Two excellent sounding hybrid digital pianos. I'd be happy to own either or both of them. But I must say that as far as their acoustic counterparts are concerned, I tend to like the sound of the Shigeru Kawai more than the CFX of Yamaha. So maybe that influences my choice.
Just purchased an N3X and it seems to me that piano sound on Yamaha was made to be played through its built in speakers. If one listens to other reviews comparing the Kawai NV10 to the N1X/N3X the sound is much drier on the Yamaha than on the Kawai. To me it seems like Yamaha purposely recorded their piano in anechoic chamber and moved their microphones as close to the instrument as possible to rid the piano of any ambience. The idea being that having a pure piano recording you then can realistically reproduce the original piano sound through the natural body and speakers of an artificial (hybrid) instrument. I believe the most realistic way to listen to the Avantgrand is through it’s speakers and not through the audio outputs of the instrument or resulting USB recording. As a compromise when listening to the Avantgrand other than through it’s built in speakers, Yamaha made a binaural recording of the instrument that is automatically activated when a headphone is inserted into the headphone jack. The idea being that the binaural recording capture a bit of the natural semblance of sitting in front of an acoustic piano. The binaural recording was a good idea but it seems to me like they got lazy and didn’t do it justice by recording in a much better environment like a hall or other room. The Kawai seems like their concept to capture their instrument was very different. Their priority probably was not the sound coming out of the speakers but through the sound coming out of headphones. As you can hear in recordings in other reviews the Kawai piano recording sounds much more mellow and in fact sounds much more natural in my opinion. You can hear how the recording picks up a bit more air from the soundboard and you can hear some semblance of ambience. The recording sounds good through headphones only. The Kawai also was not recorded with 4 separate independent channels like the Avantgrand. It was recorded for stereo output only. Also because they did not record their piano as pure as possible the Kawai seems like it reproduces the sound of their piano artificially as if it’s coming out of a pair stereo speakers rather than if it’s coming out of the instrument itself.
Kawai DP in general sound more acoustic like to me. It sounds more complex than Yamaha's. I think Yamaha should mix a bit more ambience in its samples. On the other hand, accoustic pianos, esp those used for practices, are being replaced by DP. Shouldn't we embrace the new and forget the past? At some point in the future, people will start accepting DP as the norm. We can then finally get rid of the let-off in DP. Replacing the sound? That will take much longer
@@samwang5831 yeah but your talking about through headphones or through speakers? The whole point of these hybrid pianos that sets it apart from a just a regular digital piano is it’s suppose to reproduce the sound of a real acoustic piano. It’s supposed to behave like a real instrument. Have you ever played a well tuned well regulated concert grand piano before? Maybe you haven’t played advanced music enough to appreciate the sound of an acoustic piano. And i have had many many digital piano throughout the years and there is no comparison. What hybrids are doing is way way beyond what a regular digital piano does both in feel and sound.
@@starwaves9917 I fail to see what your point is. I do play classical music although I am no concert pianist. I have owned 3 digital pianos and acoustic pianos over the years, mainly from Yamaha. But I have never owned a 'well tuned well regulated concert grand'. If that disqualifies from making a comment, no big deal
Starwaves: You've made an excellent point. Two parallel but differently sampled patches are needed for every sound on a hybrid - one for headphones and recording, and another for use with the cabinet and internal speakers.
I do think Yamaha sounds better through its built-in speaker system than Kawai. However, the way the samples are recorded is actually the opposite of what you have described, according to the technical information disclosed in their brochures. According to Kawai, they place their SK-EX in an anechoic chamber, then add the modeling engines. So, they start with a dry sound and artificially create the resonances and other artifacts. Yamaha does not disclose what they have done for the N3/N3X. I have not found a brochure from Yamaha that officially states they placed the CFX in an anechoic chamber. However, they do explain how the new Clavinova CLP-700 series was recorded: they do not place the CFX in an anechoic chamber to record the samples, but in a studio (at the Yamaha Innovation Center, a 100,000,000.00 state-of-the-art facility) where they also test their digital pianos. Then they place the actual digital piano in an anechoic chamber to rid the speakers of coloration created by the room. Then they place the piano again in a hemi-anechoic chamber, that looks like an icosahedron, which records sound pressure at several points in space. This analysis allows Yamaha to adjust the speaker system to sound like an acoustic counterpart. So, the reason why Yamaha's speaker system sounds better is, at least for the new CLP-700 and presumably for the N3X, not that the sample is drier (as it is recorded in a studio) but that Yamaha has a specific method to fine tune their digital piano speaker system that Kawai does not mention at all. I don't think Kawai's samples are better from a technical perspective. Kawai samples seem to fit more the V-curve that most people like in music in home stereo systems, which means a slightly scooped out midrange and accented bass and treble. Yamaha, on the other hand, is more midrange pronounced, which is a feature desired in live audio. So, these are just two different approaches to piano sound: one more "live music" style (Yamaha) and the other more "hi-fi/home speaker music" (Kawai). Neither one is intrinsically better, just different. But the main point of my argument is: Yamaha spends more time and effort than Kawai in creating speaker systems for their digital pianos to replicate the sound field of a real piano.
In contrast to what digitalpiano tells us about recording line out and not through speakers I think they are wrong. The should record both ways. Sound through speakers is what separates instruments and makes a huge difference when we decide which instrument we might buy. Companies make hard work to develop acustic propeties of digital pianos and I think we should be able to hear the result. Recording in not impossible . Acustic instruments are recordet all the time.
Hi! True, but then the microphone and sound interface determines the sound. This way we take one more thing out of the equation, but we'll see if we can get a good recording of the speakers some time :)
because they are digital....I think the Hybrid we prefer comes down to the speakers/amp used in each piano. I heard they used Onkyo amps in the Kawai...better amp...don't know what brand of speakers are put in teh Kawai vs Yamaha. Makes a difference. Maybe THE difference in the sound we hear. The acoutic pianos they are trying to mimic aside...
Nice comparison, but you're not using the N1X to its full potential. When listening through headphones, you get the binaural version of the CFX sound, which is much more natural sounding than the line out sound you hear here. When listening through the built-in speakers, you get the four-way sampling which, again, is more nuanced and "embracing" than the line out signal.
I wish there were two or three piano samples demonstrated on each piano, with both line-out and via microphones. As it happens, the Shigeru is my least favourite Kawai sound.
About my opinion Kaway's sound is warmer and more definite in its essence, I find listening this video with headphone that NV 10 sounds better and real to Shigeru acoustic gran piano!!
Antonio Perillo: These impressions are very subjective, as you probably know. One man's notion of warm can be another's notion of muddy. I like a more open piano sound than the Kawai Shigeru. Maybe you find the Yamaha CFX sound thin or brassy, but I usually find it clear, vibrant and colourful.
@@Zoco101 Hallo Mike, surely is a very personal point of view, I agreed with you that CfIII has a wonderful sound, but from the comparison between those two digital piano, Novus has seemed to have a richer sound... Obviously is the alive performance that can confirm or change each opinion. Thanks for your answer!
@@antonioperillo1182 That's funny. I can't see where I mentioned the CFIII, but yes, I love playing the CFIII piano itself, and also the patches made from it. The treble is so forgiving. I have never played anything with the CFX sound (and listening online I suspect I prefer the CFIII) but at Merriam Pianos, Stu's review of the VSL Synchron CFX blew me away. I wish that somebody would demonstrate the NS10S or NV5S with the older EX patch, since this seems more up my street than the SK-EX. Maybe I'm too old school (or too Yamaha oriented) to join the Shigeru fan club. 🤔
@@alextryan You have to understand that I am satisfied with my Yamaha N1x. It is that in this video I preferred the sound of the Kawai. It's a question of taste. these are 2 excellents pianos.
we didn't record the through the speakers because it would be our microphone which determined the sound. This way gives a more clear sound the the instruments and takes the microphone and the room out of the equation :)
yes many buy piano to play through speakers, and though limited by the recording mic, you can make a comparison between the output of 2 pianos. there are only about 1-2 videos on youtube that use mics. go check them out - better representation.
I prefer the Yamaha. Especially the lower octaves. The Kawai sounds muddy/boomy and unnatural in the bottom octaves. The Yamaha sounds much more natural there. I also prefer the presence of the midrange on the Yamaha. It sounds like it is better for jazz and pop than Kawai but can also deliver on classical music too. I don't do much tinkling in the upper octaves so don't care much about that area.
Does the NV hammers hitting still feel real at low volume ? Ive tried a hybrid Casio & the action is nice at medium or high volume but at low volume feels fake / doesn’t match! “The hammers is too hard or have too much swing”
Both are very good, think the Yamaha n1x has better bass. I would buy either and I own the original N1, they are just awesome instruments and would be decision on price
The Yamaha Avangrand has a very nice action, the Kawai Novus10 has a nice sound but the action, even if it's a real hybrid is quite unsubstantial, too lighter than acoustic grand pianos, and the touch is not very firm. In this comparison only Yamaha can win
I'd be very hard pressed to say which I prefer. They both sound very nice. I think the bass on the Kawai might sound a bit richer and nicer. But the treble sounds a bit more parlor piano compared to the Yamaha.
Kawai definitely sounds a step closer to a real piano. Regardless, people can experience an even better tone by using a good VST like VSL Steinway D or Garritan CFX.
It's hard to say what sounds more like a real piano because it's a very subjective thing whether or not you like the sound. But the Kawai really does sound good 🎵🎵
There are always going to be VSTs like pianoteq that you can tweak knobs to your heart’s content. The draw of this is that you can just sit down and play something beautiful without having to boot up a bunch of software and gears with wires.
@@TheRyanKirk exactly. I've used pianoteq extensively in the past. It's great and it gets even better as they update it but it's definitely an additional step when setting up, not to mention you have to have a proper set up with computer/laptop laying around and after a while it does get tiresome and makes you wish you just had a piano that powers on with a fantastic sound and feel right off the bat.
CA and clp are ugly looking,706 is my choice, just right size, and the fall board is unique conceals the control panel same sound like 708 after I added a 10" Polk WOOFER !!!! 👍👍👍👍👍
The NV10 sounds completely different (much MUCH better actually) in the Bonners RU-vid comparison video of these same two instruments. I wonder why that is?
I enjoyed the Kawai more in the Bonners video too, but I usually pick Yamaha over Kawai sounds, so maybe this video is more typically representative of how they are. Yamaha wins (again) for me here. The Kawai left me cold.
@@Zoco101 in a shop were the nv5 & 10s and also the nu1x and n1x. So I compared the nv5s with the nu1x and the n1x with the nv10s. Guess what. Whereas in the grand sector won Kawai with the nv10s over the n1x, in the upright sector Yamaha did win with their nu1x over the nv5s. So within my subjectivity the brands did score different.
@@GableVision That's interesting. I didn't much like the NU-1 when I tried it, whereas I liked the N-1 quite well. There is an obvious price difference of course. And now they've moved on to the X models, I realise. But while the N-1X (expensive as it is) is still much less expensive than the Novus NV10S, the NU-1X and Novus NV5S have more similar prices. This might explain your preferences. The NV10S would be a huge upgrade from the NV5S, and so it should be really hard to beat. I don't care about the soundboard in the NV5S, the end result is what matters. But I'm happy playing portable digital pianos in the sub 2000 dollar range. If I wanted a home piano, I'd probably buy one for under 2500 dollars. Even though I'm an ambitious pianist, my styles of jazz are not so very demanding on a piano, and I'd have trouble justifying an immense expenditure. Despite recent devastating setbacks for musicians, I still hope to make money from my music, rather than blow it all on instruments and equipment.
@@Zoco101 I went to the shop for one of €1000 (ydp164). I did like the clp725 too (in your country maybe called ydp184) for €1600 ($=0,9€). But then I started to imagine the after buy feeling. It would feel as a compromise in the way that the device does facilitate me; except it does not inspire me. Then €1000/1600 is not much, but I don’t get what I want, so it is €1000/1600 too much. The NU1X on the other had does inspire me, that’s what I want, so the pain of paying €3000 over my budget would in time diminish. Then I made the comparison with the NV5S, and the N1X and the NV10S.
You are hearing digital sampling which can be tweaked, more important is the touch of the keyboard, I believe Yamaha uses real wood keys and a hammer action.
That’s a joke right? Most play in Steinways, Faziolis or Shigeru Kawais, while some actually play Yamahas, it’s mainly for jazz playing, but rarely classical music as Yamaha’s character is too bright but clear.
@@IvanEDaza It is not a joke. Because many teachers and students cannot have a Steinway, Bösendorfer, Fazioli or Shigeru Kawai at home. They are very expensives pianos. Most Conservatories have it for study and practice. There are only in Concert Halls.
@@mundogio9177 you said it before, not because they prefer, but because they are cheaper and more affordable, also for practicing use, but for actual classical music concerts I have rarely seen someone actually use a Yamaha, it’s either Steinway, Bösendorfer, or sometimes Shigeru Kawai and Fazioli pianos. And...no, actually unless you play contemporary music only, most classical musicians will prefer a more balanced sound that can be used to play from the most delicate passages, to the most powerful and roaring ones. I also had Yamaha and Steinway grands on the university where I studied, while Yamaha one was used on a study/warm up room before concerts because sounded bright and rather too mid-enhanced, the Steinway was the one that sounded like a concert piano with a powerful bass and bright when it needed to be. As I said before, you can’t say people prefer Yamaha because it’s “the best”, it’s mainly because Yamaha grands, specially digital/hybrid ones are the most common and available on the market and have the most easy to find replacement pieces, while other brands like Kawai are harder to find on music stores, and sometimes replacements are a headache to find. Its all just marketing and constant placement on the musical industry what makes brands well known, but not because of that it automatically translates to “superior”.
@@IvanEDaza Except for literally one of the biggest piano competitions in the world, the Chopin Competition, where they use either a Steinway D or a Yamaha CFX.
