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Your issued interceptor ESAPI plates also didn’t offer any protection against direct fire to your head and shoulders when you were in the prone. But that’s not what the conversation is about.
Not really, they make offset sights, for a reason and when you are using them you will be low with cover like a trench or behind a stump. Please call me a booger eater, Better than dead because you have no experience or have a low IQ. BTW I am not saying he is wrong in this video, About finding cover. Just saying, this guy has not slugged it out in the trenches of Ukraine and I am sure he could learn a lot. Heck, I hope, I do not become a know it all. I think they call that death or something.
Amen. It’s mid-April 2024 and I can’t get the typical mc’merican man to read a 300 page book to better understand the train wreck that’s coming right at us. Everyone thinks there’s this “guerrilla war” right around the corner and there well may be. But most people need to start with “I need to drop 40 pounds and be able to jog a mile”
@behindthespotlight7983 Shame dense attitude here in Britain except here, they won't listen to former infantryman on how to set up militias, etc. Let's just say, it'll be their funeral if they don't listen and learn.
@behindthespotlight7983 agree on the weight, but honestly, walking for miles with some 500 yard dashes is more realistic in many part of the US... at least here in my area of central Texas.
@@flopus7 Yes you are. You are not supposed to do standard infantry movements down linear paths but if you come across one and need to cross it, you need to run across it. Atleast this is what I was trained to do in the USMC.
New Mexico for ya..except the mountains. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 6:23
Lol, you know how much crap they strapped on me as a Grunt SAW gunner? 600 rounds on my molle gear, 2 grenades, a squad radio, a signal jammer on one shoulder, an extra barrel over my other shoulder, backpack with camelback and 2 100 round patrol pouches, flare pen, personal sony video camera, helmet, eye pro, I was also a combat lifesaver so I had a giant buttpack full of medical supplies, bullet proof vest with front/back/side plates, groin protector, throat protector, flexy cuffs, and anything mission dependent. I still could get down in prone and shoot. In fact, I love when they posted me on a corner or in a compound so my heavy geared ass could lay down and take the weight off my shoulders.
I was lucky to have a M151A2 jeep with TOW mounted on and ammo jeep in my days, until we had to pretend that our vehicles got blown up. So we hoofed it like a grunt, plus training in Panama's jungle.We did not have all that stuff like todays army have. ( 9th Infantry Division 1980-83) Peace and love to you brothers of arms!
I was 0341 in 1975 - 1977. We were issued the old flak jacket then they loaded us up with lots of ammo and because we were mortars add base plate or tripod or the tube and other stuff. Going prone then getting up to run beat you to death. I glad to see that the powers that be got you younger Grunts lighter gear. The down side is that it appears they also loaded you up with more stuff so your combat load looks about the same weight or more. Embrace the suck. Semper Fi.
I joined in 1995 and retired in 2018….as an 0311 and later 0321. Our gear changed as time went on with the environment. I started off with an LBV/LBE to Molle/IBA to a heavy plate carrier to a slimmed down plate carrier and a battle belt. The amount of equipment never changed just how we carried it did. I’m up they see me…I’m down hasn’t changed since rifles and the soldier’s shooting became accurate.
Back in 2002, we were taught the “high crawl” and “low crawl”. GP demonstrated both in this video. I think the US Army took what Carlos Hathcock, the famous sniper, did in Vietnam, (low crawling into enemy lines, shooting then low crawling back undetected over 3 days) and the US Army thought, “Good idea. We’ll teach this tactic to every infantryman.” GP said in earlier comment, “context matters”. I would say low crawl only works if the enemy is not looking for you. If they know you are there, you need to be doing a different tactic, [pointing your weapon]. Also, MAC-V SOG guys practiced hip firing. They noticed that first soldier to fire on target won. So they practiced hip firing with BB guns until they could shoot quarters at like 10’. Then they switch to their combat rifles. They said that “trick shot school” took about a week. Lessons learned and forgotten.
First part of nam in basic the Army used BB guns and metal disks to teach point and shoot. The problem was it was a skill that took more time to develop than was allowed not that it was a bad idea.
Of course, I can get prone with a chest rig, right now. I'm a elephant, my head is swollen after brain surgery/cancer, my belly is full of fluids during chemotherapy..... I just need a bomb crater to get flat & prone😂😂 Never ever stop fighting and going forward, no matter what!
I've been yelling this to most people that I train with, fundamentals first, know your basic infantry skills and of movement, concilment, Cover!, and tactics...everybody who hadn't served in 11brovo or type units think spec ops tactics equates to superior survivability,3To 5 sec ,and get the hell off the danger ao...anywhos love your channel hope you push more wisdom out to the REMF.Airborne.
According to RU-vid it seems like people suggest the following: No plate carrier, no chest rig, no belts, no backpack, no sidearm. Apparently we should all run a rifle in a sling damn near naked with maybe another mag in your back pocket.
I wouldn't worry much about a chest rig when that 30 round mag doesn't let you get your weapon up and into the fight from a prone position without more exposure than caused by your chest rig.
You can slightly cant the rifle so that the mag doesn’t hit the ground. This is day 1 stuff you should already know. Also, if you’re shooting from the prone, you are probably safe enough to have your head up slightly. So you don’t seem to understand when low crawling is actually used.
Great block here. This should be played for flipping West Pointers and OCS "leaders". We learned and changed our gear and racks so often in the Korengal it was absolutely mission dependent loadouts for the last year we were there.
I think the problem seems to be that most people don't understand the difference between "prone" and "low crawl". "Prone" means you still have work to do. It's not an excuse for a nap. You have to be able to observe and engage targets as necessary. "Low crawl" is litterally hugging the ground as you are taking fire...and yes, you are moving towards the target...or at least cover in that direction. This concept of get down and hide is childish and will get people hurt fast. Soldiers are there to do a job. Set your gear up to do just that. Best of luck, Phil
"what ifs" are not any kind of fallacy. If it's a legitimate point that contradicts what's being said then it's obviously legitimate. This seems to be some silly idea from the last few years and ppl are tripping over themselves to jump on the wagon.
I was only trained with Alice gear, LBE and medium Alice rucksack. I’m curious about the chest rigs, but I haven’t decided to dive in yet. At 54, I may just stick with what I know forever. Great video! I love the explanations, as I see all kinds of crap on the net.
Yeah just go ahead and stick to what you know which is outdated military surplus gear from the 80's that. I mean why would you adapt to change and get with the times and evolve with the gear that has been battle proven over the last 20 years of war over seas.🤦🏾♂️
@@arighteousname5882 That old outdated stuff is battle proven, too. Against chest rigs, even. An old pro with old gear who knows what they're doing will absolutely demolish a larping chud with gucci gear and no clue. If you think that keeping mags on your belt is somehow wrong... you haven't been paying attention.
I worked on an LEO Tac/Narcotics team and we were in and out of vehicles a lot and some were small under cover vehicles with limited room. I learned real quick to keep the amount of stuff I had stacked on my chest to a minimum and as flat as possible, especially if I was driving. We'd wear soft armor with over vests or chest rigs and a gunbelt. We didn't carry near as much gear as a soldier nor require near as much ammo may have to carry. As they always say, the mission drives the gear. My typical load on the chest rig was 2xAR mags, Radio, Taser, a pistol mag to supplement the 3 on my belt, an admin pouch, extra flashlight, flex cuffs and cutter.
I really wish prepper/sheepdog guys loaded their kit more like cops than soldiers. Soldiers are meant to fight. Cops only fight if they have to. For a survivalist, which makes more sense to emulate? For me it's obviously the cop, equipped to go home and not go to wherever the bad guys are.
The way I always thought of it was practicality and sacrifice. In the same way we sacrifice speed for armor or armor for speed depending on the circumstance, we sacrifice getting completely flat for a practical means of carrying accessible ammo and gear to be as effective as possible for returing fire. Rounds down range.
Not if you set it up right, which is to say, pouches to the side and not in front. Yeah, there's a grommet there on the pouch for suspenders, but nobody with a functional brain tried to make that work more than once.
The only time hugging the ground is a good idea is when taking indirect fire. You can’t return fire on an artillery battery 10+ miles away with your rifle.
5:00 digging your mag into the ground will give you much more support and lowers your profile. Modern magazines will not cause a malfuction if you apply upward force to them.
Hay you still have to be able to low-crawl. I was a Grunt too. There are times you are behind cover and you need to be kept low. You can’t hit anything when running or even moving. Or at least not shooting well. Yes, you avoid danger areas, but sometimes you have to move in the open where this no cover or concealment. I was in when we still used the old LBE. I kept my canteens in the rear and my ammo pouches on the side, because it was uncomfortable to have anything on my front. I was in Desert Storm.
While I generally agree, the biggest problem (in my personal experience) was accessing and reloading a mag while in the prone. It's slower and clunky and usually requires you to roll somewhat onto your side to do it.
Even from the perspective of a gamer I can say that I LOVE when my enemy decides to just go prone, instead of fighting. It makes the enemy a stationary target, like a firing range, and gives me sweet time to aim for as long as I need.
I think the only legitimate concern in this context is to be as low as possible where your helmet can potentially absorb frag but even then…. With 1-1/2” to 4 inches infront of your body, you can still get your head all the way to the ground. It’s a strange argument against chest rigs. I have a split rig, or I run LBE with slick plates, so getting low hasn’t been a concern to begin with, but I agree. I just don’t think it’s really an issue for those with a typical chest rig or two rows of mags/equipment infront of them.
The keyboard warriors got it backwards the more weight on your rig the harder it is to get out of prone, either cause all those cans of Spaghettios make it harder to get back up, or because it feels so nice not having your feet and knees melt. Getting to prone is the easy part, just scream incoming and everyone is down
Good video. I've been out since 93. But some things don't change. Stay out of the open, shoot, move and communicate. Know the difference between cover and concealment. Keep your battle rattle under control.
I kept an extra mag pouch on my hip just so I would have something a little easier to reach when proned out around or up against low cover and found it pretty useful. Most of the time though, mags out of the chest rig worked just fine.
Chest rigs are awesome. I just ran one for a week in the field with double stacked mags and it really doesn’t make too much difference in how low you can get… as Randal explained, rarely are you doing the low crawl… but the access to ammo makes a huge difference.
In our day in my country we called it "lug en grond verkenning" loosely translated as (air and ground recon) bounding, you asses targets and cover while down and firing, you adjust and re assess while up. Even a termite mound or log or a shallow ditch spotted while up is in fact some cover. Tedious as hell and tires you out real fast.
Good info!! Dk, I didn't see an appropriate superman at the end of that combat rush. Gotta convince the enemy you're dedicated to the charge!! Lot to be said for commitment. So the weird thing, the Aussies and the Brits, specifically their marines and SAS, they got away from anything on their front for jungle warfare in the Pacific and Vietnam specifically due to the inability to hug the ground and grind the ole face into the dirt. We had tac vests with I wanna say 7 mags in the slant pockets and another two ammo pouches on the front of the LCE to make 14 total including the one in the rifle's female receptacle. It was super uncomfortable and difficult to low crawl, and a little exhausting, but not impossible. I really like that vest in the winter when rucking, but in the summer it sucked, especially in the heat of NC. I'd run a chest rig any day over the old LCE and the tac vest. Second, wipe open areas may be go terrain, but you aint gonna go far if there's an enemy air asset, armor asset, heavy or light MG at the other side. Seen that open field tactic go bad a couple times. You're right, if the enemy has any advantage of elevation, surprise/ambush, then you're in some real trouble.
Just to point out the obvious: The NVA wore chest rigs... Just let that sink in. Even a cheap canvas chest rig like the AK rig means you can access ammo very easily from any position, but particularly while prone or in hiding. with minimal movement. I genuinely had NO idea there were idiots claiming you can't fight using one. That's DEMONSTRABLY untrue, and there's not a credible military historian who would agree with you.
Good info. I’ve never been LEO, nor have I served. But I will if I have to. At 56 years old I still would. That said, I did join a group last year and it was short lived. But OMG the bickering on rigs. Lol. One thing I truly learned is there’s a lot of scenarios when you’re thinking Minutemen vs soldiers with logistics and all the things a radio call away. Some guys were running as little as four mags but complaining I was running 14 😳. I admit I don’t know what I’m doing, but I was thinking if you’re gone for days and no one is bringing supplies…. Two on the belt, 8 around the chest and the rest on my back and one in rifle. I guess it’s all according to the mission. But I actually felt the double stacks in front aids my prone shooting. As a long time hunter I’d go a long way to stay out of the open. And deer ain’t shooting back. What is your thoughts on a Minuteman load out? My thoughts were I can always scale down for a specific mission. But SHTF….
My preferred go to TAPS has 2.5-3" added thickness. If you're wearing a chest rig as a chest rig not a belly band it actually adds some nice stability while prone. And if you're actually doing SMCS the amount of time it might be a discomfort is minimal.
Few thoughts. I've never liked the battle belt, gets in the way of a pack plus you're limited on ammunition and that is always a major concern. Stay out of the field unless no choice.
i've found the fact that many people who believe they will actually be a factor in a combat scenario dwell on this so heavily to be very concerning. it's a tabletop gaming approach to reality, this isnt a game and you're not going to be stat maxing by having optimal gear. if you're in a live fire situation where 2 inches is life or death do you really thing the gear is gonna be more important than your training? trust me your lack of training and experience is gonna get yourself un-alived long before poor your gear choices will. Look at the life expectancy of replacements in ww2, experience and training is king.
We use what we can in Ukraine, a good friend of mine ran a plate carrier with a chest rig over the top. His thought was if needed he can take off his load, but still have his body protected.
Grunts right, The Titles not true, and he Clearly demonstrates that. You can definitely go prone as long as not double stacked rifle mags + pistol mags or another admin pouch innfront of that! Lol!. But if you have a 3 mag pouch stacked with double mags on your Front Center position on your IOTV, no your DEFINITELY NOT going prone. Then your about as high as a low kneel. Hey Ranger Graves are about 12"-18" deep. While on elbows up shooting its not a problem, trying to push yourself deeper into the dirt under fire and/or IDF, Frags. Having been under fire often enough, you just can't get quite deep enough and your shoulders and non-rifle protective helmet are exposed, but thats just a risk and compromise fighting men must endure.
This all is correct only if we are talking about an enemy armed with small arms. But who will you shoot at when you come under artillery or mortar fire? And it doesn't matter if it's an open space or a shrubbery. Especially on the type of hard and rocky ground that you have under your feet. Shards, pieces of stone and wood will fly five inches and even lower. Armor, vest and magazines on the chest will take two or three inches only at the point of contact with ground but, the shoulders will be pretty high. In addition, running under mortar fire is another quest. Again, I'm talking about a certain type of warfare and a certain experience
some other bullshit that never sat right with me is when you get bitched at by a lane walker because you shot at a target from behind a bush instead of getting up on a knee just to squeeze off two shots, like the bush is gonna get me killed or something
There are pros & cons for both chestrigs & 782 (old school alice). My MOS we always had packs so the chestrig was a counter balance. We rarely went to the prone. I believe its a personal choice. I never cared for an asspack four canteens & four mag pouches bouncing off my ass as I run doing bounds. I dont like drop holsters or any of that other shit. Id rather be uncomfortable with a chestrig. Also, the prone takes up too much time when you are trying to get out of the kill zone. Assault through (Marines) or bound/australian peel out. Cool vid thx
You are missing a small detail - the main reason why you want to keep a low profile and keep your front clear of excessive gear is incoming artillery, grenades, cluster munitions. In Ukraine the number 1 reason you are going prone is incomming artillery, and since the terrain very flat especially in those open fields and treelines, you are taking cover in shallow vehicle tracks and craters. If you hear grad rocket releasing clusters you have like 4 seconds to react, with other rifled artillery the time you have since you hear the whistle warries upon the angle they firing, distance, velocity etc. Can be 3s, can be 0. Regarding firefights, shooting from prone is not used that often. As in real world your line of sight will be blocked by rubble/grass/terrain etc.
Yeah....if they really think a chest rig isn't viable, I'd love to see how they handle an IOTV. Which is what we wore while doing field maneuvers in Infantry school....at Ft. Benning.
Vietnam Era we got LC-1, flak vest, accessories. I still have my LC-1 ready to go with 20 rd magazines. Proper camo and reading a terrain helps. 11B, 19D.
Spent quite a while in the infantry, and virtually zero time in the prone in the open. Most of the time spent in cover was actually at a very awkward crouch behind something too low to kneel behind and find cover while also too high to lie prone behind and still engage the enemy.
I was wearing a rack chest rig over OTV in Iraq in 04. Yes you can go prone just fine. Wearing everything on a belt doesn’t work with full coverage body armor, which is a necessity any wear stuff blows up, and makes running/climbing harder.
I think the "Lay down as close You have to the ground" may have been use for discourage tactical guys to over load there vest for tactical clases. That or it just for comfort rather then actual combat exercise.
The best 3 to 5 second rush I saw belongs to my old buddy Spc Gunn (RIP bud). He was yelling, "I'm up, he sees me, he's shooting, he's missing me, I'm down." It was absolutely hilarious.
Don't they teach this in the military? After I retire from my "job" I will want to forget and enjoy retirement. I'm not gonna play games simulating my job. I'm glad so many vets loved their service so much they play soldier afterwards.
I HATE keeping shit directly on front of my carrier other than mags, maybe shears, and low profile items which are still typically off-center. But idk when id ever drop and just hug the floor unless maybe theres indirect fire. Im bounding/sprinting to cover for dear life
It's very simple, don't start fires with a fucking multitool, make yourself a ranger lighter. Bic lighter, paracord, duct tape or gorilla tape, chapstick and cotton balls. Soak tiny cotton balls in the chapstick and stick them in the chapstick cap. Tape one side of the paracord to the lighter and tape the other to the chapstick. Make multiple wraps of tape neatly around both items. When making a fire, tear off a piece of duct tape, smear the inside with chapstick, put a cotton ball on top, light it with the lighter. Instant fire anywhere.
I reckon a chest rig is kind of a necessity I mean it's probably one of the most compact and accessible setups you can have, for combat alone it's less bulky than a backpack and keeps all the shit you urgently need like say magazines and a side arm within arms reach if it slows down my movement and increases my profile I'd say its worth it to get to what I need faster realistically though In any scenario in which I actually fight I'll be on the asymetric side of things and might just be better of with a bandaleer and cargo pants
I like my chest rigs because they don't rely on hook and pile to hold it onto my body, yes they have their hindrances like how they add a lot of extra weight to the front of your body and they slosh around while running but I believe it's a fair option for when you don't feel the need to use plates or don't have plates. I also recognize the benefits of a plate carrier such as added protection and the real estate that comes with the surface area and after I find a carrier that doesn't rely on a Velcro cummerbund or if I can find or manufacture a cummerbund replacement that will allow me to use the Velcro less I will definitely be using my plate carrier more often.
