I'd love to hear an update from the OP as to what happened afterward. Are you still racing? Did you get things repaired OK? 2006 is a long time ago, I remember when this was first posted on the Scooby forums and everyone was all teary-eyed for you.
I definitely think there was something on the surface there - watch the blue car get a tank-slapper on in the same corner one lap previous. Zero change in steering input and it didn't sound like there was any sudden application of throttle, or lift for that matter.
@fprintf Yes, the WRX was repaired fully and went on to live a happy life until I sold it in 2010 with 124K miles on it. No more track days though after that incident.
I've got an '05 STi and I've done this before. And instead I just slammed hard on the brake it kept me on the street, but I ended up doing a 180. People think because it's an AWD car that you can't spin out, but your rear end is pushing out more power than your front. All I can say is that an early counter-steer may have helped but I've been in the exact same situation and its difficult to tell if it's just a little normal "slide" or if its going to come completely out.
I also think it was driver error. If your tires are squealing, you don't have traction. He was going way to fast, and using an incorrect line, along with the loss of grip and you're toast.
He also kept putting in more steering angle during understeer, when the tires squeal like that you gotta straigten out a bit and let the tires regain grip. Definitely avoidable.
To all the know-it-alls who haven't noticed yet, there was an oil patch on the track. Watch the car in front of him at 0:16. He looses it at exactly the same place on the track. This was not the fault of the driver.
Thanks cmdmd, I will take your advice, as I just signed up for the advanced racing course through Skip Barber. Wrecking cars is annoyingly expensive but wrecking your body is life changing. So i am going to play it safe this trip. Thanks for your input have a great day
Big Bend at Lime Rock has two types of pavement with different traction properties. Very touchy getting on the gas exting this turn. If you've never been there and tried it, you know not of which you speak.
if you look carefully in the beginning, the wrx in front lost control at the exact same turn as the one at the end of the video. You can clearly see the marks of tires going off. Something's not right with the track.
@snowthugs , It's not such a bad track anymore. It was repaved. The run-off room is very reduced in some areas, so, take very small bites. On a Formula 2000, it is really fun, I have never driven a regular car there. All I can tell you, dont drop wheels off Big Bend or West Bend. On the uphill BE ON POWER AT APEX, start slow and then work your speed up, the turn is way faster than it looks, so is the DOwnhill turn. DO NOT HIT THE CURB AT THE APEX OF THE DOWNHILL.
I'm typically not very fond of comments like these, but I will say that the driver in question was extremely inexperienced. Some are saying there was something on the track, but it's really hard to tell because the drivers reaction was terribly slow. I'm with cmdmd on this one... It was the transitions,which that corner is so well known for, that caused the change in balance.
your boy has the best response to this: "God I'm sorry Brian". If you had someone like me, who doesn't know how to react it would have sounded like this: "Man... heeeey, shoulda bought an Evo".
@god084 Surface may be crappy, but slow hands caused that incident. He kept the wheel pinched far too long after transitioning from concrete to pavement, and didn't correct fast or far enough when he started to oversteer...
Looking at all the other tyre marks on the ground, I'd say he wasn't the first. Poor effort from the track owners having such inconsistent road materials.
@badSTI that is an option too, but if the track has oil on it or something like they claim he still would have slid off, just in the other direction. btw, what drivers are you talking about that know what they're doing?
cmdmd, I am going to LR this summer. From your experience is it really as treacherous as all of he youtube videos? I have only driven dessert tracks(willow springs, millermotorsport) were run off is just dusty and dirty but that's it. LR looks like even if one tire touches the grass you better have some quick reaction time? Also the run off looks like a slip n slide to barriers? I will be taking it very easy, just want to know what I am up agains't
The problem is the difference in underground. You can see clearly other cars in the past did slip in that corner. A driver who is familiar with this track can avoid this kind of accidents, but when you don't know this, it is iimpossible to recover your car in this situation. Even shumacher ;-)
@bobba84 plough understeer? The car was oversteering through half of the turn, he was doing a great job at controlling it until coming out of the turn.
@ SpoonHPR. That was my thought exactly! I wonder why Lime Rock didn't properly repair that section. Last I checked I didn't see that kind of "work" at Infinion or Laguna.
aroundthewolds, I was wondering if you could comment about your experience going off big bend? From ALMS is looks like when you go off, you go straight into the barrier? I understand those cars are going a lot faster, but still it doesn't seem like that slow down at all before wrecking? What are your thoughts? Just trying to gain information from your experience on that track. Thanks
His mistake was at 1:33 to 1:34, slamming his brakes, not continuing the turn and then suddenly turning the wheel hard to the right when he over drove the corner.
Definitely the car was understeering badly at the end of that decreasing radius turn and when he turned the wheels in sharper you could hear the tires howling in protest. As soon as they regained front grip at track out he was pointed towards the wall and that's where he went. You always want to unwind the steering wheel on corner exit, never fight to keep the car on the track without knowing how close you are to the limits. In this case he was well over the limits of the tires.
i think when you first saw the exit of the corner onto the next straight while spinning, you could do two feet down. (clutch disengage and lock all tires) so then the car just slide toward the direction you directed, in this case it should have been the corner exit. then just hope noone hit you from behind.. but hey you panicked, just like i did when first time spun out. now you got experience. keep it up, never quit learning.
There was nothing on that turn.... I have raced at Limerock, that happened at the transition point from concrete into asphalt. Asphalt has more grip and he tightened his turn right where the asphalt restarts....the front tires "bit" into the asphalt and he went into the wall. Slow reaction time too. A quick countersteer would have saved him.
that only helps traction, not lateral grip. best way to test it in real life is a wet day you'll get heaps of confidence from the traction and on corners it will slide. :)
@snowthugs You'll be with 2 wheels off the ground by the end of the 3rd session on the Uphill turn. Be safe, start slow, get faster with practice. Limerock Park eats cars. like Watkins Glen
@Soffex Ive been to the track a few times myself, and also, took advanced racing technique classes. I dont see anything on the track that would have made the car slide. As you can see in the video the corner is banked or cambered, whatever word choice youd prefer, and at the end of the corner the banking goes away, suddenly turning into a flat or possibly even off-camber corner. This caused the loss of traction because suddenly the wieght of car transfers.
either, theres oil on the road (nor so sure cuz of the color of the cement) or the cement is bad with tires (DUH!) or when the fronts grip upsets the rears that are still lightly sliping (very common oops)
not oil spot...is called understeer...this guy accelerates in the corner. Everyone that runs in tracks nows by rule that you have to brake before the corner and accel after the apex...this guy accel's at the apex. Just look at the corners before. He took about 3 of them too wide and fast in the entering with slow launches.
@mmamdouh75 Yes the corner goes from a cambered corner to an off camber corner, ive raced on a track very similar to this where ur takeing the corner perfectly fine and then the corner changes at the end causeing the car to lose wieght on the outside wheels which induces the slide. Off camber corners are challenging but once u know they are there u know what to do.
That's the thing with 4wd ..if it goes, it just goes ... Feel bad though for this guys lovely car..hope he got back at the tracks very soon..never give up , the faster he returns the better he'll become .
@ObviouslyBoredKid I have no clue about this, but I'm pretty sure you sign a waiver before you go on the track which includes something like this. So probably not.
It's not the drivers fault, I've been to plenty of tracks where they dont clean up anything after the day, and you could have oil / antifreeze on the ground from a previous track day. Sucks that he wrecked the car.
I cant agree more i was in the same situation... and all i did was let off the throttle didnt touch the brakes but I corrected my steerin and I was able to save my car.
I've lost in in the big bend a few times. He kept a pretty constant radius in this video but where the surface changes color it looks like he lost traction for some reason. Didn't lock up quickly enough, otherwise could have spun down the track...
There isn't much runoff and the grass doesn't slow a car down very much. But in general one doesn't go straight off- it's usually just carrying too much speed into the corner, so a lot of the speed is scrubbed as the car is turning into the corner before finally losing traction. I actually went off more in the esses, especially the last corner before no name straight- people try to carry a lot of speed through that corner but can be not on the best line. Also a notorious spot for oil!
He drives and Microsoft Xbox 360 with a Microsoft steering wheel. So I am sure he knows exactly what its like to freeze up and crash, resulting in a blue screen of death. I personally owned 3 subies and loved them. Yes they have a bit sloppy numb feeling when driving on on asphalt (compared to the Ferrari 328 I drove) but I have some much confidence in mine and wrx are tried and true work horses. p.s. what up's with Subi lately? Pulling out of WRC and losing to Ford and the French?...
a car doesnt just rotate like that, it wasn't understeer in the turn, it was turning perfectly, maybe even rotating a little too much. Snap oversteer is caused by throttle (too much or lifting off)..none of which he did, and none of which would dramatically effect an AWD car Coming off that turn he probably should have straightened the wheel a bit earlier, but even still something caused the car to rotate like that...whether it was oil or the racing surface (i doubt..LRP is a famous track).
It does, but this was a driving school. He was doing pretty well. I feel for anyone who stuffs their car. You can see the other scooby got loose in the same section earlier in the vid... should have given him a warning.
damn!! one thing i learned about AWD is never touch the brakes during a spin, just let off the throttle and correct steering...easier said than done tho... not saying you touched the brakes but you should've been able to save it, i noticed the rear end coming around but you didn't let off the gas (soon enough).....oh well shit happens! Hope it wasn't expensive to fix!
sounds like he was under instruction on a track day and the something there was oil or something on the corner the instructor feels responsible by the sound of it
Could have been easily avoided. You pointed the wheel in the right direction, but let off the gas... AWD are easy to regain control of, just romp on it!
Man that's so lame. I'd be heart broken if I wrecked my car like that. Especially since anything I'd have into the car, money and labor wise would be hard work and greatly prided...
that sucks man. Hope that the subi didnt get hurt to bad. I would have been so nervous at the beginning when that other guy hit that oil slick an almost lost it. Ill be sure to look out for those when i hit the track!
Reminds me of my first session on the track, understeer understeer and more understeer. Why? Too much speed entering the corner. you were pushing it too hard buddy
@Wayneright True but still the difference between asphalt (especially once it has some heat in it) to concrete is like dirt and ice. I wouldn't even push it on that! Feel very sorry for Brian
The driving instructor is the funniest part. I love how he just agreed there must be something on the track. Instead of taking responsibility of not warning him about the transition from concrete to asphalt. (maybe he did and that part wasn't posted) regardless is very funny comment.
There was a bump i think... the car went up then the front started to go down having less traction than it should and when the front landed all the way front tyres griped and u got oversteer...
oh dear not too analyze your crash that sucks bad but you were already understeering there the track has a crown too it at track out you understeered hit the little elevation change in the road shocks compress decompress and basically causes the spin and you think to hand break her around so it would be pointed more backwards? idk if anything woulda helped you were commited to hitting that wall
