I've always seen the Yonko as slightly stronger, and I think its likely that given the point in this video, advanced conquerers haki will be a deciding factor. Luffy vs Kizaru is actually the perfect time to show it too. Thematically Kizaru is a self described 'cog in the machine', a lackey, a subordinate, whereas Luffy is a captain, and wants to be a King of sorts. Conquerers haki is an ability possessed by leaders, and the leader is by definition, above a subordinate. Furthermore I think its interesting that all of the admirals names are based on animals (eg: Kizaru translates to 'Yellow Monkey') and we know that conquerers haki can be used to tame animals. I can see this fight being about showing the difference between a king and a subordinate. Also, whilst I know that this is more to do with armament, haki was introduced as a counter to logia powers. However I don't think that this definitively means that haki is better than devil fruits in all scenarios. If anything, I think its likely that Luffy will show us the importance of mastering both. If we assume devil fruits are made from and embody dreams as has been hinted at previously, and if we understand that Haki is in some respect a persons willpower converted into energy, then Luffy will need both. Luffy will be the end of the story become pirate king by using his devil fruit abilities, which represent the power of peoples dreams, combined with his haki, which represents the willpower to act on and carry out those dreams.
Kat, Zoro, Rayleigh all have King’s Haki and are subordinates. Yes Zoro is going for Mihawk’s title, yet he still need the strength of a king to complete with Mihawk as the strongest swordsman. Rayleigh has a lot of things in common with Zoro as Luffy does with Roger so we can infer that Ray had the strength or at least the strength of Mihawk in his prime. Kat you could make an argument, but it’s known that he was stronger than Luffy at the time. It took a lot for Luffy to be see as his equal by Kat. Also in a data book it’s mentioned how Luffy disliked how he won that fight. I think all the Admirals have King’s Haki, especially the original three. Sengoku and Garp have it, Garp was offered the position while Sengoku accepted it along with a promotion to be the Fleet Admiral. If Sengoku was has it could be a Admiral and Fleet Admiral why can’t the current Admirals and current Fleet Admiral have it?
I read a lot of stories. I think it's pretty much common sense that every top tier fighters at the level of yonkos and admirals are all advance conquerer Haki user. At least it is common sense to me. Doflamingo has conqueror even tho he's so afraid of kaido and was willing to be under kaido, Rayleigh has too even though he's serving under Roger.
This haki argument is kind of stupid because 4/5 admirals have a real good chance for Acoc and we've literally seen an Admiral box Garp (Don't start with the "he wasn't using Acoc argument" because although they are touching, Acoc touching is extremely inconsistent, Garp said he wasn't holding back and there was black lightning which doesn't always mean Acoc but most of the time it does.)
@@nicholasalexander9866 All three of those subordinates were clearly represented as exceptions to the rule. Katakuri's drive to be a "king" doesn't interfere with his subordination to Big Mom, because what he seeks is being the unbeatable older brother to all of his siblings. Zoro's drive to be a "king" is all about being the world's greatest swordsman, not being Pirate King, so it's not a conflict of interests with Luffy. And much character development/exploration has been given to his relationship with Luffy, and how he's only willing to follow him because he's a competent leader who will not stifle Zoro (or any of the crew's) growth, but rather enable his(/their) growth. Raleigh has the least insight to his character given, but we can assume it's similar to Zoro's. The fact that he's a Conqueror is supposed to drive home how exceptional Roger is for being able to lead him despite that unruly personality. Both Roger and Luffy stand above others specifically because they are able to recruit and command other Conquerors, whereas Katakuri was just born into being Big Mom's subordinate lol.
What's funny is that in universe both sides are convinced of their arguments even more so than the most die hard fans. Kaido pulled up to Marineford basically by himself, and Kizaru asked if they wanted him to go take out Big Mom and Kaido, and I don't think I've ever met someone who would claim that either of those two would have actually stood a chance at success.
I think its fair to say that from a storytelling perspective it would make no sense for Oda to have waited so long for the Admirals to play a bigger role only to have them be irrelevant directly after.
Thank you...i second this. There are 5 admirals we've seen and we've barely seen any of them fight seriously at all. It would be kinda odd for Oda to just have them sell and job to their opponents at this point, throwing out over a decades worth of build up.
Because two of the admirals will be fought by Sanji and Zoro Akainu seems to scale above the others admirals or the original trio from the golden pirate age are more relative to each other Aokiji’s fruit is inferior to magma yet he still fought Akainu for 10 days, Jinbei stating they were comparable in power
@@aceclover758 Not to mention that we now know that Kuzan was trained by Garp who was Rodgers rival. Wouldn't surprise me if the mentors of Akainu and Kizaru also were legendary. Would make sense for them to be the succesors of the the strongest Marines just like the Strawhats are to the Rodger pirates. That would also mean that we still have ways to go until the real fight against them cause as of now I only see Luffy being able to fight and defeat them.
The problem is, if Luffy wins then Kizaru would be called weaker than the Yonko. And if Kizaru somehow wins people will claim that it is Luffy that is weaker than the Yonko. People already have their biased view set in stone.
Luffy is technically weaker than the previous generation of Yonko. It took like ma gazillion people pulling out their best moves for Kaido to FINALLY get his L. A win is a win, Luffy beat Kaido, but it's not like it was a true 1v1
@phenomenonnarutokun Luffy also spent most of the battle at a handicap not having known ACoC and later Gear 5, meanwhile he was getting absolutely starched by Kaido's ACoC the whole time and even was put on death's door. Kaido also has absolutely cracked durability in his favor. I think battle damage was way closer between the two than people want to give credit, if not straight up Luffy having it worse.
@@phenomenonnarutokun the counter Argument to that is that Luffy Still did like 80% of the Damage and was still evolving mid battle. After reaching Gear 5 i don't think Kaido could beat him so it's all about whether or not he can outlast the timer. And Luffy seems like he's increased the amount of time he can spent in that form
@@phenomenonnarutokun That was the luffy while fighting kaido. The luffy right now is already far stronger than the luffy who was fighting Kaido. Hence you can say that the luffy which is kizaru is fighting is already as strong as Kaido. If you think luffy is still as strong as the luffy before he defeated kaido, you're underestimating luffy's progression. They were literally ready to throw hands with greenbull while still recovering. After luffy recovered from the fight he already as strong as kaido. You need to get shanks atleast to stop luffy rn.
lol because the world government is stacked.. As he said himself they didn’t disband the warlords because they found them useless they did it because they came up with something else that they think could deal with us. Hence going after the ancient weapons help guarantee them a leverage over such forces.
@@MrBassem95 Y’all just arguing from extremist view points. Nobody said anything about dog walk. Lol the warlords were a 3 great power that mattered hence by they replaced them with a more functioning loyal army with insane upgrades to some of them. Also the seraphim’s wasn’t the only thing. They have entire department that’s what SSG is
@@FireAngelChristhe warlords and the SSG Pacifista are there to deal with the commanders not the Yonko. The Emperor has an entire crew. You’re telling me that Kizaru +4 seraphim+ Pacifista and vice admirals can’t outright stalemate a Yonko crew or at least make it extremely hard to beat?
@@MrBassem95 Why are you making up things I never said. Like the dog walking the admirals stand point. That’s some extremist views nobody is arguing. The fandom argues as if everyone argues in extremes. The warlords now replaced by the ssg are a 3rd great power on their own. They work to aide the marine head quarter. They aren’t just there to deal with the Yonko commanders. That’s not stated anywhere in the story. The 4 Yonko do not work together as an until either. They fight among each other. It’s like people forget the entire navy headquarters is part of the 3 great power. White beard had the largest fleet the government have more man power than 1 Yonko crew. They simple have more bodies to throw at them. Hence why the Yonko themselves have to be that powerful as a deciding factor. Kizaru +4 seraphim + pacifists & vice admirals with marine soldiers is further adding to my point.
There’s definitely still levels of ACoC, Aramaki was still fighting after getting hit by Yamato. But Shanks’ Haki is clearly beyond that of Yamato’s. I think they’re all close in strength. Think it’d be a serious fight no matter the matchup My problem was always people saying commanders = admirals when that’s definitely not the case, and wouldn’t make any sense at all narratively
@@gamingscout592 commanders still got smacked though.. and now that we’re seeing admirals really fight as of late, it’s clear they weren’t even going all out at MF.. Aramaki saying “mere commanders” too
@@gamingscout592every time a commander fought a admiral they lost and took a L or went barley even. Thats like me saying vista = mihawk Crocodile = white beard.
Exactly, and when you think about Marine ford and the battles that happened there, you will notice that it doesn’t represent anything of the power scale Look at akainu’s state and compare it to aokiji’s then you will see the difference between them but what happened when they fought against each other was different from what you would think taking Marine ford state
I've always believed that Yonkou are stronger than admirals, but not by a landslide as some people think. But we have to keep an open mind and realize as the story goes on, with most of the OG Yonkou taken out of the picture, there's a strong probability the admirals will look just as impressive as the Yonkou or perhaps even better because the narrative will demand it. It's why all these characters such as Shanks, Mihawk and Dragon are literally getting buffed as the story goes on. Consistent power-scaling is important for a series to have but what's more important to Oda is narrative and Oda will make a character as strong as they need to be when he needs them to be.
Yeah! If the Yonko are around 70-100%, The Admirals should be around 50-80%. Followed by the YC Commanders and Vice Admirals around 20-50% (Zoro, Yamato, King, Kat, Marco, etc...). Exceptions for the rule are Buggy at 0%, Mihawk at Yonko level, Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman at Admiral level.
But yonko level isn't exact, i think we can now safely say Kaido and Bigmom are weaker than Shanks and prime WB. Not by a wide margin, but they would beat them eventually. The same goes for Admirals, being slightly weaker than Kaido and Big mom, and a bit more challenged by a guy like shanks, judging by akainu's reaction.
Or it's simply that people were being disingenuous, doing things like downplaying WB to try and downplay the Admirals. The story has established that all the top tiers are comparable and viewed in a similar way. The Admirals and other Yonko showing stuff now will look impressive because they've always been that way. It's certain fans that have tried to deny it and are now being shocked...like those that were surprised that Yonko Luffy called an Admiral strong.
By Yonkou are you referring to old era Yonkou (the three former Rocks and Shanks) or the New Era Yonkou ? Cause Old Era Yonkou win by landslide (except for WB which is sick at the time)
I really just feel like we haven't had enough opportunities to see the Admirals go all out individually. It's easy to say the Yonko are stronger because we get more time with them, or these epic one shot moments like Shanks and Kid or Kaido's introduction when he jumps off the sky island.
@janned356 Yeah, for sure, I'm putting them their because it only makes since with the importance they have to the story and for it make since for them to be above the Navy, Holy Knights, etc. It could also be the case of people/us completely underrating Sabo and could be potentially at Admiral or higher level. This could also reaffirm that Dragon is as powerful as his Bounty & Bloodline suggests and is at the level of Rocks, Roger, Whitebeard, Garp, and maybe even a Tier higher between them and Imu.
@@Originul_Yonko was built as tanks to take out anyone in their way, especially to get to the One Piece. The WG needs admirals, warlords, fleets, giants, the holy knights, and possibly the Gorosei to stop one Yonko. As much as I like the admirals to be strong, especially Akainu which he possibly could be Yonko level, we should’ve known since the Marineford arc that you need the whole Government (minus Imu, Holy Knights, and Gorosei) to stop an old, dying Whitebeard.
A good point of how the power structure works, is cross guild and warlord wars. Just them putting bounties on the Navy was enough to put the world into chaos.
The major difference is the type of abilities they have. The Admirals are mostly "area of effect" fighters with their Logias, and the Yonko are either brute force tanks or highly resilient with a haki focus. Both forces are incredibly strong on their own, but the hard part of fighting an admiral is hitting them in the first place.
True, Yonko are stronger until prime Garp puts his Galaxy Nuts on Big Mom's forehead (mother Caramel appreciates 🫣) clashes with Kaido using his own club Shanks is too impressed but since he can't 👏 he gives up the title White Beard already knows he can't compete cos he tried to hit Shanks with a sake jar 🫙 and Shanks dodged it while sitted, so if Shanks can't fight Garp he can't fight Garp.
One thing More has not mentioned is Sengoku had CoC who was a fleet Admiral. By that pattern Akainu should be having CoC so It is pretty much even. So it is not technically Yonko's CoC vs fleet admiral's devil fruit awakening.
It's even worse for the admirals after the last ep lmao. They made it very clear that King and Queen where nowhere close to their full power. Heck, King couldn't use magma or even his own sword lool. Even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember. Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men. There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then. Not even close. HAHA there is no more admiral agenda, there never should have been one to begin with lol. Imagine a dying old admiral taking on 3 prime yonko and other pirates in a war and managing to severely injuring 1 of them and managing to tank 100 bullets into the gut with no haki without trying to defend. Yea no. Impossible to the point I can't even imagine it happening. Yonko are considerably stronger than admirals and honestly even 2 admirals are not enough to take down the OG/stronger yonkos
FACTSSSSSS. And green bull is just a damnn fraud , he got shit on by an 11 yold and got defeated in wifi by shanks the moment after, embarasssssing!!! It was clearly shown at marineford like you stated that yonkos >>>admirals and it would just make sense if you look at aokiji being yc2 in bbs crew. These marine meatriders are literally syaing yc2 = yonko lmao.
But many will still say that Kizaru and Luffy Stalemated as both of them can't move. Like they don't understand that one can't move due to the other one's attack and other can't move due to his own power usage drain. Like C'mon, Luffy was the clear winner without even ACOC.
@@apoorvaraj3894 No, he wasn't the clear winner wuite frankly. Idk what would make you think that. He was on the floor just like kizaru, luffy HAD to go gear 5 and exert enough energy to knock himself out to knock down kizaru. "Luffy hasn't used ACOC" ,ok, kizaru hasn't used devil fruit awakening. 🤦♂️ Stop the cap guys, nothing is settled yet.
@@near2196 Greenbull is a fraud, you can't use that argument. That's the equivalent of saying all admirals are stronger than yonko because akainu can beat buggy. Buggy is a clown, greenbull is a mickey mouse admiral, so use a different admiral. Also, admirals stop commanders, what are you smoking 🚬 Jozu got packed up by aokiji. Marco couldn't do anything against kizaru. Akainu fought multiple commanders at the same time after eating an island shaking attack from whitebeard and forced them to retreat.
@@michaeldavis6993 first off your reply to the other guy. How can you say for sure that kizaru’s devil fruit had not been awakened yet, or if logias even have an awakening. I don’t think it had been confirmed (correct me if I’m wrong with a proof from the manga). Even so, I don’t think it would be even near as strong as gear 5. Luffy has way more room for growth than any admiral who are carried by their devil fruit. Also , it is stated in the manga that ACOC > devil fruit so acoc coated bajrang gun would probably one shot kizaru (if it connects) if we are being honest
@@bruhhmomentummclose but It's even worse for the admirals, even 2 admirals aren't enough to take down the og/stronger yonko. Luffy wasn't even abusing acoo, acoa + acoc and wasn't even bothering to attack him, rather focusing on sending him away from the fight, against any other admiral that would have been enough, but Kizaru can stop mid air and beam right back, without taking dmg from the lasers you have to remember. Luffy had no reason to power through that laser and take all that dmg, it would have been over in an instant if Luffy actually popped his haki and went all out around the area. But then again that would probably knock out some of the weaker characters there. We already saw Luffy doing that post g5 and Shanks as well a few chapters later on his own men. There's so many things to catch here, Luffy back on WCI could use g4 for a bit and then had to run around for 10 mins till his haki recovered and he could use it again. But now with g5 he can toy with Kizaru or whoever else for that matter, like Lucci got done lol. And when he runs out, he can just either beat his heart right back into it once more (seems like 2 g5 uses in a row is the max Luffy can do for now at least, only reason Luffy is lying down gassed on the floor rn, even after the Kaido fight he couldn't even move and Yamato had to catch him as he fell) OR he could fight in base/g2 with adv Haki now. He was going toe to toe with hybrid Kaido in base at a level that was way above what Yamato could do and even split the sky with that. Since g5 is df based it shouldn't suck out anywhere near as much haki as g4, moreover the pure hax afforded by g5 lets him not even haki till he's actually pushed like Vegapunk almost getting killed. The fact that Luffy can catch up to Kizaru if he tries should have been another indicator that Luffy was never trying to actually kill/defeat Kizaru at any point then.
Are you kidding? WG + Navy must gather almost all his forces + all 7 warlords to match up one Emperor + whole crew/army. And it is enough if we take into consideration even the presence of the RedHair pirates later. 2 Emperors easily overpowers whole Navy + 7 Warlords. So this powerscale system of yours is useless. None of the Admirals have Conquers haki. Amaraki himself said that Kaido's mere presence in Wano deterred others from invading the island. The only one who could or should match the Yonkos is the Fleet Admiral. 1st and 2nd Yonkou Commanders are mostly almost at the level of Admirals. Not to mention that other High Officers are way stronger than another navy rank ....Vice Admirals. Resp. almost strong as Warlords. Emperors Fleet Admiral 1th Emperor Commander / Admirals 2th Emperor Commander / Warlords High Emperor Officers Warlord High Commanders Vice Admirals (of course with a few exceptions)
I was watching one of your videos from 3 years ago earlier & I just want to say it’s very clear how much you’ve improved at making videos over the past few years. I’m only a few minutes into this video but the difference is clear & I just wanted to let you know it’s noticeable & evident how much work you’ve put in over the years. Awesome content!
@@ankitrishabh9243 who cares about likes other than kids/teens lol? I was expressing how I felt, likes are just a byproduct of that if what I say resonates with people. The fact what I said somehow triggered you makes the comment even more worth it tho🤷♂️
One of the things I love about One Piece. Is how even the one piece power scaling debates are unique. You have the entire fanbases arguing about two factions their scope of power. These videos are so fun to me.
The og 4 Yonko are easily stronger than the admirals, but the new yonko like Buggy, Luffy, and Blackbeard aren't nearly as strong as the OG 4 yonko. Luffy Kid and Law only won because they all got power amps, devil fruit awakenings, and had a numbers advantage.
There's clear difference, Shanks forcefully made green bull run away where as ratbeard ran away from akainu cuz he didn't see any gains from that fight and we all know how ratbeard moves like the bifch he is
@@DARamMz Lmao why are you even hating on wb but defending the damn marines. They are all frauds. Wb was old, sick and on the verge of death and akainu got the fight of his life, or akainu the dog should i say🤣. Green Bull got shit on by an 11 years old (bro cant even take one blast breath), he got wifi clowned by shanks. Imagine getting defeated by a guy miles away just unsheating 1 cm of his sword
Two things to keep in mind. As strong as luffy has become he still isn't stronger than kaido. I also don't think kizaru is trying to fight. Hes about the bag and strategy. He could care less about a petty fight as long as his mission is complete. Edit: Even Oda said that currently Luffy would lose to Kaido. It's not that serious though. It's the writing why the show is good not who can win against who. As strong as gear 5 Luffy is Kaido is stronger because of his haki. Luffy will get there. It's like saying Naruto during the war was stronger than Madara. Yes he eventually got there but during his actual battle it took more than just Naruto to take him down
kizaru definitely cares about the fight, he knows that is he underestimates luffy and doesn’t take the fight seriously then this could mean he’s done, now i don’t think luffy would kill kizaru but from his pov this fight could mean life or death.
@@thesenate7710caring about the fight and the goal of actually fighting is very different. Of course he cares that he’s fighting Luffy but his victory condition is killing Vegapunk, that’s what he needs to do and Luffy loses the fight.
I think the strength of Conquerer's Haki is all about will (or physical condition too with Whitebeard). Kizaru has no strong will of his own as 'a cog in the machine', so he may be completely incapable of it. Akainu found himself the guarding dog of celestial dragons and doing paperwork all day, but he always had a strong will to wipe out pirates, so the power of his Conquerer's Haki might be decreasing. Aokiji was just freed from the shackles of the marines to do as he pleases, likely towards a clear goal, so his Conquerer's Haki may be increasing in power.
@@Sqaudimifadda Still, he can't do so as he's still bossed around by the Celestials. Though, it would be different if he snapped and somehow kills the Celestials himself.
@@Sqaudimifaddaconquerors haki is given to those with a big dream and will to conquer and more free than others admerials are controlled by wg and cant even go all out when its to protect cd while fighting thats why only garp and sengoku got conquerors haki and sengoku got conquerors haki because to match up with garp
According to Rayleigh if Conqueror's Haki also increases during a fight , that way Kizaru's Conqueror's would not be to be neglected because he has never lost a fight.Oh yes , i forgot , if that doesn't go exclusively to pirates or the main character it's illegal and of course if it happens it makes 0 sense for whatever excuse one may come up with just because he/she hates the Navy.And don't talk about non canon Shanks scenes , also even in these scenes Kizaru stood his ground like a champion Finally to defend myself upon the upcoming Yonko meatriders who'll call me a biased Admiral fanboy like they always do to anyone that brings a single argument that would seemingly demote their Yonkos from the Godly status they have about them in their minds and apart from the Yonkos nothing else matters to them anymore , now in Egghead i can't see Kizaru losing to Luffy the same way i can't see Luffy losing to Kizaru upon taking into account all of Luffy's growth in Wano in Haki paralleled to the way his grandpa Garp deals with his most dangerous enemies.The Admiral milestone has been reached from Luffy and any of the Admirals can equally clash with him and vice versa.
any admiral would no-mid diff any yonko commander exept Ben Beckman right now we all know that but maybe some admirals are equal to Yonkos in power we will see when the fight in Egghead ends.
@@ahmetyahya7807I don't think they are going to show anything at the end of egghead. People are thinking kizaru would join the crew which is a very bizzare theory.
You said that "haki seems more important than devil fruits", but I'd like to remind you that Kaidou said exactly that immediately before being defeated by a devil fruit power. That to me seemed like a pretty direct statement by Oda himself: "no, Kaidou, you are wrong". Atleast narratively Oda tries to keep the two power systems balanced.
The issue with your statement is that you are using your interpretation to support your point. The best way to support your statements is with the source materialYou have to remember that roger conquered the sea using haki alone. Garp and Roger took down the Rocks pirates using Haki and not devil fruits. As far as we are concerned the roger pirates didn't have any devil fruit users that made an impact. Also, Kaido wasn't defeated by a devil fruit alone. When it came down to the final clash, it was a clash of haki and luffy came out on top. A good comparison in regards to a clash between devil fruits would be Luffy vs Doflamingo. I'm saying this not to dunk on you. More so to have a respectful conversation.
Not only that, Kaido himself appealed to his Devil Fruit's power as his final and strongest move lol, a gigantic magma dragon. And he died to lava. He contradicted himself completely, after Luffy proved him wrong through Mythical Zoan awakening
lol no because kaido was defeated by an advance coated haki fist. Kaido wasn’t wrong at all. I am willing to argue if Luffy will don’t reach a certain level he wouldn’t have u locked his mythical devil fruit.
Also Admirals not having COC would make sense considering they were all shocked when Luffy unleashed it at Marineford and all of sudden considered him a threat. Like they were afraid of something they didn’t have.
I like the idea that by taking the position of admiral, it goes against the ideals of a conqueror by being subservient to the world government and just playing your part and taking orders.
@@beatgamer99if kuzan has it, we won’t see it until we understand and find out his true goal with what he’s doing since leaving the navy, but I agree that akainu probably could
I agree, and I also think it would be odd for lapdogs of the world government to have conqueror's haki. Someone who just goes along with any order, like Kizaru (seemingly), shouldn't have conqueror's haki imo because he lacks the disposition of a king. I think the only marines that should have it are those who tend to defy the rules and think outside of the box, like Garp for example, who defied the WG by hiding Ace for years.
I think the Yonko are actually the ones that narratively need to be above at least your average admiral for the balance to make sense, since there clearly seems to be an individual that guarantees the empire's safety and how does that individual do that? By being the deterrent, the one that makes the government think that sending an admiral is just wasting that admiral, Aramaki's speech about Kaido pretty much confirms this. The government can't afford to send two admirals since that would leave them way too open, so if a certain territory controlled by pirates can't be confidently gained back by sending an admiral with a good fleet, then they can't do anything about it, a new Yonko is born.
I think the one thing you're missing about the balance of power is that if the marines and the Yonko crews fight, the other parties will jump on the survivors. We already saw this in Marineford with Blackbeard and Kaido wanting to use the war as an opportunity to interfere. Even if the Yonko aren't allies, they still represent a common threat. The Government might well be able to beat two Yonko crews back to back, but the casualties could make them vulnerable enough to succumb to the other two crews. Heck, even if the Government managed to beat all four Yonko empires, they still have other enemies in the world like the Revolutionaries who could take advantage of the crisis.
Something I think is very interesting is how statistic whitebeard was in marineford compared to him in the flashbacks and what we've seen from the likes of shanks, kaido and luffy in their fights. It might just be the way Oda had set up marineford as a conflict but it definitely feels like whitebeard was hampered by his illness at least in mobility and physical capability.
I personally see Logias not having an awakening. Like what do you want more than being an element and creating it out of nothing? That's probably why the logias are so powerful: their power is already at max, just need to master it.
You could say the same thing for Katakuri and Doffy. They can create infinite mochi/string from their bodies but they still had awakenings which extend that ability to their external environment.
I agree with everything in this video besides the fact that we will get an answer. I still think that this fight will be short and inconclusive before the SH escape.
I think the idea is the marines could fight and possibly beat a yonko if very necessary, but they would incur such heavy losses that it wouldn't be worth it.
this isnt an all out battle to defeat each other, they both have goals outside of that they are trying to accomplish and the fight will be over before someone loses i believe, so it wont solve the debate
The way I've always considered it is that as individuals the Yonko are stronger than Admirals. It just seems to come with the territory since being a pirate, conquering territory and leading other people is all required to be a Yonko and seems to be the key to Conquerer's haki. Whereas the Admirals, besides maybe Akainu, don't need to be absolute leaders. They just need to be strong. However, I believe that the admirals all share unique traits that allow them to be more powerful at fighting large groups of people at once. While part of this has to do with my theory that Logia Awakening has to do with basically just expanding oneself imensely, to the point that one becomes a natural dissaster. However even Fujitora who despite not being a logia user themselves, also has great potential to make widespread massive attacks by calling down meteors.
I'm personally confident that Yonkos are stronger than Admirals individually. But I'm also confident that the Admirals are strong enough that the Yonko has to be serious in order to defeat them.
It would make sense to me if the Admirals were on par with the emperors but that's in a vacuum 1 on 1. The emperors are not alone, you have to include their empires and vast armies, while the Admirals are solo dolo.
thing is we've seen an admiral against yonko commanders twice... akainu against wb commanders and greenbull against king and queen( they were injured but zoan usually heal very quick) and it ended in admirals doing great with less effort also admirals have aoe df, magma df, ice df, light df, all these are very op ngl judging by this an admiral could do fairly well against and a yonko and its crew but this is just my speculation i could be wrong
"solo dolo"? how tf are they solo when they used three admirals, one fleet admiral, five warlords, all vice admirals excluding garp, more than an entire fleet of marine soldiers, against one yonkou and his crew of allies?
I think that honestly comparing Whitebeard at Marineford with what Big Mom did in okigashima you should arrive at the conclusion that Whitebeard had a more impressive performance... This just means to me that Whitebeard even sick was at least around the level of the other yonko People just downplay him too much cause we didnt saw haki pre timsekip maybe
No one used haki there also whitebeard was said to have suffered multiple heart attacks bro was a half dead in the fight already still beat up akainu to a pulp
@@SkyRider4815 1-Everyone used haki we juat didnt saw haki pre timeskip 2-it doesnt matter how sick he was, he still has a better performance than big mom 3-the one who got more wounded after the fight was Whitebeard not Akainu, and Akainu came back to fight the whole crew after that
One Yonko fleet was enough for the WG to call 3 Admirals and all of the Warlords. Another Yonko crew showing up was enough for the WG to call it quits. Obviously it wasn’t as simple as that but comes to the threat level Yonkos pose, I think that answers the question
What you are missing is that, if you are going to fight, you want to reduce the casualties on your side as much as possible... you never plan fights that are extreme Diff if you can midd diff them... that's why they called all the squad. Even marines do so, Garp is probably stronger that Shiki but if you add Sengoku and jump him, you ensure victory without risking Garp to be heavily injured... And Marines successfully did that at the end of Marineford. WB died Ace died No admiral severely injured Kizaru and Aokiji were basically 100%HP
Shank vs the remaining Marines would have been another big fight... They called it a quit cos they accomplished the goal, not because of fear.... Shank vs Mihawk Kizaru vs Beckman Aokiji vs Yassop Akainu vs Lackyroo And Sengoku + vice admirals take care of the rest of the crew cos it's not a fleet Black Beard was there so it would have become a Royal Rumble match.... pointless for all parties cos nobody is coming out clean
That's like saying "Half a Supernova crew was enough to go to a Yonko's territory and rescue one of their crew mates after destroying it and escaped successfully, so that's the threat level half a Supernova crew poses." That's just a double standard that is only ever used against the Navy it seems.
@@MetakJesu07 it sounds like you’re referencing the WCI arc and they went to that territory with the specific purpose of rescuing Sanji while avoiding a full on fight with Big Mom. Nami explicitly reminded Luffy of that and that otherwise they would have brought along strong fighters like Zoro. That’s completely different from the Marines preparing for an actual war with Whitebeard
I assumed admirals are each on yonko level. Since the marines have 3 of them the marines are the biggest dog on the one piece world. Thats why green bull was hyped to be ready to fight in wano However I would see any yonko being stronger than an Admiral but 2 Admiral being able to beat any yonko
The admirals was definitely holding back that was clear from akinu and kuzan fight & kizaru fighting luffy now its as clear as day now that admirals held back
That's like saying Doflamingo's string clones were apart of his awakening. We know very well that it wasn't and the ability to turn his environment into strings was. And if Punk Hazard is any hint to a Logia awakening then it should be on a much larger scale
I think that's Randy's theory too, he's been saying that "sentience" is the logia awakening for a while now, based on how Karasu's logia allows him to create sentient crows. Akainu and Aokiji have also used animal shaped attacks before so it's definitely plausible. I'm 70% sure Randy mentioned this theory to Morj on his last Theory 4 Theory, so he's aware of it. I tried to get the timestamp but it's over 2 hours long so I couldn't find it lol
@@theseeker7692Neither side is tbh, if Kizaru's mission was to take out Luffy then we'd see a truly serious battle but here he's just ignoring Liffy to go after Vegapunk which doesn't allow for a proper fight like in Kaido's case
People should’ve known that Yonkous are stronger than Admirals by simply watching the whole Marineford Arc. It took a whole GOVERNMENT consisting of Admirals, Fodder Marines, Giants, Pacifistas, and Warlords to take down an old, dying Whitebeard.
The issue is that people were seeing, but they definitely weren't watching. If they were they would have seen that even with some of the Navy (not Government) top fighters doing little to nothing like Garp & Sengoku, others like the Admirals disappearing at convenient times or only fighting solo, Warlords doing little more than fighting fodder...the Navy still crushed the best Yonko crew who had nearly half the Warlords helping them with Luffy's group from Impel Down. If anything, out of the 4 fights that WB had with the Admirals, he only ever damaged 1 of them when he attacked them from behind...and he lost nearly half his head despite that while temporarily removing that Admiral from the battlefield. The Admiral still almost accomplished his goal despite WB's interference and would have killed his target (Luffy) if a world class surgeon didn't show up.
The question on Haki vs Devil Fruits is interesting because if Akainu is believed to be one of Luffy's final opponents, then it would answer the question of if having Conqueror's Haki is necessary to be considered among the strongest. Because he'd need to be a good challenge to a version fo Luffy that will presumably have mastered Gear 5 and improved his haki since the Kaido fight. We'll know that being a conqueror is required to be among the strongest if Akainu (and Aokiji by extension) has it or that a powerful Devil Fruit is enough if he doensn't. That's not even mentioning Garp and Sengoku, who were contemporaries to Roger and Whitebeard are the only Marines who are confirmed to be conquerors. It's also not guaranteed that Luffy vs Kizaru will have a definitive winner. Their current mission is to escape the island, not defeat the current Marine fleet. The fight could be derailed by a number of things like the iron giant, Kuma, Saturn, the Seraphim, etc.
I doubt that any of the Admirals is Luffy's final opponent as he already has his hands full at either BB or Imu. Akainu seems to be saved for Sabo's final opponent instead as the implications: Ace and Sabo were considred equals at youth, he has Ace's fruit and it would be considered a "spiritual" rematch if Sabo fights Akainu using the Flame Fruit. Poetic if Akainu beats Ace but Sabo gets revenge for Ace using his powers.
If Luffy was going to fight Akainu in a grudge match he would have been sent to Egghead. I agree with Sabo using Ace's inherited will to fight Akainu being likely. Because of Saturn being at Egghead something huge is going to happen as Luffy is no match for him currently. Law & Kid losing to Emperors they were no match for suggests that Luffy risks a similar loss, although I don't think it will be from Kizaru. I hope The Sunny & her Straw Hats all escape given the parallels to Enies Lobby, Bonnie/Kuma may sacrifice themselves here. As for the path One Piece will take we know Eneru & the Moon will come back, we know the Straw Hats will likely train on Elbaf, we know that there will be a journey to Laughtale, & we know there will be an epic war against The World Government. The order of events & battles that we see are up to our guesses. Hard to see the series being over 5 Years from now & you have to wonder if the Foxy Pirates Arc will forever feel like filler.
The only problem I have with admerials being as strong as Yonko is this 1: Why would 3 admirals and the entire navy have such a problem with whitebeard if each admiral was = to a Yonko. 2. why bother with the balance of power in the world if you could just send 3 admirals to destroy a Yonko crew?
I'll help you a bit. 1. The Marines didn't actually have such a hard time. a - Amongst the main forces of the Marine HQ, none were severely injured, much less dead, whereas the pirates saw their leader die, and three of their main commanders were defeated. b - The war ended in a few hours (2~3 h). A fight between equals can last days in ONE PIECE (5 days for rookie Ace vs Jinbei, and 10 for Sakazuki vs Kuzan). Even in the real world, a group can be a lot stronger than the others without winning instantly (less than 3 hours is still extremely quick), with Russia vs Ukraine as a recent example. c - It wasn't Marines + Warlords vs Whitebeard Pirates. It was most of the Marine HQ (not the entire HQ, much less all of the marines) and 4 Warlords who were actively doing nothing against the Whitebeard Pirates, Crocodile, Ivankov, Jinbei, Luffy, Buggy and many Impel Down escapees. Add that Blackbeard Pirates came in and actively fought against the Marines, it was far more than just an Emperor vs the Marines. d - I know people don't like this argument (Morj doesn't like it either), but the Marines were not going all-out. They only had half of the Warlords, and their half was the least active one. Sengoku and Garp didn't even move for 90 % of the war, and they never actually fought the Whitebeard Pirates. The Admirals don't use any particularly strong move that could affect the entire battlefield like WB did with his very attack (for example, where was the country-sized Ice Age from Aokiji?). e - If Admirals weren't equal to an Emperor, why is it that every time they fought in Marineford, it was a 1v1. None of the Admirals helped each other against Newgate, and it's not like they couldn't. f - Every time an Admiral fought him during the war, it was either an equal clash, or the Admiral left as the better fighter. Kuzan vs still healthy Newgate: they had an equal fight until WB was helped by Jozu (further reinforcing point e - it was never one Admiral vs WB, but it was WB + a Commander vs an Admiral once). Sakazuki vs still healthy Newgate (1): they had an equal fight at first (Akainu even stops an attack from WB with one leg and his hands in his pockets, that's not something you do when you're weaker than your opponent). The tides change when WB has a heart attack and Akainu lands one blow. This is the crucial moment people always forget: Akainu literally leaves the fight because he won. Even though WB didn't die instantly, what was stopping Akainu from landing another hit on his face? Literally nothing, and certainly not the man who was put to his knees. Now obviously, this would not happen if WB wasn't sick, but this truly proves that WB needs to be healthy to actually equal Akainu. Borsalino vs injured Newgate: this time, the clash isn't equal anymore. Kizaru is straight up winning. After casually dodging WB's attack from behind, he easily puts down his bisento and lands a hit on WB. Again, the Admiral leaves without landing a critical blow. We know for a fact that Kizaru has very precise lasers (he hits the key from hundreds of meters away) and can launch many at the same time (Yasakani no Magatama). Sakazuki vs injured Newgate (2): this fight is probably the truly controversial one. Akainu had just ended Ace's life and his only mission now was to kill Luffy since he already dealt with WB before. Before the fight starts, Akainu is already fighting Marco, and WB sneaks behind him, enraged after the loss of his son, hits him with a blow to the head, and Akainu is still up before the page ended. The next panel shows Akainu giving the most lethal blow one can imagine, making WB's death within the next five minutes certain, and he is hit by WB a second time before falling. He comes up less than two chapters later without a lot of injury and solos 13 Division Commanders (including Marco, Vista and Izo), Crocodile (1.9 billion), Ivankov (a founder of the Revolutionary Army) and Jinbei who had been running since even before this fight started, and they can barely slow him down. No, Marinford wasn't a hard fight. 2. Why not end the Emperors? a - Sending 3 Admirals against one Yonko crew would be reckless. It would leave the HQ and Mary Geoise vulnerable to other Yonko crews and the Revolutionary Army. b - The Emperors act as deterrent to other pirates. The World Government can't deal with all pirates, so they leave some to the Emperors so none of them becomes too strong. c - Fighting the Emperors would need a lot of resources. It isn't just about sending your top dog and beating up some enemy. d - Also there's the opposite question: why didn't two Yonko crews or more team up to end the Marine HQ if Admirals weren't as strong as them? e - I believe this is the most important point: the Marine and the World Government don't go to wars they aren't certain to win. Every time they act, they fully believe they are capable of winning. I'll start with the most recent event: Egghead. It is specifically mentioned that Luffy came in as a surpise. The Marine fleet aimed to kill Vegapunk, so they are doing that. Luffy's presence didn't make them change their mind because Kizaru is still fully capable of reaching their goals (Stella's death + the three other goals mentioned in the arc). We quite literally see Kizaru throwing Luffy away and following his objective. As for Wano, Kizaru was completely ready to go and face not one, but two Emperors. The only reason he didn't go was the unknown third party represented by the Samurais. What's worse is they were technically right since the Samurais alliance actually beat the Yonko alliance during Wano. Based on their knowledge, the Samurais are Oden-Ryuma level, and both are equivalent to Emperors. From their point of view, they would have to face 2 Emperors and at least one if not several of characters on that level, without counting the crews. Finally, they brought most of their forces to Marineford for two reasons. They wanted a very clear victory over the Whitebeard Pirates, which they did as explained previously. They also wanted to be prepared in case other forces attacked them, which actually happened with the Impel Down escapees (including 'former' Warlords) and the Blackbeard Pirates, you could count the Red Hair Pirates, Kaido and King as well since the Marines thought they would bring chaos.
1. Large territory needed to conquer means logistics and sht. The admirals may win but the casualties would leave the other side exposed to attacks. 2. Emperors are lucky they hiding at the other wise of the new world
did you not see how roger became the pirate king 😂 he didn’t conquoer anything at all. He stole ponelyghs, plus no pirate at his time cared for the one piece. he travelled the world already failed than oden basically was the reason he became pirate king 😂 He didn’t take anyone down or do anything flashy lil bro 😅 truth hurts doesn’t it, I had higher expectations but laughed once everything got revealed the way it did
@avalac7412 what about rocks and his mates . He fought Garp too many times. Everyone respects him for a reason. The marines went that far to execute ace just because he is his son. You gotta watch another anime if you think Roger isn't strong. Kaido told us that his haki is op. And we saw his divine departure which made Oden confused of the attack. Just standing his ground against prime beard is a feat that proves he is among the strongest.
@@avalac7412It still doesn’t change the fact that Roger was the strongest 🤷🏻♂️ 1. Roger almost one shottet Oden that guy that almost 2 shotted Kaido 2. Sengoku said that Xebec was the strongest enemy Roger had ever faced and Roger defeated him 3. Kaido himself hyped up Roger Haki So get you facts right !!!
I would put the scaling at: - Yonko being (70-100%). With them being the strongest so far, also replace Buggy with Mihawk. - Admirals being (50-80%). Strong enough that not even a Yonko can 1v2 a couple of them and a 1v1 a Yonko needs to get serious. But I'm confident that them being under the WG/Celestials somehow restricts their ACoC assuming they have it. As "will" plays a role in haki, especially conqueror's. Which is why they make up for it by their mastered DF abilities and has top tier Observation/Armament. I think even Old Garp, Rayleigh and Ben Beckman belongs in this tier. - Commanders being (20-50%). The likes of Zoro, Sanji, Kat, King, Queen, Cracker, etc...
@@mrhuman5092 exactly my point, whitebeards crew was not enough to drag the fight out to where admirals are at the point of exhaustion, and aokiji vs akainu only showed aokijis limit. i really think that kizaru could’ve ended marineford but it dragged on for the sake of plot
Even the weird behaviour of Aokiji in Marineford kind of prove it: could dodge Whitebeard via Advanced Observation Haki, but he did let be kicked by Marco, and purposely saved Luffy several times. He was trying the bare minimum. Akainu later overpowering everyone except Whitebeard makes it more evident.
No, all that means is that they were very close to equals. If it ended sooner, one was clearly stronger. No matter how weak or stronger, if they are equal than they technically can fight for a very long time.
@@nick5839no, it is because the admirals hate each other, only akainu did fight and got beaten, because of his overconfidence and people laughing at his face
Oh yeah. Also worth noting is that the *whole* Balance of Power thing seems to entirely exclude the existence of the Revolutionary Army? Like you would think that the army whose entire stated goal is the overthrowing of the World Government, headed by the 'World's Most Dangerous Criminal', would be more included in these calculations.
Yonko vs Admiral has always been a really weird debate to me because if the government had multiple Yonko level fighters ready to go then how could there be any kind of power balance? Just wipe the pirates out. No, Yonko (at least established ones, AKA Whitebeard, Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom) are Yonko because any one of them would require extensive effort from the whole Navy to defeat, maybe someone like Sakazuki can be an exception but you can't have multiple individual marines at that level if you want the system to make any sense.
No, if they want to defeat a Yonko they have to send out at least 2 admirals, which leaves Mariejois with only 2 Admirals making it easy prey for the remaining 3 emperors and the Revolutionary army led by Dragon. It's simply too risky and reckless for the WG.
yeah especially after wb died, if people think admiral >= yonko then they could jump BM with 2 admirals kill her. Kaido ain't doing shit cuz there's still 2 other admirals garp sengoku etc. Then turn their attention to kaido and all out him with 3 admirals...
@@sneedfeed7204they don’t need to send out 2 admirals to fight a yonko.. we literally have seen admirals low diffing yonko commanders and grandfleet members by themselves. One admiral is enough they just need a massive army of soldiers and a couple of vice admirals they’ll be good.
actual smooth brain. the balance of power refers to the world, not government vs the yonko. the balance is the fear and territory the government and the yonko provide and cover, reducing small frys from changing the status quo
There's a reason they call them part of the 3 powers of the world: they balance each other out. Pirates are chaotic power, Admirals are organized power. The warlords (now seraphim) are a neutral power that fits in between these two. While the yonko are strong, they aren't completely organized through uniform training methods like the Admirals underwent with Marine supervision.
At this point in the story, Kizaru is going to have to surprise me to convince me he's anywhere near Kaido's level. I think it's even reflected in how differently the story is depicting their threat level.
@@gfggft345 How did he dismiss Kaido and Big Mom's power? Because of that one chapter? Dude isn't even going all out vs Kizaru currently and the latter is resorting to cheap tactics and attacking Luffy's weaker friends.
Kizaru convinced me at his speed. But for the other stats like haki, physical strength, and durability he has yet to show us anything close to Kaido's level.
@@mstr293 Cheap tactics? In pirateland they fight dirty too. Obviously Kizaru isn't going anywhere near all out so far. Most of his reactions are nonchalant and bored. Compare that to how Kaido reacted to being grabbed by gear 5
Regarding Admiral strength: What makes Admirals tricky to judge is that prior to admirals even being introduced, we didn't really get a good impression of how strong the Marines were. Most marines were seen as annoying pests that chased our protagonists but couldn't actually take care of the actual threats. The fact that the Marines and the Warlords were nominal allies gave the impression that the WG *needed* to rely on pirates. Aokiji is introduced as a strong opponent who easily dispatches the Monster Trio. But we didn't really have a sense of how strong he was at that point; was he as threatening as Crocodile or Enel? As an admiral he's supposed to be much stronger. But the fact that he's a logia fudges things because Luffy would have no chance of hitting him anyway. We are introduced to the concept of the Emperors near the end of Enies Lobby. And they're still pretty mysterious in terms of strength. Powerful enough to rule over their own portion of the Grand Line. We know that Shanks can scare away Sea Kings with a glare. That Shanks and Whitebeard can split the skies with their attacks which is a very unique feat. Luffy is willing to face down three admirals at once at Marineford. He had no chance of winning of course, but I don't think he would do this with three emperors. He only did this way later with Kaidou and Big Mom when he already became much stronger. Oda can always make the admirals much stronger threats later. But narratively speaking, the emperors were often portrayed as forces of nature. Compared to admirals who were more like "Powerful subordinates to the World Government".
Of course Luffy would face down three emperors if they stood in his way when he's trying to save Ace. It doesn't matter how many they are, that's just Luffy, lol.
I personally think that they are relative, with yonko as slightly stronger. I’m okay with that, I just don’t like this notion that admirals are relative to someone like katakuri or king. On a scale of 1-10, if yonko are 10, admirals are 9, and YC’s (on average) are 6.
As we could see that not even the Yonko or the Admirals are equal to their peers (but close), on a scale from 1-10 it should be more like: - Yonko (including Mihawk, excluding Buggy): 7-10 - Admirals (including old Garp/Rayleigh and Beckman): 5-8 - YC Commanders and Vice Admirals (including Yamato, Law, Kidd, some Scabbards and some Shichibukai): 2-5 - Other Powerful Fighters like pre-ts Characters: 1-3 - The rest of the OP Population: 0
As opposed to your score, I refuse to give the Admirals a 9 due to them most likely have problems using their ACoC due to their nature as "WG's Lapdogs" and the "Balance of Power" itself. But 8 is still a good score to high-extreme diff Yonkos with a 7-10 score. The reason for me giving commanders a 5 instead of a 6 is that Kaido and Big Mom seem to be able to 1v2 commander level fighters or more. A "6" would be too much for a lone Yonko to solo as not even Law+Kidd (arguably 4-5 each) was able to overpower Big Mom who could be at 8-9 due to her age at 68 (WB was 72). It took a bomb and her drop to the Earth's mantle to actually beat her.
@@mstr293 the increase in strength is not linear, it’s exponential. 7 would be multiple times stronger than 6, same thing with the rest. So two 6’s would not beat a 9.
@@mstr293 An ex-admiral and a bunch of commanders had to resort to dirty tactics, against old garp. So if a Yonko is a 10, 8 is to high for admirals IMO.
I think the argument unnecessary and it’s easily proven that admirals scale just above yonko commanders but under the yonko themselves. When Kaido mentions the people who can fight on an even footing with him(he mentions shanks, Roger, whitebeard, oden and rocks) he never mentions an admiral. Kaido was even considered “the strongest living creature”. Kaido and big mom literally cannot be damaged with ACOC or something special like that, we know that Kaido and big mom cannot be hurt by pretty much anything else and even falling into lava couldn’t kill them. We also see haki being able to overcome devil’s fruit so freezing them wouldn’t work either, in fact doffy was able to break out of aokiji’s ice and he isn’t even close to yonko level. The reason for the power balance was that there’s 3 admirals and one fleet admiral but only one yonko on each crew plus there used to be 7 powerful warlords such as mihawk who could even challenge the yonko. That along with marines having much larger numbers puts them slightly ahead of a yonko crew
I’m an Admiral fan, but they are not as strong as Yonko. The distance between them is not that great, though. This said, Luffy is currently the weakest Yonko (Buggy not included). Kizaru is the strongest of the current three Admirals, and while he ultimately will lose to Luffy, he’s going to give him one hell of a fight.
@@imawarrior4878exactly idk why these idiots have not realized it by now they have the strongest devil fruits, top tier haki and if oda gives them acoc than the story would be in shambles. the yonko’s already lost (3 of them so far) yet people think they’re stronger 😂 These fools must not watch shounens it’s quite clear at this point that the admirals are stronger.
the context of the story is enough to know that Yonko are greater than admirals - How tf could the Yonko even exist if the marines can just send in a single admiral and thwart them
My view of the Top Tier group of One Piece is pretty simple Fleet Admirals are Yonkou lvl Admirals are 1-2 tier bellow The Yonkou Admirals are 1 tier above or the same tier as Yonkou 2nd in command/ right hand man Sometimes the yonkou crew also have a left hand man that is also 1 tier bellow or same tier as the admirals Marine Army sheer size and tech >> The Yonkou Army/ Grand Fleet numbers and tech Marine army had the better cohesion and discipline, the Yonkou army usually have better individual firepower and strength Core Yonkou Members that are not 2nd and 3rd in command are always around vice Admirals to Admirals lvl Majority of Vice Admirals are 1-2 tier bellow individual allied Yonko captain (Ex. Whitebeard allied pirates captain Squard, Mcguy, Decalvan brothers, etc.) with exceptions like Coby and Garp If the 4 admirals are yonkou lvl they'll organize an invasion to the Yonkou territory ages ago, the reason they don't is that the lack of fire power to take down the head and the massive casualties it'll cause, even if you won againts the Yonkou army, but can't take down the Yonkou it is useless, they'll solo the whole army, also unlike Yonko, Marines had to do more micromanagement and spend more resources on marketing, information control, 5 major enemy 4 Yonkos +1 revolutionary, and many more
i honestly feel like it really depends on which yonko fights which admiral, ive always viewed this topic as a fight that could go either way just really depends on the reason/ motivation cuz rn Luffy is fighting Kizaru to protect his friends yeah then i believe Luffy would win but lets say Luffy fought Kizaru just because he can i dont see Luffy winning atall and this could be the other way around for someone like Blackbeard
After following one piece for a long time, I really think we are gonna take a detour to moon in the next arc before starting the Elbaf arc. There , Ithink we will learn more about the infinite energy source, lunarian race and most probably Uranus. We also have the best person who can develop the technology to travel to moon i.e Vegapunk just like Rayleigh was the best to coat the ship to travel under the sea to Fishman Island.
From a writing standpoint that makes no sense, because all the admirals are on the same team, while each Yonko is an individual entity, so for the whole „balance of power“ thing to make sense each Yonko crew needs to almost be on par with the full marine force. If each admiral was as strong as a Yonko, then the balance of power would be heavily in favor of the marines
@@pokemonrampagemake The balance is very much in favor of the WG, but the WG has a much bigger job to do dealing with pirates, rebels, opposing governments, ruling over an enormous amount of land and people, etc.
@@MrBassem95no it doesnt tell me why the wg doesnt just raid yonko with 2 admirals and a fleet, the admirals jump the yonko easy win then onto the next. if they were equal in power, they could but they aren't so they cant
@@ΚρανίΩwhy would the marines do that? They want to keep the yonko but also keep them in check. If they really want yonko to be gone for good, why would they even replace wb, kaido and big mom when they were defeated in the first place? Remember all this pirates exist because of the corruption of wg.
I guess there are quite some points to consider: 1. Luffy has just awakened his devil fruit. There numerous possibilities he can go with that based only on his imaginations. 2. Luffy's greatest ability is adaptation in any situation. He just hasn't understood Kizaru's ability. Soon as he does, kizaru is gone. 3. Luffy's Armament haki and Observational haki can hit a top notch as Kizaru is as fast as light which can actually improves luffy's vision into the future. 4. It is revealed Kizaru relies most on his devil fruit. Luffy's conquerors haki might define the difference in strenght. Emperors vs Admirals. I believe emperors are stronger as they fight up the ladder. They got to defeat a lot of big names to earn the title. Plus, you got to be on your toes everyday from bounty hunters, marines to even other pirates that want your spot. It isn't the same for the marines with exception being Akainu vs Aokiji and the new introduction of marine bounties, all that they had to do was train till they meet a powerful pirate which could go sideways for them.
@@jeromebranchetti6002 naah I mean starting up as a pirate, you don't have only the marines to fight rather other pirates and bounty hunters too. Unlike marines, if they stay at their base, they have no one to fight. Hence the reason most of them are fodder. Their of their devil fruits are handed to them. Just like CP9
Instead of fighting they just used their DF to make the battlefield look cool and called it a day. Cesar 🤡 declared Akainu the winner 🏆 so Aokiji got depressed and lost a leg because he wanted to be like normal people who just have 2 legs so he decided to cut one...
I think its possible that this would also be a chance to differentiate the current admirals to Akainu and Kuzan (and maybe fujitora), who might actually have enough ambition to have conquerer's haki, but i still wouldnt bet money on that
I would place Blackbeard among others too. They guy just doesnt take risks, but he has been acknowledged by plenty of strong ones- Shanks, Rayleigh...if Aokiji is a spy then it stands to reason that he too cant defeat Blackbeard 1v1
If Kuzan is both a spy and stronger then Blackbeard then I don’t see why he wouldn’t have eliminated him and the crew. Either he isn’t a spy or he is not confident about beating Blackbeard.
I feel like Shanks now is closer to the Whitebeard and Roger level than the yonko of kaido and big mom. It would make him getting to marineford so quick and stopping it make even more sense
The fact that a certain someone who got oneshot by Shanks was previously throwing hands with the other two you mentioned does support that claim. Like, Kaido and Big Mom had to *fight* him, while Shanks just went 'Divine Departure' and it was over.
13:21 I’m convinced a logia awakening permanently changes the environment which is why they didn’t awaken at Marineford. I think it’s always daytime at Enies Lobby because at some point in history the user of Kizaru’s fruit awakened there. Wouldn’t surprise me if Aokiji and Akainu both awakened at Punk Hazard which is why two years later the island still looks like that.
Great Video! I love how you addressed the balance of power video argument. This is something Admiral Stans always ignore even though there is abundance of context about it in the story.
@@alecasare5425 After WB died though, and it was still just a rumour among the people, not official like WB's intro. Before that, everyone and their grandma said WB was stronger like Morj pointed out. Big Mom placed him over Kaido & Shanks, for example.
I thought balance of power being a circle or triangle was obvious that its not Marines vs All yonkos, but Marines vs Yonko 1 vs Yonko 2 .. and so on, and admirals are needed in case Yonko 1 teams up with Yonko 2, not just for fighting a single yonko, and balance means its tilted in favor of WB, not an actual balance..
The OG 3 admirals were always just slightly under yonko, with akainu being yonko level post timeskip. However greenbull/fujitora are still certified BUMS and bringing the admiral name down.
@@boredtodeath491 Being helpless against doflamingo is an embarassment. Can you imagine replacing him with big mom or kaido and just dying to bird cage? That thought is ridiculous to even think about
That means you consider them to be the same level then, since Akainu took 10 days to defeat another Admiral. Separating such a difference as 98 to 100 is so small to not really matter.
As always, I think Oda showed us pretty clearly with bounties. Yonko usually have a bounty of 3-5 Billion, while an Admiral has a bounty of 3 billion. So yeah, Admirals could be Yonko, they could beat a Yonko, but all things considered, they stack up to Yonko they same way a 2nd or 3rd Yonko commander stacks up to a 1st commander.
How though? The bounty system is by the WG, then there's a bootleg system by Cross Guild that doesn't compare. It doesn't work when CG just gives bounties by rank with a month old system, while the actual bounty system is decades old with multiple factors involved. You'd have to say that Whitebeard is stronger than Shanks by the same distance that Shanks was stronger than Kid since there's1 billion in between their bounties.
@@MetakJesu07 There's false evaluations like Law and Kid, and that all factors into the clever tool narrative tool that the bounty system is, to tell us the general ballpark of characters power/danger level. We know that Law and Kid couldn't have defeated Big Mom without a ringout, so its clear their real bounties would be in the 2 MIL range, which is less than Blackbeard, but close which is why Law can put up an okay fight against him. But Blackbeards bounty is no longer accurate too my guess, which is why his next bounty will either reflect his strength more closely or be inflated again by another grand scheme. See how bounties never accurately imply the level, but are a nice guideline to feel out the ballpark of a character's strength. Why else would characters like King and Queen have so similar bounties, but to tell us that Sanji and Zoro are fighting opponents of very equal standing. Oda rn has no other reason to give the Admirals a bounty of 3 BIL other than to show that they can hold their own against Yonko and Yonko-wannabes. Every bit of information we have is a narrative tool. If bounties were as useless and inaccurate as everyone says, why would Oda bother so much...
Honestly, I always thought Yonkos were more powerful than admirals. In Marineford, Whitebeard basically slapped Akainu while being in weakened state. However, I think 2 admirals would probably be able to beat a single Yonko.
Why is that? Why did you pick 1 fight out of the 4 in Marineford and use only that to judge? The only fight where WB attacked an Admiral from behind, and still lost nearly half his head despite that too. Or maybe you only watched the anime they added to that 4th fight? It seems that that's the main way that a lot of people formed their opinion.
@@MetakJesu07 Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember any other fight between a Yanko and an admiral (except Shanks stopping Akainu with his sword). After Akainu killed Ace, Whitebeard absolutely stomped him into the ground and although Akainu eventually got up again and retaliated, it felt like he had no chance. Had he not had support from other Marines and had Whitebeard not been wounded by the guy who backstabbed him earlier, I think he would have crushed Akainu, even with his disease and old age. Their fight honestly felt like a draw but Akainu had so many advantages on his side so it was unfair in my opinion. My memory might be a little foggy since I read this part of the manga 2 years ago, but this is how I remember their interaction.
@@SmookieYT WB fought Aokiji. He also fought Kizaru, and then there's the 2 fights with Akainu. That makes 4. Oh, maybe you watched the anime? They added a bunch of filler and changed a bunch from WB & Akainu's 2nd fight. In the manga, WB attacks Akainu from behind with a quake to the head. Akainu then retaliates by melting off nearly half his head. WB then hits him again with a quake that splits the island, forming a chasm that Akainu falls into. Akainu then burrows his way underground to cut off Jimbe who had been escaping with Luffy the entire time. That is definitely not a "stomp", considering WB received a fatal injury to temporarily remove Akainu from the battlefield. And why did you think 1 stab from Squardo made such a difference? Anyway, even with just that 1 injury, Akainu stopped an attack from WB with 1 foot and his hands in his pockets, so nothing suggests that would have been easy for WB either. He lost that one because his illness started acting up, so Akainu put a hole in his torso. They both couldn't just let loose, and it was actually Akainu that was telling WB to stop destroying the place as well.
One thing you could argue with Yonkou is that the World government allows or even encourage them as an unofficial arm in the New World. The world government allowed Kaido to operate in Wano partially because he would extract resources like seastone and Wano-made weapons.
In what sense do you mean „allow“? We were shown quite clearly that the only reason the beast pirates lost was because they were caught off guard and could not use their weaponry or army in an optimal manner, but the alliance only found this information by being on Wano, the world government had almost no information on Wano, so even if they wanted to take Kaido down they would have had to sacrifice 90% of the marines including all the heavy hitters to do so Remember Kaido was fully intending on crashing the reverie and attacking the celestial dragons, so the marines certainly weren’t letting him do anything, they just genuinely couldn’t beat him on his home turf. The balance of power basically dictated that in an even battle (no ambush) every big player would win on their home turf
@@pokemonrampagemakelol it’s always funny hearing them say they allow the Yonko to reign. They are 4 powerful pirates with empires that ruled for decades as emperors. You just don’t allow criminals to rule like that. Part of the reason is they really couldn’t do anything about it. Too many risk involved on their part. Also what haloed them out is the 4 emperors are not one allied forces. They are all individuals fighting each other
One of the most annoying thngs the Fandom has done is ranking people by "yonko Level" and "Admiral Level". Why would the strongest Marines be below yonko level. It just doesn't make sense for them to be weaker. THe answer should be easy. They're roughly similair in strength. Its that simple
The problem with the admirals is that they haven’t done anything that impressive yet. We’ve seen akainu burn people and we’ve seen Kizaru be fast, that’s literally the bare minimum of what we should expect from them.
Punk Hazard was pretty impressive. Aokiji and Akainu fighting nonstop for days and changing the island to half-ice-age half-volcanic-wasteland with a lake in the middle that's the crater formed by their fight.
@@WheatDosit's devil fruit based, luffy split the sky with his haki by himself, like that's something a nuke can't do and before you say the anime isn't cannon ,you need check in the manga when the moon was visible
Yup, also it didn't seem like much of a contest between Akainu and Whitebeard. Like, Whitebeard was half-dead and super old and he still easily wrecked Akainu with one hand. Also, Akainu seemed terrified when Shanks easily blocked his punch and it doesn't seem like Akainu would've been able to do much against him. He certainly didn't seem confident. And it did seem like top tier Yonko commanders like Marco could hold their own against admirals.
My assumption prior to Egghead was that the admirals are like current Kidd/Law level. Individually they can beat people like Zoro, King, Marco, and Katekuri pretty handily but are not at the level of the Emperors. Basically as easy as it would be for Kizaru to beat Marco I thought it would be for Kaido to beat Kizaru. Now with the fight that Kizaru is putting against gear 5 Luffy it seems like the gap is much closer. On the other hand there’s still time for Luffy to say he hasn’t been using conquerors or any of his advanced Hakis and then turn the tide quickly.
I'm thinking the reason the admirals all seem to have busted fruits is because they aren't capable of supreme king haki due to their subservient nature that comes with their position.
Fantastic video, here’s to hoping the major question of Adv conq vs logia awakening gets answered. I’m getting cold shivers thinking about how Kaido never used awakening lol
At Marineford the one who was holding back was whitebeard as he couldn't unleash the true power of gura gura no mi due to his crew being present there .
The balance of powers was : Marine, Shishibukais(representingWg) and yonkos . According to some that meant Marines+ Shishi= 1yonko and to others Marinesand Shishi=4yonkos now that we knows that just the alliance of 3Shishi is seen as yonko level (crossguild) the only logical explanation for the balance of power is Marine+Shishi =4Yonkos
I think it's clear the OG yonko were just built stronger, they were born with great potential, while the admirals are strong but mostly they have broken ass DFs. And that's no coincidence.. the government only recruits broken DFs to admiral
Everything was unbiased until 7:20 in which you claimed that the world gouverment was forced to gather all to fight of a Yonko crew. At that time we thought that was a huge battle but hundreds of chapters later power reveals fights and potrails later we can clearly see that Marineford was completely one sided and not even a serious war to begin with. At that time people thought the likes of Jozu and Marco could hang with the admirals and as of right now we clearly can understand that that’s not even a discussion anymore. Marineford was story telling it was a set up for Ace death it was building hype and tension but it was never close. We had one single Admiral going aerious (and even holding back to defend Marineford) while we had dead bodies on the side of the Yonko crew left and right. Marineford was Akainu vs an entire Yonko crew sick or not WB was still called an emporer and could fight them off. So pls stop taking Marineford as an example to promote your Yonko agenda. You are also the same person who said Luffy sensing Kizarus strength would make no sense as you never scaled and respected the admirals in the first place. If the previous strongest marines and admirals could hang with Roger Shiki and WB why would this era which surpasses the old have such weaklings in comparison? From a narrative standpoint and potrail wise the admirals are on paar some are stronger some are weaker but they are on the same level no matter how hard you guys try to downplay them. Greenbull was scared by Shanks entire crew ok fine and Blackbeards entire crew was scared off Akainu and Aokiji.
I was always under the impression that the navy gathered so much power all because of whitebeard himself. It was just in case whitebeard wasn't sick and could fight like his old self. When they realized he was sick and old it was easy to deal with. Also his fruit was a problem seeing how they didn't want him to sink marineford.
Yeah I was agreeing with him until he started talking about marineford. there is definitely a slight bias in the video like him leaving out Akainu comments abt him trying to stop whitebeard from destroying marineford. It wouldn’t make sense for akainu to use his full power and turn the environment into a harsh volcanic setting when that would only cause more unnecessary casualties on the marine side and destroy what he is obviously trying to protect. Akainu is cruel but he’s not stupid enough to destroy an island with 100,000 marines on it.
No, that's not what I said. I phrased it very specifically, based on exactly what we were told in the manga: I said the World Government *feels* like they need to assemble all their forces to *confidently* put down a Yonko crew. I phrased it that way because that is what characters expressed in the manga. If I were to be "biased" and actually put forward my personal opinion and power scale this myself, I would say that the Marines could have taken down the whitebeard pirates and their allied forces without all their forces. I don't even know why the hell they invited the Shichibukai, who were entirely unnecessary. However, my opinion is irrelevant, if I were to put forward my opinion *that* would be bias. The goal of analysis is to be unbiased, which is why I am only putting forward exactly what the characters themselves expressed throughout the arc, and the measures they actually chose to take. Whether you like it, or whether it makes sense to you or not, it doesn't matter. Canonically the fact is they felt that this level of force was necessary to confidently put down a Yonko crew, with even Sengoku announcing before the war started that even with all their forces brought to the table, they may still lose. It's how the story was written, so that's what has to be presented in the video.
@@MrMorjI mean your whole text is about Marineford but I said more than that didn’t i? The story also called Garp and Sengoku as equals or rivals to Roger and WB why don’t you mention that is that headcanon? Are they not marines not admirals? Do they not count? And if they do why would Oda write the current one who fight in a way worse pirate era so much weaker? Didn’t Oda say that the marines are stronger than ever under Akainu? And if Akainu is on that level (which he 1000% is) than Aokiji is not far off meaning we have at least 2 who are easily able to take on Yonkos. You have no problem to say that Garp is on Rogers level or Sengoku yet you make a whole video ignoring everything the admirals did and how they are portrait by Oda just to say Kizaru and Luffy shows who’s stronger? And you say you’re not biased? You always talk about logic you always say this and that makes no sense how does it make sense that the previous strongest marines fight off the strongest in the verse but the current can’t even scale themselves to the current Yonkos and every current yonko you scale below Roger WB and Garp. Tell me how that makes sense? Luffy surpasses Roger but every enemy in the marines is weaker than him because he has the title of a yonko? Big Mom stronger than Sengoku in his prime? You would never say that but you have such a hard time to say the likes of Aokiji or Akainu would beat her. And all this Haki nonsense you act as if Admirals purely depend on Devil fruit although they showed advanced types of Haki pre and post time skip. Also having conqueres Haki or advanced conqueres does not make you automatically stronger than devil fruit users for example Yamato she has it and attacked Greenbull yet he tanked it and was completely fine and would 100% crush her and everyone else if Shanks didn’t interfere. How about that? It’s the mix the levels of all types of Haki which surpasses all not only conqueres Haki. And Marineford like i said was story telling hype building and tension Sengoku screaming that out loud made us readers at that time think that it’s very dangerous but in reality it really wasn’t a match. Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Aokiji Kizaru all these monsters ready to fight you really think they wouldn’t be able to take on Kaidos crew aswell? Even Shanks and his entire crew would get annahilated if it wasn’t for his connection with the world gouverment and Sengoku stopping the war. Just stop it the Admiral downplay needs to end it’s just embarrassing how hard you guys try
Are you sure about that brother? Are saying that if Shanks and his crew were also at Marineford during the war, that they along with Whitebeard’s crew wouldn’t be able to destroy Marineford and all the marines there?
@carlosnunes929 no they wouldn't. How would they? Unless you think the Wano alliance in its entirety is stronger than the Marines then hell no. The Wano Alliance won against two emperors. The Marines are stronger than the alliance lol.
Wano alliance eventually beat 2 yonko and a single empire...also more than half the said empire (beast pirates) switched sides and supported the wano alliance.
@@chaitanyaravisankar2330 so what? The strongest Yonko crew at the time couldn't defeat the Marines even though they had the help of the main character, the revos, sabotage by the warlords, etc...
