I've used my Xinzuo Zhen tall nakiri for about one year already. It's replaced my older and treasured Seki Magoroku nakiri in practical use because it is so tall: vegetables don't stick as much, and I can use it to scoop. I still use my Shibazi f/208-2 cleaver for heavier tasks, as you suggested, so the factory 15 degrees works fine for me in light use. There were no problems of alignment on mine---and the f&f was great. I noticed the difference in weight between this and my traditional nakiri right away--and I'd have liked it to be lighter. I'd also have appreciated a slight distal taper.
Thank you for sharing, yeah I hope they make more series based on a Tall-Nakiri the form factor was the main thing that made me like this knife style a lot. Really hoping for more based on this with different core materials. I recently added a 10 degree meaning that the entire bevel is nearing or at the cladding line which thinned out the knife and then I added a 17/20 degreed edge on it for added durability. Also did the 17/20 first before doing a 10-degree for the test. So hoping for a thinner blade profile overall with some of the newer steel types like the Powdered steel.
Personally I take the Xinzuo but that is purely due to its smaller size that fit my needs more (and the steel material fit my purpose more, I prefer longer edge retention). I will always choose a knife based on what fit my needs the most, ie; comfort, and fills the purpose of my daily cutting needs.
I have not looked into their new knives but 3+ years back they were in terms of core material similar to many others and therefore as advertised in terms of the Rockwell hardness of the Chinese VG10 which on my version was around 59/60 if I'm correct. That being said I have not looked at their new knives since some brands like Xinzuo have updated the grind on certain 2023 versions which I hope others will follow.
Can you tell Xinzuo that their marketing of these knives on Aliexpress is GARBAGE? I literally can't even remotely consider their knives until they put up good pictures of the choil and how the knife edge profile looks flat against a chopping board (like 2:00). I don't need glossy pictures with fish and onions in the background. I need technically accurate representations of the knife.
hahaha, that's for sure !!!! I normally don't go that low but 10 degrees on a double bevel took the bevel all the way toward the cladding line. But also I immediately had to change the 10 degrees for a higher angle, it could not hold the 10/13 degrees edge at all.
@@chefpanko Why not do a 10-13 degree secondary bevel and then finish the edge with a 20 degree microbevel? Isn't that what the Japanese do especially for delicate knives like usubas? I just scratched the left side of a new Tanaka White#1 gyuto, and what is more it's the left side - I'm left handed and typically better on the left LOL
@@jiahaotan696 I was thinking about thinning the knife to see how it would perform. So I figured why not try 10/12 degrees as that would thin the knife + I get to see how it performs at that steep angle, and noticing that the edge could not be held at that steep angle I then added a stronger edge of 15/17/20 degrees. It works great very smooth cutting performance, Wich I will ask Xinzuo to make more of this knife style (surprisingly more fun than I thought mainly due to the knife style). I found 15 degrees not strong enough (after thinning it with 10 degrees) and would go off a minimum of 17 and even 18/19 due to the thinning. Usubas are indeed the same principle same with all other single-beveled edges. It makes the edge a lot stronger. You do sacrifice true sharpness by adding a secondary bevel (but that's also one of the select few reasons they want the cleanest core material for those knives). I usually opt for an added secondary bevel on my single-bevel knives. But I have a few where I used to work that refuses to add a secondary edge on their Yanagiba's (ironically they were all the original Japanese chefs imported from Japan and they were mainly using Shirogami #1/#2 only but that is talking decades back like the start of the Sushi era in the Netherlands in 2004 if I'm correct where the owner of that restaurant had to hire all the Japanese Chef's to get them to train the staff here in the Netherlands). With a Single bevel, it is important to always stay flat to thin the entire flat side out, you will 100% get high and low spots no matter how flat your stone is. But once you gradually thin it the high and low spots will gradually fade away with each sharpening session. I was taught not to worry and keep on maintaining this way and it takes years to get the high and low spots leveled. (unless you use special tools and powders to mask it). I destroyed my very first Yanagiba after a few sharpening sessions which was a valuable learning experience. When I use my left hand on the stone that is the side I can't get the best consistent angle. (I'm right-handed but I also can't do the other technique where they do both sides with the most dominant hand so I'm a hand switcher).
@@chefpanko The Japanese sharpeners do the grinding on convex wheels which inevitably cause high and low spots no matter how good you are (obviously worse with less experience), unless you pay top dollar for something hand sharpened with a great bevel, and this goes for most double and single bevel knives... You can put in the time and effort to simply even out the high and low spots before even the first use of your yanagi/wide bevel gyuto/whatever, just raise the shinogi and make sure you don't touch the very edge. When everything is nice and flat you can put your final edge, microbevel at whatever angle you desire. Alternatively just wait for the years to pass before the knife truly becomes flat or what fits you lol. I have a great many years to go before some of my knives get a flat enough belly to make me happy. The flatter the better for me. I spent 3 years slowly sharpening my petty to left-handed asymmetric from right-handed and I can never fully change the grind but it's much better for my use now.
@@jiahaotan696 Yeah I was told no matter how good they are there will always be high and low spots, it may be a lot less with the very experienced ones but it always will have high and low sports. I mean you can put a lot of time and effort into getting it back to the factory but the problem in a restaurant is we don't have the time or the correct tools. And that is the main reason I was taught and told not to worry about high/low spots or even scratches. You need a lot of stone progressions and a lot of in-between stones to get a gradually good scratch pattern and after that, you even need a powdered solution that you turn into a paste to buff it back to a factory look. When they started they had no retailers that were at the level of Japanese retailers, the knives they had to import from Japan with bulk ordering at the time Sushi was introduced. Now we have specialized retailers that import Japanese knives and even go to Japan to get proper training in terms of repairs and maintenance. But the method they taught me is the best for us all as we simply do not have the time and that is to not worry about scratches, high and low spots. but only focus on the edge as that is the easiest part. The other thing I was taught was to use a stone fixer to create a paste and with a towel, you get the paste of the stone and use that as a polishing paste. (cost saving and you don't have to bring your entire stone set to work which is heavy to carry). We usually have 1 stone (shared restaurant stones in very bad condition that nobody uses) and a knife bag that we store in the kitchen. We also had shared knives but those were only used by new apprentices that did not invest in a proper personal knife set. But getting consistent in the Shinogi line and at the concave side and the rest will follow consistency is key but with hand sharpening you will always vary in angles. A company that I worked with in the past. Their high-speed camera captured all footage from all hand sharpeners and directly got a 3D model with the current angle per stroke. They discovered the following: Actually have to look for the email and will add it in a new comment once I have found it.
