WTF Is Threshold Running? 

I'll give it a go, something I need to try

during High School Track and XC I do

Going to give it a go now, very interesting 👍

twice a week in winter base, once a week in season, most of trainings are 20x400m (30s rest), 8x1km (1min rest), 4x2km (2min rest)

@@menjackim Active or passive recovery? From the magnitude of recovery I deduct passively. For jobs around the threshold I consider more productive active recoveries perhaps even longer. Different is for repeated at vam or in any case aimed at improving the vo2 max

Glad you liked them Lucie!

If you need more than a 60 seconds rest you’re probably running too fast, you could possibly go to 90 seconds rests. Those rests you suggest are for an interval speed sessions, threshold running is not interval training.

Dont need more rest than 1 min usually. Its about getting the neuromuscular relaxation between sets. Advice from Marius Bakken one of the first pro runners in Norway who used the "Norwegian treshold model" inspiring Ingebrigtsen. Using longer breaks would be more suited for harder efforts , like 10/5 K pace 1 K repeats, etc, which is above treshold.

I appreciate the heads up. And I do not mean this rudely but with conflicting information it helps to know. Do you say this from a place of experience or as a trainer?

@@garfeld625it’s a fact my friend

@@garfeld625 Look up 80/20 training

@@JoutarouKuujou1look it up on RU-vid? 😂

If you want to be able to run long distances comfortably but never compete with quality athletes, train all your runs slow. You’ll progress well this way. If you want to be fast and achieve athletic times, push the boat baby.

60 minutes for elite runners. the average joe 15-40 minutes max. no regular person is holding their actual threshold pace for 60 minutes unless they're a phenom

I was trying to wrap my head around this for some few hours now. I guess it’s because it’s your “average” pace/HR. You will have an HR ramp up from 10 mins up to 30 mins. The one you get around the 30 min mark would most likely be close to your max HR which is indeed impossible to survive for 1 hour but the average might be doable.

Thanks Bart 😁 How long have you been doing threshold sessions?

@@runningchannel Since I joined my athletics club. I think it is a standard (weekly) session for all the groups that like to race, improve their PB's and are capable of doing those sessions without risk of injury. Like said in the video: it is a great session for huge improvements with a relative low risk of injuries and little to no (muscle)pain the next day.

Garmin watches can determine your threshold

I sympathise. It is more difficult to avoid running fast too much than it is to run fast! MAF is the other extreme, but it has the benefit of simplicity, being quite enjoyable and works quite well (if you get the volume right, I suspect).

This is why I bought a commercial treadmill - one of the best investments I've ever made. On my easy-pace days I would either go out too fast or speed up during the run. Now, I do my easy-pace runs on the treadmill, set my pace, listen to some tunes and I don't have to stress about going any faster than I should. However, the treadmill is also great for doing progressive runs (great for running negative splits) and even strides sessions (especially on an incline).

For me, Garmin is inaccurate for Zone predictions. Mine tells me I'm in Zone 5 when doing a 19:58 Parkrun. It's because it uses the dodgy 220 - age formular for HR and then factors that in to thresholds and zones.

Amazing MHR for your age! Mine is only 164.

Real good Martin !!!!

Yeah, if one more Instagrammer tells me I need to run slower to get faster, my IPad is going out the window.

Excellent point! As otherwise one would sprint and then stop after 400 m. I think the threshold point is where running faster is inefficient and your heart rate is climbing faster than your pace.

Your estimate of it will improve as later tests are informed by previous ones. Another way is to infer it from your best race over a distance as near as possible (10k or even 5k can be used, with a suitable percentage adjustment - I tend to use the formula TIME = k * DISTANCE^1.07, which is pretty good from mile to half marathon. k is unique to you, based on your best race. :) That "^" means "raise to the power", in case it isn't clear.

Just base it off 1 hour race pace, so somewhere between 10k and half marathon effort for most people. Otherwise you can plug a recent race time into one of those online calculators and it will give you your threshold pace.

@@04004 Yes. My formula is one that they may use. It wouldn't be much different anyhow.

Even if you run faster in the first part of your test run, the average pace will be close to your lactate threshold pace, if you try your best.

Sort like , yes. For me it is the 10 k tempo. Also what you can run at the exactly the same tempo for an hour. A 5k is full speed with lots of lactate

Do you use a chest strap to measure heartrate? Or do you use the wrist "light" to measure heartrate? The wrist "light" can be very inaccurate compared to the chest strap (for me sometimes even 15 beats higher than my chest strap). The watch has to be quite tight on your wrist and the sensors on the chest strap has to be a little moist to work properly.

Sounds like you’re assuming your max heart rate is 220 minus your age or 188 for you. It might be that it’s higher than that for you which means that what your watch is calling zone 5 now is actually zone 4 or even 3. Remember everyone is unique, the 220 - age formula is just an average. Try setting max heart rate to 195 or even 200 and see if the heart rate zones make more sense that way i.e. zone 2 you can speak in full sentences, zone 3/4 in short spurts, zone 5 out of breath in under 60s.

My Garmin did the same. A old man pace my heart rate is 140 and running at 8min or faster pace, which I do a lot, my watch just kept saying every run was zone 5. So every run according to Garmin, is a zone 5 run. I believe Garmin allows us to modify the heart rate zones. So they will start showing up as zone 4.

Did you enjoy the session?

@@runningchannel was a good session enjoyed it just was unsure if i was doing it right either i was having the best run so far or i wasnt pushing

Almost similar to 10k ,maybe slightly slower. Just try an hour run at 10k speed

Great suggestion Martin thanks! Is there anything else you'd like to see us take on? 😁

@@runningchannel thinking aloud take on five runners over two months and show what they can do to improve their times, like your starting 45 minutes to 23 minutes for 5 k. More like a workshop format! One could have a weekly clock in with them. Old, young, thin, not thin, male and female, semi professional and beginner.

A 10 K time trial is far above treshold pace and heart rate. In a time trial like that you would see your heart rate go from treshold (example 165-180) up to above treshold (for example 180-195) rate at the end of the timetrial. Your Garmin treshold heart rate seems very accurate. Example given, if 52 minutes all out, you had done a 10 K at treshold pace you would probably do it in about 54-58 minutes, depending on steady or progressive end of run. Treshold sessions should be comfortably hard, not all out. Although you could end treshold runs harder. Like doing the last 2 km above treshold.

That depends entirely on how long it takes to run a 10k. As he said, 54 minutes. For most people threshold is 40 to 60 minutes. Your take is based on a faster 10k time I would assume? Anyways he probably has a naturally high heartrate. You can't stay anaerobic for 30 minutes (he says pegged at 192 for last 30). His actual threshold is probably between those 2 numbers, maybe 185 or so

Do a max HR test

👍

Where abouts did you see a mistake?

at 0:58@@runningchannel

To ascertain your lactate threshold you must complete a session of at least thirty minutes. With your heart rate increasing from a relaxed state to one of a working rate during the 10 minute warm up, the variation in your heart rate readings will be wide. Therefore to determine a consistent and reliable lactate threshold reading only the last 20 minutes are used. Once you have determined your lactate threshold, you can then use this to understand how hard you’re able to run for up to 60 minutes. Runs longer than 60 minutes will theoretically require you to reduce your running speed as your body will otherwise produce too much lactic acid.

How did you come up with 97% of your max HR?

I would guess its a gopro. They have stabilization included in all models these days

You can also run 1 km/h slower than your lactate threshold

Either that, or buy a commercial treadmill like I did. These things are brilliant. Like a personal trainer (or even a friend who can run faster).

Hi Scott. What is your threshold pace/HR, and what is your marathon pace/HR? How much threshold running do you do in comparison with zone 2 training?

@@AndreiDamian My LTH is around 144BPM. I do a lot of running in the hills (West Virginia) so an actual training pace (Grade adjusted) is hard to pin down. I focus on HR unless I am on a dreadmill or track, this time of year trails are hard because all of the restroom facilities are shut down. But ideally, about 8-min - 8:30 min miles depending on course has me in that range. I target a 7:49-min pace for marathons (3:25) but have not got there yet. I need a 3:35 for Boston. My week is 2 days easy running, mileage varies. I have 2 long runs, one steady and one dynamic. I will have a tempo/threshold run 2 times a week, one longer, one shorter. And one day will be an ultra easy run, usually before a race which I substitute for a workout of comparable distance. On Garmin Training effect I like to have a couple blue, 3 or so green, 1 or 2 orange and a wildcard (could be anything like red for a race or long Threshold, or blue maybe green if my friends can sync up and we go on a fun jog and chat. On flat courses a 9:09 pace is a pretty easy run I can hold all day. I have yet to break 20 on a 5k. I used to use the USTAF programs but went back to Hal Higdon Advanced 2 marathon after an illness.

@@AndreiDamian race pace hr is between 144-152bpm. On a good day at peak my pace between 7:40 - 8:00 min miles hovers in there. I can't hold 155 for more than 15 or 16-miles. Which usually has me between 7:25 -7:35 min miles. 5 & 10k races I red line the whole way with 158 - 166bpm. When my HR hits 168 or above I start seeing spots and experience tunnel vision, I don't like that at all.

😂 piece of cake right? 😅

What's their HR during?

😂😂😂

Watts. Threshold. Force. 😏