeramandi n to an extent in the other bhansali movies too. . . Where women are repeatedly reduced to these enchanting, titillating n tragic characters. Yes, bhansali can showcase his characters any which way he wants in d name of artistic license. But I thought artistic license was also about shocasing different perspectives or dissolve boundaries, and what does bhansali stand to gain when all his female characters start to have the same vibe across movies( i am to referring to the romantic storylines here). Where the grandeur of d set n costumes take precedence over showcasing of character complexities. Where the idea of love n tragedy takes precedence over showing love n tragedy.
@@trulyyoursish Bhansali not only misrepresented the culture and language of Punjabi city Lahore but also stole music and scene sequences from Pakistani punjabi movie. The Hit song "Masoon dil hai mera" is stolen from "Zindigi tamasha bani". This is the original song and its on youtube /watch?v=5HUtqXv9cvg
Hello, thanks for sharing the real overview and history of the courtesans. I would like to request you to make a full documentary on your reseach work and aware the public on this. Its really important for the society to depict the correct picture of the talented indian women who are protrayed so wrongly by a bunch of film makers who just tampers history in the name of artistic freedom.
I mean I would love to actually watch a whole 24 hrs series (cinematic) depicting the actual life of courtesans, the heirachy in the courtesan houses, different styles of courtesan dances different gharanans , it would be a fascinating dream cone true if the quality of detail is up to the mark with heeramandi
I had the chance to watch Manjari ji's performance as a part of 'The Courtesan Project'. She had done a collaboration with Neelesh Mishra at Jashn-e-Rekhta and it was simply mesmerizing. Her work is truly perspective-changing. I really appreciate her dedication towards correcting the representation of tawaifs and telling their stories from a female artist's perspective instead of a male lay-person's non-nuanced perspective. I can empathize with the simplistic black-and-white thinking of people from an era where purdah was common and women were kept away from the public gaze for the most part. But we, with all our historical perspective should appreciate what courage and dedication it must have taken the female artists from that time to put all societal scrutiny and criticism aside for the love of their art. Western scholars today would call them the feminists of their time, but we stubbornly hold on a dated view of things about them.
I was th inkng the same about dancing; I so wanted Heeramandi to show women honing in their art of dancing, the teaching of it, the practice and individual execution. However, thank you very mcuh for this wonderful insight and your commitment to tell the truth.
What she is sharing is very true!!!!....infact because of such misconceptions....singers , musicians n dancers are looked down upon as a career...its getting better with time though
Yesterday only 24 may I watched movie Kisna after that we were discussing how much well cultured tawaifs were they knew every art... but one thing was there in our mind how they could be a prostitute after having such beautiful arts in themselves.... Thanks mam for clearing the doubt and presenting the real picture of Tawaifs what they were actually ❤
Tawaifs were unofficial queens. Yes they were ill-treated. Their children if boy were taken to palace, if girls will remain in koti. It all boils down to looking down on music, dance performers. Looking at artists as objects of pleasure.
I don't mind movie makers taking any topic or plot from history, distorting it according to their convenience and making blockbusters. My problem is with people who mindlessly make them their inspiration or make reels adorning their outfits, copying their style, with out knowing what pain they went through. Just ask your self one question is there anyone on this planet who would like to be reborn as a so called courtesan or tavaif?
when they talk about inspired by a real story or real events atleast show some respect not to distort to such an extent also that it looses its real essense and then do not mention about lahore 1920 etc also
Wow! Such an eye-opening and mind-widening presentation! As a subcontinental artist deeply involved in literature and cultural activities since childhood, these 'cinematic' representations came as very conflicting to my young heart. I didn't know about these biased and abusive presentations promoted by our media. Exposing these abuses of hundreds of years is vital, because this trend of evaluating performing arts on the basis of gender, and degrading female performers, is being seen in almost every aspect of culture.
To an extent the artists from pre-independence era who excelled in dance and music did get respectfully recognised in South India as (examples being ancestors of MS Subbalaxmi and Hema Malini)....but this also didn't happen in north India.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. Sanjay LB, as usual, made it very visually appealing, but details are missing. I would have loved to see how these ladies cultivated their talents, how they learned, and who their Gurus or masters were. Also, I'm curious about how much riyaaz they did every day to perfect their art.
Really interesting interview… My take away: Tawaifs were the artists who were highly feminine, they mastered the arts like poetry, music, philosophy, etc. since they were masters in their craft & eluded feminine Grace they naturally attracted the alpha males (nawabs & kings) who perhaps went there for the craft of the art but ended up falling in love with the artist… hence they were not sex workers.
Thank you for bringing out the real facts on tawaifs, definitely SLB should have done heeramandi in a better way showcasing the real tawaifs though alamzeb was depicted as poet but didnt had the strong impact on the truth.
This kind of videos should be more available in the digital platforms so that the history of women never get misinterpreted. Thanks to the chanel and the Manjari chaturvedi Ma'am .
Thank you so much for this. It is disheartening that people make a glamorous distortion of facts a hit simply because it's glamorous and made by Sanjay Leela Bhansali who has supposedly history of distorting stories, novels and history for his own purposes without worrying about repercussions that many people actually take his distorted films as true represetation.
Bollywood and hindi serials have always used names of historical person's as a selling point and weaved such crazy stories around it. One eg is Jodha Akhbar.
@sauron2000000 why should it be the "saffron ecosystem" only ? Why this discrimination against the Devadasis ?? Because Hindu ?? This kind of erasing Hindu history leads to rising of Saffronisation
Most people do not claim that Devadasis were prostitutes. What some people probably claim is that in some cases, they were sexually exploited by Pandats and UC.
Thank you for this interview🖤Two things. Firstly, there's a Huge role of the nationalist movement in sidelining the courtesans and hereditary performers to purify these art and make them respectable and a vessel for building soft power through a saffron-tinted Indian culture. It's not just the British government. And this was done not by men only, women of 'respectable background' played their part too. Disappointed to see there's no mention of this phenomenon in the interview. Secondly, this counter-narrative still maintains the lower and disrespecting gaze towards prostitutes/sex-workers to assert how tawaifs were artists and 'not like them'. I understand this respect-hierarchy worked in that time, probably among these communities too, and clearly working in this time as well in popular conciousness. But at least academia should be able to come out of this gaze and present the different kinds of services they provided without throwing the prostitutes under the bus.
So glad a video like this exists, especially with with Heeramandi’s popularity causing people to take it at face value as an actual representation of Tawwaifs & their lives. I’m disappointed in Heeramandi - given how long SLB said he’d been planning this series I thought it’d be a more nuanced look into the lives of the Tawwaifs as their art and relevance in society was chipped away under British colonialism & the “sanitizing” of cultural history when the modern nation states of India/Pakistan were created. Instead we got a series that’s literally more style than substance - the music, costuming, and cinematography was stunning but ultimately propped up a shallow & trope-laden story that painted the Tawwaifs as down-trodden sex workers instead of the autonomous artists and culture makers they were in a society that was even more sexist & patriarchal than today
Very well articulated.. It's true we hardly get to see women's perspective on so many things.. It has been a man's world.. Sure things are changing but it's work in progress. That's artists/storytellers should tell their stories responsibly esp when u are contextualising them with an entire culture and important phase in history..
I understand males should show the intellectual part of the tawaif or the geisha or dancer. How they excelled in song n poetry, their interactions with the nobles. But the fact that these tawaifs/geishas were also noblemens side pieces with which they could get patronage is seen as an insult. Tawaifs/geishaa performed mostly for men. If it was really an ART it would be for everyone. Children men n women. This was an exclusive adult only entertainment for the MEN. MEN who could afford it. Any man can afford a prost but only the nobles could afford the best. That was their motto. Why today twist it like they were angels walking around with holy intentions.
Being perfomed to a particular gender doesnt make it a less of an art. In a patriarchal society where men own almost all of the wealth, it is obvous that they will get the patronage of men.
@@shaphyshaphy So are you telling me that these noble men were only interested in entertainment? Especially when their woman and children aren't around?
Talk to 10 indians and ask them what they know about tawaifs and you can bet your name on it , 9 out of 10 or more likely all 10 will name Bollywood references to you. Forget research - how many people would learn music or dance from a tawaif when the name has been misrepresented so widely? But people do go to Ustaads
Yes correct. There was not one scene in the Heeramandi series where the tawaifs were seen doing riyaaz, discussing shayari, poetry or composing something. The whole time they were just planning and plotting.
Not only tawaifs.. Bollywood misrepresents Bangladeshi history the most! Every movie you see in Bollywood about 1971 war..they pretend it was only between Indian army and Pakistani army ...no nation is created that easily!! Independence doesn't come like that! In that freaking war 30 million Bengali died for nothing?! They only show how one Indian general died ,adds a patriotic song and boom...Thats Bollywood history for you!! The filmmakers should read some history book before filming this rubbishes.history misrepresentataed is history cleansed!!
Thank you so much for this. Especially the fact that male artists are to be respected but because our patriarchal society inherently looks down upon women and objectifies them it was considered to be work that garnered no respect eventually
Why get triggered, it’s a web series or movie? Acting is an art. So is music and dance. Useless overcritism is not healthy. Police is portrayed very wrong. No one criticize!
Thank you for this video. I needed this to cleanse my mind after watching the unbearably shiny trailer of Heeramandi. This Bhansali will ruin every historic character and event of our great subcontinent. He needs to barred from touching history.
Yes Mam..you r right..The type of dance..tawaif performs is Kathak..which is quite difficult..n one has to learn it..And since ages Women were discriminated n looked down upon in whatever they do .Song..or Dance.. Its so Hurting when I also see that there are a group of People.. doing Good job.. wearing Modern dress etc . calling themselves Modern..But when it Comes to women/wife..they have very Narrow Outlook n also Discriminative.. Mrs Rashmi From Assam..
In modern context of Female GROs, Guest Relations Officers , who work in bars, are intended to influence the male customer to buy expensive liquour, sing Karoke songs with him and his friends inside rooms. Their commissions depend on how much the customer spends on drinks, while tips are totally theirs. Out of bar rendevous is their personal profit after closing time ! Could tawaifs have been GROs of their era, albeight reserved exclusively for the entertainment of the Nawabs and Rajas. In that era were only 2 socio-economic classes- rich rulers and the poor masses .
