Yes, DLSS 3 works on 20 and 30 series GPUs. But what does that even mean? 

This man here absolutely gets it.

was about to comment this very thing. right on the head! edit: and NVIDIA had no choice but to enable RR for older GPUs because they knew if not someone would reverse engineer it

True, but anybody buying a 40 series card for frame generation is an idiot and it seems like it’s not a big enough feature for people to actually want to buy the cards

I don't think so. People are just getting more and more retarded. We have multiple examples where many services are bundled as one under one name and people don't complain that naming is unclear. It is only youtubers fault to instill in viewers this false perception of what DLSS is. That it is one function and not a bundle of functions. Like none of NVidia materials suggest that DLSS3 runs only on 40 series. All their materials speak about FG that works only on 40 series.

Of course, they want people to buy their new stuff, every company does. But you do not want to punish existing customers at the same time Daniel hit it on the head. The new hardware was meant to support this feature, but older hardware was not. To make it work on older cards might mean not taking advantage of hardware designed partially around frame generation.

Most of the Nvidia card owners are not tech savvy users, they would go to buy a card and have no idea what to actually ask, they wouldn't know if they need a card with DLRR, DLAA, or maybe if a box only says DLSS, they wouldn't buy it because there's no DLFG on it, and so on. They need to brand it in easy to remember names, and DLSS3 was the choice (it wasn't a bad choice if you aim for casual gamers), the problem is that important information falls through the cracks, and then everybody suffers from it.

Yeah people would love more acronyms you’re right

*DLSS = Deep learning Super Sampling

In the very least separate DLFG and dlss so it's more clear what features are locked to 40 series and not

@@lohn2559 I think having more acronyms would’ve been better than having people confused about Frame generation and thought that it is what Nvidia touted as “DLSS3”, when it actually is not. At the very least, those acronyms can be easily associated, compatibility wise, with GPU generations, what is compatible with what and what not.

thank u this make sense, so basically u get better version of new stuff but if u want to fully utilize and jump up fps up 40-50 u need new hardware which makes sense, u need better engine for better performance but old engine could still benifit from it but obviously not as much as new ones Great

100% If they want to keep the same branding for the suite of features, the "DL" prefix should be plenty. DLSS, DLFF, DLRR...

@@moldyshishkabob DILF

@@moldyshishkabob Considering they've already been willing to drop the SS and use the DL with DLAA, I think this would be acceptable. But it should be DLFG. Deep Learning Frame Generation. "Fast Frames" sounds kinda stupid when it's standing alongside a bunch of other DL algorithms that have pretty technical names. Only real problem with this is that it'll break the single "DLSS on/off" into like 5 separate toggles but w/e

@@Tosslehoffe That's very fair, I think DLFG sounds good.

DLFF = DL Fake Frames

They already decoupled DLAA from DLSS in terms of branding. I see no reason why we couldn't get a DLSS, DLAA, DLFG, and DLRR toggle.

Even if it’s not a good long, it’s still worth it in the long run to not muddy things up. Unless it’s required to used DLSS, Frame generation needs its own name.

​@@Tosslehoffe I actually think this is a good and much clearer way.

Could've easily just said DLSS-R that's available to all, and thats settled. Instead they drew a grey line between 3 and .5. It is deliberate marketing.

But why rebrand it if it fools people into thinking they _need_ 40 series to continue to get updated features? They aren't concerned with supporting old cards nearly as much as selling new ones.

..but its not confusing lol

If it was intentionally misleading, wouldn't it make more sense leading people into buying a 40 series card because they think they need one to use anything above DLSS 2.x?

with slower cards, such as 20 or 30 series there will be a lot more of graphical glitches because of slow rendering of those generated frames and if consumers will see that mess - it will hurt technology, and sells of 40 gen, so, nvidia obviously removed it from previous gen cards.

​@@PITERPENN yeahright, 4060 is so fast compared to 3080 isn't it?

Well, it's bad business to bring out technology that can make old cards better. Like imagine if DLSS keeps on getting better and better and you'd be able to use your 3080 for games in 10 years and still get 60 fps at like 1440p lol

Where you get this info?

@@kosmosyche taking a simple time in your life to actually look at the diagram of Ada lovelace doesn't hurt your brain to show the difference between Ada lovelace and Ampere and previous gens

The best one!

It literally states, "frame generation 40 series gpus". If that is confusing you're just really dumb

It is wrong If DLSS3=FG then how it is applicable to 20, 30 series???

Ok but how are you going to explain that people without rtx 4000 cards will be running DLSS 2 and DLSS 3.5 but not DLSS 3

I believe he's a teacher, so that makes sense 😅

@@user-qu7ug7ir5u This is true, but I've had some teachers that did not explain things well. But yes him being a Teacher definitely helps haha

@@user-qu7ug7ir5u hes a math teacher yes :D

ok

@@user-qu7ug7ir5uyup, a maths teacher, i think he works in a elementary school but i'm not sure

Exactly maybe the actual architecture of the chip makes it less efficient vs the 4000 series but it’s definitely not impossible…that said who would upgrade to a 1600$ card if their 3090ti could do the same and get 60+ fps on the newest games? That’s why they’re freaking out over AMDs announcement who can do it without AI cores 😂😂😂 Nvidia=🤡💩🤡

Yeah and you can run ray tracing on software. The point is that it would not be fast enough to have a benefit.

Dedicated hardware will always run better, more efficient and will end with better results than running on all purpose hardware. AMD is doing the latter simply because they have no choice, - That is the difference.

Yeah but it does free up CUDA cores to do whatever while the Tensor cores take it to do the last steps before it leaves the GPU to go to the video out chip. AMD has the entire process on GPU cores as they don't have 2 types of incompatible cores on their GPUs.

Obviously there is nothing specific to graphics either which means you should go ahead and run everything on your CPU right?

There are hacks for DLSS3 on rtx30 gpus that prove what you're saying isn't true.

Yes, that's how computer architectures work. New ones have capabilities that older ones don't. The 3090 also doesn't have AV1 capability, yet it still has a really good media encoder.

@@Wobbothe3rdI haven't seen it. I haven't looked for it though so Ill have to take your word for it.

@@ryanspencer6778 The die is 160mm for the 4060. The die for the 3090 is over 600mm. You understand the raw numbers here. Even with a newer node, and all the number fudging in the world, the 4060 doesn't have more of anything that the 3090. Maybe that's why the performance of the 4060 is so terrible, they wasted most of the die on flow accelerators. I don't believe it though. 82 RT cores vs 24. Every single metric just makes the 4060 look pathetic in comparison. Which it is. Why would it magically have an tonne extra of one magical component? Think about it. It doesn't make sense.

It really proves that nvidia was only locked out 20/30 series out of frame generation, because otherwise theese cards will be just fine with additional speed boost for free, and play all games with nice speed (even with 20 series will be useable with new titles ray tracing in HD) - so the players will not buy the 40 series. But i am courious what will happen after fsr3. I hope after that this they have no reason to lock this feature anymore and make available for all cards. (reminds me when they finally made raytracing avaliable for non RTX cards too)

Because fsr sucks so bad

I would guess from 2 to 3 is major image quality improvements and 3 to 3.5 is minor ones.

​​@@halcyonacoustic7366nah, not really, the biggest difference was moving from 1.0 to v2, the difference between 2 and 3 is minor, but I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes with the AI but on the surface they look pretty similar in terms of visual quality and performance, the biggest thing for DLSS 3 is that it has the frame gen feature which is clearly Nvidia's poster child for DLSS 3, explains why they've managed to confuse a lot of people getting them to think DLSS 3 on a whole only works with the RTX 40 series... meanwhile DLSS 3.5 only just adds a better de-noiser for Ray tracing

@@halcyonacoustic7366nope, DLSS2 is Super Sampling, aka image upscaler, DLSS3 is Frame Interpolation, nothing to do with image quality. Stop thinking 3 is an evolution of 2. 3 is the lastest v2 + FrameGen 3.5 is the lastest v2 + latest v3 + RR From my experience 2.5.4(Death Stranding Director's Cut version which fixed ghosting/trail) is actually even better(the SS part) than the 3.1.1(Spider-Man Resmater, it re-introduced the ghosting for some reason) version i tried, i don't know about later versions, i swapped the DLL versions from the original DS(2.3), DS Director's Cut(2.5) and Spider-Man(3.1), and the 2.5 version was the best. DLSS doesn't update 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 3.5, it's more like 1 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.2.1 -> 2 -> 2.1 -> 2.1.1 -> 2.1.2 -> 2.2 -> 2.3 -> 3 -> 3.1 -> 3.5, it's incremental until they rebrand when adding a new tech. In my naming example, the jump from DLSS DLL v2.3 to DLSS DLL v3, has nothing to do with Super Sampling, it's just adding FrameGen, the same with the jump from v3.1 to v3.5, they just added Ray Reconstruction, the section of the software that does Frame Gen and Super Sampling is the same as the version prior to it, the jumps that aren't incremental are about adding new tech, the incremental jumps are the ones making it look/run better.

DLSS 3 does mean frame gen. the only people who say it doesn't are pedantic freaks like you and daniel. nvidia themselves still refer to dlss super resolution as dlss 2.

>Fun Fact - FSR3 should work on RX580 and 1060. FSR3 works only as in upscaling on these, FSR FG only works staring from RDNA1 and Turing

@@unclexbox85 It's other way around, on rx580 upscaling+fg will work too slow, use just fg and it'll work.

​@@michahojwa8132The other commenter has it correct. Polaris isn't good enough at async compute (which is what AMDs frame gen relies on) performance. You'd likely end up with a performance regression due to the increased latency for each frame

@@2intheampm512 AMD says FG works with rx590. Most of difference from rx580 can be overclocked. So that's, why im sure it can work. Also, rx580 is comparable to ps4pro. Maybe the old guy gets the update

this is definitely the case

That you're not "cognitively challenged" doesn't mean the broad masses aren't... I've had to answer the same question as Daniel addresses here a whole lot of times in the comments of various videos.

@@andersjjensen it's the youtube comment section. What did you expect?

@@NeilMoore Well if you're aware of the phenomenon then why are you complaining about it?

I have rtx 3060ti and i dont see myself bying anything new for next couple of years . This card will play everything at atleast 60 fps , and i never cared for ultra settings and super high resolution im fine with 1920x1080 .

@@malyman316 Getting 60+~ fps with maximum settings (with RT toggled off if included) on 1080p is a guarantee on RTX 3060TI... Provided the game is not poorly optimized, of course.

Yes, nvidia explicitly said so. FSR is also getting its own DLAA equivalent called NAA (Native Anti Aliasing) as well.

Super sampling is the opposite of what you're describing. It's running crazy internal resolutions and then downscaling them to fit native.

They sold ~ 6.000.000 RTX 4000 video cards already bro...

DLSS framegen won't come to 20 and 30 mainly because the DLSS Frame Gen is based on the fact that optical flow accelerator, 20 and 30 do have OF but it's not fast enough to generate frames and if you try you will get even more latency than 40 series get, they might try to copy amds HYPR-X thing which enables FSR Framegen in any dx11/12 game and leave to 40 series only just like HYPR-X is only on RDNA 3

I like how everyone with an nvidia card is excited not because amd is making frame gen but because nvidia might unlock their own solution as a reaction honestly tho that's what I hope too

It's way too early to say this, we don't even know if FSR or the driver level FG from AMD even work well.

@@unclexbox85 Except someone hacked the driver and demonstrated that it does in fact, at the basic level, work on at least 30 series. It had wonky artefacts and the performance gain was only 80% of what 40 series sees. But don't worry. Nvidia will eat a bullet befor walking anything back. They have chosen not to enable features, that the silicon was perfectly capable of, on certain SKUs SO MANY times in the past and never ever budged. This is the reason why they locked the open source Linux driver out via some VBIOS crypto BS. They got pretty fed up with the open source folks just enabling everything the silicon could do.

DLAA is really just DLSS where the render frame size is the same as the display frame size. DLSS has always worked that way, it was just not recommended to be used outside the recommended source scale rez factors (1.5, 1.72, 2.0). AA is always a part of basic DLSS dataflow, scaling enabled or not.

@@normanblack4005 Exactly. DLAA is just TAA with hardware acceleration.

With all due respect, people who think of it like that are confusing themselves. Even if you run the latest version without frame generation or ray reconstruction enabled, you're still using DLSS 3.5, not v2. You're better off thinking of it in terms of features, as Daniel just showed, instead of in terms of version.

I have the same build. Just game at 1080p or 1440p with dlss.

@@maxcornejo20 dude I ended up selling my 3070 for 250. Bought a 4070 for 550. Paid 300 for dlss3 and 4 more gb vram lol

it's the same DLL. edit: wait, it isn't, does he have a game installed that has FrameGen but not DLSS? Games doesn't usually have 2 DLSS DLL versions, they're all packaged into one.

@@MaxIronsThird DLSS is nvngx_dlss.dll, frame generation is nvngx_dlssg.dll. Every game that supports DLSS uspcaling will have the first DLL, and every game that supports frame gen will have the second. I'm not surprised that Daniel got them confused when there's just a single letter difference in the names.

Ray reconstruction requires developer integration. Just like frame generation.

Nobody is basing their decision to buy a GPU based on frame generation. Rtx40 cards are selling well because they're the best overall.

@@Wobbothe3rd the only "good" card in the RTX 40 stack is the 4090 just because it's better than 30 series for a investment standpoint. 4080 is trash value, 4070ti is a cheap 3090, 4070 is a cheap 3080 and 4060s are a joke. But people is really into DLSS and frame generation with Nvidia's marketing, so they are selling well because of that and FOMO.

yeah actually it does mean EXACTLY THAT and daniel is dumb as fuck

Interesting question, I would suspect a yes. Maybe you can enable it with DLSS 3 frame gen as well 😂 I guess this is probably a task for the game developers at this point to enable settings in their menu which actually makes sense for the users, or based on how they develop their rendering pipeline. But this also raises the question of how you actually enable it on older titles.

No definitely not. These technologies conflict with each other for the swap chain.

When you game 1440p on a 4K tv at a distance you can hardly tell the difference. I lounge back on my lazy boy and experiment all the time between the resolutions and come to the same conclusion on 99% of games which is it doesn’t matter a lot. I do 1440p performance dlss and it looks amazing. I’m sitting back about 10ft though. If it was a monitor and I was resting my nose on the screen that might be a different story. For now my 3070 gets 60fps on cyberpunk with ultra RT so screw it haha

@@mikehatten5738 right might get the 5070 maybe even skip that lol

@@TheWancer it’s the rumors are true and it’s just a continuation of Ada Lovelace architecture than yeah lol As long as I can play demanding games like cyberspunk at max settings 1440p there’s no reason to give nvidia my hard earned dough 🖕🏽

Aint no way your gliding through 2023 with a 2070 at 1440