The old joke about cults being merely "religions without tax breaks" is surely relevant to any discussion of the putative differences between overt degree-mill scams on the one hand, and fashionable Ivy League colleges' junk science on the other.
I think almost no one uses them (fake ones) to get a job, but it would be fun to troll people by making them call you Dr... kinda like getting one of those minister certs from the minister mills like Universal Life Church.
I wanted to say! If getting a phd hasn't humbled you, shattered your self worth and made you look into the abyss of despair then obviously you haven't gotten a PhD 🙄
@@UnconventionalReasoning this has nothing to do with one's advisor. When equipment breaks down in the middle of a long planned measuring campaign, when a thought out plan doesn't yield the expected results and you are at a road block, when a paper gets rejected or harshly criticized despite you having put a lot of thought into it or when you discover you did a tiny mistake during an experiment and now 1 year worth of experiments are useless you are essentially getting to your limits. Other than some encouraging words and going over your plans, there is little the supervisor can do. So my statement still stands.
@@UnconventionalReasoning It's not a myth. Anyone who has failed to realise how much they *don't* know at the end of a PhD is either a genuine super-genius, or a psychopath.
I have been in the middle of my PhD studies for too many years now, and I have lost all my interest in academic career. I knew already before I went to the elementary school (which is seven in Finland) that I want to be a university person and nothing else. But now it sucks the life and joy out of me every time I need to open the files, and I cannot read anything interesting without thinking that I _should_ be reading something thesis-relevant instead. Earlier today I got my latest rejection from a journal. The only reason why I keep going is the unreasonably deep need to be called 'Doctor'. *Something like this, e. g.:* 'Doctor! Doctor! Is there a doctor?' 'I am a doctor, ma'am,' I shall say proudly, rising from my seat. 'Help! My husband isn't breathing!' 'I can't help you with that. My PhD is in cultural history.'
I got cured of wanting an academic career during grad school. This came from watching professors work themselves into early graves whilst putting up with huge amounts of crap. The private sector is hardly paradise but it is not so bad. Get done and get out.
I was in grad school when the movie "Annie Hall" came out. In one scene at a party one woman mentions to the other that she found a good catch, the guy is a doctor! She replies saying "No, he's just a PhD" We used that line a lot for a few years.
Damn, that's rough. I'm a self taught software developer, so I've had my fair share of imposter syndrome working along side people with master's and doctorates. I'm in my early 40's, but I've often had the fantasy of going back to university, and maybe on to grad school one day. Why do we always think the grass is greener on the other side, yet we never account for the pit of despair in the middle of the valley? I hope you can find the joy to finish your studies and one day look back and see the reward for all your hard work.
In Germany, there was a famous case of a man named Gert Postel, who pretended to be a physician specialized in psychiatry. During his "career" he was hired 6+ times as a psychiatrist and was even offered a job as head of department of a hospital for neurology and psychiatry. Other (real) physicians praised Gert Postel for his outstanding genius and attended his presentations, where he would basically just use fancy words (which he previously read in medical articles), and pack them into overly complicated sentences which nobody understands. Many of those working with him or attending his presentations thought "he sounds smart and even I don't understand him, so he MUST be a genius". Every year smiliar cases like this come to surface. People who can't even place an infusion into the patient's vein have worked as doctors in hospitals for way too long (resulting in many patients getting killed, long before the fake doctors got caught). Also I think it's safe to assume that once in a while you can find a fake professor at a college or university. I guess they give more "soft" classes (but I wouldn't be too sure about this either... we live in a world where certain "foreign country X experts" (even with REAL PhDs) are constantly asked on live TV to talk about country X and its history, just to feed the audience the most utter nonsense which any thinking person who lived in country X can spot as nonsense. Yet most people, even highly intelligent people, (choose to) believe it). It's *the way* in which things are presented, which builds a believable illusion for most in the audience. Not the accuracy of the content you're presenting. You can see this everyday in the news or hear it on the radio.
While you describe "the swelling of sadness, ..." when a person is asked about their PhD, the reality is that it will only be discernible by other people with a PhD. It is subtle enough that the general public will miss the reaction. 🤣
Also, if that person is a psychopath, they could very well lie and steal credit for other people's work. And do so smoothly. If even polygraphs don't work on psychopaths, then people are going to be convinced by one who didn't work for an actual PhD
IDK about that, I completed undergrad studies and it's been really negative experience to me. It's really just depressing and just not positive. My grades were mid and really unstable.
Yeah; I know someone with a "matchbox" doctorate; I know someone else who faked the data for his dissertation. It happens. With the first, I stopped talking to him. Nine years slogging away through gradual school and this SOB bought his in nine days.
Yeah, i was only ever trying to "buy" one because my mom was never willing to invest in my actual attempts at going to college, but the online PhD for $2k i guess seemed reasonable to her 👀🤷🏽 Either way, i already knew it was only to sell books i wrote or boost my credibility in that particular field, not attempt to pass myself off as an actual Doctoral Recipient, although technically, yeah, i would've been that had i completed the program. Either way? It was always just a temporary fix. Like a baby degree to motivate my sense of accomplishment so that i could complete my previous attempts at actual university and grad school. i was never going to be satisfied until i actually had a PhD from a university in the field of Psychology/Neuroscience... But maybe that's just me 😶
In science, we had people who faked their research post Ph.D., which I think is what happened to Alzheimer's research. And then there is Jan Hendrik Schön who almost faked his way to a Nobel prize.
A PHD instantly makes you more believable, via appeal to authority and expertise. It makes it easier to get certain jobs. Some of these jobs and uses for a PHD don't actually require the knowledge associated with earning the PHD. At the end of the day a PHD is a piece of paper stating that you received a certain amount of training and wrote a dissertation which may or may not have added any value to the world.
Most jobs don't need any other education, as long as you don't have intelligence of unga-bunga and are willing to learn, you actually can do that job just fine. The problem starts when there are like 30 people all with degrees competing for same position and you have to pick the best. It would be just weird to give a chance for less formally educated candidate.
That is very true, it's an ID to be a member of the club and get a do-nothing job where you're grossly overpaid. I had to train two Ph.D.'s at my work on the bureaucratic/paperwork side of the systems engineering that we were doing. They were such dumbass rocks, I explained it all a couple of times and got deer-in-the-headlights looks. When I went into it again slower and in more detail, I discovered that they couldn't read basic engineering drawings. Come on, that's level of knowledge for an undergrad that hasn't even graduated yet. These guys supposedly had 15 year careers in engineering, makes me wonder what that career was in. Can't even read a drawing or plating spec?
@@jostafro4967 In engineering, the difference is a project where you have to write a 150-page thesis that the old profs like. And you have to pay about $50,000 for the privilege, so you better be on scholarship or else you're going to be making truck-payments on it for a long time.
I know someone who purchased a fake doctorate. I backtracked the awarding institution and found a website that gave their price list for an "honorary" bachelors, masters, and doctorate. I guess the guy decided he could split with the cash required to purchase the PhD, because that was what he got. Even posted pictures of himself (all smiles and preening like a peacock) on social media receiving the degree. I was really disgusted.
BTW - I have a masters degree, am a 29+ year educator at a community college, and I still correct people when they call me "doctor." That's called professional pride and courtesy!
@@thedevilsadvocate5210 He knows that. Read what he wrote again. The reason people call him Doctor is that most college professors do have PhDs, so his students assume he does as well. He is honest though and tells them he is not a 'doctor.'
I've known people who made sure you knew about their degrees and such, and then others who you'd have no idea. One friend did her PhD while pregnant and then with a newborn, which I found impressive, but then she had tons of energy and was brilliant, so that helps. :)
I have a PhD, and after leaving university my supervisor agreed to me giving his name as a reference. When I applied for a job, the employer checked up with him. They called me with some shocking news: my supervisor had died. He was a young man: in his early 30s. When I reached out myself, the university told me his wife had asked them not to give out any details about his death. I contacted one of his other students, who completed a little after me, and said that one day our supervisor simply didn't come into work, and nobody would tell him any more other than he had died.
Dude that’s horrifying. Besides the personal relationship you may have, your advisor is hugely important in getting your career established, especially in certain fields.
I have just started a doctorate of law, 3.5 years ahead of me. I am and Aussie in the middle east and i suspect a lot of people around me have fake credentials. Very frustrating!
I just think "Why?" In physics, since everybody has a doctorate, the title is generally not used except in formal correspondence. People are more likely to ask you your research area. I know, that's what I've done at conferences.
I'm guessing it's because industry enjoys the titles. It makes the company more attractive to investors or clients. However, it is the same in biology. People hardly use it except for formal correspondence.
@@cesardejeronimo8184 People only know that all the scientists in the company have PhDs because people have been telling the world that scientists have PhDs for a century.
Of course if you want to verify a Ph.D. you can always do a google search on the person's name. Not only should the dissertation come up, but journal papers should also come up. At least for STEM, you should have at least one journal paper during the course of your graduate research.
Haha! I cracked when you mentioned “sadness swelling in their eyes” 😂 PhD is a process of giving birth to new knowledge, of course it hurts like hell. And I am darn proud of my baby lol. No pain no gain 💪😂🤣
Most people will never read your research. The vast majority of bound PhDs end up unread on a dusty shelf. The main point of a PhD is the process of turning you into a professional researcher.
@@AnthonyLauderIt feels to me that we are entering a time when even if humans cannot read everything that other humans research and write, computers will be able to, and they will be able to parse and organize and make available this information far more efficiently than we have ever been able to do. Maybe the information in all of these papers will not be unread for very long?
Hello there, dr. Stapleton! First things first, a big thank you for your input on academia and PhD research subjects! It has really helped me see where I'm at right now. The thing is, I'm a year and 2 months into my PhD program at the moment and I feel like a total failure. I entered the program to buy myself some time right after graduation - in my country you get drafted to the army if don't have an official excuse against it (like studying, yeah). I thought I'd like it, but... It feels mentally draining. It's a fully remote mode of education - so no lab work for me, and I feel no incentive to get in touch with my colleagues and the supervisor. I'm still responsible for what I do, for sure, but this mode does not make it any easier. Besides, I feel like I can't read into academic communication subtleties - I don't really know when the faculty administration or the supervisor mean and intend well and what they mean in terms of our shared work on my project, which makes me more vulnerable yet oblivious to criticism and negative feedback, since everyone is so polite and straight-faced till it's too late for me to fix mistakes in my work. The thing is, I wanted to apply for another program, but didn't have enough energy and vigor to, and right now it's kind of late to change the situation. On top of that, I openly scolded my supervisor a year ago on some in-university issues and it didn't affect well our professional relationship - which means I'm not top priority among other students from then on. It feels very underwhelming, especially given lack of visible result in everything I do and many people telling me to press on and finish it nevertheless. Very, very confusing stuff - as in I haven't really achieved anything so far because I took my time to mentally recover and tend to what I like doing (other field of research, not officially supported and underdeveloped around the parts I live). And still - I feel no incentive to press on and see no future for myself if I do.
I absolutely LOVE your videos Dr Stapleton. You are hilarious and very practical. You have been my lifesaver during my Doctoral journey and I really appreciate your content so much. Thank you.
I wonder if they have a fake dissertation supervisor for a fee lol. I'm almost done my doctorate, and writing chapter 4 and 5. Anyone that is claiming to have a doctorate should be challenged to present their dissertation and DOI link.
I know plenty of people who "fake" MBAs by enrolling in a course, adding it to their LinkedIn profile, and then withdrawing from the course but conveniently leaving it on LinkedIn. Fake PhDs though... I'm almost 5yrs into mine and still don't feel qualified 😂
@@UnconventionalReasoningI've just started mine this month, I already suffered from terrible imposter syndrome, but it has worsened since I began this PhD. Just had my 2nd project meeting, thought I was making progress, but now I'm back to square one. Feels like I can't find the start line for this PhD marathon I'm meant to be running, and time is ticking away.
@@Nicole-kc1vx I promise that you are supposed to be there. You're supposed to be walking at the start of the marathon, warming up, getting used to the course, and getting ready to hit your stride. You've got this!
I'm just an undergraduate student majoring in physics, but I will be graduating next spring. Already I don't feel ready to get into a graduate program, because I am so convinced that I will never get in no matter how much I try, and I feel utterly inadequate compared to the graduate students in my major. As an upperclassman, I am ashamed to say that I spent an entire year studying general relativity and still can't understand a lick of it.
@@jessicatsao92 General relativity is supposed to be challenging. There are a lot of topics in physics a student can understand and use while having some which remain a mystery. The graduate students in your major often grew into the role, just as you will. Instead of seeing them and being frustrated by the comparison, use that as a guide for your continuing academic development.
In some cultures, copying or plagiarism is seen as acceptable and often viewed as the highest form of flattery to the supervisor. A fake one from a good quality Phd mill provides a perfect format with no errors (except it is obtained fraudulently of course!). Fear of failure, people pleasing family and impressing academic colleagues, and scarcity of funds is often the driver for people to cheat. AI can also help with manipulating data.
If somebody asked me about my PhD, I'd start enthusiastically telling about my thesis. Sorry, no sad stories about reviews here (they were all positive), and my supervisors mostly let me do what I wanted, which is rare, I admit.
Not quite the same as a diploma mill, but I know someone whose parents paid for his undergraduate, but he spent their money on rent, games, and parties and never attended classes. On what should’ve been his graduation day, he didn’t invite his parents, but he sent them a photo of him wearing his roommate’s graduation gown and holding his roommate’s diploma. His parents think he’s working in an office when he’s actually working in their warehouse of this company.
Very interesting topic you bring up. Part of the problem is that the lay public does not understand what getting a PhD entails, and equate it to professional doctorates like MD, JD, PharmD and others. Earning a PhD involves novel, innovative research that leads to the creation of new scholarly knowledge, whereas professional degrees demonstrate competency in a particular work specialty. It is easy to track professional doctorates because in order to work a the particular specialty, licensure is requires, and the professional organizations do this for the public (partially to control numbers of workers and thereby keep salaries high). PhDs are an academic level above these professional doctorates, but it is hard to "license" scholarly research, much as it is difficult to license other creative endeavors like music or art. Perhaps a central registry of PhD thesis, PhD advisor, and university would be useful to the lay public. This would at least facilitate verification of an individual's claim of a PhD in an easy-to-understand manner.
And there in you just described the problem with PhD programs. Do you really think that the dissertation, "Student Retention at the Community College: Meeting Students' Needs" would be more appropriate for a degree in Marketing or for an Ed.D.? What is really sad though is that it is more of a dissertation and statement on the failures of the American public school system more so at the secondary school level, than anything else.
In my case, I lost interest in my field as I was pursuing my PhD. This was almost 50 years ago. The field itself was changing rapidly and a lot of what had attracted me to it had fallen out of favor. One of the professors I had been working with failed to get tenure and left to work for an engineering company. I was also hired by the same company part time, and I was doing that work much more than the work in my field. I considered dropping out of the PhD program, but finally gritted my teeth and cranked out a dissertation. The people in the department signed off on it, which got me the degree, but now in a field I didn't want to work in. Through a series of random steps, I found my self doing computer support and development in a VA (medical) research center. And in that context, surrounded by MDs and PhD clinicians, I found my self being called Dr and getting a much more decent pay level than I would have had I not had the degree. I later got into research there myself, but in a subject matter only distantly related to what my degree was in. So, I suppose I am an example of someone with a fake PhD, even though it took me a total of 12 years to finish it, what with various gaps, and even though what I studied and the research I did for it were never again relevant to my life.
I wouldn't say that at all. At the end of the day it is a degree in philosophy, not in a particular field. If you have spent years going through the exercise of researching at topic, thinking critically about it, comparing different arguments, summarizing this in a thesis, publications, etc., this is all training for any kind of intellectual work. Indeed, there are many, many examples of people who did a PhD in one field and ended up working in a completely different field. These skills are very transferrable.
Exactly! ‘The benefit of a university education is… training the mind to think’ (Einstein, paraphrased). Unlike an undergrad degree where you’re retreading the thinking of others, for a PhD, you have to think for yourself. Or to put it differently, completing a PhD proves you can think.
Here in Malaysia we have a database for all the phd holders from reputable and established universities so we can check their accreditation but still, it doesnt stop people and usually politicians from faking their PhDs
I'm in the first year of my work, and I already have the "thousand mile stare." 😶 (Of course I'm a mature student, working full time, my spouse's caregiver, research assistant for my PhD supervisor, doing my pre-candiacy coursework part-time. BUT it's still fun and there's LOTS of overlap with my work-work, PI's research, and my research; AND the coursework is SO relevant to all my work.)
I'm glad this is the content at hand, since Andy seems not get out much. Most "actual" PhD professionals are too busy doing PhD things to even care about mills or credentials. Most of the PhD professionals I know here in the states really do not try investigating other PhDs professionals and credentials. However, I can tell you a lot of people mostly people in business, buy these things only to receive funding or capital from investors for there business or business's. Its really hard to open up a business with a PhD for being a licensed professional. Our tax system, city, county, state, and federal officials would know what type of business you have then audit you to meet the correct requirements. Don't think you can just buy a piece of paper and think you have a PhD, there are safe-guards in place that fix that. For example I'm getting a Professional certificate from M.I.T and they have there own blockchain for credentials. They don't even give paper PhD/MBA's/BA's/Pro Certs/Etc/Etc as credentials anymore, you have to actually go to the registrar's office and ask for it in person. Most of the reputable colleges do that now but not have there own blockchain. Its pretty funny how some people still fall for this lunacy of buying a degree online. And if your think someone doesn't have a PhD just because they might not understand X,Y, doesn't mean they dont have their PhD. That just means they have not experienced as much as you have, because they were attaining their phD. Most of the PhD people I know are very calm and steadfast in being logical about everything. To normal people that might seem weird, to them that how they built themselves to do what they did. People in general need to get out more including Andy, stop being paranoid my friend we got your back ! 😂
Why do you say it’s paranoia if the figures that he opened with were 45,000 real PhDs per year and 50,000 diploma mill PhDs. What is paranoid about half of experts not actually being experts?
In germany we have probably at least one major politician per year getting exposed for their fraudulent dissertations for over a decade now (keeping in mind that this is maybe a group of 10.000 people of which only a small fraction pretend to hold a PhD among a populace of 80 million being closely monitored). Not ones bought but those that plagiarize the works of others. So you also have to takes these into account because they are not represented in the 50.000 being bought, but they are part of the 45.000 being "achieved legitimately. Of course the numbers for germany are others (50k and 45k respectively) and the amount of plagiats in the anglo-saxon academia might be different from germany as well. In the end it is safe to assume that the number of genuine PhD's based on a persons academic merit is much, muuuuch lower then 50% of the current value.
Not to mention that not each diploma was done with the same effort and pain, and therefore does not represent the same level of achievement/personality traits people would associate with a PhD. In the end you can only judge people's character and thoughts by listening to them and observing them in practice while solving problems.
For most people, many years of institutionalized learning for a piece of paper that allows one to add title letters to their name is a waste of time and a scam.
Other way around is annoying too... I often get called professor or dr in speculative emails, calls... Balls to that nonsense, I barley scraped through uni because I was windsurfing and partying too much
This has nothing to do with stolen valor. A person faking service in the military, is stealing or insulting the person that put his life on the line for his country and for other people. A person masquerading he has a PhD for "Literature," or, "Mathematics," isn't the same. However, claiming to have anything medical and actually working in a medical field is criminal due to putting people's lives at risk.
I never faked a phd or seriously considered doing so, but I get where people could be tempted by the professional respect it affords at least at first blush. In my early 40s I went back to school for a pre-med sequence with the idea of going into pharmacy school. It was undergrad but a pretty intensive series of STEM classes and I excelled at it and deeply enjoyed the subjects. I found some independent research opportunities in molecular biology at the state's flagship university where I worked as a visiting researcher in an established lab. For about half of the first semester, I was surprised how helpful everyone was. When I'd go begging for some chemical at one of the other labs or time on some piece of their equipment, the doctoral students and everyone else was tripping over themselves to help. I late found out that due to my age they assumed I was a postdoc or PI - one of the Brahmin caste in other words!🤣
For Navy SEAL veterans, supposedly the ratio of fake ones to real ones is closer to 100:1. The concept of "stolen valor" does not even seem to exist in Europe, as there's no prestige to be stolen from the soldiers there (and obviously it's prestige, not actual valor, that's being stolen). On the other hand, Germany had a chain of scandals around real doctorates earned with fraudulent dissertations that made politicians fall like a chain of dominoes, including arguably the greatest talent in politics or political self-promotion in a generation. What impostors claim to be tells us what a society values. The diploma mills seem to be fairly harmless, though. The high numbers there for America don't seem to be a consequence of Americans holding doctorates in particularly high regard, but of greater freedom of speech and education in America making it so that selling Mickey Mouse diplomas is not in itself prohibited, whereas in Europe it is. With large number of totally different institutions using the same degree names in America, the name of the degree really doesn't say much without looking at the school, even for actual schools.
There’s no prestige to be stolen from European soldiers? I suspect there are many servicemen who would disagree strongly including retired members of the SAS.
@@drzander3378 I haven't spent enough time in Britain to say if they might be somewhat of an exception, but it seems safe to say that in Germany etc. the prestige of the military is about as likely to be stolen as the prestige of the sanitation department.
I really doubt the numbers for the US about % of people with PhDs includes the diploma mill ones. Those are almost always 'honorary' PhDs and used for vanity more than anything; for one thing, none of those places are accredited. Any job requiring a graduate diploma is going to run a background check and find out it's B.S. I think it's more for entertainment purposes, like becoming an ordained minister with the click of a button.
I agree, I posted here about degrees in the evangelical world, where fake degrees appear to be the norm. These have currency only within the evangelical world. Step outside and your potential employer will simply run the name of your institution through a database and find it is not accredited. This is usually a red flag for any HR department.
My brother in law has a PHD and you would never know it. He does not got about brandishing it, or expecting people to call him Dr. That is being humble, my deepest respect.
I heard this scam is kind of common in other countries. Especially if HR doesn't know anything about foreign degrees. They may want to have their fun at the numerous local community colleges or beef their resume. I can imagine it is ridiculously easy for these liars to fake with a Communications or Sociology PhD and just teach off of a textbook/give lots of group assignments and become completely lost in the system.
People with a PhD are, generally speaking, incredibly intelligent people who actually understand very little about the real world. They know a lot about such a narrow subject matter that they overlook all the interactions between a highly complex system with trillions of moving parts.
One of my profs at a college supposedly had a PhD. We looked it up because there was nothing about him that indicated he'd had any grad school training. The place he did it wasn't a recognized university. His thesis title and abstract sounded like a cross between a Sokal hoax and new age mumbo-jumbo. For just a certificate, it's pretty easy to make a fake PhD. I made two to see if I could do it. Even top tier universities use easily available Adobe fonts, and stock paper available at many places (e.g. Staples). Bit of googling and you can find the signatures of the people you need to add. Trickiest part is making a hand-crafted die to imprint the gold sticker, but that was kind of a fun project in its own right.
In the 1960s, many people were hired as professors straight from grad school before they got their Ph.D. They never bothered to get one, but were called "professor" by students and colleagues, so everyone just assumed they had a Ph.D. My wife's advisor said that she would help some of these people actually get their Ph.D., but it was done in secret so nobody would know that they hadn't had one before.
It depends how PhD, or a doctorate, is defined. In the US, unlike say the UK, physicians graduate as an MD. In the UK, physicians graduate with an MB, BCh, BAO, I believe. Lawyers end up with a JD. That point alone inflates the number of people with doctorates. I am sure the diploma mills double the figure in the US again. I’d guess that the percentage of people that have earned a bone fide, research driver doctorate is probably 0.2% or thereabouts.
I think when you look at other regions with lower literacy rates, having a PhD comes with social ascension and status, you are viewed almost as a prophet 😅 in some areas I know people chasing a real phd not for the sake of research and academic contribution but just for that title Dr before their names. I think nowadays you can judge a phd by their publications and citations although it’s also debatable.
A good example of old data. Bear used to publish books (the 1980s) on where to get non-traditional degrees. At that time accreditation was not as meaningful as today, many of these schools legally existed, and California proliferated with their own "approval" process. But since the time of the publication of this book, California did away with "approved" school where unaccredited degrees could lead to licensure, and all states have regulated away true diploma mills that legally operated. Back in the day there was a lot of grey area. Not so much anymore. Anyone with a "fake" doctorate now is easy to spot.
I have a very real PhD, _summa cum laude_ from a proper research university. No fake data or other shenannigans (well, it's in philosophy, so data fraud is irrelevant). I have a decent record of scholarly publications, and am even (jointly) editing a small, but respected, scholarly journal. I have been unemployed for over a decade, and lost all hope of ever getting a job. Fake PhDs at least earn their holders some money...
summa cum laude? I have a PhD and it was either pass, resubmit with changes, or outright fail. There were no "cum laude" grades. Perhaps it depends on the country (mine is from the UK)
@@AnthonyLauder In my university (and it's the standard for the whole country) there is a _summa cum laude_ option, and about 5% of dissertations are awarded that distinction. At least that was the case around the time I defended mine (2008/9).
My doctorate is also from a UK uni. It was either pass (with or without corrections) or fail (in which case you might be awarded a master’s instead depending on how badly you failed). There were no Latin honourifics. There generally aren’t for any degree - undergrad, master’s or doctorate - in the UK. Some US universities don’t use Latin honourifics either.
It depends on how they got them. I have 5 or 6 I bought for $20 from "Braford" university I think, each with various fanciful degrees like "Advanced Springalian Studies" that I would rotate on the wall in my classroom to see if anyone notices. Are these counted in the survey? On the other hand, given grade inflation and reduced requirements in the US, there are plenty of people with a 20 or 40 year old MS or even a BS who should get a free upgrade to PhD. And then there is crazy difference between the 6 or more years of slave labor of a US PhD versus the UK D.Sc process (which I think is a lot smarter. I don't think I would want to be in the University system today without an independent income and tenure.)
I grew up in a college town. I've talked to a lot of PhD recipients and most of them are not very bright. They say "I had to defend my dissertation" and I say "dissertation on what?" then the most uninspired and mind numbing thing I've ever heard comes out of their mouth. Businessmen care even less "you wrote your dissertation on the Decolonializing Trans-Radical A.I. Prompt Engineering? Sounds great, here's 250k a year." Did the stock goes up? Yah and then it split. Cool. Moving on.
I imagine most schools have dissertations online as mine does, so it's trivial to check. And I don't know about other fields, but in hard sciences you should have a least a handful of publications by the time you finish. Someone claiming to have a Ph.D. but with no publications would be immediately suspect.
Back when I was in graduate school most (60%? 70%?) of PhD's were reported to never have published another paper after their thesis. Just sayin'. [Note: I earned my PhD well before the internet.]
I spent a large proportion of my life working towards, and getting a genuine PhD here in the UK I feel particularly aggrieved to hear about these fakes. Thank you for highlighting the problem. I am indebted to you.
I got a PhD when BBSes were still a thing and animated GIF's of cogs and cats on your academic homepage were considered cool... If they want to dig out my thesis it would be like the final scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark but in reverse...
PhDs are real doctors, just not medical doctors. The term "doctor" comes from the latin word that means "scholar" or "to teach". I used to think the same thing until I actually looked it up.
@@arcadiosincero Yes, but knowing this doesn't stop other people from misunderstanding it. Lot of people also abuse this common misconception. For example, there are people with a PhD in geology or whatever who use their title, and advertise health products. If you're an honest person, it doesn't hurt to clear that misconception before it can occur.
@@arcadiosincero We are speaking english not latin. And in english(and a portuguese... maybe other languages?), doctor can mean both someone with a doctorate. Or a physician. (In portuguese.... sometimes we use that for anyone in who got in law school: lawyers, prosecutors, judges... or just anyone learned enough) Does a man stop being a bachelor when they marry? Even with a bachelor's degree? I know, languages which have ambiguous words should be deleted from existence. But they still exist and are shaped by their users, however ignorant they are of previous uses.
Even in Europe and North America, it is rather recently that physicians have mostly become doctors. I worked in hospitals for a long time, and when I saw parking places marked for doctors I felt free to use, them; when they were marked for physicians I did not. After all, my diploma says "with all the rights and privileges thereto pertaining."
@@matheusjahnke8643 But the OP's assertion was that people who have Ph.D.s aren't "real" doctors. I'm just saying that's not true. Currently, Webster defines a "doctor" (like you stated) as anybody that has a doctorate degree. Which means, Ph.D's are in fact "real" doctors.
People should understand that "I want to do a PhD" ---> is NOT how it should work. It should be the other way around "this student is good, he should advance further", said by the professors. It should not be someone's choice to do a PhD, if you want meritocracy. But when you turn Universities into private businesses, then what did you expect ?
I know one case where an Ivy League university still didn't even ask a guy to present his diploma. However, that was a unique situation. The guy was doing research in a particular field of biology. He estimated that there were about 17 (seventeen!) professors (individual lab leaders) in that field worldwide at that time. Hence, everybody knew each other personally from conferences, collaborations, etc, and there was no need to verify paperwork. People rely solely upon individual recommendations.
It isn't. A PhD is nothing more than a training process to be a professional researcher. It shows that you can have original ideas but that more importantly you can follow through on them with several years of extremely boring investigation. Most people give up because they cannot cope with that long and boring process, and only want the fleeting excitement of orginal work.
This has been the case since the 1970s. They do it to gain prestige and respect and upward mobility. Some employers and others never ask for prove of the PhD
A PhD is seen as a mythical license to "lord it" over other people. It's viewed by the uneducated in a vein similar to aristocratic titles such as Duke or Baron, as stated in this video it's a statement of exclusivity. "My opinion is worth more than yours because I have a PhD!, therefore I am automatically granted superiority in my arguments." I worked around academia and academics for almost 20 years and saw PhD's who literally couldn't make cogent and concise arguments to save their lives. I've also seen how they act in industry when they land a job, they think they're automatically the smartest person in the room. This is similar to what happens in the military when a newly commissioned Lieutenant is deployed and they mistakenly think they outrank the warrant and chief petty officers and are the final "authority" and learn the hard way that they're not. PhD Mills exist to scam the general population because too many people still believe in the mythos that more education=superior social standing and superior abilities, which is far from true. BTW, Fake PhD's are not a harmless scam just to get respect or a better job. It's been discovered there are fake PhDs in critical STEM areas in which that person has the ability to influence things like safety policies and design criteria. You sometimes get someone who is hired into say an engineering firm at a decision making level(not front line engineers) with the ability to approve engineering designs and who could make a mistake in not catching fundamental design flaws that they would have if they truly had the knowledge they claimed. There is a Johnny Carson interview with Frank Abagnale (the guy which the movie Catch Me if You Can is based on) from 1978, he relates to having impersonated a supervising Paediatrician at a hospital where he didn't actually have to do the "wetwork" but was the supervisor of interns who did the actual work but he was the "authority" whom they needed to get approvals from.
What I have never understood about degree mills, and they have been around for a very long time, is how any one who matters, such as a potential employer, would be fooled when the awarding institution must be stated on the certificate. Perhaps these fake degrees are just to impress by having something on the office wall, or for lying to 'underlings', who will not necessarily be in a position to check the degree certificate. In any case their usefulness seems questionable.
Just because they are being sold doesn't mean anyone is taken in. Any recruiter should have a junior checking all the CV details, I can assure you. And they do - they catch people out all the time (at least in finance). So it's one thing to buy a fake, another to get away with it - its just silly. As for passing stuff off at lower levels 'a friend of mine' regretted their MBA project topic realising they wanted to work in the City and the project had been on IT in management, so chose another project off the shelf, scanned and modified it, studied it and spoke on it in interviews. Only to be told by one interviewer at a fund manager 'why did you repeat this kind of work - it's all been done before and nothing new'. In the end, they got a quant analyst job at a fund manager on the back of the MBA and started a quant career to become head of quant research at a major fund manager. The original project was actually more interesting BTW. Anyway that's different from totally inventing the whole degree which is silly and will get caught out PDQ!
As someone who is considering going for my DBA, this is pathetic. There are people who are really getting degrees from diploma mills & act as if it's OK.
A PhD actually means being acknowledged as one of many leaders in your chosen field of study, and your lecturers and teachers can only validate your knowledge and innovation up to a point, but any step beyond this is entirely your own responsibility. It is the academic equivalent to a normal person earning 1b dollars and continuing to make proper and well grounded investments, only in the case of academics with knowledge in the chosen field of study that provides understandable foundational thoughts (simplifying the complexities). There are plenty of academics with PhD in economics for example, but only those who show actual 'practical' results are in some sense listened to, but the work of everyone else with any doctorate degree is very important in creating a 'foundation' of thought for the inevitable breakthrough of innovative thought some genius may arrive at with that foundation one day.
There's is (allegedly) a problem with this in the US federal government. In an environment where the only titles open to civilians are Mr., Ms., The Hon., and Dr., the Dr. title has a perceived value, especially when dealing with individuals in the military with titles like Colonel, etc. Even if they aren't outright fake, I get ads all the time for barely accredited "Doctor of Health Sciences" or some such that is "competency based" and specifically targeted at federal employees. It's accredited by some Biblical accreditor, but since the accreditor is in turn recognized by the Department of Education, the degree is recognized by the federal government if no one else.
Competency Based Degrees are legitimate Degrees: just because you went to school and suffered through the indoctrination process and jumped through all their hoops to get yours doesn't make my Life Experience which led me to Acquiring the same Level of Knowledge and Skill any less relevant or valid. Honestly, the person who is self-taught and passed the Competency Exam is most likely the Superior Candidate over the individual with the Indoctrination Doctorate 💯👀
@@crptnite No issue with competency based degrees. A good portion of my undergrad was by non-traditional means (e.g., CLEPS). I'm a big proponent of schools like WGU and TESU. The particular school that spams me with ads, however, seems to be a barely-accredited institution treading the line of a diploma mill.
Yes, like Joe Biden's wife, who insists people refer to her as Dr. Jill Biden, even though she doesn't have an actual PhD (nor a medial degree). She has only a professional qualification for school administrators called an EdD, which involved no original contributions to knowledge
I was reviewing CVs to hire graduate tutors and one of them definitely had a paper mill “PhD” listed. It took everything in me not kick up a fuss because this person was simply pompous. Very “I already have a PhD, but I’ll work among your plebs for this totally easy process” coded.
I would think that most of them have government jobs that have a defined salary bonus for having the degree. Teachers, principals, school district administrators, etc.
I should also mention that even some of the people who have degrees from real universities have fake degrees. Back in 1984, my mom got me a summer job working at a high school, answering phones, sorting mail, etc. my mom had told my supervisor that she wanted me to improve my typing skills and so on my very first day, I was given a copy of the dissertation that one of the asst, principal’s had written and was to retype it with the other assistant principal’s name on it. I categorically refused and gave both of them a lecture about what giant Hippocrates they were since ap’s are supposed to discipline kids who cheat and not only were they cheating, they were making a kid participate in it. Neither of them understood why I was so upset. Weirdly, I was not fired for this. Eventually, the second ap decided to do his own typing because that would not be cheating.
count me in! i do know someone with a fake PhD and still works at academia. I agree with you, it is many times about how much money one is willing to pay the spiritual #gods to get a PhD .... All one needs is GDPR for intellectual property or industrial secrecy..... meanwhile i needed 16 years to publish 3 sci papers from my first master degree and only after i was forced to spend , against my will, 3 weeks at the psychiatric hospital for observation..... in 2023 i finally was able to publish my 3rd and last paper from a sci. research work from 2007 in the area of carbon fibber composites. Innovation is quite a dangerous activity as a Portuguese .... #staysafe
Nobody knows anything about their own profession anymore, and I'll bet these fakers are partly to blame. "College Educated" means that someone read a few pages of a pamphlet on the subject, in-between their Alcoholism training sessions, and Lying, Cheating, and Stealing courses. All they do is look for ways to not do their job.
If the college graduate level is about equal to the high school level of 50 years ago, then there has to be a way to distinguish yourself as Even Better educated to move up the ladder. It's a checklist that needs some check marks on it to get more pay.
OMG the way you explained how to figure out if he has a phd and look in his eyes, man im studying phd now and u PUT IT very carefully and precisely. My phd is HELL 😢
One of the most difficult periods of my life; I not infrequently cried myself to sleep. But I made it through (after threatening a formal complaint to the academic senate if my major professor/advisor refused to sign my thesis). I earned an undergraduate degree (BS) and when I realized I could place into graduate school, I swore to myself that I would earn a PhD or die in the attempt, for my father's sake. (College had not been a possibility for him, and he died during the summer after my first year in junior college/college. Also my brother was a ne'er-do-well.) I finally managed to pull it off, and thereby prove to myself that I could do something that required "sticktoitiveness." I am glad I did it, but it was very challenging; non-academic interests helped tremendously. Years later the PhD proved somewhat useful because of the credibility it gave me as an expert witness.
@@johnsmith1953x does anyone believe in that? Or do they think you are Mozart?:) 5 Phd in different fields of science means that you spent 25 years as minimum in studying and research:)
One thing its hard getting one for some. Plus the amount of time pour in to earn it. Its not worth getting a fake one. As in some cases the degree is going to be verified by some.
I don't think those statistics count the unaccredited, "fake" PhDs into the percentages. The US produces roughly 50,000 real ones a year. Also, the percentage goes past 2% of the population if you count professional doctorates (which are technically not PhDs). The bottom line, however, is that tens of thousands each year want a fancy title and many apparently lack enough humility to keep themselves from obtaining such titles without actually earning it.
I worked with a fellow whom I strongly suspected to have appropriated a PhD earned by someone with a very similar name, whose thesis advisor had long since left the country.
The 1.8% is actual PhDs. Those figures are based on reporting from Universities. I do know someone who ordered a fake PhD from one of these websites, but it wasn't for nefarious purposes. It was as a prop for a TV series.
Even if some PhD's aren't legally fake but true according to all standards, they are losing their worth when too many name decorations given away that easily. 500 years ago it was the church that should not be questioned, now it is people with PhD's or worse.
Pro tip: A real PhD would *never* present themselves to other people as "Doctor so-and-so". If somebody labels themselves as a "Doctor" in conversation, be very doubtful of their credentials.
I've been on the receiving end of a, "I didn't go through X years of school to not be called doctor" from a woman who was a legitimate PhD-holder. Chemist.
@@dawnfire82 Not that I've never seen this, but somehow, whenever I also got to look at those people's research, it always turned out to be markedly substandard...
I figure you'd mention you are a doctor if it's relevant to your audience. Medical doctors are almost always referred to as "doctor" in conversation because the fact that they're a medical doctor is relevant to almost every one. However, if your doctorate is in Interpretative Lesbian Dance Theory, then the only other people that fact is relevant to is people who are into Interpretative Lesbian Dance Theory.
You may be surprised. My PhD is from the 1990s, and I can't think of a single time I have used the title Dr, except on forms where it was an option to tick. Yet a friend of mine who completed around the same time has insisted on being called Dr all the time. Even calling for a pizza delivery he will say "Dr Jones here, ordering a pepperoni pizza". I find it pretty weird, but he seems very proud of it.
I opted for a professional doctorate because I actually want to make a living. A DNAP, pays a helluva a lot better than a PhD in nursing, and probably better than most professions overall, however, a PhD to me, would be a vanity project at best. Nothing against it, it’s just that the numbers don’t add up for me.
Can you imagine having a PhD in the hard sciences and not even knowing what the most common instruments are. Like if you with a PhD in genetics walked up to someone at a research institute, you didn't do data science, and then couldn't even use a thermocycler, they would probably laugh your butt out of the building.
I am on my second Masters in Arts, debating a third because I want to do a PhD but I am intimidated, I am worried I wont be good enough at the research to pass, but I still hold all As in gradschool. I watch your videos and The Grad Coach to prepare. I dont understand why someone would fake holding an advanced degree, they dont do much for what they cost, if anything it is more about being obsessed about a field.
I always imagined a PhD would be about intense intellectual stimulation. It isn't. The first few months have the "am I good enough?" doubts, but once you get into your stride and know where you are headed it turns into "can I cope with this monotony and boredom for another four years?" Those are the two drop-out stages that I have noticed. People in the first year who are scared they can't do "original research", and people in the final years who underestimate how boring "original research" turns out to be after you initial "Aha!" breakthroughs.
@@AnthonyLauderthat’s not my experience at all. At least speaking from a physics PhD at a tier 1 US school, it’s been challenging and stimulating the entire way
@@diverman1023 I think that is quite unusual. Certainly a great number of US university doctoral students drop out before writing up ("All But Dissertation"). If you found your final year, presenting papers for conferences, writing journal articles, and writing up your whole thesis for submission to be challenging and stimulating then you are a rare case. For many people, most of the exciting work is by then long behind them, and the grunt work of months and months of writing and submitting is too dull for them to complete.
