I know people will give me crap for this but i think based on other missions with Micah he has good situational awareness and very fast reflexes so tbh i think he still woulda been fine the slippery bastard
@@ghostthaking7981 Yea I reckon the second that door opens he would put a bullet each into the two guards, he is using his two double actions after all gives him more speed but less accuracy but that close he’d be fine.
Lenny's death is literally the phrase "live fast and die young." There wasn't no cutscene, no monologue, no big speech. It all happened within a second, just like how death can happen in a second in real life. But in his final moments, he knew who cared for him and who didn't or at least fake it. Arthur even writes in his journal about him while looking sad in further cutscenes. That's why he looks tired along with TB. He lost two brothers and a father figure at this point, and now he's losing himself unless he redemption himself rather than red dead the world around himself.
Lenny's death is somewhat hinted at early on. When Arthur and Lenny rob Cornwall's train, he rushes ahead and will die if you don't save him. This time Arthur wasn't fast enough, likely because the TB started to make him slower.
@@rijulchhabra1725 I hated Sean's death, because at the beginning I thought he was the most annoying character, then after the train robbery and the tobacco fields missions he started rubbing off on me. I said to myself "You know I'm really starting to like Sean." then seconds later- BANG.
The worst part of Lenny's death is you're still in WTF mode from Hosea's death, that first playthrough anyway. Dutch cares, but he knows stopping for a memorial would kill the rest of them
I know, this game had no chill when it came to deaths from inside your gang. I remember pausing the game for like 10 minutes when Kieran died cause of how shocked I was.
That’s what makes it more impactful too. Like someone else said here in the comments, death is so sudden and we don’t get any moment to really process Lenny and Hosea’s death until after it’s all settled down. RDR2 is gonna live for a loooong time with just how amazing it is
@@IBeMelissa I don't believe Dutch "lost" anything. Dutch, from the beginning, had ulterior motives. The gang were not more than pawns to him. During chapter 4-6, an exit begins to become clear to him, and he takes it with no regard for those who he may lose in the progress. Dutch always expressed a want for an escape, and Micah presented him with one.
You might think that Dutch cared not for Lenny's death, but just hear the voice in him when he said "Oh Goddamn them". He legit actually got hit and surprised with the sudden death of the young boy but can't do much since he is leading the gang to escape.
Yeah a lot of people think Dutch is such a simple character but he istn't It's not like he's a sociopath just wanting to be a leader of the gang. He got an idea that want to be realised but eventually is too blind to see it cannot be made.
People have a hard time appreciating grey characters and Dutch is the most grey character in the game. Arthur- “Usually he’s the best man I know” he was a victim to the changing of the times. The age of outlaws was ending
@@KanoSJ finally someone says it. Dutch is the definition of shades of grey. Too many people think that everything in the game is black and white. Truth is there’s no good guys and bad guys in the game. The game shows us violent gangs and rich corrupt businessmen. The grey area is the most intriguing part of the game
@@thegaspoweredjohnnyjohn3972 where did I say or act like grey characters are a new thing? I just see in threads and play throughs that people don’t appreciate Dutch as a character and just see him as a villain
Arthur: Heartbroken, lost a brother Charles: Shocked and Heartbroken Javier: Sad and Shocked Bill: Could care less Micah: who cares Dutch: cares but needs to stay focused
@@Strangeminds38 Javier stops for a bit too. He doesn’t lean down, but he definitely stops for about as long as Charles. The only reason he continued as quick as he did was because he was in the back, and nothing more. If he continued to stop he could’ve been left behind.
Javier had some of the best character development out of the 2nd game. (Duh, he was one of the only originals, I know) it’s moments like this that show he does care for others in the gang, a lot. But he couldn’t stand up to Dutch even at the end. My mental canon is he probably started doing opium to cope after everything went down. Stuff was everywhere and barely regulated back then. His RDR1 persona is very much like someone who’s been doing drugs for years. It’s also this brief moment that makes me believe him when he tells John he loved him as family. He just didn’t love him more than himself. Outlaw to the end.
Lennys death was so out of the blue it blasted a hole through my heart. You barely had time to process that lenny is gone before u had to start running for your life again
Javier looked at Lenny,and tried to touch his shoulder in grief like the others,but he looked back at Dutch and like a inferior walked away rapidly. This tells about Javier's character,he is a good person at heart,but his extreme loyalty to Dutch makes him do bad decisions and walk away from his friends.
@@jmbmntis no, he is right, Charles touched his shoulder and then ran away, Javier didn't get to even look for more than 2 seconds then looked at dutch and started to run away
@@Chad_Milk no no no, he's actually right, it's Javier who turns around for a second before running after Dutch. Charles is the one who pauses and touches Lenny before continuing. Hope this helps
Dutch's voice tells you he is devastated, but he's also still somewhat Dutch at this point, and realizes he has the rest of the gang to worry about, and can't stop to mourn Lenny or else the rest will die, too.
@@saintedcookie5817 Yeah, thats because Hosea was a pivotal important character, while Lenny was just unimportant DEI hire to have a black guy in the gang for the diversity boxes, then get rid of him quietly as he always was a filler.
Lenny and Kieran was for sure the one who would have sided with Arthur and John. You can't be too certain about Sean but Lenny and Kieran saw what was happening to the gang.
Javier- mostly cared Arthur- cared a lot Micah 🐀- didn’t care Dutch- cared more about gang Charles- cared Bill 🏳️🌈- didn’t care Hosea- 🪦 John- arrested
Bill I also believed cared, even though he didn't show it in this scene. Remember these guys are running for their lives from the cops, and if you look back on Bill and Lenny's relationship in the early game, they were great friends.
Damn, during my first playthrough Arthur screaming "No! Lenny!" got my eyes in tears and my blood cold. I loved that character, such a shame his death was so quiet
Did anyone notice near the end when they are at the last campsite and are all pointing guns at each other. Dutch says you're either with me or against me. Javier is the only one that points his gun straight up and not at anyone. In Red Dead one when John catches Javier he mentions that moment to john.
He actually does point his gun at them, he just takes the longest and moves the slowest. But he slowly lowers the gun down until he points it directly at them.
@@bignick2k215 and interestingly enough, this wasn't intended at all. javier's VA fought for the character moment where javier hesitates unlike the rest, because he found it very hard to believe that the javier in RDR2 would happily point a gun at his brothers. ultimately, i think it was a good decision, but it makes some of the chapter 6 camp scenes a bit jarring since there are some scenes where javier is plotting with micah and whispering about arthur.
Bill and Micah were both racist and had no respect for Lenny Charles was grieving for a second, Javier looked back in shock You could hear the pain and shock in Dutch’s voice “Oh Goddamn them or Oh God No” and then he said there’s nothing we can do now Arthur we have to go. Arthur wanted to just grieve for Lenny for another minute and then he had to go So Bill and Micah were the only two idiots that didn’t care about Lenny
yeah didn't like Bill either I think he's the same as Micah at least Javier wasn't killing inccoint people and terrifying the resident in red dead 1 but bill have killed a lot of inccoint people who where just farmers trying to get by Bill is nothing but a cowred and really hated him
There are some moments when Bill shows good vibes with Lenny... When you are with the band hiding in the snow, Lenny makes a joke about celebreating Micah's death, and Bill laught with him and tell him that he is right.... That shows some lil good vibes... And also Bill and Javier are good friends
One of the most effective scenes in the entire game. I had really glommed onto Lenny, viewed him as almost a surrogate for the son Arthur lost. So them putting his death in an in game event where I could shoot the guy first but couldn't save Lenny was brutally effective. I restarted that mission over and over trying to save my boy because I felt I let him down. Then I realized that was exactly how they wanted me to feel. Such a phenomenal game.
Maybe this will be a very unpopular idea and it's understandable BUT. What if when Arthur had low honor when Lenny died he just ran off instead of having that moment of mourning?
I’m on my god knows how many play through with low honour. During the escape, I’ll just simply walk, chill and have poor Lenny die. Kill the 2 bastards then place them beside Lenny and throw a molotov to burn em.
We already know from camp events and such that Micah and Bill are racists so they probably didn’t care for him but I was kind of surprised that in Chapter 4 after Lenny’s skill in the Trolley mission that he didn’t care enough to look at Lenny
Didn't Bill and Lenny became friends? Like theres that one event where Bill tries to tell everyone about Lenny's accomplishment? Then theres a bank job where Bill, Lenny and Karen robs the bank in valentine?
Bill is racist by instinct but not by thought. Once Lenny sticks up for himself and does some gang shit, Bill changes his tune, same with Charles I believe, and starts being more friendly.
I never wanted to kill all the people the game tell you to. But the second Lenny got shot it was my life's mission to ensure every Pinkerton and Lawman I saw died by my hand
I think this simply showed who was more emotional, everyone was upset at this but others were more focused on keeping their own lives than stopping for what couldn’t be changed after happening
This was definitely one of the saddest moments in RDR2, what really gets me is how suddenly it happened. I'm on chapter 6 currently and I have to say it's one of the best games I've played in a long time. Found it kind of hard to focus on the story for a while due to the sheer size and scale of the game but my god it's an experience once you start taking it seriously.
Red dead redemption 2 is a masterpiece, one of the best games I've ever played I hope you've enjoyed every second of it, because it can only be experienced once, so make sure it's worth it
I remember my first playthrough and this happened, I was jumping on the roofs feeling numb and still reeling from Hosea and now Lenny. When the surviving gang members eventually found a room they could hide in, I was still in shock. It happened so fast.
Having played RDR, I came into this game expecting to hate Dutch, Bill and Javier. But they were given such excellent writing, acting, and nuance that it both made sense with what wd know of them from RDR, but also made them compelling and likeable characters. You find yourself happily listening to Javier play the guitar and singing in camp, looking forward to robbing a stage with Bill, and perfectly understanding why all those people were happy to follow Dutch. RDR2 doesn't suffer from the traditional prequel problems. They managed to make us adore characters that we knew would be villains and antagonists to our beloved John. GTA6 has huge shoes to fill, being the game coming after the excellent and most profitable piece of media ever GTA5, and possibly the greatest example of storytelling yet found in video games in RDR2.
when I went through this I was already in full on murder mode with Hosea dying but when lenny died I was stunned like I did all I could to protect everybody and couldnt even save the kid on front of me, I even used deadeye to try and save him hopefully saving him in the last second but damn when he died he hits the hardest and when everybody moved on by I was screaming inside my head "DID YOU GUYS EVER STOP AND LOOK BACK EVEN FOR A MOMENT TO SHOW YOU CARE!?" as Arthur was sitting there for Lenny
Charles stopped briefly with Arthur then ran Javier looked back horrified and went along Dutch had pain in his voice when he yelled "GODDAMN THEM" The only 2 racist pricks that didnt stop Micah and Bill
While Hosea acted like a father figure for Lenny, sharing rare moments of bonding, like fishing, hunting, etc. Arthur acted somewhat of an older brother, ironically engaging in more adult activities, i.e drinking, five finger fillet, poker, dominoes, so it’s difficult to say whom was hurt the most by his death,
Am I weird for getting annoyed that arthur didn't drop down at the end of the video? Little things like that when I play piss me off. It takes away from the amazing immersion you have from this game.
Man, anyone else play through this game again and realize how good of a character Javier was? Like in the first game I thought he was one of the bad guy if the gang, but after this one I think he’s actually one of the better members, downs I earth, and cares about the others.
when you play five finger fillet with Lenny at chapter 2 he says that he is the living embodiment of luck then when he died here everything was downfall for the gang
It looked like Arthur and Javier cared the most because Arthur runs right over to him to check if he's ok and Javier looks back and slows down a moment to check up on him but realises he's dead and keeps moving it sucks how Javier was to scared to stand up against Dutch but he truly cares for Arthur and John more than he did for Dutch he just didn't want to die
@@ThisIsJustARandomHandle even most bad guys have feelings. Even micah had a brother he cared about. But his brother knew what a crazy and dangerous man he is
@@Heisen_burger-dude yeah, that's honestly true, and there were subtle signs that Javier didn’t exactly feel right about being on Dutch’s side, like when he made sure his gun wasn’t pointing at John and Arthur.
Jaiver genuinly cares for almost everyone in the gang and the only reason his seen as a bad guy is becuase he sided with dutch and the reason he did was because dutch pretty much saved him and he was loyal to him.
Out of ALL the guys who sided with Dutch, Javier earns my respect. He might not have stopped to grieve over Lenny, but he never pointed his weapon during the standoff at Beaver Hollow, and I feel like that's enough proof that he still found the gang more as a family than a lifestyle. He also wasn't with Dutch, Micah, Bill, or Micah's two goons while chasing after John and Arthur.... at least the cutscene doesn't show him in it, so I feel like he genuinely wasn't apart of that specific chase. Also makes me feel better than in RD1 you can have a choice whether to kill him or not.
I really dont understand why this is pointed out soooo much.. Javier in fact WAS about to point his gun at the two.. There wasn´t just enough time to finish this movement. People getting so exited over something that in fact isn´t true. Javier is a Dutch-loyal person.
@@skylinesenpai5554 What...? At the beaver hollow standoff Javier doesn't point his gun... the voice actor literally is on a panel talking about how he was fighting to keep that in the game... idk wherever you got that "not enough time to finish the movement" idea but you're wrong... its also on the RDR2 wiki
@@NBAnoScope Just a moment before they get interrupted you can cleary see how Javier slowly starts pointing his Gun towards John and Arthur. It dont really takes a close look to see that. Put me a link of said interview with Javiers voice actor if thats really the truth. Im curious.
@@NBAnoScope Okay wow i didnt knew that. Which makes me even more confused about that cutscene because for me the last one or two seconds before they get interrupted it really looks like Javier slowly lowers his Gun pointing it to Arthur and John.
I honestly wasn't sure if Lenny's death was scripted or could be prevented so for a few minutes I was WRACKED with guilt cuz I thought I was too slow to save him
@@user-hx6gs9rq7u they have one conversation in the entire game and it’s Lenny trying to start a conversation and Charles rudely shutting him down and saying how he doesn’t like when people talk unnecessarily
After all, we can see Javier Was Still A good Person, Of course He made mistakes Between Rdr2 final and rdr1 mid, But this scene shows How He Still cared for lenny death, But his loyality to dutch made Him fall at The darkness
Everytime I get to this part in my play throughs I always am so regretful playing the story again🤣. Literally 2 of my favorite characters killed back to back in a row. Hosea then Lenny.
the worst thing in this entire game is that you cant save lenny. i mean the perpetrators are fully shootable if you're fast enough or know it ahead of time and they could've made lenny another person who hanged out with john in the epilogue and eventually left like charles and sadie but no, of course lenny has to die. >:(
I think i saw 3 people stop. Obviously Arthur stopped, but Charles and Javier slowed down too, Charles coming to a complete stop and Javier just slowly moving backwards as to pay respects but also because they have to move. My conclusion is that Arthur, Javier and Charles are the only 3 with a heart for LENNYYYYYYY.
Arthur's desperate "NO!!!" Really hits hard... 😢 It's like he was pleading for them to not shoot their youngest member, I can't even imagine how much was going through Arthur's head in that moment
When Lenny dies, Bill and Micah completely ignore it while Javier slows a little, showing hesitation before following Dutch. When Dutch betrays Arthur and John, Micah and Bill have guns leveled and ready to kill while Javier can’t bring himself to fully aim at them, though still standing against them and following Dutch.
As surprising as it is for low honor Arthur to have the most gut wrenching 'NO, LENNY!!' (As opposed to high honor 'You sons of b*tches!') It shows that, high or low honor, Arthur loved Lenny as his closest family than most in the gang. The emotion is REAL.
What's surprising here is the tie and vest Arthur is wearing are red implying this is Low Honour Arthur. Yet you can hear the devastation in his voice when he says "No! Lenny!" and when he approaches Lenny's body. Low or High, he cared about Lenny like his brother either ways.
arthur was always loyal even at his most dishonourable so it makes sense that he feels some emotional connection to his gang mates no matter what - his redemption and the high honour ending are more about embracing loyalty to people and trying to help those around you just because its the right thing to do, not just blind fealty to a collective or idea
Arthur: Collapses next to Lenny, near tears. Charles: Stops to check for a pulse then returns to the current task. Micah, Dutch, and Bill: Fuck him let's split! Javier: Knows he's dead, saw the whole thing, still looks back, but ultimately he's out for himself so he never stops.
This video game played with my emotions so good, i dont think any book or movie, or any sort of media ever made me feel like this, walking a mile in Arthur Morgan’s boots changed me
Arthur was to Lenny like Hosea was to Arthur when he was growing up. You could see how much Arthur cared about Lenny throughout the story. After they attack the Lemoyne Raiders at Shady Belle Arthur gives him a ton of encouragement telling him he’s gonna move up in the gang and that he always likes riding with Lenny. There’s side dialogue too, when Micah gives Lenny shit Arthur says to Lenny that if Micah gives him any more trouble to let him know. Also, if you get Arthur drunk he says to Lenny at camp “I like you kid and I don’t like most people” It’s just so heartbreaking this happened to Lenny. He was super smart and intellectual, he’d challenge Dutch on his philosophy from Evelyn Miller and was always reading. But most importantly, he was loyal & honest and a true friend to Arthur
People complaining why Lenny didn't have a cutscene. I think this was on purpose. At this point you are playing through the eyes of Arthur. They wanted you to feel helpless and make you feel like a rat, running across the roofs and away from danger. I remember doing this for the first time, I was running through the roof and all I can think of is regret. I was thinking if I could've save Lenny.
I kept having a feeling Lenny was going to die but really hoped he wouldn't. I more or less knew it was bound to happen but still felt like I was in shock when it did.
I think that Lenny's death is very similar to the death of many well-known characters, whether in the world of games or even in the world of acting in films and series. But what really hurts us is that the rest of the group are not giving a shit about the death of one or more of them. All for one and one for all.. that's what I've learned. On the other hand, Micah is the biggest rat ever existed.
Dutch really cared and he got hit hard mostly twice he mostly got mental block after hosea died and right after that lenny dies so Dutch is probably panicking and couldn't focus but to escape but he really cares.
When Arthur kneels down, I was in such shock that it felt like I was kneeling with him. It took me a second to realize, oh yeah I'm in control and Arthur has to move. It felt fitting. I loved Lenny and I hadn't even had a chance to mourn Hosea yet. Oof. What an absolute masterpiece of a game. Playable art.
