hi, interesting point. remember, the sound comparison is only one part of this presentation, there are many other differences that I highlight. In my opinion the comparison of factory presets on both instrument is more interesting than loading same presets on each instrument. after all, the mk2 has improved FM and newer presets so it would be a waste to just load in the same old mk1 presets? do you guys really want to listen to comparison of 12 bit versus 16 bit DACs? :) anyway I glossed over it in the video but I spent 4 hours trying to load dx7 mk1 presets into dx7s. at some point you have to move on. thx for the feedback, cheers, i'll pin your post. :)
It doesn't have to be mk1 factory presets. You could just load same SysEx dump into both instruments and then compare. But still it's fun video, and very professional, good presentation skills, enthusiastic personality, multiple cameras, multiple angles, fish eye lens, these are far more involved than loading SysEx dump. And yeah, I agree, that hearing the difference between 12-bit and 16-bit would have to be done in some clinical pure environment. I mean, human ear adjusts. For instance, when I switch over from Sony MDR-7506 headphones to Sennheiser HD280, it's quite shocking how muted the latter sounds compared to the first one. But after couple days of listening to the HD280, they sound as bright to me. Human ear has tendency to adjust and compensate (actually brain does this for us), same as white balance is also compensated by the brain depending on light condition. So we see roughly the same colors under different light condition, even though the color reflection and absorption are quite different under different light colors. So, good luck comparing 12-bit and 16-bit sounds within the same dynamic range. I have a Roland W-30 sampler, which is 12-bit, and it sounds absolutely gorgeous. You can compare it with 16-bit Roland S-770 all you want, but the differences will be for all practical intents and purposes negligible, especially if you sample at the same sampling rate.
True, although even with the same patch, the Mk 1 keyboard delivers a maximum velocity of about 117 (I can't remember the actual value) so, with velocity assigned to a modulator in particular, the difference would be noticeable. I owned a DX7 Mk 1, a DX7S and a TX7, albeit not at the same time and I couldn't really tell the difference. I liked them all. Makes me wonder why I sold them but there you go!
For backwards compatibility, the DX7s (and DX7ii) did NOT fix the limited velocity output via MIDI. For years I used a MIDI Solutions velocity converter…I used it to get the full velocity range out of the DX7s MIDI out and ‘tame’ the velocity MIDI input when driving the DX7s from another keyboard.
Good video, thank you! Mk1 is cooler for my taste, because the sound is warmer - in general I'm a big fan of vintage analog synths (with big, warm and organic sound), but DX7 and D50 it's a really great digital devices in my opinion ...
Personally prefer the DX7 II. Brighter and just a bit more refined in terms of clarity and tone! Both were awesome boards at the time! Thanks for a great demo Woody 👌
@@rogerfelez7478 yea exactly! Plus I think by my memory, it had no internal effects? Or was that the D50? 🤔 had to run separate sound modules and effects racks etc lol How technology has escalated!! 😂 I'd love to get an old DX7 just for pure nostalgia lol going for like silly money on eBay now! Should've kept mine but sold it years ago
I seem to recall my DX7 not having velocity at all. But I guess it could be some incompatibility with my sequencer. Well too late to diagnose it, lol don't have the DX7 nor the Atari 520ST anymore.
The differences in sound have a lot to do with patch programming: -The MKII clearly uses modulator VS carrier detuning in many patches, yielding a more “chorusy” sound. -Also in the MKII modulator OPs seem to be set to higher output overall, yielding brighter sounds.
I have to say, I REALLY do prefer the original DX7 sound. I think it sounds much better. I just purchased a P125 from Yamaha and it has the DX 7 included. It sounds so much like your demo of the original. Thank you for the video.
The MK1 was very thin. And sadly not much could be done if you were wanting rich deep sound. It has a certain charm which some like, but it really is just a lesser to the MK2 in every way.
lol, you type like a child. And there is no after-effects, no EQ, nothing, you can apply to remove digital noise. It's better to just use the Mark II from the beginning.
The reason the DX-7 II sounds won't transfer over to the DX-7 is because each patch of the DX-7 II had it's own set of Performance Parameters. On the original DX-7 the Performance Parameters would have to be the same for all patches. The DX-7 II also used more advanced Keyboard Scaling, Micro Tuning and alternate Keyboard Tunings and other features such as Voice Stacking. It was also a Stereo Instrument. You could transfer the DX-7's sounds into the DX-7 II but they don't sound the same. I don't know why. You didn't mention the TX-816 which was the real monster. I believe only 100 DX-7 Centennial models were produced. At the time of this writing there is one for sale on Reverb for just a few hundred dollars less than the original price.
I midi transfer my DX7s voices 1-32 or 32-64 to the DX7 and TX7 and you're correct, some voices don't transfer correctly or don't sound the same. But sometimes you try several more times and you might get lucky as it auto corrects itself and transfers perfectly. This has been my experience. And frankly I much prefer the DX7 keybed I can barely hear myself think with the extremely noisy DX7s keybed unless I have my headphones on
Of course it is possible to use DX7 IID patches and banks in DX7 MkI - VCED and VMEM data blocks are the same, there's a full compatibility. Additional data blocks with later model specific data will be ignored.
Even with the same patch loaded, you will always find differencies. The output stage of the first DX7 is very different from its successors, it was made of a 12 bit DAC plus 3 bits made by a r2r non matched converter (15 bits total). Later machines always had 16 bit dac on chip.
I had a Dx7S, sounds like shit. now i have the Dx7 Mk1 and its great, I use alot. The Dx7s is much more agressive, the MK1 is mellow and soft(I dont know why). They dont have the same sound at all.
The difference is THE CONVERTERS. The MK1 is 12 bit. The MK2 is 16 bit. Its like of you compare a RX5 drum machine to a RY30. The RX5 has more body more punch. I had the DX7S too and sold it and got a DX7 and will never let it go. Put is through a decent chorus and tou have MAGIC.
Loading presets from one to the other should be no problem at all and they will sound exactly the same without any editing. :-) Just set "sys info" to "avail" in the function menu on both DX. When selecting a new preset the unit will now send the patch data over midi. On some DX the "sys info" function is not labeled on the front panel. Surprisingly this also works quite well when you send patches from the DX7ii to a DX9 with only 4 operators. In many cases you have only to edit the modulation indexes to get them to sound (more or less) the same as the original patch. Be aware! The first batches of DX7 and DX9 models sent a sysex header without data and without closing it, as an alternative implementation of "active sensing". This trips up all other Yamaha gear when you connect them over MIDI. However sending MIDI from a "newer" DX to one of these early units works ok. This might be why you had no luck sending patches from the "original" DX7 to the DX7s. Just try the other way around. The keyboard is exactly the same on both models. This keyboard is also used in the SY77, Korg M1 and other Korg and Yamaha synths. However there is a difference between units. Part of this is from the springs losing tension over time. These springs are just metal strips. Taking the keyboard apart and turning the springs "upside down" helps to restore a firmer action.
I think the DX7 II sounds much brighter but if I buy one I'd still go with the DX7. And that Lately Bass patch you played at the end - everytime I hear it all I can hear is the bassline to the opening theme to Top Gun. Guess it's because I'm a child of the 80s... Wonder where Harold Faltermeyer is now. He used the DX7 loads.
AFAIK The DAC arrangement between the two was not a simple 12 / 16. Whilst the DX7 had a 12 bit DAC it also had another 2 bit discreet DAC giving greater than 12 bit range and feeding a 16khz 2-pole low-pass filter. On the II the 16 bit was actually reduced, albeit very slightly, to 15 as D0 was not used.
ps i had a TX802 and while it sounded like the DX7II it only had 16 voice poly, the multi-timbrality was only ok for splitting patches and layering, to get 8 dx7s you would have to go the TX816 route which allowed up to x8 DX7s as way of a 8 single inline modules called a TF1 which was inserted into a TX816 modular rack unit.
Not the best comparison video in terms of actual comparison.. but it might be one of the most enjoyable! Seeing you having fun with both the units was a blessing to watch :)
I really know this feeling. Well, I was born in 1982, so my Childhood was in the 80s, but I wasn't interested in Pop Music or Keyboards at all, then. It began much later, at the end of the 90s. But I do feel high nostalgia about 80s Music, though. I have no idea how this is possible, but it is.
What puzzles me is that almost anyone here likes the DX7 mk1 better, yet the price of a vintage DX7 mk II is usually a lot higher. How does that compute?
Nice video but... you forgot the cheap but famous TX81Z (kind of DX21 rackmount version), the flagships DX5 /DX1... and the V50 Workstation (with builtin sequencer, effects and sample based drummachine)... By the way, the TX802 is not really 8 DX7mkII in a rack because the polyphony is not so huge...it's more a kind of super DX7mkII that can share its 16 notes polyphony between 8 patches simultaneously. If you really are looking for 8 DX7 in a rack, please have a look on the TX816 but it's very rare and expensive...
The Mk2 sounds way better than the Mk1. On the MK1 all the sounds tend towards a pure sine wave as you play towards the top of the keyboard due to a low sampling frequency combined with over-aggressive anti-aliasing. That's why the Mk2 sounds a lot brighter. Personally, combined with the membrane buttons, I wouldn't touch a Mk1.
I don't want to sound mean but... I've never seen someone try to compare two synths without even getting the same patches... Why did you even make a comparison vid if you don't compare the sound?
same patches? what nonsense? these are two different synths, one is 5 years newer, with different factory patch banks and capabilities. what would be the point on loading dx7 presets on the later synth, they would sound identical, duh!
@@WoodyPianoShack the voice architecture and parameter ranges are identical, despite the age difference. (That goes quite a ways towards explaining the DX7's popularity, despite its digital noise, and the DX7II's unpopularity, despite its massively-improved sound.) I don't know why you're bragging about not understanding these synths despite owning them. Most people would be ashamed to admit that.
Woody, check out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XTZlk4cYUKg.html since you seem to doubt that the two keyboards can play identical patches from identical sysex's. No tweaks of anything necessary! Same exact sysex into both keyboards yields the same exact musical sound. Now, since this guy is playing a lot of notes of lush patches with zero pitch env or pitch bend, aliasing is fairly buried, which is a shame as he could have easily demonstrated exactly what all this aliasing sounds like.
I used to play synthesizer in my church's band. We had some very generous patrons. When I started playing there, someone had donated a Jupiter 8, but the pastor didn't like the sound of it, so it got relegated to the youth ministry. The next keyboard was a Roland JX8P. Then came the big old Yamaha DX-1. Unfortunately, it was stolen, and if often wondered where it ended up considering there were only 140 of them made I think. Some private collector somewhere has a stolen keyboard in his or her possession.
Bought myself a cheap TX7 (the expander version of the 1st DX7) a couple of years ago, and will now get a DX7II for free (from someone who wanted to throw it away actually). Looking forward to do a comparison, which has become a lot easier now with the free Dexed plugin, which allows you to load a patch and transfer it to any DX7 connected via MIDI by simply right-clicking the plugin and selecting "send to DX7")!
Machine 386 Yes it seems a bit strange that they just didnt make the cartridges backwards compatible with any further hardware. Lol it reminds me of how the late 80s early 90s games consoles used to use adapters.
instead of a DX7 mark 1 or 2, get Arturia DX7 V or Plogue OPS7 both with a very good controller. Plogue OPS7 for the best Mark 1 emulation, plus fx, two layers, OPL waveforms and others. Arturia DX7 V (maybe based on Mark 2?) for the filters, maybe more modulation options, envelopes, more fx than OPS7, unison, more waveforms, LFOs...
NOT THE SAME DAC 12/16 bits BB PCM 54 HP 91db the same of the D 50 AND K 2000 KURZ!!!!it is not an entire 16 bits and works also with 1 bits if the sound became n so harmonics in hight frequences !!!so probably not the highter one dac))))
I have a Yamaha a DX7 in Best Working Condition, i want to sell it if anybody is intrested please contact me on javedmughal01@gmail.com or Wattsapp. 0092 302 836 0856
I have an original DX7 and 1 that you didn't mention, a Yamaha TX81Z which is some kind of DX7 rack mount. It sounded great as I recal and I have not played with them in years.
More than 60k subscribers for this shit footage… it s a joke …. Actually it s not a joke many people on Utube don t know what they are talking about . Utube is a complete mess and the problem for beginners in any topics is to find the right person who has the real knowledge….
Used to have a DX11 - Only 4 operator FM but 8 part multi-timbrel (and only 8 note polyphony) .Stacked sounds on it could sound huge... Mine was stolen in the 90s but I'd imagine it's still out there somewhere as it was built like a tank.
I still have, and still use a DX11. I use it as my main MIDI controller, because it plays so nice. But I also love the sounds on this thing as well. I created a whole song using only the DX11 and a drum machine. And yes, the DX11 IS built like a tank!
Yes indeed, the TX81Z ended up being more popular for some reason, but it's exactly the same as the DX11, but without the keyboard. Highly recommend the DX version :)
Amazing video! I absolutely love the dx-7!! It sounds sooo warm! I love the patch that you played on the older dx-7 when you were comparing the action on the keys! It sounded amazing! I will actually be purchasing a Roland Super JX-10 in a few days, can’t wait to play it!!
Update: just bought my Roland Super JX-10 yesterday, and I absolutely love it! It has amazing synth leads and amazing pads!! It also has after touch!! And much more! It’s heavy and built like a tank! Can’t wait to explore it more!!
My DX7IIFD also only transmits MIDIdynamic up to 100. They changed that with the SY77. Older mkI ROM and RAMcards can be used on the mkII models using an adapter ADP-1. But in read only mode. mkI RAMcards couldn't be used for storage. The Centennial model was released in 1988 at the company's 100th anniversary. Hence the name.
i think the da convertor on the old dx7 must more analog circuitry around the output stage, i had a 1987 TX802 rack and have to say i prefer the 1983 DX7 original. it just sounds loads nicer, the TX802 was just too sterile to my ears.
@@lqr824 do you actually read things before dishing out insults ? I'm talking about my ownership of both the tx802 and the mk1 dx7, not his patches. Patch differences or not you can tell the difference between the warmth.
For those of you who, like me, were looking for an exact patch for patch comparison between the DX7 and the DX7ii this video, by "Paul", is a much better option: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XTZlk4cYUKg.html. It compares patches with exactly the same settings, with no effects, on both synths. Listen with decent speakers or headphones. Unfortunately you still may not find it as helpful as you might like, although in this case through no fault of the creator's. The uncomfortable truth I found is that some patches sound better on the DX7, whilst others sound better on the DX7ii: not at all the clean cut result in one direction or the other that I was hoping for. You may not feel the same way. I'd say if you're looking to make a purchase decision on a used synth, it's a much more informative video but, due to the nature of these synths, not necessarily more divisive. Look: I don't hate this video from Woody Piano Shack - it's kind of a fun romp through the different presets on each synth (which are different to eachother!) - and he's clearly a nice guy, but it's not particularly helpful if you're looking to decide which of these synths you should buy, which is I assume why many of you are here.
Great video. In my opinion the DX7 presets sound much more characteristically DX7ey and individual. The DX7s presets are more "generic digital synth sound" sounding, maybe to compete/compare with the D50.
I was a noob to fm synthesis and I almost didn't buy a dx7IID because of this video. I'm happy i still bought it because it sounds just like the original dx7 but with more features. You can layer patches on the IID which is a bonus. This video does no justice to the dx7IID because it sounds just as good as the original with the same patches loaded. As others have mentioned this video is pointless without the same patches loaded into both synths. This video does nothing other than keeping the price of the dx7iid down so i thank you for that.
I wish you did an initialised patch on each unit on algorithm one maybe and demoed each synth in with and without a modulating operator, as it seems though I do prefer the sound of the mk1 dx7
I have a DX7. The action and the overall feel is so much better than any of my Korgs or Roland's.. and better than the couple of other Yamaha's I have.. I simply love that board..
You're right. once played a DX 7 the Korg M1 Id love so much vanished away. although the Korg M1 has its style to for the more house musicgenre. Im the happy ower of them all. KOrg M1 Roland D50 Yama DX 7? ROland Jx8p, ROland XP50 , JV1000 JV1080 . TH ey hav all their specific timbre.
@@pascalvanelstlande6954 you have all the good ones.. lol. I still have a JV1000 , love that board, had a D50. of course my DX7.. then there's the korg Karma, M50 , and old DW6000. love that one too. Chroma Polaris, moog phatty.. I'm running short on Rolands.. would love another juno 106. people want to much for them.. lol.. I hit all the pawn shops every month looking.. ya never know what you might find
Thank you woodi' back at the day those two where a dream today im using Yamaha motif xs 6 i can say tha the action on the keys is like the dx 7 and like the dx 7 the earlier model of the motif its better to use .--- pianos sounds electric and the Hammond sounds .... when it comes to work stains the new versions of motif were great. cheers. kfir.
I despite being able to get all the sounds I’d want from a plug-in in my DAW. I certainly miss my DX7. And I’m sure if I run across the right deal @ the right time I’ll end up with one again.
The DX7 S had a great a great feature where you could select a program button and program it to simultaneously transmit a different program number that could correspond to a sound on another keyboard so you could mix your favorite sounds on different boards using midi without having to change the presets on either keyboard. Very cool at the time.
Its always such a pleasure to watch your videos Woody! I'd like to know your opinion about this: I'm interested in getting a TX816... Having 8 DX7s in a rack seems amazing, and I can see myself producing entire songs just with it. However, I heard that the DX7 MK1 can be quite noisy, and stacking 8 of them can then be too noisy for now a days standards.... What do you think about this? Do you believe that 8 DX7s will produce too much hiss to make them usable professionally now a days? Many thanks!!! Toni
TX802 is almost a monster: you see, every time you add a sound layer, it detracts from your 16-note polyphony. So with all eight layers firing at once, it becomes just a duophonic synth. Now TX816 on the other hand is the real monster. It comes with 8 individual modules, each of which is a bare bones DX7 mk1 sound engine with a XLR balanced output. You need a dedicated submixer like Yamaha MV802 or Yamaha DMP11 to mix and pan all the modules. When set up correctly in the stereo field, it's the most amazing and massive punchy synth you'll ever hear on this side of CS-80. The 32 factory presets for the 816 were programmed like partials: with each module handling a single part of the big sound. For example it's Rhodes emulation has a single module producing the percussive clicks and the others doing other partials.
I have the 802 and I use it for live work and especially for bass sounds that don't require lots of polyphony. I program a performance patch with 4 different bass sounds on different MIDI channels, That leaves me two notes for each sound which is enough for my bass needs and my sequencers play these parts. Works very well. That said I too prefer the sound of the MK1 and in the studio I nearly always turd to the original for my FM sounds. Cheers!
@anton, thanks for correcting me on my TX802 "8 DX7s in a box" statement. now you say it, it seems obvious that they share polyphony. i feel quite humbled that so many people more knowledgeable than myself have contributed to the comments, cheers.
Woody Piano Shack No problem, just infodumping people about the 816 at every opportunity I get! If you ever get your hands on a 816, I suggest you try it out with each module panned and detuned, and nice stereo reverb applied to them. It sounds absolutely bonkers that way. When I'm done recapping mine, I'll upload a factory preset playthrough! I mean, can you think of any other synth from the 80s with 128-note polyphony? Damn!
It's not cheap, but definitely a lot cheaper than buying eight DX7s or even TX7s. TO my understanding they go somewhere in the 500-1000€ price range, but as you often need to buy an incomplete unit and add extra modules to it, it's hard to count. I combined two units over the period of a year, and sold the rest - so counting everything I think I paid 600€ for it in the end, and 130€ for DMP11 digital mixer (that has an inbuilt almost-dual SPX90 effects engine!). I think you can do a lot worse synthwise for that kind of money!
Thanks for the video. A question: at about 10:15 you mentioned that the DX-7 has a certain warmth to it. Does that warmth come from the difference in presets, or does it come from the difference in DAC? I'm deciding which to buy and it would be nice to know if I could get that same warmth on the brass presets through the mark II, then it would simply be a case of loading presets. Of course, if the warmth comes from the smaller DAC, then getting the same warmth wouldn't be possible. Thanks in advance!
I'm sure the warmth is from the presets. I've heard other videos comparing the same presets on both models and they sound the same. I think the audio difference between DACs is marginal and has no effect on warmth.
It sounds exactly as 80s if you have the same patches. The original just has more digital distortion, but that doesn't make it sound "80s," that just makes it sound bad.
