so i see two major differences besides the airframe: the prop pitch and the average speed. Are they flying at the same airspeed? It takes some time to determine the best airspeed for endurance, or distance for a given airframe, and for distance, wind strength can be a variable. it may not be possible to fly both at same airspeed.. or desirable.. just curious.. of course, wing area, Aero design, airfoil, and aspect ratio are factors, as well as weight, etc. etc. hard to compare directly, unless given a specific task, (mission) and take time to optimize each for that mission. and results will only be valid for that mission.. it's a hard task to compare, but nice to see some comparison done regardless. I'm sure a lot can be learned.
Hey Spike, you're right. There are sooo many factors that differ between the the planes. Both flight controllers were set to fly at the same airspeed. The Clouds landed with a higher average ground speed because it had to deal with less wind. I remember watching the Talon struggle on the headwind side of the orbit for long periods of time. We joked about how the ground speed was nearly single digits. I remember it hitting 52mph on the tailwind side one time. I'm pretty sure that it does not "balance itself out". When the wind speed is half of your cruising airspeed, you spend A LOT of time slowly fighting the wind. I'm working on the 2.4m Phoenix right now. I am printing a motor adapter to use the 700kv motor with a 12x12 APC. That seems like a good combo. I had to hack up the phoenix fuse a bit to get the battery to "kinda" fit haha. It basically has a bomb bay now without the doors haha, but at least the battery is mostly under the wings. I am sure that it will still take a decent amount of useless tail weight to balance it.
@@MatthewHeiskell you are right, the wind does not balance out for distance covered. you spend more time in the headwind and less time in the tail wind. also flying cross wind, you are losing. but wind alone should have not much effect on endurance. only if it comes with turbulence, which in the real world, It usually does,,. will be interesting to see what the Phoenix will do with the 12x12 prop, and the same motor as the talon. have you tried different motor/prop combos on the same exact airplane? say just change the prop? I think the KV is not really relevant for efficiency of the propulsion system, but rather the diameter of the stator, gap from it to the magnets, strength of the magnets, (matters but very little) and if the magnets are curved or not. in the drone world, there is a push to just make one KV of motor for everyone and let people set throttle limits to their liking. I've tried this with a model boat, a slow boat for filming and used large high KV brushless racing motors intended for geared dive, but used with direct drive. had to limit throttle to about 16 percent, but works great, with no noticeable bad effects of loss of resolution. I think using a large diameter stator regardless of KV is key to max efficiency, along with the other factors we already discussed.
@@FPVREVIEWS Wow, that's really interesting. I thought brushless motors were most efficient when they were being used at 50-70% of their max. A while ago you recommend using a higher than normal pitch prop to improve efficiency. I have found this to be very true! You said that the larger the diameter of the stator, the better. I think that you can take that statement a bit farther. What about "pancake" motors? My 700kv motor has a 3508 stator. I think that for efficiency, you want a large diameter and a short stator. What do you think? Also, I just ordered a new motor to try on the Talon. It is 600kv with a 4108 stator. APC makes a 14x14 electric prop, maybe that will help. A larger stator and a larger, pitchier prop.
@@MatthewHeiskell yes, the pankake motors (as long as they do not cuase too much aerodynamic drag) shoudl be better. the length of the stator is not that relevant to effeciency, but if it's too short, you will burn up motor trying to swing a given prop. also if it is too long, does not matter to the effeceicny of the propulsion system when running at a constant RPM, but will have more mass to accelerate and decellerate, also weighs more, so plane weighs more... so figure out the largest diameter that you can fit, then figure out how much it draws swinging a given prop, and last choose a stator length that gives the motor enough thermal mass to not burn. the KV is irrelevent, but if not high enouhg may be low on power. higher than neccesary, and not limited in throttle, then will burn up. so just pick one that is high enough or higher, and limit if necesary. at least that's how i understand it. i just ordered some sort of pankake motors for my solar plane and very high KV, so will test myself.
of course the other way is to use multiple motors. The combined stator diameter is equivelent to a larger one, and the disk area of many props can add up to one large one. Same rules apply, but on smaller scale. This has key advantages: 1 the configuration is more flexible, and you no longer have to worry about a large prop clearing the ground, etc. 2 changes in RPM can hapen much more quicly with multiple small motors, if you need them also for differential thrust, or for lift, such as with a VTOL. Not sure at which point it becomes DEP Distributed electric proplusion. there are many benifits, but it becomes more important than ever to have very effeceinct porpulsion. and you see most DEP systems use prop-fans rather than conventional props, especially at low reynolds numbers. such as Helios, etc.
@@MatthewHeiskell Yea, The foam is all laminated now. Ive never had a foam plane with so much pva, probably due to the complex shape & multiple bays & shape? Doing plastics next, and want no issues. Thanks man, UhU Por it is, hows yours holding up?? I may need help choosing parts setting this beauty up. Going Maytek f405 or 765 wing(i have both, going Arduplane) Sunny Sky 2814-900kv(have other motor choices also-Racerstar, t-motor) 10x7 props cw & ccw, 4s, Not sure on esc yet, but have 40a plush 32, Hobbywing x-rotor 40a, Flycolor 40a & even Castle Edge 50a. A few others too(skywalker 40a, etc.) Looking for endurance on this bird so lith-ion... Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Getting to the fun part part of the build now, Thanks, Rodger...
Ive decided epoxy for rear v-tail plastic joiners, then I'm gonna permanently attach v-tails with expanding gorilla glue, bonding the v-tail foam to fuselage foam. Then uhu por for font joiners. Just finished rear plastics, came out perfect, should be solid. Hopefully finish front joiners tonight. Thanks for your input...
New Sub! Thanks for the cool technical breakdowns! I "need" a new plane.. Been loving my little ZOHD 250/340G, but looking for something more stable in wind.. Can't decide between the Strix Stratosurfer, Volantex Ranger 1600, ZOHD TalonGT Rebel, or an old school mini talon... thoughts?
Hello Clay, I'm glad that you enjoyed the video. I'm a big fan on the mini-talon. It is a nice size if you plan on flying with a gopro. The efficiency is excellent. The strix stratosurfer has a super durable fuse, but I've never flown one. I had a ranger 1600, but I did not like the throttle/pitch coupling, especially then you were near stall speed. I have no experience with the TalonGT, but it looks like a chonk haha. RMRC is having a sale on the skyhunter 1800 right now.
Hi do you know if it would be fine to add a hitech servo for the wings or ailerons? They are a little bit bigger than the 9G servos and would need to be modified to fit in. Would that all depend on the esc?or do you know if those servos would need more power? I'm sorry i'm not sure but I just wanted to add those hitech servos that I was used to but I don't know if that will be fine or if that depends on the esc. ty
The hitech servos should work fine. Look up the exact model and more sure that they are happy with 5V. As long as you don't see High Voltage (HV), then you're good to go. You can also bench test them to verify.
@@MatthewHeiskell thank you very much appreciate the reply.Thank you I will check they are the hs 85bb. good information ty! I just barley got this model but it should be nice ..ty
@@dragonmodel9262 Yeah, those servos will work, I just looked them up. You might have to use a hobby knife to make a slightly larger servo pocket, but they will work fine.
@@MatthewHeiskell hey thank you very much.At first when you told me the voltage I wasnt sure but then it made more sense thank you very much for this reply. Yeah they already almost fit I dont mind making them fit in the wing. I liked these servos from a regular plane I had thank you again.Havent had a long range plane though ty ..
@@frederickbergen4262 I've 3D printed a few free airplane designs, but all of them felt so flimsy that I didn't even add electrons and try to fly them. I've watched quite a few videos about it, but I've come to the conclusion that most 3D printer's filaments simply do not have the right material properties for the job. RC airplanes experience all kinds of forces, especially when landing. Foamboard is great though!
Li-Ion packs have low continuous current ratings compared to lipo packs. You might be right now to use the small Li-Ion pack for that twin motor plane.
