"Live Set" is like a list of "Performances" that you could click through while performing, you may want to repeat a performance without having to remember the sequence of live set buttons to press (just click them in order, the current one is always a bit brighter than the others). I think if you look at 7:30 in your video and notice the "Update Current Live Set Slot" checkbox being checked, that this feature of the instrument will become more intuitive to you.
Of course Kevin,... as much as I love this instrument, I'm happy to say I'm still learning it and amazed more each time I discover something new, Thank you very much for your message Kevin.
Really means a lot to me seeing you comment Kevin, many thanks mate, I have more to share and will be continuing in this case, wishing you the best time in this joyful season.
Thanks for the update on these issues (bugs😉). I can see where part of the saving structure is purposefully the way it is, yet agree that aspect of song building should be much more intuitive. I also agree it would be useful to be able to see the offsets of the different tunings much easier and simply. But more so the feature you revealed is great. That is something that uses the power of the keyboard to great advantage. I don’t think I realized your song was as complex and arranged. Really excellent and talented music and I’m sure fun to play.👍 Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and New Year to you too!🎄☃️🎄
Your comments means the world to me Chris. Thank you so much mate. Wishing the best of Christmas and hopefully a Happy New Year Mr. Atmos Best Regards Heider
I think your suggestion to Yaman team is on spot, i just wished you used A and B instead of Something and Something Else cause that was difficult to follow, but over all Great Video
Me Too Haithoom... My GoPro Hero-9 which should be the most advanced thing switched off during recording twice earlier giving me such a bad headache... not sure if this was because I "moved" previous files out of it, I formatted the SD Card and now it finished recording like before,... I'm also about to buy the DJI action cam and see if that's any better... these are not cheap buggers you know :)
Yes you explained it clearly sir. Keep in mind the performance recorder was added to the OG Montage in a firmware update, so Yamaha likely didnt think through the ramifications of all of this. Or it could be a limitation of the hardware
Hi @xtremesoundspresets, I totally understand this point and can see that the instrument could do better, it's likely that not many users did what I did to discover these issue, ... I've been away for few days now back to record another one today or tomorrow. Thank you very much for your message and Happy New Year
Thank you @bit-metric-1016 Looking back at the video I did, I realise that I kept jumping between topics as I try to remember something and then a million things pops onto my head then get back to the topic,... hopefully I learned that now :) Thank you very much for your comments
What you describe at 16:00 is happening because when you change the pattern on this screen, it is moving through all of the patterns on the instrument and not just patterns associated with the currently active performance. When you switch to a pattern that is in another performance, the instrument is switching performances (I would agree this is very unexpected from a user interface perspective) and when it switches performances, all of the changes to the performance you just left are erased! Moral of the story is not to change patterns there until you know that you have saved your work and want to edit a different pattern. This I think might warrant a software update, maybe a toggle to prevent leaving the current performance.
This is exactly right Kevin, the bug in this scenario is to at leave give a warning, or just simply let the user load the Pattern (or performance) by manually clicking on something... I don't want to leave my performance when in my head I am actually editing it.
And if you can remember that "Something" is live slot 2 and "Something Else" is live slot 8, you don't need to click the "Live Set" button, you can stay on the "Performance" view, and just click the correct live set button (2 or 8) and you will see the performance on the big screen changes intuitively.
This instrument is way smarter than I am thus I have no idea how to use it. 😂 When I'm feeling really dumb I go to my YC73 which I also love. Keep these videos coming so I can learn more about my M8x. The greatest thing it does is PAT with endless options for modulation and expressive control. Fun for the whole family and something for everyone. Yamaha is the king of warning messages historically so I have to be amused that two things are happening: 1) No undo controls to some substantial degree and 2) It leaves your work and loses it if you do something in error. This is again what I harp on which is basic common sense in programming and understanding that the common user doesn't understand your intricate processes. Yamaha is awful at common sense interfacing. Were these things not an issue on the original Montage? My thought for buying the M was that after 7 years it would "Work Perfectly". That's a good analogy that Yamaha needs to adopt per Heider. Once you enter a room (performance) that everything you need is present (& fully editable) and that you should not be able to exit that room until/unless you intend to exit. Within that room you shouldn't unexpectedly be transported to somewhere else & lose work. There should be NO way out of that room except back out the door you came in and only when you intend to exit.
It is the best instrument I've had yes super complicated but really inspirational and nice. Of course I will be making more videos just dealing with a XMAS in a married live at the moment :) Thank you David, really nice to hear from you.
I am originally from Iraq and I have been enjoying your videos and playing some of the 1980 music from Adele Olga. I had a Yamaha MODX and sold it but you are inspiring me to purchase the gen 2 montage.
Kul il hala beek Habeebi, oo Ashat Eedak ala il-message I loved Adil Ogla (Adil 2000) in particular, I made few songs but had no time to share online, I keep thinking I should, I made a very nice start and mid section for "Baad Hayhat" which I really like to share. I sold my Montage 8 earlier and got the M8x, it's definitely worth it, and is my best instrument so far, believe me it's miles improvement from the old M8 especially on how easy it is to edit screens/sounds/precs etc. The only problem is the few lockups I had earlier, occurs once in a while, there is a software update available but had no time to try that yet as I am currently in the US right now, will be back soon and hopefully make more videos. Thank you again @springkordz and 100,000,000 Hala beek. Kind Regards Heider
You have a point. What Yamaha could do, is perhaps allow users to choose the workflow around copying, linking etc. The downside of that approach of course would be making the software the engineers have to maintain more complex. Don't worry about people getting up in arms about the nomenclature, I see it daily at work. "Bug, Issue, Feature (lol)", it really doesn't matter in the end...
The instrument switches to a new pattern when you press record from the performance screen because the assumption there is that you want to begin working on a new pattern in the current performance (because you are in the performance view). If you want to work on the current pattern, you should first click the "Song/Pattern" button (notice you are on the current pattern), then click record.
Well, 2 points in response to that Kevin: 1) The manual states to press "record" anywhere from the performance screen to record, it doesn't mention that it will change the pattern to a new one as usually a brand new instrument would always show "New Patter XXX" anyway. 2) If this is the case then referring to my video, the first time I pressed "Record" from the HOME screen, it created "New Pattern 8"... when I repeated the process again without leaving the performance screen it dod "New Pattern 9"... If I go to any other screen and press Record again then it's a newer one and so on... Usually after each song I make after spending a couple of days I end up cleaning over 10 "New Pattern XXX" where I had nothing to do in creating them, just makes the administration more difficult having the system being too intelligent to switch Patterns by itself. Isn't it better if I the instrument didn't do that switching? ... I mean if I wanted to do a new Pattern then all I have to do is have a "Create Pattern" button instead? What do you think?
@@HeiderSati I discovered that same issue with it assuming "record" means a new pattern. That makes no sense. It kept auto creating new consecutive patterns instead of staying on the same one I wanted to edit. I often just give up thinking I don't know what I'm doing but it's probably not me after all.
Well @@davlippo7 at the moment the best thing you can do right now is to click on "Store" if you are happy with anything you did, this way will keep you going for now until Yamaha come back with a better solution.
I think for the "Something Else Pat" issue, you need to realize that any changes you make to the patterns will be lost if you switch performances without saving those changes (and if you think about a workflow use case instead of the use case of just trying to figure out how this all works, the instrument's behavior here is also an efficient choice as the alternative would be having a warning to save changes each time you switched performances or having autosaves that make it impossible to perfect something and save it)
I totally agree Kevin, this is exactly why I referred this case to Yamaha as there is something definitely to be done there to streamline the "Copy" function to include all these items.
for the tunings, the numbers on the edit screen are relative to the current global tuning. so if you want to copy Arabic 1, just set global to arabic 1, select an unused user tuning number, notice all zeroes, and hit initialize to save. That is now a match for Arabic 1, or you could adjust it a bit, then when you hit Initialize it will match your adjustments and you could adjust them further relative to the current state. It's designed to make it easy to make *relative* changes.
Hi Kevin This is what I thought as well, but when I studied carefully the numbers are taken from the last (user) setting you worked on, for instance if you set it to Arabic-1, check and then set it to Arabic-2, check, you will see the same values there.
Heres the issue with the pattern sequencer. One would think the performance stores the pattern but its the other way around. Therefore you cannot use the Live Set links to change patterns. From Yamaha: The currently loaded Song can be associated (linked) with the Performance, so that when you recall the Song Name, the appropriate Performance used to create it is recalled, as well. Under the Performance Name touch the box “Store Song & Perf Settings” to establish this link:
Thank you @xtremesoundspresets I can see that this is how it is working at the moment probably has not been stress tested, my message to Yamaha is: “is that right”? If I’m sitting inside my Performance and there are elements surrounding me including Patterns, motion control etc, the. Technically there must not be anything that causes where I am at to be changed to a totally innocent performance that I could damage, I hope I’m making sense
Yes, I remember well how annoying it was when I wanted to continue my work from the home screen and it automatically created a new pattern ;-D My nightmare was the fact that you can't see later on if a pattern is a repeated one (when increased the length after recording). Recording something new to it and you can get unexpected results. I wish they make the pattern editor as a table where you lay down the patterns and have a fast and easy handling. The same is with creating and handling (user) arpeggios. It's not user friendly, too much back and forth.
I totally agree with you, let's hope Yamaha come back with a good update, they never let me down in the past and I don't see how they would miss out on this issue. I will keep you updated, Many thanks @SOPM2007
For example can't a performance contain many type of patterns such a 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (maybe with slight variations like in actual songs chained together) and "it's thinking" that you will be chaining those together eventually. To prevent you from overwriting the one you just recorded it jumps to the next available open slot. Not sure if it's losing data in the process as that would be a different issue. It should simply prompt you whether you want to go back to the previous pattern or record in a new open one. If patterns take precedence by design it's unlinking the performance and auto-assigning the next available pattern slot for your next recording. It doesn't seem to understand by design that you want to record over the last pattern recorded or it assumes that has been completed. Overthinking your intention.
Hi @davlippo7 In regards to multiple-types of patters, I think that could be an enhancement request. However, in regards to what's happening at the moment, it's more of a safety issue, in a sense that I have entered my new Performance and now any parameter I am working on is related to that Performance, the safety bit is that when I change my Pattern into something else, then without warning the instrument is taking me from my new performance into say; a pervious "finished" performance that I don't want to change and by doing so any parameter I am working on will ruin my previous work, something should never ever happen. On the chained bits, I should be making another video soon, just right now I am attending a funeral as my best friend's father died sadly, once I'm back then I should be working on my next video which is a Yamaha update to one of the bugs mentioned earlier. Have a good day, we'll talk later, thanks
I have a nice one to make will do as soon as I’m back from Switzerland, Aws father died 2 days ago and I’m with him at the moment. Thank you my friend, I’m sure will do one around new year.
Hi, it’s disturbing I understand, you’re lot alone for new user, here is some basic points on Montage M using. First of all, there is only one pattern or one song load on Montage M, whatether performance you choose you Will have always the same pattern load. The pattern call the performance and not the reverse, you know this you have tell in your video, I know it’s disturbing, but this is how it’s work, perhaps Yamaha R&D team can change that in future but they do not do it since the OS 2.0 where pattern was added to Montage first generation, on 2018 if I remember fine, by the way we need to apply this way to done. When you copy a live set slot, you copy the slot, that’s why it’s call copy, this is the same link when you copy but after like you done, like you show you can link to one other performance, at the base you copy the slot like it is, you are in live mode and not in performance, after you can change the volume if need. PS if you simply press on an empty slot, it link to the slot the current performance 😉 We’ll see for the slot that change the name after create a performance copy, here it’s something that not must append and to be correct 👍 You can assign a pattern to a live set: choose a pattern that will call the good performance link and from the pattern screen press shift + live set (be careful to be on the good scene memory you want to start cause it will also take this in count), when it’s done now by clicking on the live set slot, it load the pattern that call the performance link and you can go directly to play the good pattern you want on scene you need to start. Thank you for your video. Hope it’s help, have a merry Christmas 🎄
Thank you very much @Moessieurs, I appreciate your comments. Yes I agree with you that "this is how it works" and "may not change due to backward compatibility", that's totally fine. My reason for involving Yamaha on this issue in particular is to do with "But, is this right?" ... or more of a "how about if we do... instead?", I think personally users in general buy a synth to generate sounds rather than creating patterns, which means probably either not many (or no one?) reported this to Yamaha before to make them aware that there is something to be checked or looked into. It's not the end of the world for me if Yamaha comes back saying "sorry, can't change it mate" as I now know their logic from that perspective, but would be great if they say "yes, we can see that, and hopefully our engineering teams are looking further into this" which is what kinda the response I had from support to indicate they are checking this further. I hope this makes sense (well at least from my perspective), hopefully you are enjoying your Christmas and a Happy New year. Thanks again for your message, really appreciate your comments.
Thank you @AntonySanjay23892 I am making another video within the next 2 days, Yamaha's update and another bug discovered in the process. I've been abroad for the past few days and now I'm back.
Hi @Lenky-Don, the short and sweet answer is "no" unfortunately, this is the limitation that I am facing at the moment and trying to show it on a video, but for some strange reason everytime I try to record something pops up and take me away on urgent business... I will be making another video in fact started filming 30% and should really get something out soon, I believe the answer to your question will be demo'd on my next video, bear with me I will do my best to give you a good answer hopefully. Kind Regards Heider
8:00 Okay, you review a keyboard that you clearly don't understand yet (pehaps you do now but not at the time when you made the video). Firstly, you're talking about a bug. A bug is a program error. But this is not a bug, this is a (in my opinion clever) feature that behaves differently than you want it to. But it is by design and exactly as intended. Secondly: The Live View is a page where you can create references to Performances. When you copy, you are not copying the Performance, but the reference. Nevertheless, it is a copy. That's exactly how it should be, because that's what the Live View is for. For example, if you have a Performance with a "Universal Piano Pad Layer" that you use several times, you can refer to the same Performance several times. And if you want to tweak this Performance, you don't have to adjust it in several places, but only once, following the references. It makes perfect sense and is suitable for Live. But it gets worse: You save your performance again and the device asks you (at 7:25) whether it should update the current live set slot. This option is checked. You could have unchecked it, but you didn't. Then at 8:00 you complain that it has been overwritten, although you literally decided it that way. To be honest, when you get a new device, you should take your time to learn it and read the manual or ask in forums if necessary. Instead of annoying Yamaha support with "bug" complains and even releasing a video with the title "Bug"... even though you simply haven't grasped the keyboard yet.
Despite all the criticism: Nice performance and demonstration of the scene switching feature at 35:50. Good job, I liked it. It also looks here (if I'm seeing it correctly) as if the scene doesn't change on the 1 of the new measure, but shortly before. This is cleverly thought out and very practical for live usage.
Hi Lukas Thank you for your message. As much as I appreciate your opinion I have to however disagree with you on the points you have raised, the reason is "fundamentals"... here is why: If I use your example of "copying a performance into few more, but then tweaking one would affect all the copies", then the terminology used should be referred to as an "instance of" (or "link to") but not a "copy"... regardless of which screen this is on or what background it uses, a copy is like a backup that must never be modified by altering another item under any circumstances. If however I create a "link" or "instance" to my original then I would be totally aware and feel responsible that tweaking any item from these would affect the others like you say. If that's confusing you then it's quite easy to use a file on a device PC/MAC/Linux/Unix/Sparc/Sysetm-I/System-Z/etc, if you "copy" a file then they become totally independent to each other, changing one does not affect the other whatsoever,... if you create a link (or "shortcut" if using Windows) then editing the source or the link would end up in the same file. If I create my song, copy it to another to create a variation but then realise that both source and new files have been modified then this is called "data loss" and believe me there is absolutely nothing (as you say "cleaver" in your opinion) about it, hence calling it a bug. I raised this case (along with other issues) with Yamaha Support, they didn't reject my call or gave me a similar answer like yours, they however acted more professionally and mentioned they are working on it and will be doing further investigations (and probably updates) in due course. In regards to the point you raised about "getting a new device" and that "I should read about it", well, I've done that already but there is no indication that the "copy" is actually a "link". Furthermore; I've also read the Montage 8 manual over 4 years ago when I got my previous one. Another point you raised: "annoying Yamaha support with...", do you work for (or own) Yamaha to make such a statement?! ... officially my relationship with Yamaha has been very good on the contrary as I own many Yamaha products and my experience with Yamaha has always been positive. If I called this video (a bug) is only because I believe that's the case, you are free and most welcome to disagree and voice your opinion but mate; let's not loose respect for each other by using sentences like "you don't understand" or "annoying Yamaha with" etc if that's ok with you. I do enjoy making my videos and will continue to do so, as it's a free world nobody is forcing you to watch mine anyway. Have a good day and thanks again for your message. Regards Heider
Thank you very much @@studioonetutorials , that's a very nice comment from you. I agree this feature was something I always wanted and I totally solute Yamaha for that. Sorry meant to make more videos but been extremely tied up with some project delivery and only came back from Switzerland last night ! Have a wonderful day mate.
@@HeiderSati It's perfectly fine for us to disagree. (Although it's obvious, I'd like to point out again that English is not my first language. My concern is not meant to sound rude, but not rational - that might get lost in another language, and I'm sorry for that). However, as you say, the live set slots are references (or links) to performances. Yes, under Windows, you can copy a link (.lnk file) as well. This creates a second link to the same source. This is exactly what happens in Live Set, too. You are not copying the underlying performance, you are copying the link. It's the same thing. As for the term "bug": it's a technical term, and it has an absolutely specific definition. You want the feature to be changed. That is your right to do so. But calling it a bug is clearly wrong, there's nothing to argue about. And no, I don't work for Yamaha. I'm just a user of this keyboard.
Thank you@@studioonetutorials , I thought there was a language barrier there somewhere, no worries at all. Ok, to cut the story short and summarise this whole section in just a one-line, I'd ask: How can I "Copy (or backup) my "work" into "My Final Song" ? Now, with "backup" I don't mean the whole instrument as this is there already, the issue I have (or why it is a bug) is that the work cannot be copied using the "copy" button, it's rather linking to another performance, ... furthermore, even if I go into the Performance (home) and then decide to "copy" into a new Pattern then that's still not good enough, mainly because both performances still pointing to the same Pattern... yes I understand (being a previous owner) that the instrument works this way, but it's extremely confusing and is not simple to manage finished work and always at the risk of being overwritten without having any chance to save or restore if anything went wrong other than the general Backup/Restore that does the whole instrument. I remember a couple of months ago speaking with Yamaha Support over the phone, we sat there for 20 minutes both of us trying to find a way to "copy" one Performance into a USB device so that I could email it to him, ... there was no way. I ended up backing up the whole instrument and sent it instead. This is counter productive for the sender and also for the receiver on the other end. That said; I still love this instrument, I think it is the best one out there, my video is to improve it and not criticise it and I hope that makes sense. Thanks again Lukas, stay in touch, I've been a little busy with so many family and friends over the past 2 weeks, hopefully will have more time to do more joyful videos. Have a great day.
I love my Montage Jason, it's my number-1 right now, the issues in this video are easy to fix as mostly they are cosmetic and menu changes etc, not deep into the core of the instrument. I have full respect to Nord too... but for me Montage is the winner.
I see your point @@vitaliypredoliak2124 , to me there are a lot of improvements made that pushed me to replace my old one with the M8x,... frankly with how it's inspiring me at the moment, personally for me is money well spent, I've never had so much joy with any instrument in the past. Yes, I agree with you, not cheap, but looking into the market, still there are hardly any competitors to be honest.
@@HeiderSati Yes, what's right, improvements happens time to time, and last one with Montage "M" (and Genos 2 too ) look pretty impressive. Despite that, in my opinion, the best yamaha keyboard was a Yamaha EX-5, this one was last before marketers put a "hands" in engineering... And, of cource, we got just a one optiion - try to get a point of concepts and ideas in last yamaha keyboards.
Thank you @@vitaliypredoliak2124 I've heard good things about the EX-5, sadly not owned one before. I think with the Montage (from a hardware perspective) the system is very capable of doing a lot, software-wise (works very well, could be better) in my opinion.
