13:04 "I would just love to get a Defender, because i´m out there watching other people doing Defender videos, this is a competitive business, and we want to be part of that conversation" Don´t worry about that, guys. You´re doing the best Defender review of them all, trust me.
Towed for a dealership in Denver 08-12,,, made mad money off all rovers. There's reasons you can buy a five year old Rover for less than half original sticker
Agree on our LR3 the check engine light has been on for 6 years. No one is able to fix but no problems,it's an LR thing. Take some black tape over the light fixed👍
Honestly? The same. They take care of them while under warranty. This is so common with these and all the line. So many issues. Engines, software and wiring. Good friend is a master tech and the stories he can tell. The issue is keeping techs anywhere. They spend so much diag time they can't make any money. JLR corp stance is all the dealers should salary the techs like the rest of the world. Old school US dealers won't. Mechanic has a $200 paycheck. Couple of those are enough to quit and go to a line that isn't junk.
@@jakey20022 we have a Cherokee Overland, a 19' with the 2.0t motor, the off road suspension, skid plates etc 28 months, zero issues. None. And it was $20k less.
@@THEjasonTDI In your dreams. They would blame you as the owner for misusing the car, like my BMW dealer. They will fix it under warranty but they'll first order the parts sometimes 2-3 days other times 1 week and call back to set an appoitment when those are in, usually 1 or 2 weeks after that. Sometimes they'll be "waiting for parts" for 3 weeks or more and not notify you untill you call them and hear, "yeah, the part just came in yesterday" and won't offer any curtesy car for you, to be able to go to work or not just wait there. Also they will do the bare minimum to get the issues to be gone when you pick the car but the faults will comeback after 1 month or 2 at the most. And as soon as the car is out of warranty and the same issue, you visited them for 6 times, reappears, they'll want to charge you full price. Also for another reaccuring fault, after you pay for an "inspection" they'll charge the full rate and offer 3 possible causes for the issue.
LR Dealership says “ we’ve never actually installed a winch before” ... Land Rover. It’s unfortunate that this shows how far from the off-road world they’ve strayed. Stay in the fight guys. I love your series.
Yeah, what do they mean with "can't be replaced". Any 1. year electronics student should be able to solder a few cables back together. This is ridiculous. How incompetent can a company get. Wait... don't answer that, we already know.
To be fair if the main wiring harness on all modern cars once damaged is more expensive to replace than getting a new car. It's not that they cannot be replaced they can but the cost to replace and the time it would take us in economical this is the be as my e for Toyota GM ford Kia hyundia VAG etc it's not JLR issue it all motor manufacturer. The wiring harness are so complex be and fragile pre fitting. They have to be kept hot in heated jackets if your be watch the production the wiring harness are kept heated right up the very last minute the assembly workers have a limited time to fit before they get to cold to fit.
@@keithnewton8981 hyundai kia goes the extra mile to make things 'fixable'. Most of their cars can have their harnesses replaced for a reasonable price from bluehands. Try changing an airfilter on a hyundai and you will lnow what I mean by they go the extra mile.
It most probably is replaceable! However, the Defender would not be brand new or factory fresh if it was replaced. The dealer should be held accountable for the shoddy quality of work that led to the harness being cut. If the dealer had thoroughly inspected the first white Defender with steel rims, JLR would have replaced it with a new one and saved the customer the hassle of going through this lengthy process
My father-inlaws brother used them in the Australian Army Survey core, They said you go out with three and come back with two. The third was used for spare parts. Now I can imagine they would have abused the hell out of them.
The irony is your “our broken Defender” videos will likely have more views then other channel’s review videos and your own review videos. Unique content that others can’t make.
Right? Yeah back when I was dumb I bought a freeloader...I mean Freelander. What a turd. 58,000 miles, 8k out of warranty, the head gasket blows. A coworker's husband who worked at a nearby dealer told me on the down low "yeah we've seen some of these having that problem". Same dealer says "you need an new engine, it's 8,000, we'll do it for 7,000". I say F*&k off. Take it to local British car guy who tells me my car is "the most pathetic engineering project he's ever seen" and he's been working on nothing but British cars for 30 years. Spend 4,000 to fix it, it's still not 100%. Considered running it off a cliff but ended up trading it in and taking it in the shorts. What a joke...on me. Never again.
Yaaa when Ford owned JLR its reputation came and down below earth.. Still poor ownership effect are seen till date.... It’s a proof that Ford can’t make cars... Ford is just alive because Americans keep buying Ford cars Which is tooooooo hard for you guys to digest
@@travcool1991 probably fiber optics, I bet. A good mechanic and an IT guy could repair it, I'm sure. But the dealer doesn't fix wires, only replaces harnesses. So if someone damaged the harness and they couldn't get you a new one, the dealer just bought your car. I would've towed it to an indie shop to fix it and tell JLR to drop me a few grand for the hassle.
Land Rover sell the winch. The dealer is the one who fits it. Same with all of the bolt on accessories. So, first Defender was LR's fault. Second Defender was the dealer's fault (which again, isn't Land Rover owned. It'll be a franchise).
"...engine operating outside its set parameters..." equals "...the effing thing is broken..." I can imagine what an ordinary buyer would be going through...
@@jonsmith1259 Nope, that wouldn't fly. If they brought the car back with 1K blowing smoke with no oil in the crankcase and a scratched up bottom then maybe. With less than 200 miles on the clock, not a chance.
How is it possible that they have to change the whole engine? When I bought my used Toyota Hilux I was also looking at used Defenders (the old model of course) and Mercedes G. Only in the used Defenders it was common that the whole engine had been replaced.
Imagine the nightmare the average joe off the street would be enduring at this moment.... The level of support the average buyer gets after purchase is magnitudes worse than this and this is literally a nightmare. To hell and back should be what you call the buying experience.
I totally agree. If it was not someone high profile they would just fob you off. I went and test drove the new defender and it was a nice vehicle but I could feel my bank account emptying rapidly with the garage bills.
@@Saeglopur89 I agree. The old ones are awesome though and keep rolling on. Landrover take the credit but it's the dedicated enthusiasts that keep them going. 75% of all landrovers ever made pre 1990 are still going.
@@Silvia0073 Nick Murray had a similar set of circumstances with a Porsche 911. Somethings just fall apart and keep falling. Rovers aren't particularly reliable but this set of problems is definitely beyond the norm.
In theory, any car should be reliable if you service them at the correct intervals and take general care of it. I guess Land Rover is an exception, strangely.
Here in Australia it dead set isn’t unusual in the summer that when people test drive the cunts from the dealership a check engine light come on after like 4-5 kilometres
Imagine you have two kids. You give one kid a candy and another a better and healthy food..... Would you do that partiality to your own kids ( Having a same mother ofcouse ) Would you??? If you understand my message get beer tonight or go get a life and have your mothers Brest milk...
@@Middle_fingerr damn dude you are getting triggered over every comment in this thread, what the hell is your problem? The original commentor is 100% right, if they weren’t a car reviewer, they would’ve been treated like garbage and been told to DEAL with it, since they already had their money.
Not quite true - the Australian army had the best Land Rovers ever built (albeit they were designed and built in Sydney) - the 'Perentie' with an Isuzu 4BD1 engine. Perfect marriage of offroad performance with Japanese engine reliability.
This comment is perfect ! Most people have to own a LR for at least a couple of years to have this much fun. Funny how owners of LR get to know the mechanics at the dealership by name.
Hi TFL. Been great watching your attempt to review the new Defender. Just so you know, this is not an isolated event! I live in the UK and am now on my second Defender! Like you, I picked up ay new P300 S in June and within 30 days it was back at the dealer. Had to have a new windscreen due to seals buckling, but the main reason for return was that the Maps on the interactive dash were not working! Long story short, it went back to the dealer three further times, needed a new module and was at the shop more than I had it, so I rejected it. Fortunately I am now in a new P300 SE, which I collected in October, so far no issues. Why didn't I just get another brand, well because I love Land Rover and have owned Puma engine Defender, 2 Disco 4's, RR Vogue and Disco 5. Got to say, the new Defender I'm now in is Brilliant and in my opinion there is nothing (in the UK market) to touch it! Good luck with your third replacement! Looking forward to tuning in. From the UK - Best regards
If the dealer had performed a proper pre-delivery inspection of the vehicle this would never have happened. The dealership just wants to make money, as they know that people will ultimately blame the manufacturer and not them
I used to get lumbered with Landcruisers of various types when I worked in the Australian bush and deserts. The only thing they were good at was drinking diesel. Eventually switched to Pajero. Comfort and economy and went everywhere the land barges used to go. The 500Kg tool box was easy to fork lift in the back and the Pajero could carry 4 blokes, their luggage and all our water and supplies no problem. When you were back on the blacktop you could cruise at 150kph till you got close to civilisation (police). Very underrated vehicle the Pajero 3.2 diesel
@@ponytrishpip funny because many Australians use Toyotas for the simple reason they are so reliable. Yet the Pajero was the biggest piece of shit I ever owned. Now have an fj 7 years..220k and never had one fault 🤔
"Let's order a Land Rover for a series called "To Hell and Back." Three vehicles later.... I'd say you've accomplished the goal of your series... just much sooner than you anticipated.
This is FAAAAR more informative and entertaining than any Defender review. I'm really glad I took that vehicle off my shopping list. We'll keep waiting for the Warthog.
There’s no wire harness in a vehicle that can’t be replaced. It’s just a lot of work and the dealership is incompetent. I would not let them touch the vehicle. Get a winch installed somewhere else. These guys are push overs and the dealer is playing them.
No kidding, I want details on that and the original engine failure. This whole thing seems fishy even if it does follow the usual tropes of LR and Jag ownership.
@@gildardo I have worked with dealerships for 20 years. Most techs, not all but most, are very good at routine and typical work. Anything “new” and involving that requires critical thinking, you’re better off going to an independent shop because smaller shops have to work on a wide variety of vehicles involving all sorts of diagnosis. They generally have their thinking caps on at all times.
@RpM_Evan I think it might be how they're offering an unbiased explanation of potential problems for potential owners. I feel better informed of what might go wrong if I could ever afford a defender (not likely lol.)
One of the core principles of TFL is "transparency", to date of I have found this to be true and so I ask you to publish the VIN and engine number so that this vehicle is not purchased by an unsuspecting buyer or if they replace the engine and then sell it as a "factory fresh" vehicle, buy it and do the intended review that TFL does so well
You’ve done everyone a great service- imagine people considering a Defender that hop over to RU-vid and feel pretty excited after watching Doug D wax poetic about his then stumble upon TFL....you will save a lot of people from a lot of heartache.
I’m baffled why Doug D is so popular. He spends 25 min blabbing about the window switches and only 5 min driving and somehow gets 1m+ views. TFL reviews = wayyyy better
Doug is well educated, observant, worked in the business, his auction site launch was phenomenal. Doug has tons of connections from porsche, autotrader, cox automotive,etc. He is one of the most respected people in the auto business.
@@chrishaddad5362 just bought a Husqvarna 701, basically same bike as KTM. Headlight stopped working at only 1200 miles, dealer says there are ZERO replacements in stock in the U.S. I am on the list for a new light in early December. We'll see.
"This is why I buy Toyotas." Seriously, there's just no way on Earth I would buy a "European" car. "Never have, never will." But I truly appreciate what you folks do at TFL. In an ocean full of automotive content, you just don't find the kinds of things you are doing. There is a "real world" out there, but you don't see much of it from the rest of your "industry." It's why I support TFL, and why I keep on coming back to watch what you do for us. Thank you, and "well done." As always.
Man, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I had an equally bad experience with Toyota... except they said "come get it, we give up" and I was left alone with a Tundra that couldn't stay running.
@@jeffissimo1221 How do you write a comment like that and not give the details on what was wrong? And what dealership just throws their hands up at a problem like that unless it was something you caused like driving it without oil or you doing something that voided a warranty. I'm calling shenanigans on a dealership leaving you high and dry unless there is more to the story
Surely you can’t be surprised by this? The only surprising part is they have tried so hard to help you out but I guess that can be explained by the fact you have a RU-vid channel. Good luck guys 👍🏻
@@Edgar-iq8zc it actually is, other commenters pointed out that TFL has now reached South Africa and Australia thanks to outlets over there picking up on the defender story. I think JLR's global reputation is now affected by this lmao
Many years ago, when i was a National Trust Warden, we took delivery of a then new Defender, that had stood overnight in the rain. When i opened the door, it was saturated inside, as the roof and window joints leaked so much. I had to go buy a tube of Silicon sealant, and seal it myself. However, in the Army, in the early 70's we never had a problem with our Land Rovers, they were much simpler in those days.
I really can’t see why people keep buying these, I’ve worked at the Solihull JLR factory for 6 years and the quality control is laughable, they don’t care about the customer as long as it makes it out of the factory without faults, I’ve seen so much superglue and tape used to bodge things, I lost my job there due to the pandemic but I’m glad to be out! It is a toxic work environment and the management are a bunch of bullies who can’t see past there own nose
It's stunning that in today's hyper-competitive market, LandRover is so poorly managed. Apparently, they enjoy their reputation for putting out some of the most reliable cars in the industry. Sooner or later this has to catch up with them, you would think.
I was in the Mayfair dealership where an older customer was tutting at another customer complaining about reliability issues. I kid you not the old fart said to the other customer “lad-ie, if one cannot afford a RangeRover one should not buy a RangeRover” 🤦🏻♂️
@@powdertrax9742 because even exploders last longer than 174 miles. And mustangs don’t break down even after several fatalities each cars and coffee meetup.
I have 2 series rovers, 4 classic range rovers including 1 factory turbo diesel 5 speed, and 3 Ford trucks. I spend 98% of my time fixing the land rovers and 98% of my time driving the fords. Needless to say I have a bronco on order so I can sell all 6 land rovers.
Lol. The harness was irreplaceable. My a**. The new one has the same engine problem as the old one, ie, this problem is pretty common. This is why they wanted an engineer to drive it before.
As an embarrassed Englishman, there’s 2 things I’ve learned from this. A) I’m not buying a Defender even though I really wanted it to be so good, and B) The wife and I are sticking to our 2 Toyotas.
I feel bad for the LR Defender owners that don't have a RU-vid channel and has these issues. This story also shows why we need to get rid of dealerships and all the incompetence. Direct sales need to happen for all brands. Even here in this case, the dealership has done nothing but mess up two Defenders.
Vehicles always have issues, i know of two Evoke customers had transmission problems. JLR just dealt with the problem on a customer to customer basis, rather than call back. Would have cost a fortune.
Yeah sure, Everyone in the USA who buys one of these wants to deal only with the manufacturer who is 5 to 8 time zones away in another country. Let's make this process even more hands off.
Sitting in a room talking about a car you don't have access to is the most realistic review possible. Saving a lot of people the inconvenience of living through this themselves.
As an Englishman and long time owner of Land Rovers since 1999 and being the son of a Father who has owned Range Rovers since 1970 I can confirm that I switched to Jeep Wranglers in 2007 and have never looked back. Superior off road, Superior suspension travel, Superior build quality, superior durability. My Father agrees. Long Live the Wrangler.
I'd say you got your review right there. You need to feel confident that your off-road vehicle get you from A to B. As of now the Defender has taken well over 40 days to get to the startingline. Sure, great customer experience and care, but bottom line, still no car and endless trouble with them. Best of luck to you! Thanks for some great content.
Imagine having to wade through this trouble while being an average Joe with no social media clout. Meanwhile the grandads in JLR marketing/PR not knowing the impact of RU-vid are obviously trying to nickel & dime through what is a massive PR disaster. Just imagine the number of people deciding not to buy a Land Rover for decades to come as they watch this slow motion train wreck. My god just air freight a working vehicle to these guys..... This is too cringy to watch.
Not only that: imagine dealing with all of this outside of warranty. You would be looking at at least $10k in repairs with a new engine, all those modules, and goodness knows how many workshop hours. Probably more than the vehicle would be worth after 4 years.
They, and all other LR drivers enjoy the same conversation - how long they got to drive their vehicle before returning it to the dealership to fix another problem. Its almost a badge of honor for them to brag about how much their vehicle has been in for repairs
The comedy in that is cutting a wiring harness makes the vehicle junk, unusable, not fixable. LOL Who cuts an entire harness? The dealership only needed to splice a couple wires. LOL
@@steved1880 Splicing isn't an acceptable repair. It's perfectly fixable, but lead time on a new harness is probably a few months and the installation is probably 10+ hours.
@@NM-gr7cs this is not only channel that has had issue. I have watched 5 channel re defender and they all have had their cars in the dealer for extended periods of time. Pretty car you buy I will admire but don’t want the nightmares
I actually have a DEFENDER 110. I’ll have to tell you. Your issues is not the norm. I have had zero issues with my Defender. It has been a fantastic vehicle. Truly in love with it. I mean there can be a bad apple in any mass production of a product. Does not matter if it is an iPhone, a PlayStation, or a vehicle. It certainly sounds like you received a bad apple in the bunch. I feel bad for you, but this is far from the norm. The DEFENDER is great and I am loving my ride.
This is the final nail in the coffin. I was considering buying a new Defender, but its a big NO for me now!!! Thank you so much TFL, you saved me from a lot off potential pain. FYI, I am subscribing too your channel at this moment also👍
I sure am glad I came across this video. I'm in the market for a $70k +/- vehicle. I didn't want to wait for the Bronco so I started looking at the Defender as I love the way it looks. I've heard all the horror stories of LR reliability problems but thought they were a thing of the past...I guess not. 2021 F150 Platinum it is!
TFL - dont worry about the lack of defender content. These videos explaining the issues of actual Land Rovers is more interesting than anyone telling us how amazing the new defender is. This is an absolute jackpot for you! I only found the channel because it broke and im now loving the channel
You're getting a lot better treatment than I did with my 2020 Sierra Duramax haven't been able to drive it since August GM finally authorized the brake repair on Friday but all the parts are backordered so now they're offering me a buyback based on the fact that they believe it could be down for another 6 to 7 months! Bought it in March problem started in May at 1500 miles!
I hope JLR understands that no one who watches this will ever buy a Rover. Don't feel bad though- most everyone I speak to already knew they were crap. The most beautiful crap.
This is by far the best and most accurate product/car overview I have seen on your channel. The fact you are own your 3rd vehicle after less than 200 miles and over a month with the dealership/mfg. trying to remedy the situation tells me and everyone else exactly what they need to know about LandRover vehicles and the quality of their products. You may have not thought the series would turn out this way, but its provided more useful info to help buyers than you could have ever shown going up and down hills with this vehicle.
And despite the fact that people still claim "oh well that would be a case with only a few models in the Land Rover lineup just like how you would have a few problems with other manufacturers too" gets me frustrated every time. Not gonna lie.
Once had a Range Rover Vogue Se classic (almost new at the time) that was a love hate relationship. Loved it when it worked but that was only 50% of the time. Then had a MK1 basic Discovery which was OK but it started to rust. Years later in Gibraltar had a Freelander and the cam belt let go (dealer neglected to change cam belt at correct service interval) amongst other problems. Never had a a LR product since. As a Brit it really pains me to say LR products (except maybe the old Defender) are rubbish and are getting worse as the technology designed in increases. Couple of years ago I had a basic RAV4 AWD Petrol when I lived in Qatar and it never let me down, even in 50C degree heat when it was completely out of its depth on the dunes. It just kept going regardless of what was thrown at it.
Seriously. I have a friend who is a retired Ford management employee. She told me that, when Ford was in bed with Jag, she got a screaming deal on a Jag, and then spent the next 3-4 years enjoying an absolutely trouble free experience. I listened to this entire story with a totally slack-jawed look, and asked if she was just forgetting all the times that she called AAA, and the POS rode the hook back to the dealer? She told me that no, it was dirt cheap and reliable as a Honda. I guess the claim that even a blind squirrel can find a nut ever so often, is correct.