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Although I have baked bread for more than 60 years, it was always the traditional American straight dough method. More recently I have been learning about and making ferments. Vegetables, grains, and beverages (like kefir). Your video showed up because of this. I frequently ferment flours and grains a lot longer than you do (24 to 72 hours). The age of the ferment has everything to do with flavor and baking qualities. I often ferment different elements of my bread for different lengths of time and combine them into a dough. I love fermenting flours, grains, vegetables, and beverages because it contributes substantially to the nutrition (in lacto-fermentation, the most common kind), the bacteria that develops create their own vitamins, especially the B spectrum, that then benefits the eater. Fermenting foods breaks them down to a degree that they become more digestible which helps a number of people with wheat sensitivities. Alas, it does not solve everyone's problems though. It gives significant extra dimension to the flavor, and fermented grains cook faster too. So what's not to love? Well the answer might be that they take time, but it is hands-off time that can be spent doing other things. Look for Sandor Katz's books if you want to learn more, or check his RU-vid videos. It's a gas (as they used to say). To be specific, carbon dioxide. (I am Virginia, not Jim) This video gives a wonderful comparison of traditional pre-fermenting techniques. Thank you so much for going to all the trouble to get them ready for their close-ups all at the same time.
Thank you so much for the insight, Virginia. Some good information right there :) I actually benefit quite a lot form fermented flour as I am gluten intolerant. Eating quick fermented yeast breads can give me a rash on my skin. But a slow proofed sourdough bread is totally safe for me to eat. Funny enough I have his book as I was quite into fermenting vegetables a while back. Still use the principles I learned form it today. Thanks for stopping by. Charlie.
How did my whole family,all Master Bakers bake bread from 1854 to 1969 not mention Hydration!!!….I am still baking bread at 90 years old…..A very interesting video.
I've tried poolish 100% hydration and biga at 65%. I found the flavour very similar but the biga was much easier for me to incorporate into the rest of my dough. I would try a sponge for enriched doughs but I am a beginner so trying to make a basic loaf consistently first. I want to get this right because I enjoy eating bread but struggle to digest a lot of store-bought bread. Prefermenting a decent chunk and doing the final proof in the fridge overnight helps me a lot.
Don't be afraid of giving enriched doughs a try! When I was just starting (and having little success with any kind of bread) one day I tried making doughnuts with a highly enriched butter dough. Amazing results and it actually gave me my confidence back to start back at the beginning with bread!
Thank you, this was a quick and easy to understand explanation when a lot of other recipes and creators either don't explain or go into extreme detail that for me at least is hard to absorb for application. Your videos have been super helpful and made bread making much less overwhelming. Thank you for being willing to share :)
There are so many pizza dough and bread dough recipes that there is no one answer to that. But if you would like to see some examples of mine, then type 'chainbaker pizza' in the youtube search bar and it will come up with all my pizza recipes of which there are quite a few 😉
I can't say that I have a preference. But I think biga works best in most cases because it contains less water and ferments more slowly and is more predictable. Plus if using the autolyse method for the main dough it does not rob too much water out of it. Then again poolish is great because of the more vigorous fermentation and more acidity (if that is desired). Each method has its place and not one one is better than another. It's just about using it in the right way 😉
Magnificent! I am a sour dough newbie and working on my starter or I guess preferment in sorts. I had not even heard of preferment. Thank you so much. You have me as a new subscriber.
Super Channel! As a french chef and pizzamaker, I used to work during my free time at my baker friend's lab so we could increase our skills in bakery and patisserie, but we both moved on... And now, RU-vid just gave me the occasion to get back into it! Your videos are the real content. Well executed, clear information, one can see you are for real. You are the Mentor I missed. Thank you so much! I hope you'll get the retribution you deserve for being that cool.
This is such an excellent video Charlie, I have watched it several times. Another preferment I use is a “TANGZHONG” which is nothing more than a fairly stiff roux. The liquid can be water only or a water & milk combo. The liquid and flour are taken from the recipe’s basic ingredients, the same as the preferments you mentioned. A suggestion I would make to people who may not have used a tangzhong before is keep stirring the roux (flour and liquid) until it thickens BUT DON’T COOK THE ROUX FOR TOO LONG or else too much is lost in evaporation. The roux is cooked when the wooden spoon, or whatever you use to stir the roux, leaves a track in the thickened roux. Remove the saucepan immediately from the heat and transfer the cooked roux to a small bowl and cover with plastic wrap put directly on the roux (so a skin doesn’t develop as it cools). When the covered roux has reached room temperature, put the covered roux in the fridge overnight. The next morning, the cold roux looks like a piece of rubber, simply cut it into 1/2 inch pieces and toss all at once into the flour you are using for your bread recipe. I am sure Charlie can explain the making and use of tangzhong better than I. This note is simply meant to add to Charlie’s list, it may be helpful if someone has never heard of or used a tangzhong before. Kind regards Donna (from Australia)
Hey Donna, thanks for the input! :) I made a Japanese milk bread video ages ago where I used a tangzhong. But now you reminded me and I want to make another one.. perhaps a chocolate flavoured one?! 🤔🤤 Could be interesting.
These videos are gold. I exaggerated my bread knowledge trying to get a job, and to my surprise, ACTUALLY got in. Now I'm flailing a bit trying not to make a total ass of myself, so these are incredibly helpful.
I've only ever used a biga. I learned how to make one after visiting a bakery in the Italian North end of Boston. I dare say that I now make the best Italian bread in Pitt County North Carolina. Sad to say a lot of folks around here don't know what a good Italian bread is like.
Really interesting presentation, I have only used Poolish in the past for things like pizza base. I keep it in the fridge for a few days which makes it ferment very slowly but generates loads of flavour.
Making dough is sooo much more complicated AND that make its MORE wonderful. As an artist, of 50 years, I'm still learning so many techniques, brushes, paints, pastels... Baking is so much like painting and making art. 🍞🥖🖌🎨 SUBBED!
I've been following your channel for 5 months and the information you're putting out is incredible! Wondering if you could do a video in the future where you bake the same simple bread recipe using all 4 of the preferements and compare the results? Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much! That is a great idea! I have added it to my endless future projects list :D I'll definitely get to it. What I can say now is that there is definitely not one that is better than another. They all have their own best uses and benefits and I have recipes using all of them in the Bread With Preferment playlist. Cheers.
Thank you! Thank you thank you! All the information I needed on pre-ferments in one place, clearly and concisely explained, with visual demonstrations -- and more information I didn't think I needed but did!
I’ve been looking several months for all of this information in 1 video. FINALLY I found it here!! I’ve been going between videos to get tid bits of all the information. You have made it clear and concise. Thank you.
This video just changed my whole life. I've been making sourdough for a couple of months. My entire understanding of starter for bread is a newborn baby in a galaxy of possibilities...
Right the way he explains it it's perfect, I can actually understand the basic now and why they are what they are without overloading my brain. This man is a great teacher
Excellent instruction and so visually appealing the way you place your ingredient containers. The slow motion action is perfect. You are a wonderful teacher.
I've been following you since you started this channel and I learn something every time but I must say this is one of my favorites. Your ability to explain these concepts is unparalleled.
Wow thank you so much! Yeah I though this may be quite a useful video for bakers out there. There is another video coming next week on this topic too. Thank you for your support and for following along. Happy baking! 😊
I’ve been making bread for two years (in other words, the pandemic) tonight I have my first preferment out in the kitchen and I’m excited to try it tomorrow for a big rustic loaf. Your examples and explanations were excellent so I’ll go into it tomorrow with a better grasp of what I’m shooting for. Thanks!
Excellent video and explanation. I’ve been baking for over 35 years and I make all kinds of bread. I’ve not tried biga or pate fermente. I’ll have to give those a try. I agree, once you understand baker’s math and hydration levels, it open up a new world on bread. Thanks for sharing!
Im a noob but i will NEvER EvER buy bread again... thanks to people like you. I learned how to make a dough happy... AND now, i will improve my skills, using preferments. Many thanks for your priceless generousity. Stop war, make bread, grow some plants, raise a cute chicken... you will save on grocery bills, on gas and save planet earth ...
I love these videos, I feel like I'm getting free culinary school! One of my favorite cookbooks has a recipe for waffles that involves proofing the batter overnight. It has the milk already added (the eggs are added after the proof), so in the end it can sit for well over 12 hours. It doesn't look as dead as this sponge, and is active. The flavor is wonderful and as I've had it a dozen times without ill effect, I suspect it's safe.
this is truly amazing.... I am a beginner home baker and my brain is processing all this info, I am truly grateful that I've found your channel! everything looks simple now and so fascinating, it's probably the way you put so much passion in your creations that I can literally feel it through my screen... jajajaj saludos from México
I normally watch and enjoy your comprehensive videos without writing but I want you to know that your videos are fantastic! They are very informative and you don’t get sidetracked with useless information. I love using poolish in my breads. Most of my recipes don’t call for a preferment but as you said in this video, the poolish contributes to the elasticity and flavour of the dough. I take 20% of the bread recipe’s flour and match that in equal part of water. A few times at the beginning of using poolish, I forgot that I had already used 20% of the flour & I found it helpful to write a note to myself changing the main dough weight. What I tend to do now is weigh the total flour, and out of that bowl I weigh my poolish flour. I’m looking forward to your next video! Kind regards Donna from Australia
Thank you so much Donna 🙏 that is a great way to make sure not to forget. For me it's slightly different as I always weigh out everything in my bowls for the video so there is no chance to miss it. But then I do have lots more washing up to do after 😄
Great! I've been working on producing my version of a perfect NY style bagel all pandemic, with and without preferment. This lesson clarified poolish vs biga, and gave me ideas on things to try moving forward. Thanks.
Andy, if you nail that bagel recipe, please share! My Philly-born tastebuds miss incredible bagels. I finally just nailed my go-to baguette recipe, thanks to a poolish and Vincenzo's Plate recipe and method.
Very descriptive, nice category separation and easy to follow examples. Now I understand, I have been over proofing my poolish at 24 hours. Thank you. :)
Finally, the (mathematical) basics became clear to me! Vito Iacopelli made me curious about Poolish for pizza dough, but I did never get the math/logic behind it. With your Video, and some info from the comments, I do have a basic calculation: *Take 20% of the total flour for the dough you're planning on making. These 20% flour will be matched 1:1 with water (in weight), and 0,1% (active dry?) yeast is added.* The flour and water in the Poolish will be deducted from the total flour/water required by the dough recipe. *Question:* I wonder, id a Poolish still seems to make sense, if my (Pizza)-Dough usually ferments for 3-6 days in the fridge? Will I gain anything, or is the making of the Poolish most likely just beneficial, if the final dough is supposed to be a "quick" one?
You can tell this dude's kneaded a few million loaves in his day. Great vid. Simplifies the dough-making process with some educational elements. Nice job.
Very informative! The Sponge is the only one I’ve used before. It was interesting to learn about the other preferments. I especially liked that you showed what happens if the ferment too long! Thank you!!
Excellent information! I routinely make an Italian bread with biga. I never knew the uses for the other options. Can’t wait to try some different recipes.
I am so glad I found your channel!! Thank you so much!! I have been baking the Norwegian farm bread my mom taught me when I was 5 well over 50years ago. But just started to look for other recipes. Thank you for explaining things so carefully. I look forward to trying some of these starters to see what works best for me. Now that I can no longer knead 5Lbs + at a time. This gives me hope that I can make a fresh loaf every other day or so. Thank you!!
Great video! I’ve been using a poolish for my ciabatta recipe, but I’m intrigued to give the biga method a try - pre-fermenting all the flour rather than the roughly 35% that I pre-ferment in the poolish sounds like it’ll be delicious.
From Vito Iacopelli on YT, the Pizza Master...I learned to do a double ferment with poolish. It's what you described for the Biga.... It's a 72hr double fermentation and it's always amazing! This video is very educational, thank you!
Thanks Chain. You clarify many of the murky questions I had about preferments. By the way, I made Panini rolls with tangzhong method and kaiser rolls with yudane method and they came high and soft as described. Couldn't tell if they stayed fresh long... they were gone that day. Love the videos.
When you use unbleached white flour the best to add is the sponge with 100% yeast added modify. It give the bread a very good flavor in a 45 minute ferment, then shape and rise 45 minutes again, then bake at 425 degrees faren. This recipe is developed through trial and error, but works good. The other is to use high hydration polish to make chabadah bread. Make in a warm place. You make the polish in only one hour because the rise and fold will create the flavor, then add it to very sticky dough the place in a container to fold twice 30 minutes apart.after last rise which is the second one place it on a well floured counter and cut to size and place on cooking tray to rise for 30 minutes. bake at 425 degrees faren until golden brown.
Very first time i hear about differents types of fermentation …i read many comments and it sounds you guys are all professional …it is difficult to understand for an amateur baker like i am …today i learned very interesting things make me grow …hhhh
This video is immensely informative! I've wanted to use pre-ferments, but for some reason I struggle to maintain a sour dough starter. Having learned of pâte fermentée, my interest is renewed and I'm willing to give it a try! Also, the sponge looks delicious on its own, so I definitely want to try that cinnamon rolls recipe you mentioned.
My favorite is easily the pâte fermentée. It's not extra work like the other ones and has arguably the best result. In the video he mentioned not using eggs and milk in the pâte fermentée. The trick is to use powdered egg yolks (or powdered eggs) and powdered milk. I use powdered heavy whipping cream. These last for 6-24 months at room temperature and the pâte fermentée is kept in the fridge for a few days. Even if parts get recycled endlessly the yeast will eat the eggs and milk over time, so food safety issues go away. This way you can use a pâte fermentée for any kind of bread. I make brioche with it.
Thank you so much for that really informative video! I have been making sourdough since March last year. I think I’m not a “natural” at baking bread but have discovered that by using a poolish my sourdough is more likely to be successful shape and a really good tasty loaf of bread even if it’s not a pure sourdough.!
Thank you 🙏 yeah it's the next best thing and the best part is that there's no upkeep ;) I have been leaning more towards biga lately as it is more predictable. But perhaps coming into winter as the weather gets cooler I'll switch back to poolish.
I have used a sponge in bread making for many years, and have received many compliments for it I have also used pate fermente but I prefer the sponge for it's simplicity. Preferments also make the dough a little easier to knead, but their real contribution to the bread is flavour.
I had no idea that I needed to know all this, but I actually found every piece of information in this video extremely useful, and it has helped me better understand several things about bread making in general. I love using a sponge for yeasted breads. I feel like I get much better performance out of the yeast if I activate it by making a sponge rather than activate it by putting it in warm sugar water as so many recipes suggest. If you’ve never used a preferment of any kind, I would highly suggest starting out by trying a sponge for your favorite yeasted bread recipe.
just tried a recipe with a preferment for the first time. It was a Poolish and it made the best bread I have ever had. Can't wait to learn more and add on more tools
Not going to lie. I saw the thumbnail after scrolling through a bunch of cooking videos and immediately thought, "Man my mans left his milk out so long it became yogurt."
Thank you for this video. The only preferment i have used is the Biga. For the recipe I used, the Biga was most of the dough - 2/3. It was ready to use in 14 hours, in my cold Winter kitchen. My bread came out really nice using the Biga. I will definitely use it again.
Awesome vid! I’ve used polish in many kinds of artisan bread, and they always turn out so much nicer. One thing I would like to know is how these different kind of preferments affect the final bread? What kinds of bread are they ideal for?
I mention a couple different breads for each preferment in the written article. But you can certainly use most preferments interchangeably. The flavour they add will be determined by how long they have been fermented for. A shorter proof will equal a sweeter dough. A longer will be more acidic.
I have made Poolish in the past but I had no idea what I was doing. Now this video is a game changer. I did my Poolish last night at 22C and left it for 12 hours and it was exactly like your video. Reading a preferment on a book is not the same as how you explain it. I love it. It rose almost 3 times in size and then started to fall down as you say. Made pizza balls and all went perfectly smooth. I am happy I have the same temp as you 22 C and my water was at 10C and final dough 23C. Oh i forgot I mixed it by hand :) I made my pizza balls and into the fridge they went. I will let you know how they fermented after 36 hours, I am using 00 caputo red flour that should take this. I did it at 63% hydration. When I perfect this then I will go for higher hydration.. What I did notice is that when you put pizza in a 900F oven if there is to much hydration it burns so I think the Italians know something I don't LOL. Best to follow their way and I think high hydration with high protein should be left for the oven. My journey for pizza making started last year with COVID. Ever since then I have been struggling. Now that I found your channel its a complete game changer. I hope you reach a million viewers. I am telling all my pizza buddies to check you out because at least the info you give is legit unlike all the pizza guys lying through their teeth or just misleading with unorthodox bakers percentage and methods. Thanks a million my friend!! I will let you know how the pizza worked out. :)
I did my dough this morning at 7am final dough 23C i used .5% yeast because I am stubborn. LOL 5 hours have passed. I have a bit of dough in a small narrow container with an elastic of original height of the dough to show when the dough has doubled. So far nothing has happened. I am going for a 36 hour fermentation. I left the dough 30 minutes room temp 22C before I made the balls and in the fridge. You think I am storing the balls again? or will they rise? if this doesn't work I will double the yeast next time around. Can I still save the balls if there is not enough yeast?
Mine is kind of halfway between a Polish and a Biga. I begin with 100 grams of 50/50 starter and add 175 grams flour and 125 grams water as well as 1/4 tsp dry yeast. That puts it at 78% hydration. Then anywhere from 8 hours to a day later (Whenever I feel like making my bread) I add flour & water to whichever hydration I desire.
I don’t blame you for not looking forward to washing the jars! 😄 It is a pain. This is why I put my jars in the sink of water, and come back when most of it soaked off! Works well! I’ll be making a poolish soon. 🤞🏻
Your videos are so educational! I'm a baby baker and I've been having trouble making bread that has the desired quality I'm looking for. You were the only channel that discussed the importance of temperature. Only when I followed your ciabatta video did I get the results I wanted. Thank youuuu! P.S. your video's music is fun, too!
I really appreciate this wonderful demonstration and presentation Makes me want to become a bread maker baker. What a great media for an artisan. I wish I could go make a mess in the kitchen.
Interesting, and nicely filmed. One quibble: "Preferment" is a word that means "advancement or promotion in dignity, office, or station." In this case, you might want to add a hyphen to prevent confusion, so "pre-ferment," or choose/coin a different word.
This was a great video. I'm here in the Bay area so of course, I'm a big Chad Robertson fan. His book however does not go deeply into the pre-ferments other than to make them. This really helped me understand better why. Thanks
I just found your channel Charlie. Thank you for all the information,, it is all so clear..concise, useful, and thorough but not overly informative where I feel overwhelmed in the world of dough. ANYWAY, I saw this video and the excitement I felt I cannot explain. THANK YOU!
I make ciabatta every year for Thanksgiving but when I've tried to add a similar poolish to a rustic country loaf, I ended up with a doorstop. Turns out I should have used a biga and that the timing matters a great deal!! Mine had collapsed and gone liquidy in a warm kitchen and so it ruined the dough. Now I know that to look for with a biga!! Thank you.
In 1993, Food and Wine magazine printed a recipe for Rosemary Olive Oil Bread. The recipe called for a "sponge". I've made this recipe for years, not knowing the difference between a polish, a biga, a sponge and a pate fermented, UNTIL I watched your video. Thanks for this very informative video. The sponge they made did not include milk. And it was presented in cups and tsps. instead of by weight. I've learned that measuring by weight is a lot more accurate and appreciate you using them. However, I am now unclear as to which one of these I should use when making the recipe next time. One thing I always wanted was for this loaf to be a high riser and it never is. In fact, the recipe says that when you place it on the stone it will be low and flat. I might try using a banneton to proof it next time. I'd like to send you the recipe for you to work with it and see what you think. thanks again for the video.😁
I have some "Carl's Sourdough starter", from sourdough starter that traveled to Oregon with Carl in a covered wagon in the 1800s. I also have some San Francisco starter that supposedly is made with water and flour from SF to get that unique taste. I can't tell the difference. I am a diabetic so I have to treat myself to bread that is special, and I appreciate all ur varieties to chose from.
Thank you for the video. You have omitted one important preferment that is known as Sourdough Starter. Sourdough is in a category of its own, distinct from from the quick rising, modern yeast. It yields a sour tasting bread, which many bread enthusiasts like.
I've used a biga and poolish method for bread. If I'm busy and want to use my Zoji, I'll mix up the ferment in the bottom of the pan and pile the rest of the ingredients on top of the mixed ferment. I can set the timer to allow the fermentation to take place before the Zoji incorporates all of the ingredients, usually overnight. Not a work of bread art but it adds the flavor that might otherwise be missing...
Wow thanks so much! I'm 57 and just started bread making, this is much needed and appreciated information. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your knowledge. This video was put together very nicely. I am subscribing thank you again.
Thank you so much and welcome to the channel. That is awesome! Never too late to learn something new. The 'Principles of Baking' playlist on my channel should provide plenty of information for you. Cheers!
I've used Poolish in pizza dough many times. The Pat Fermente seems like a SourDough starter but with regular yeast. I'll give these a try as the opportunities arise.
This is hands down the best video because it inclused the process of what you do after the baking and ho w you keep your preferment alive and going. Could you do another for 100% Rye doughs and rye ferments?
Hi Charlie, just another one made only from water and flour (we call it kvas in Czech Republic = in English simply ferment) I take 30g of whole grain rye flour and 40g water and add the same a day later. Then I remove half of the mass and add flour and water again. I repeat the last until the "kvas" develops strong enough (this takes 5 to 7 days on the kitchen link). Then I put it into the fridge and feed it every fourth day as during development. To bake I add again flour and water without removing a half put one half in the fridge for next time and use the other half for baking. Well, during development the kvas MUST NOT be covered. The fermenting bacteria come from the environment. During storage the cap should be perforated. This can be made from wheat too of course or even from buckwheat to have a gluten free version. We need a different amount of water of course. My experience for hydration: Every flour acts different and needs a different amount of water for the same consistence. This holds even for flour of the same type coming from a different mill. Tank you much for the insight how this is made elsewhere, for different flavours of dough and for different purpose :) I'll try it out for sure.
Thank you for the tips! :) What you describe is what I call a sourdough starter. I have a whole playlist on the topic on my channel. I kept it separate because the preferments in this video all use commercial yeast while the sourdough starter is inhabited by wild yeast, like you described. Interesting to hear about buckwheat flour. I must try it out sometime. Thank you so much :)
Oh my glob! This channel is the answer for all my questions! Ive been wanting to learn how to make breads and understand preferments. Instantly subscribed. Your channel deserves more recognition!
Thank you so much, this information is so important and helpful! Question: -What makes bread more digestible? -What role does high protein in flour, play in making bread and why is it important? Please and thank you, in advance! It’s difficult to find high protein flour in some areas of the world.
The longer it ferments the more digestible it will be. Cold bulk fermentation is one of the better options. Here's a video - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-x-8UoEgtt48.html High protein flour will have stronger gluten which will help with making taller loaves with more open crumb. Here's a video about protein - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-al--1T_9lgM.html
Just found this channel, and I’m so excited. Thank you for explaining basics and for the demonstrations. It’s just what I needed for beginning my journey into baking breads, which has been a little intimidating and a bit disappointing in the past.
In my area it is common to use only the preferment with no extra dry yeast, a portion is saved similar to the pâte fermentée but we save it from the preferment only, not from the complete dough or batter. We call it a sponge with water or milk, and 130% hydration is common because it uses all of the liquid. Fermented 8 hours so the yeast have time to multiply. A tradition because this area was remote so purchase of yeast was difficult, it is also cool most of the year allowing modest fermentation.
@ChainBaker - thank you for posting. Such a very interesting video. I have been making bread for quite some time but not much since the end of lockdown, like other people I suppose (who has the time now?!!). I only realised recently that one of my favourite breads, ciabatta, should be made using a biga. And now I know how to make one! I love the detail in your videos, especially when you mention temperature of the dough, as well as the surroundings (we live in a 1920s-built cottage on the north coast of Northern Ireland, so it’s not as warm as other homes). Cheers. 😀👍☘️
I’m so glad I tripped across this video! I’ve just begun to try making breads with a poolish. This is exactly what I needed to learn where and how to use preferments. Now I really want to try them. I’d say there are caramel rolls in my future which will definitely please my husband.
And here I was thinking I was cheating, when in reality I convirted my sourdough bread into a biga bread when I didn't have the time to start up a sourdough starter. Thanks for this video, it inspires me to do more experimentation with my (gluten free) breads
