Yes...but did you notice that means that his losing the election was Sir Humphrey's fault? Think about it. Sir Humphrey is sworn to support the policies of whomever he's working for, but the stall tactics that his boss's predecessor couldn't get past cost him the election.
You know what I love about this scene? The cordiality and politeness with which Jim and Tom speak with each other, even if they are Government and Opposition. They even belong to the same club!
That's how it works in real life too. Here in France you've got politicians from all sides all coming from just a couple of schools. It's no surprise we alternate left and right all the time. Maybe it's for the best.
@@duncandrake2580 This should be about any (non) functioning "democracy" that needs more than words (like quotes and brackets in which this phrase is) to describe it accurately.
My favourite story about this show came from David cameron. When he was an undergrad in the 1980s he wrote a university essay about how the show was unrealistic and cynical. 30 years later he was prime minister and realised that his essay has been wrong and that the show is in fact entirely, painfully accurate .
Just googled it, it was true. The writer of this series is really amazing at delivering entertaining yet extremely accurate portrayal of how UK government run.
In NZ we used to have a minister called Richard Prebble (he was an idiot but that is another story). During an interview at the time Yes Minister was very popular on TV here, he was asked what he thought of it. He replied that he thought it was very funny, but said what is even funnier, is that all the viewers didn't realise they were actually watching documentary, not a comedy.
@@stylembonkers1094 So you want to ban the pledge of allegiance? Abolish questions about "why America is the greatest country in the world"? Stop sticking a flag in the corner of the classroom? I mean it sounds good to me but I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page here.
@@immortalsofar5314 In the UK, we didn't have a pledge of allegiance. Thankfully. It is teaching children to lie and be dishonest. What if the child genuinely hates the country they were brought up in and wants to leave it when they get older? I have seen RU-vid videos of Americans that have left the US for the UK and prefer it here in the UK.
"Oh not all, old boy... just a few hundred." They've had a long time, and considerable motivation to come up with as many as they can, trying to overcome all of them is beyond the capacity of even a dedicated career politician.
@@tonyb9735 I suppose he meant to refer to a generally percipient career politician; someone who discerns that he is being tricked and yet unable to do much.
The most interesting thing here is that in YPM, Sir Humphrey uses the same trick again and the first thing Hacker does is go to the last box and check the back, which shows he does at least learn the same tricks Tom has.
Probably the smartest thing the writers ever did was avoid talking about politics of the time. Politics can change so quickly that it makes older political satire weaker most of the time - even if the writing is excellently done.
@@Brook_tno But what is truly depressing is it was relevant after 20 or 30 years then. After another 30 years it still being relevant is testament to 'Creative Inertia'. Is there anyone left naive enough to still believe that the government proposes and the civil service disposes?
It’s depressing. This show played a major role in undermining and politicising the civil service. With the results we see today. It is a completely one-sided caricature civil service invented by professional political staffers to discredit the old independent civil service. Which it did, devastatingly.
I was amazed to learn that my local town government used the same tactics that are featured in this programme. They all seem to have attended the same school.
If you watched the whole series you would know they only attend two schools. Oxford and Cambridge. Leadership is rotated between it's graduates to keep things civil.
@@grogery1570 -- I'm sorry. I meant that civil servants Everywhere seem to have attended the same school. All civil servants seem to know these tricks.
@@leftcoaster67 Yup. There is a great exchange between Hacker and his wife later in the episode Jim: "The opposition aren't the opposition Annie: "Oh how silly of me they are just called the opposition." Jim: "They're only the opposition in exile the civil service as the opposition in residence."
@@perperson199 Listening to old Parliamentary debates and watching joint interviews from decades ago, it's amazing to see the level of courtesy between politicians from different parties, and it wasn't just the mandated politeness of "my noble friend from the other side." I'm sure most of it was the fact that the people in power were more likely to share a common background (a Labour MP from Oxford and a Tory from Oxford still both went to, you know, Oxford), but there's something to be said for the parties being made up of people who respect each other even if they disagree, as opposed to the clown show it's become in a lot of cases.
@@insertclevername4123 Agreed. But Labour used to have quite a few labourers in their rank, now they only have liberal middle class people. Oxford types are now common on both sides, but there is no integrity
Scottish actor Robert Urquhart playing the part of Tom here. Robert appeared in a lot of British movies and television from the 50s to the late 80s such as Danger Man, The Avengers, Callan, The Professionals, and in some Hammer Horror films. He died in 1995 aged 72.
@@grahamxs He does seem a bit like older Clarke. Though apparently Big Ken kept being asked if he was the model for the chain-smoking Leslie Potts, who ends up, like Clarke was at the time of broadcast, as a Health Minister.
Hunt around as many 2nd hand bookshops as possible. You might get lucky, as I did, and find the complete set of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister. Still disturbingly relevant in 2021.
Something else this clip illustrates is how many policies the governing and opposition parties agree on. We usually only hear about the ones on which they disagree because controversy sells news. But I'd bet that 75% of all legislation is agreed on by most MPs of all parties.
The romans didn't have a beureucratic corps until the empire and fairly late in the empire. The republic had politicians on all the posts which is why nothing worked at all because their one goal was to fleece their office as much as posisble before the next election.
it's catch 22. even if you know what they're doing you can't stop them. like he says you have far too much on your plate as a minister to be aware of all the things they hide. they either tell you so much you don't know what is important or so little you're out of the loop.
@@bezretmet I normally as an American have admired the Westminster system for being more immune to gridlock because they have one house and do not separate powers, but at least typically the American Executive Branch moves more top personnel as the administrations come and go (it is messy work, and one reason for an ineffective Trump administration, which was not experienced in politics and just left many critical positions chronically unfilled). But, then they have bicameral houses - the strategy of American government has always been to keep the elected officials infighting with conflicting powers. Shame neither has gotten it right yet, but one thing I like to remind people is Westminster-style governments tend to be more stable, as many other countries tended towards the American system and lead to corrupt governments due to centralization of executive powers into a single branch under a single person.
The first time I watched this show it made me angry, since then I have just enjoyed it. I guess it is just a reflection of us the public, we are not fair in our dealings too in our daily affairs, am sure if we get bigger opportunities to deceive others financially or otherwise, we wouldn't hesitate. On a lighter note, I never get tired of this show, for me it is the best show ever.
Same in our country, parliamentary paper-pushers stall everything in order to preserve their control of what actually gets done. It's why legislation takes years to get through.
Two politicians in opposition having a sane, rational conversation. Does that even happen today? I suppose the 'bitter rivalry' is just for show and behind the scenes, they all have their snouts drinking off of the same trough...
you're bang on, only the popular politicians and the actual believers hate their opponents. Most politicians only believe in something if they think it'll further their career and/or get them re-elected.
They’re mostly all on the same side. They pretend for the cameras. There are a handful of sincere reformers. You know who they are when they get accused of possessing child pornography.
I read or watched something that suggested that only in the last decade or two American congress began being socially separated by party. They used to travel together or something. It didn't take that long for negotiations that usually worked to stop working. It's easy to get on with people you see all the time travel with etc. even if you're not in agreement on politics. If you only see them on the opposite side of the parliament then it's easier to think of them as the enemy. Basically US politicians don't need to worry about civil servants stopping them doing anything. Their opposition will do that any time they have anything resembling the power to stop them.
@@ribbonsofnight Indeed. It forms an echo-chamber of sorts. The less time they spend with the opposition, the more they can't stand each other and therefore, reach a point of no return. And from the timeline that you just mentioned, it seems the advent of the internet has put paid to any form of collaboration between public figures with opposing viewpoints, lest they are seen cohorting with each other by their 'followers', who are omnipresent thanks to social media. Sadly, one can see this polarisation across all sections of the society.
@@ribbonsofnight Eh, sort of. When they “work together” it’s nearly always for some corrupt purpose. There’s been a bit of a populist uprising by voters (Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party both opposed the banker bailouts, for example, and at least some voters on both sides are not happy about the endless wars in the Middle East) that has forced politicians on both sides to pretend they’re working against each other, at least in public. But it’s mostly theater. Behind closed doors, they’re still working together to screw the people and shower their corporate friends with taxpayer money. Biggest scam on the planet.
Superb... and uniquely British. From the fall of the Berlin Wall to a united Germany =- 11 months, with no prepatration at all. If a post-war divided Britain was being re-united in similar circumstances, after 30 years, the preliminary arrangments may have been finalised.....
So, how the hell are they getting Brexit done so quickly? You would think the civil service would stall and stall and stall despair the country that disaster. If things were the way that they were in the show, they would do it for no other reason than to maintain the status quo. Instead, the UK is moving forward with it and strangling itself in the process. If reports are to be believed coming from the place, there are actual food shortages because of it. People are losing livelihoods all around the country and times are just getting tough for no other reason than they decided to pull out of the single market.
@@philomelodia I would not have said that the "progress" since the EU referendum, 5+ years ago, has been rapid. It is being stalled by the civil service at every stage... hence the sluggardly rate of change.
An ideal government should balance the youthful desire for change with the aged knowledge of what works, the spirituality of the Saint with the pragmatism of the soldier, and above all the will of the people with the means to fulfil it. I used to love watching this show at the time. I wondered how the writers got away with it.
This scene reminds me of when Paul Keating was Australian Treasurer and John Howard (previous Treasurer) was in opposition. In public they were viewed as bitter political rivals. But behind the scenes, both men must have worked together to push through monetarist economic reform. Howard must have advised Keating on how to cut through the bureaucratic machine. And Howard had openly volunteered to assist the new government wherever he could (Keating used to mock Howard for this in Parliament Question Time). Think about it! At first, Keating was cringeworthy. He lacked confidence and fell into a heap during debates and speeches. But in a matter of a few months, he became confident and displayed great competence. By mid-1984 he was unstoppable. This kind of turnaround doesn't happen with inexperienced Treasurers without some mentorship behind the scenes (especially with a man who left school at 14 with no formal qualifications).
Keating's version of events was he moved into the Treasurers office and the only thing that was there was there was a copy of the Gratton report, gathering dust. This was the basis of all the economic change that happened in Australia during the '80's. Of course if this clip is to be believed maybe it was the only way Howard could keep the public service from burying the report in the fifth box or saying he couldn't see old reports. Unlikely as my recollection is the report was commissioned prior to the election as a way of convincing people the government was doing some thing to improve the economy!
@@siredith8846 Howard did claim a good working relationship, after the fact, saying while in opposition the government had his full support. He never explained why he did nothing in government.
I wonder if this is what all that GST theatre was about. Labor proposal, Coalition brought it in, Labor/Dems put in some meaningless exemptions to virtue signal. Or even waterfront reform, after all, Labor hardly moved to restore the Maritime unions' power when they got back in.
Hah! - they all work in the same - tiny - industry and often went to the same schools, live in that same towns etc. of course many of them know one another outside of work.
As they say in episode "The Opposition isn't the realy Opposition; they're the Opposition in Exile. The Civil Service are the real Opposition. Its not *entirely* Fictitious. Every now and then, you'll see glimmers of genuine unity. Admittedly usually between backbenchers. Moments, when there is sincere admiration and respect between two members of opposing parties. But those moments almost always involve body counts.
Just think, this is two politicians on complete oppostite parties discussing how best to get around the civil service and get something implemented that will actually be beneficial for the country...how come we don't see this kind of joint cooperation in real life or today's politics?
The interesting thing about this scene to me was that it always made me suspect Jim was a Labour MP. Or at least Tom from the Opposition seems more like a classic Tory. All the "dear boy"s he throws around etc etc
"To Labour we explain that selective education is divisive, and to the Tories we explain, that it it expensive. That way we have a happy relationship with the N.U.T., and we educate our own children, *privately."* Sir Humphrey Applebee
@@sarac.3259 oh I couldn't possibly equate my meager and skinny vernacular to Humphrey's exquisite and incredibly comprehensive vocabulary, I could merely, observing the relevant facts of the matter and with mature consideration endeavor to make my forgetfulness appear in the most opportune of times.
Jim: How do you make them something they don't want to? Tom: Old boy, if I knew that, I wouldn't be in opposition. And that's why the carousel must keep turning. Can't have people who know what they're doing and built a cadre of loyalists be in charge. That's a dictatorship, i.e. they can make them follow orders.
Scottish actor Robert Urquhart playing the part of Tom here. Robert appeared in a lot of British movies and television from the 50s to the late 80s such as Danger Man, The Avengers, Callan, The Professionals, and in some Hammer Horror films. He died in 1995 aged 72
Which platform showcases this old TV series? I’ve checked Apple TV, Amazon and Netflix but cannot find this series listed under any of these platforms.
@@karthiksubramaniam6951 Thank you. I was able to find these episodes. You are right in saying that person who uploaded these episodes is a kindly benevolent soul.
I guess in that they'd have found a way to stop the referendum being called in the first place, you might be right. Once that referendum had been called their tactics wouldn't have worked as it would have been the general population they had to fob off rather than just 1 dull minded politician. I suspect a different skill set would have been needed.
@@Afterthoughtbtw I wasn’t really being that specific. I think Humphrey might have been thrilled to leave the EU but (assuming he could swallow his arrogance for long enough) he’s smart enough to have done it in such a way as to avoid most of the fallout. It wasn’t so much what we did but how we did it and then reacted to it… the whole farce is a shameful catalogue of withering ineptness. Media, politicians and voters included.
@@Afterthoughtbtw The racist and dull minded general public of England and Wales latched onto Brexit like the KKK latched onto white pointy hats. Scotland and NI did not. Bojo has broken the Union. A Unionist family in Scotland May 2016 has bern a Separatist one since July 2016. Way to go Torrirs. Even Sir Humphrey could not save the Union now.
Hate to sound like a brexiteer but democracy is better than technocracy in the long term as long as it does not become an autocracy. It is much easier to remove bad policies with a democracy. The EU, despite its tecnocratic bend, is still appointed by democratic elected leaders.
what are you talking about?? UK is OUT! Gone. The Europeans are marching on without you, happy as clams!! The crap you're witnessing is INTERNAL Devastation that will continue for the next 50 years. Enjoy. YOU WON - GET OVER IT.
More of a Documentary actually. Back in the Great days of Television. Can't say that stuff now. Don't make TV shows like that these days. .......................Just pick one to use in any comment below.
The problem is that with the advent of Johnson, this no longer holds good. You have him running amok, unable to make timely decisions about the pandemic when he has professionals giving him good advice. You have in the series, Jim Hacker whose politics are like a weathervane willing to grab at cheap easy publicity conscious moves and with an inability to plan long term. Humphrey Appleby was around in easier times when politicians were better than the dreadfully unfit crew and the blundering amateur Hackers can do more damage. Appleby’s comments on here today gone tomorrow politicians are very apt. You also have the increasing politicisation of civil servants which started with Thatcher. The conception of this series, if not it’s execution into the Yes Prime Minister series predated Thatcher.
Politicians are here today, gone tomorrow and they have no real qualifications so it's just as well that the civil service is there to moderate their craziness.
@@Section5_CdnIntelService Inertia and stability have their advantages. Not allowing change unless there is overwhelming demand or support for it is often a good thing.
@@barryfoster453 imagine running a business and letting a new random unqualified person off the street be CEO every few years. They would have a lot of very stupid ideas because they didn't understand the business. Just as they start to learn you get rid of them and pick another. It doesn't make sense at all
Response from a Brexiteer a few minutes ago - priceless!! Read this: KENNETH HORN Highlighted reply KENNETH HORN 2 minutes ago @Swann Victor The Romans did more for this country than the Europeans. Would someone like to tell him...?!!! 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@barryfoster453 disagree. Mr Horn doesn't seem to know Rome is in Italy: In Europe. Anyway, gave me a good laugh. The point you are trying to make is far to subtle for the average Brexit moron. Read some of his earlier posts if you don't believe me. As for the decision, You're quite right: I think it was shocking. I never knew the country I grew up and loved was so racist. The vote was a disgrace and has destroyed the British reputation around the world. Morons lied to by Charlatans and cheap crooks masquerading as politicians. Brexit is the biggest catastrophe to hit the UK in its history: All SELF- Inflicted. Shocking these days to see Racism openly spewed on these posts, day in, day out. What happened to my country? Why are the natives so angry, bitter and racist?? What exactly have these Brexiteers 'Won"?
@@gavandeathe1373 you're probably right about me being an idiot, I don't really care, however, you are being far too generous to the average brexshiteer to understand such subtle differences in race genetics. Besides, it was a good cheap laugh at a racist morons expense, so, lets just all move on with our lives, shall we?
@@Vincent-jl6vu Only calling out what I see mate. Look me in the eye and with a straight face that Brexit was NOT about Racism and xenophobia? If it wasn't, then simply give me ONE Benefit of Brexit (and PLEASE, for my sanity and your dignity, do not say "Fish" Blue Passports" "Sovereignty!" or "Independence!" That will demonstrate clearly to the world you have no benefits to Brexit. And the reason is simple: THERE ARE NO BENEFITS. IT WAS SUICIDE. Time to wake u mate, look yourself in the eye in your mirror and try some truth serum: you voted for Brexit because you hated "them there furriners comin' over 'ere takin' our jobs!" Admit that to yourself and you might feel better. If I am completely wrong about everything, please explain this: EVERYTHING Brexiteers were warned about...HAS COME TRUE. In Just 9 Months. "Project Fear" they said and called US TRAITORS. Well, Now We See the Truth. Fear Became REALITY. WE WERE THE PATRIOTS TRYING TO SAVE OUR COUNTRY: Brexshiteers were the TRAITORS. THERE ARE NO UNICORNS. THERE WILL BE NO SUNLIT UPLANDS. YOU HAVE DESTROYED THE FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN & GRANDCHILDREN. GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL BECAUSE I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU.
now that i think of it....this comedy is like the liberals democrats trying to get good things done in the government for the past twenty years,and the republicans just stalling and dragging their feet every step of the way.....
