Hey all! 👋 Thanks for watching this video and the theory videos after S4P1! Keen to know what you thought of Season 4 Part 2! Comment your thoughts below!
@@xuexxiong yes mate exactly what I was thinking. I guess we will never know. But as we saw through the Saison, Phoebe is easy to get with words. Maybe it wasnt that special, just typical Joe quotes
well, congrats to everyone who guessed that Rhys doesn't really know Joe, but that it's all in his head as a result of his "split" personality. i saw it coming but the plot twist with Marianne being alive and Nadia being scapegoat surprised me
@@pallafox yeah. i really thought Marianne met the same fate as Delilah where Joe promised to let her go but in the end death came for her. i feel sorry for Nadia, she didn’t deserve this but somehow it was inevitable because Joe is always three steps ahead of all those chasing him
so happy she came out on top i feel like out of everyone joe has been obsessed w she deserved to get out the most. not that anyone deserved it at all but she had the most to live for she truly was a fighter from the jump i hope she keeps her peace but knowing the show joe might just find out :((((
@@dj1459 I know it's unlikely that Marieanne would risk it since she's safe with her daughter but I feel like she won't let the the fact that Nadia was wrongfully imprisoned go, and might come back for revenge in s5?
In the past seasons, the writers were able to make me feel bad for Joe despite him being a serial killer/stalker and all. He always had a soft spot for kids and he felt this need to protect them… whether it would be Paco, Ellie or Henry. He will try to find excuses to justify what he done in order to keep the kids safe. After this season, I’m so ready for the fifth and hopefully final season where we see him get what he rightfully deserves.
I know what you mean! I thought we were getting an 'Ellie/Paco' with Nadia but they went full on Psychologist with her and ended up framing her like they did him!
@@Batman-675-hv1hi yeah it seems like a lot of people did not enjoy having the season split up. It was hard for me to go get through the second part of this season. I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t renewed or if people even finished this season.
He never obsessed over Kate bc of his obsession with Rhys taken all his attention. Perhaps bc of this he was actually able to move beyond infatuation to love with her? Just a thought. Kate was the only one of his love interests he didn’t have a box of trinkets for. This sets her apart from all previous gfs except Karen from season 1 who he didn’t actually love. All he wanted was a friend this season, Kate’s a good friend!
@@NileSWPhotography nah I actually thinks he loves Kate, notice season 1-3 he always says at the end he's looking for the one or YOU, but in season 4 ending he says that killing and getting away will be much easier since he's technically famous now, I think he's just gonna be a full on serial killer from now on and keep getting away with it
@@justsomeguywithamustache2901 he is sick. First and foremost he is an obsessive psychopath, who needs his daily dose of something new and exciting, he cant live without it. A new woman will come along. Kate will be forgotten and become a liability just like Love. Because joe is a sick man. And that kind of sickness cant be cured
I haven't I liked episode but season is confusing to me. Like they wanted try something in 1st half now forget it we going bk full pshyco Joe in second half 😂
I think the thing a lot of people are forgetting is he's accepted his "Dark Passenger" now. Next season is going to be a full-on slaughter fest filled with non-accountability and bloodlust (for those Joe deems fit). He accepts his need to kill, and now he doesnt have to be ashamed of it, like he still was when he met Love. A prediction for next season is he's obviously going to find another infatuation or obsession. He'll 100% grow bored of Kate sooner or later, just like he did with Love, and he'll start blaming her for that happening, as usual. He'll blame her money, power, choices, etc. but ironically, he'll become like Adam (Phoebes boyfriend,) only being with her for the money and influence. There are SO many ironic times like that in this series, I can already see this adding another layer of hypocrisy to Joe's actions
I agree with what you wrote, but let'a not forget, Jow doesn't need to find a replacement for Kate, but for Rhys, since he was obssesed with him and not Kate and he kept a box for him, so I don't think Kate will have a problem next season like Love did
@@sharon9861 I honestly think Joe this season, being split into two, actually was capable of loving Kate. Now though, he and Rhys are one. Which means he will no doubt become the Joe we know from the other seasons. I think the Joe we saw this season was "obsessed" with Kate, but in an appropriate way for once, being able to contain his urges because Rhys had them all. You could even call it love. I think that this is why so many people are confused about Joe this season. Because for once, we we're seeing him without those urges, and was trying to redeem himself. All that went out the window when Rhys merged with Joe.
@@sharon9861 You could be right though. He could only be interested in finding a replacement for Rhys. But seeing how they're now one person, I dont really see that happening.
@@Chadmlad I thought it was like Rhys - the real person he was obsessed with and Rhys - which was Joe all along. But that's the beauty, we will leave the choice for the writers to show us in the next season
Idk why but joe was scary at the ending of part 2 like he usually has sympathy and cares for the child of the season but this time he didn’t. He feels more chaotic and crazy
@@nataliacruz6218 she’s a student, only 19 or 20, joe used to have a soft spot for young ppl because he has childhood trauma-but after he “killed” himself and merged with “rhys” he become fully psychopathic
The writers probably intended for us to catch on to the idea that Rhys was a figment of Joe’s imagination, delivering a nice red herring; while the actual shocking moments were 1. Marienne being held captive (although in retrospect her getting on the train was too good to be true) 2. Marienne escaping alive thanks to Nadia’s brilliant plan (I did a little mental hurrah when that was revealed) 3. Joe killing poor Eddie in broad daylight and pinning it all on poor Nadia. Gosh I felt so bad for them.
The final episode is gonna be so crazy. I can see Joe going to court or something and literally everyone testifying against him. And the crazy part will be that Marienne will walk in and Joe will be so dumbfounded because he thinks she’s dead. This ending will not only give justice for Marienne, but also Nadia, who will probably be released from jail if Joe is caught.
@@AzuriteGaming no but it was just so evil like Joe would’ve done something like he did with Ellie and bribe her maybe he could of blackmailed her he had a ton of power ag that point so it was unnecessary it would of been more powerful to leave them as he has more power and there not a threat to him in his eyes so season 5 you them work together.
The fact that he just killed Eddie like that really stung! He was sweet and didn’t deserved that ending, and poor Nadia as well. I think that scene really showed how much of a terrible person he is! And not so much the anti-hero anymore.
Tati Gabrielle performing Marianne was a Masterpiece! Episode 8 made me so emotional, for a moment I forgot it was just fiction... I hope she will get revenge next season!
Seriously I was so surprised what happened in second half that I didn’t expect.. now I have to watch over again to see that Joe was crazy and talked to himself 😃
If he's headed back to New York then I'd assume season 5 will probably be the finale as it's fitting to end things where they started. It's interesting to see that Kate has kinda taken on the role that Love had in the novels where she knew he was the killer and supported him by covering up his various misdeeds (rather than her TV version where Love was also a murderer). It'll be interesting to see if any of the past seasons' characters will be the one(s) to take Joe down or if they'll go with dramatic irony and have someone like his mother or younger brother be the one to finally end him.
right? the second half of this season felt SO much like the books to me, what with kate's role and joe's character becoming even more dark and deranged
Mother?? Are you stupid?😂 It would be stupid if joe gets caught, he should be finally happy with kate and kill his mother in finale who started this, joe did it for his mom the first time and she completely abandoned him and made him into this, joe finslly got peace now, it should end happy for joe❤️
Season five could be the most expecting best sequel to become publish if they bring Joes son to either go against him when he’s older or acquire a knowledge of Joe when he’s younger.
i can see nadia making a comeback in 5. and be a menacing changed character to clear her name, she would do anything and it will be a battle of mind games with joe.
The fact that they put Kate in a red suit and she took on her father's last name is really telling about the path she's going down. She and Joe are deluding themselves into thinking they'll keep each other good.
I loved this whole season 😍 I loved the new direction and everything the series did was golden. The alter ego was a *chefs kiss* idea, even though predictable, they executed it well. I also love how we got deeper into Joe’s psychology this season and we saw him through Marienne’s eyes, which was scary af. He’s unhinged man. I wanted to hear what he said to Phoebe but I guess we’ll never know 😂
I believe what joe said to lady phebe was “when u open a window a dark rooms gets filled with light” and kate said that that was the most beautiful thing anyone ever said to her meaning u give someone whos filled with dark lonely energy, when u throw in something good a new chance of hope which is the window opening and filling up joe with light
Naw, Ellie knows nothing bout Joe and was gettin hole lotta cash from him. Joe wanted Delyla to live but love fucked it up. I hate Nadia tbh she’s just annoying af and I hope she never comes back just like Mr Nicky. Even if it was very nasty from Joe XD And Marienne really got no loss she could be upset about. Cause Joe killed everything dangerous and threatening around her. Bro I feel like psychopath while writing this but I really want Joe just to be happy with Kate. They deserve themselves. But yeah now that Joe WANTS to kill it’s a different point. In the third season he tried to escape this routine but now…I just don’t know how i have to feel about fr😔
@@Raze303 Finally someone who agrees with me yep I think the same too these ppl act so innocent and act like they r the law system and ask for justice for what Joe did lol
Random thoughts * the photographer was important because erotamania got explained to the audience before Joe's erotamania got revealed. * Kate's dad sets the hit on Phoebe's DH husband. This philosophy of needing to get rid of anyone who remotely upsets Kate matches what Joe is like when he's infatuated. Kate still being able to be attracted to Joe after finding out what he's done is actually made plausible given what she grew up around.
This is true. Kate's reaction to Joe's revelation also hits at Kate's past as well. She often said she did a bad thing or bad things, in the hospital she said her and Joe can keep each other good. Good, what did Kate do so bad that she needs Joe to keep her good? This made me wonder why her Father was so fixated on keeping surveillance on her because Kate is also a psychopath.
@@roshellegouldbourne787 "Good, what did Kate do so bad that she needs Joe to keep her good?" She gave a bunch of children cancer, for starters. That much we know. No doubt there's more than just that.
Nadia not going to the police immediately and then collecting evidence to give to the police doesn’t make sense. If she had gone to the police when she found Marianne, it would have been the biggest proof to out Joe away and Joe didn’t even know where he’d kept Marianne at that point and wouldn’t have been able to escape and simply been caught and put away for good. joe had some serious plot armour there. And how come there were no security cameras ever. These days there ain’t a single place without cameras. Especially in a city like London. Also, dawn, the photographer woman she was always shown curiously looking at Joe, she was never shown obsessing over Lady Phoebe, that was completely a misdirected. I wasn’t as hooked to this season as I was to others.
i had issues with those plot points too. so many times i was wondering where are the security cameras? there are security camera everywhere in real life. like at the end when he killed eddie (? nadia’s boyfriend) it would’ve been caught on camera too. hopefully this is all settled next season and he’s FINALLY caught and gets his karmic justice.
She could have at least taken pictures of Marianne in the cage as evidence. It’s weird that it didn’t occur to her to take pictures and send to the police.
My theory is that Kate is behind everything that happens this season. That's a twist we'll find out in the next season. Kate is the beloved daughter of one of the most dangerous people in the world. She's guarded, she's looked after. How is it that she was attacked? I'm sure she orchestrated the attack. I also think she may have persuaded her boyfriend to get close to Joe to get to know him better and possibly use him in the future. And let's not forget that Kate's dad thinks she's more dangerous than he is. I think Kate is like Joe, but smarter. She probably used Joe to kill Tom.
What was the point of the conversation in the hospital where kate said 'we'll keep each other good'? Finally when we think joe can actually change this time, it gets back to square one. I mean he tried to kill himself when he realised no one's safe around him, while drowning he thinks he should have tried harder to get better, him and kate have that heartfelt conversation in the hospital, and then boom! its killer joe again. It just doesn't make sense. Its pretty convenient to end this season as 'this is who joe is', and if this is how they planned to end it, then they shouldn't have made joe go to such great lengths to be a better person.
What did u wanted him to do explain to teenagers that he is a good person now and then end up in jail because of them lol nice to see the Dark Joe back like in Season 1 did u really think Joe would have a fairy tale ending lol when Nadia was explaining he was an obsessive I got to know the writers didn't want him to change yet lol
I think when he was drowning was when he truly realized and accepted himself for who he was-an obsessive serial killer. That's when the rhys (in his head) and joe became one so it was crucial to the plot that he stopped being in denial about being this 'vigilante protector man'. I think the reason they went to such great lengths to show joe trying to be a better man is because we're watching the show from Joe's pov and he's trying his hardest to prove to himself that he's a good person and then realizes in the end that he's not and just accepts it. And I think we've established through the 4 seasons that joe will not change his patterns. I think when he told kate that they'll try to keep each other good he already knew that he had joined hands with his darker side and knew that kate would be able to help him clear his name better. Honestly, there's really not much of a redemption arc for him. He's always going to be Joe Golderg from season 1 with a distorted perception of love. The only difference now is that he isn't in denial anymore.
The whole point is that he is sick. You cant become a better person when you're a sick person, he's a killer. When will people start seeing him as he is and not find excuses for him cuz hes a cute white male
I like how it very much feels like the joe that was remorseful and hated himself for the things he’s done did die and the dark side of joe was able to fully take over after being revived, the old joe is dead, the darker joe is in control now.
Haha this shit is so easy to figure out and yet I see so many comments and anyone says anything at all about this, and this is what the writers are trying to say. There are 2 Joes, the bad one got born from the good one when Joe was a child, the good one always was there but asleep and the bad one was in control, the good one tried to fight and take control from the bad one after too much shit and the bad one wanted to come back later when Joe was in the water and lost his mind he kinda die and opened the door to the old Joe to take full and permanent control like before. The good one deserves to live and have a good life and I just hope Joe, the good Joe lives and can get to be happy as he did when he let Marienne go that day and when he tried to save her.
It seems like Nadia character getting caught was suppose to be Ellie’s trying to get Joe down, just based on the interview where Penn and Jenna ask if Ellie was supposed to go back to s4.
@@BrainPilot at least girl went to prison knowing she saved a womans life. But yeah , must have been gur wrenching for Marianne to find out what happened to that poor girl
Well she wanted to be a detective so bad she knew he was danger if she just kept quiet Eddy would be alive and she wouldn't be in jail not so smart after all is she 😂 Ms Sherlock homes can be a detective in jail
@Jewel Castle It's just a show lol y'all are afraid to say to say I like dark and crazy shows but I say it openly so what of course in real life Mr Joe would be counting the bars in jail and will be lifetime imprisoned lol stop taking a show so seriously I'm tired of rooting for heroes so let's see the Anti heroes have fun
I think next season Joe might notice Marianne's body was never found. I can imagine with all the power and influence he has, he could make her life a living hell once he finds out she's alive.
what intrigues me a lot is the sentence that says at the end he wants to change the world and all means are good including murder because it's easier and more practical the motives for joe's murders in s5 will be completely different from previous seasons and above all he has the power now a lot of power he could kill very important people ministers politicians ect believing he was doing good like in s4 he killed malcolm simon ect believing he was the vigilante of London in the end he will look exactly like kate's dad
@@Chadmlad exactly joe now fully assumes his personality the good and the bad and that he likes to kill for pleasure and the fact that he is kate want to change the world does not announce anything good for this one
This season was trues masterpiece on so many aspects. I'm still in stock especially about Katie's arc ,and don't get me started on poor Andrew, and NADIA. Joe is a TERRIFYING MONSTER .he ended that kid beside the pavement on board daylight! The gore! So unnerving yet so realistic, showing us the audience his true nature with no romanticised narrations. Exactly who he is: a dangerous serial killer. Also, can we talk about how disgusting Katie's father was with his incestuous vibes towards his own daughter? Its completely logical for Katie to turn out to be who she is ,and Joe's enables. Her monster of a father messed her up for Life. I knew she was too good to be true. But also, her giving these kids cancer? Yikes On a more serious note ,this season is also a great commentary about how the system is rigged from the beginning as it favours and protects the monster of thus world with the tools of money ,and power through it, and through networking. Money ,and power literally outturn justice, and there's no poetic justice as well. It's completely realistic, and that's what makes it even more terrifying to me.
Agree, but the part u mention at then end is something I dislike about the show. At its core, it’s apologia for liberal capitalism by crafting a story were a bad man is just taking advantage of/outrunning the system, not the system brewing the evil itself.
@@salutic.7544 I think that's a bit of an unfair critique only because the show itself, if you ask me, doesn't try to address liberal capitalism or systemic critiques. It's not about Joe or any of the others evading the system or taking advantage; It's a much more myopic character study on Joe. The rest of those elements only serve as backdrop to his internal narrative and sense of self. He can justify (some of) his crimes by adopting a self-righteous anti-rich/exploitation worldview, as well as love Kate for her alleged distaste for the exploitative practices of her peers. But the story doesn't seek to highlight in any meaningful degree how the system acts. So yes, the system actively brews evil, but that's not the story they're trying to address.
@@BrainPilot there was not one bad episode after finding out the theory about part 1 with Rhys being in joes head I kinda lost hope in this season but part 2 really saved this whole season by a loooong shot
Netflix splitting this season into two parts ruined it because everyone had time to figure it out between part 1 and part 2. The plot twist was a surprise but not really something almost everyone didn't already know. It's that or I ruined it for myself by reading too many theories
idk feels weird to me, don’t get me wrong i actually enjoyed the ending of the season however it was still weird to me bc when you think he’ll change n try n become a better person he jus goes back to square one realizing this is who he is and finally accepting it, but for me it kinda clashes with the love quinn story line. And ik he didn’t love her anymore bc she was “corrupt” and kept killing and pretty much resembled the thing he hated most about himself at the time as well as having fear of her and distrust but I think looking back at it, if he hadn’t met her yet and met her now instead, then he maybe prolly would’ve maybe love that side of her now and accepted it more then before. idk but that’s just me
Joe will never change 😂 his trauma is too deep. He’ll always justify it in his mind. His trauma is waaaaayyyy too deeply rooted. His character can’t be redeemed. It wouldn’t send a good message to the audience either. He’ll be caught by end of series 5, guaranteed. The producers/writers won’t let him ride off into the sunset. Even Penn said Joe is NOT a good person.
@@NileSWPhotography I disagree. The reason I liked part 2 so much is that joe finally stops justifying all his illegal actions as 'protecting the girl he loves' or 'saving' them from something that was never putting them in danger. Now that he's 'complete', he's understands he's a fucked up guy and accepts it. That Joker-esque smile at the end of the finale gave me chills. That being said, he's past redemption. If there's a next season (which I doubt), it'll feature a crueller, more callous Joe who's more in touch with his dark side, which the audience may/may not like.
Yeah, it's like right when he saw the real Love Quinn, he was almost immediately turned off by her whereas now when he sees that Kate can also do bad stuff, he just doesn't mind. Just like you mentioned, he now acknowledges his evil side. I need to agree that if he had met Love now, he wouldn't be as repulsed by her I guess. But then again, it is Joe we are talking about so he is not the most consistent guy out there. His actions and beliefs are not in sync.
YOU was absolutely worth waiting to watch the part 2 of this season. We saw the obsessive behavior of Joe even more and his bipolar disorder. I find it so unpredictable of Marienne actually being alive and I loved it. I did believe that Love could be alive but the way the series had shown it, it was much better. I wanted the happy ending that Pheobe had to. I already want a season 5.
I would not jump the gun and label him with bipolar disorder or any mental health diagnosis. Pretty ableist to just assume that. Please be careful putting serial killers in the same box as people with specific mental illness.. I say this as someone with bipolar disorder it is pretty insulting. Joe has never been diagnosed on this series. Sure we can make our own assumptions but just keep them to yourself. Basically he is insane and a stalker keep it simple and respectful to actual people with mental health diagnoses.
@@joybird144 I never assumed that he is a "normal" form of bipolar disorder. There are some steps in this mental illness and after they do something they can't remember it. And Joe this season, did show this behavior a lot. It is an assumption that could be wrong of mine but I personally reasearched in sites about the disorder. I wouldn't label others ableists just because of assumptions. I clearly did not normalize it that okay he's a serial killer but it's because of his disorder, but it could be that.
@@keeptaiwanfree hey, who says he had to be obsessed with only women? I like the way they did it because this was the first time his obsession did not give themselves willingly to Joe. He had to go about this desire completely different from what we're used to.
The best part about that reveal with how it turns out that the real Rhys was an innocent man while the guy that Joe was talking to was really a part of his psyche, just throws out the window a story where Joe is actually pretty much the hero who is out to take down this psychopath. Because that’s not how this show and his character work. Joe is not an anti-hero, he’s a villain.
My favorite Version of Joe was s4. He went from playing a vigilante type of killer,whos getting into trouble by accident, and vomits when he kills,To cold blooded serial killer with no remorse. He embraced his dark side instead of the writers giving him lame excuses to keep him likeable
@@zolaeight7574 They overdid it with him having remorse and trying to be good.After his 10th kill,even ted bundy would have known something is wrong😂😂😂
The ending was disgusting, just give justice to Marienne who goes through all of that and is still alive (but Joe thinks she’s dead). For me, there’s a need of a 5 and final season so Marienne could get her revenge and all the past girls too. He don’t deserve all of that in the end. What is the show teaching? You can kill anyone you want and destroy lives but you can change too and your past life would be forget? Lmao? Just marry a rich one so you can become someone better imo? Like what the fuck what this last episode… I just hope this was not the last season, the show could go for a last season more satisfying, but this was surely not.
I totally agree with u yes!! Like just went free just like that. No justice. I pray season should come with him paying for all he did. Cos I think killing is in his blood. And the way the season ended was not ok for me? What was it preaching. Didn't like this at all
No, it showed if you're rich you can keep murdering, r*ping and still get away with it. In the end he didnt say he was gonna do better ( like even if he said he wouldn't do better hes sick) he said killing will get easier cuz his psycho ass gf gonna cover his ass
Brilliant writing especially episode 9. Rhyss was the best character added to this series and I hope he returns for the 5th season. I love the story of Joe being obsessed with Rhyss and how his mind ended up manifesting his own version of him. I wish they had explored more on this.
I'm so conflicted with this season. I really loved all the twists and turns... But I really hoped this would have been the end of Joe. Hoped he would have k*lled himself because he finally accepted he's beyond help, and wanted to break the cycle. But the biggest gripe I have is that, yet again, Joe has found himself with all the money and connections he could ask for. It no longer feels like he's doing everything himself, but like the writers are just giving him every dues ex machina way out possible.
I haven’t watched this video yet! finished the season and I have some thoughts. Overall I thought the season was good. Im going to give it a 7.5/10. The things I thought were good: the new settings, the acting, and a creative plot. I liked the dissociative plot twist. I think it was well executed. Now let’s talk about the bad: at this point, it is absolutely absurd that Joe hasn’t been put in jail. How he continues to get away with his murders is just unbelievable. Every time someone is killed in this season the story just moves on and the characters don’t seem to care much AT ALL. The side characters on this show were not written well. I don’t know if the writers just have some sort of hate towards rich people or something but characters like Lady Phoebe, Sophie etc were not at all realistic. They also didn’t really add much to the plot. Take them out the show completely and we haven’t lost much in my opinion. Sophie’s brother Simon died and she didn’t care at all!! Very bizarre. Roald completely vanished in part 2. I didn’t even notice or even remember his character until he showed up at the end. Let’s go back to phoebe. OMG was her character arc DISAPPOINTING. At the start of the 2nd part of the season it seemed like she was getting some decent development. But then all of a sudden she just loses her mind??? then at the end she is stable enough to be working with kids in Thailand??? We never even found out what Joe said to her while drunk in part 1! I thought that would have turned out to be something important but I guess not. Adam turned out to be such a cartoony villain who’s death came out of nowhere as well. Nadia, she all of sudden gained suspicion toward Joe and somehow expected to catch or even murder Joe??? I don’t see how the characters in this show think they have a better chance at catching Joe than the police. But at the same time the police do seem pretty useless in this show….Nadia’s plan with Marianne was a bit weird too. Doesn’t Ketamine knock you out? So the fact she used it to revive Marianne was strange. ANOTHER disappointing character arc was the lady with the camera. She was just phoebes stalker??? Really?? I was hyped to see if she was the one who was finally going to expose him. Or if she was connected to Beck somehow. Speaking of beck, it was so nice to see her again. And love, although I was disappointed to get confirmation that she’s dead it was also nice to see her again. Kate is probably my least favourite love interest of Joe. Her personality is insufferable. And she doesn’t seem to have much emotions or care about pretty serious things. How did she not have a care in the world that Joe was killing people and possibly could have killed her father? His wife? How does she not feel like she’s in danger? Joe and Marianne are the characters that have the best writing in this season in my opinion. Penn Badgley put on an amazing performance. As usual. But I think it’s time for the show to be over. The part where Joe “kills himself” and jumps in the water would have been a perfect end for the show. How did he get out of that without any injuries btw? He jumped from rlly high up! It seems season 1 Joe is back and we are going to be starting ALL OVER AGAIN. I am not sure if I’m really looking forward to it
I agree w you 100%. The writing felt really lazy..i was thinking the whole 2. part of the season WHY they don't call the police?? Why they assume he's going to get away with it anyway? What kind of universe is that lol However, I have to admit that I'm hooked on the series either way.. This is my quilty pleasure no matter how lazy or unrealistic the story gets. I always find something in it that I truly enjoy and if Netflix cannot come up with anything new then my only reason will be Penn.. Watching his brilliant acting (plus his pretty face haha) is enough reason for me not to give up on YOU (see what I did there). I'm a simple gal 🤷🏼♀️
Spot-on, mate. I will say that I am also surprised with how they didn't show Kate's reaction to Joe telling his entire backstory. I did like Kate's story and it showed why her personality is the way it is. Yeah, I will agree that the character of Kate kind of was sort of lacking compared to the others (Beck, Love, Marianne), but I think they'll try to expand her character in the next (and potentially last) season. Absolutely agree with the weak side characters. IDK why Phoebe decided to make a dumb decision and ended up going back to her foolish ex. It felt like after her encounter with her stalker (of all people), she kind of had her mind cleared and then that power move she did when she rejected his proposal was great. ... Just damn that's not a good side story. LMAO and 100% on Roald like where the flip did he go?! A hunting trip when he admitted to having feelings for Kate? And then they introduced another dude like what? I do really hope all the characters that are still alive that have ties with Joe do come back to finally send this dude Joe away... like the Jesse Pinkman meme "HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!"
Remember that they are rich and completely disconnected from the real world. They don't care about anyone, and they treat ppl like crap. So Simon's sister not caring was normal for them.. joe elis good at getting away with murder. His charm is hos weapon..kate is fine with him killing because she has done bad things and she would feel like a hypocrite and judgemental.. i dont like kate much either
Why Candace hasn’t been mentioned puzzles me she was Joe first victim and obsession they mentioned her body with Love not saying but then nothing if this season 5 is going to where it all begun then season 5 needs to have Candace it’s criminal she was the first victim to comeback and make him admit his wrongs she needs her justice. Nadia needs to get out with Marianne help maybe Ellie and put Joe to justice I want to see them discover and free everyone framed Nadia can get justice for Eddie. I do wonder if Candace not being mentioned is a hint
Yeah I thought that too, Candace was his first obsession and the first person he thought he killed. But I also think it's cuz he didn't actually kill her it was Love.
@@junie1017 but he still kidnapped and ruin her life which he apologised I don’t get why she didn’t show up he went from obsessing, to hating to then realising what he done to her and she was the character that was suppose to rival him.
i think because he wasn't the one who actually killed her he doesn't blame himself for her death. he barely accepts responsibly for love and beck, he's definitely not feeling guilty about someone he technically didn't murder, very similar to delilah
Season 5 should end with Joe's mother returning and make him realise his feelings towards obsessions and women in general. Not some soft spoken "i should atone for this" with a blank face. Give us a full blown crying Joe in a institution.
People tell you who they are and we look away because it does not fit whatever fantasy we have going on. Joe has told Kate who he is and she thinks that it does not matter, but he will eventually discard her too.
Love the depiction of phoebe This show does such an amazing job showing phoebe's psychological decline and uprise. It shows you how being too nice to assholes really can destroy your life. People who don't have your best interests at heart will try to take advantage in their own self-interest. It was sad to watch a sweet girl lose some her friends, get kidnapped, drugged and manipulated into a marriage. But ultimately, she was not her mistakes. She's a good person who got taken advantage of and never had true healthy love. Glad they gave her a silver lining at the end.
With the references to Agatha Christie, I was REALLY hoping they were going to pull a "Everyone was involved" kind of plot twist! How cool would it have been for Joe to think Rhys was the only killer, only to realize that there were multiple players involved? (I was hinging on Nadia and Kate in particular). It would have done something new for the show and upped the stakes!
I don't like the use of the "Evil Alter" trope. It's taking real life conditions & treating them as flavour to the Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde story. Like all single usages of harmful tropes, it doesn't matter that it was a good twist & well written season overall, it still adds to the damaging myth of people with mental health problems being more dangerous is false & harms real people with these disorders. Maybe it's less damaging as they don't dwell on his illness for too long--& they are clear to show Joe has always been a bad person & this is just a way he processed it. But misrepresenting real illness just for a plot twist is cheap. We have seen Joe hallucinate (both under the influence & sober) before. But alters don't just pop out of nowhere, its very rare to just have 1 alter, they usually emerge with traumatic childhoods, and they are never just "an evil version of you" & that Mr Hyde trope makes people fear the illness like schizophrenia and sociopaths. Statistically, people with these kinds of massive mental illness are far more likely to be victims of crime and violence than be responsible for it. But media, books, tv shows, & movies don't represent that. Writers hear of these "scary sounding" conditions that are different to the "normal" way humans are and cheaply use them as plot twists and motivations for their media. The Marvel tv show "Moon Knight" actually represents dissociative identity disorder really well. (Assuming that Jake Lockley turns out to be a fully fleshed out personality like Mark & Stephen & not just an "evil alter")
Joe ended up being the people he despises the most, the MF rich. Also him ending up in New York makes me think S5 will be the last, for the circularity and I would not be surprised if his brother, mother, paco, karen or someone returns/ shows up! This season was good and ended well, and achieved exactly what I think it set out to do. That ending made me hate Joe now and never thought I would and as much as I still want to love him that ending throws me mannnnn, I did have an inkling it would twist this way tho!!! I also love how this show, shows you people don’t change
I feel like the twist of season 5 will be that Joe is locked away in a mental cage while his evil side has taken control and convinced himself that hes the integration of both. I say this because Joe acted Pure evil while before he always had a shred of humanity. He tucked away his humanity this time instead of His dark self. He has disassociate identity disorder. Because we know he is an unreliable narrator we don't know how many personalities he actually has at this point
4:25 god this just gave me goosebumps again. "That's not the key" then the angle switch gave me insane chills while watching. Had to rewind a couple times just to take it in!
Is it just me or anyone else lowkey hoping that Paco or Ellie (or both) return in season 5? Can you imagine Paco doing bad things (whether it's stalking or killing) because of what Joe taught him when Paco was younger?
It would be stupid if joe gets caught, he should be finally happy with kate and kill his mother in finale who started this, joe did it for his mom the first time and she completely abandoned him and made him into this, joe finslly got peace now, it should end happy for joe❤️
I WANT MORE RHYS AND THE SHOW RUNNER CONFIRMED THEY ARE TRYING TO BRING ED SPELEERS BACK AND HOLY SHIT THE THING I FEARED THE MOST CAME TRUE .... Rhys is a hallucination but shit I got so hooked in the story that I accepted it and enjoyed the Rhys and Joe dynamic ......
me too! I think some of the higher points of this season was the dynamic between Joe and Rhys, even if it was all in his head lol. That and Marianne parts felt so much more interesting than the rest
I think it’s terrifying that they highlight how being rich you can literally set an innocent person up and money will make you essentially the most important thing, freedom.
Guessing season 5 will be Nadia coming out of prison for revenge. Her and Marianne teaming up for a smackdown? (probably other previous cast survivors also) Now Joes so famous he can never run away again. Plus it'll be a cool dynamic with evil kate on his side and him going back to his original NYC bookstore.
@@KillerbyePVP They showed her being visibly angry at Joe's public image. Everything in a show is usually relevant to the plot, so the writers want us to know she's mad. Feels like a strong hint she has unfinished business. Either way, I'm imaging season 5 to be the last, now he's fully integrated himself, he's ready for a final showdown. Interested to see what they do with the character now he's leaning more evil, gonna be tough to make him as likable as in previous seasons.
I think next season might be the last ,and he might end up in prison the cop who found his piss is still after him ,and now secrets out that Joe's alive.
Thank you, Thank you Thank you. Everything about your thoughts, ideas about your reviews make our watching even that more enjoyable. Even your voice is calming and relaxing . Many thanks will continue to follow and enjoy. Stay safe 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
twists were mind blowing, i really liked the difference between part 1 and 2. we saw him strugle like a baby then handling things like a pro. framing nadia part was psychotic, he was evil. i thought i was ready to let "you" go but i want to see evil joe one more season. penn badgley is growing which is amazing to watch
I loved this season. Although part 1 was weird, part 2 was brilliant! We really got to see Joe at his mental breaking point. Seasons 1, 2, 3, all made me feel bad for Joe even though he's a psychopath. Now I hope season 5 is the final season & that it puts Joe behind bars.
In the first part, when Nadia is trying to get the letter from malcolm and she’s looking for the key, she ends the conversation by saying “I won’t break in. Not yet” alluding to her breaking and entering of joes house later on
Next season predictions. Kate so have him kill for her and he does with no conscience. Maryanne after Joe and testifies for daliah. Exposing joe to the world. Kate ends up resenting joe because she blames him for her dark side the way joe did love. And realizes she fell for another version of her dad.
Anybody pick up on the fourth wall break spoiler in ep 7 giving away the twist more than they already did? Kate's dad talking to Joe... "Part 2 is You"
Is it just me or the aftermath of Marienne can be viewed as foreshadowing to her demise? The room where Marienne is with her daughter be symbolic to the "afterlife"? A happy place of great memories as you pass. And given how much resources Joe possesses now, eventually he will find out if shes still alive?
No I think it was already showing glimpses of her telling her daughter the story while she was trapped in a cage. It foreshadowed her not actually dying. Eventually in the end you see her in the same room she’s telling her daughter the story.
@@yoquese365 that's why I said that we don't need season 5😂it would be happier to see joe living a happy life and with a happy ending if there will be a season 5 then, I am not gonna watch that.
@@soapoperaz Apparently there were "river guards" watching for falls, meaning people do that a lot more than we think, so he's just lucky on that regard
You missed a lot of meaning in the show. Rhys was no longer separate from Joe, they were in the same reflection, he integrated his dark parts. The title of the show plays on that - obviously.
One thing that’s confusing to me is the difference in how he reacted to Kate and Love both doing horrible things. Kate admitted to being responsible for the children who got cancer which is something I think Joe in the earlier seasons would have been repulsed by since he loved kids. He seems to love Kate for accepting his past actions and still loving him regardless but Love did the same from the very beginning. Joe also mentioned how killing would be much easier now that he had Kate’s money and influence but the Quinn family could have done the exact same thing considering they were also a wealthy and prominent family and covered up murders for Love. He was disgusted when love wanted to frame Ellie for Delilah’s murder even though love promised the Quinn family lawyers were going to take care of her but killed Eddie and framed Nadia with the help of Kate. These are the only things bugging me about this season is that love was devoted to him in more ways than Kate and proved that and he was never appreciative or grateful but it seems like he’s appreciative to Kate for doing all the things love did first and did better?? I don’t know I’m not really liking the dynamic with Kate if he was gonna go full psycho and have a Bonnie and Clyde like relationship with someone it should’ve been Love.
This season was just about Joe finally accepting himself and not trying too hard to act like he is a good person when he knows he’s not. With Love, Joe was trying too hard to be the “good guy” while Love had fully embraced herself and past so this didn’t sit well with him as he was trying to paint a good picture of himself meanwhile Love reflected everything he truly was which he hated that’s why he didn’t love her as he now loves Kate. With Kate, he has accepted everything he is and has embraced it without shame and that’s why he loves her because he finally loves who he sees on the mirror (Rhys) after being in denial in each and every season before season 4. It’s a true meaning of ‘you can’t love others when you don’t love yourself’
Joe is just batsh*t crazy and you cant understand the mind of a psychopath no matter how hard you try. We can just be shocked and disturbed. But nothing they do make sense. Just when you think you understand, they show you that you don’t
4:39 Correction, Marienne is the second person to get out alive from the glass cage, the first one was in season 2, Will Bettelheim, the hacker/ passport DIY guy.
nadia’s involvement felt pretty natural because she’s curious and young and stupid even though she’s smart. joe also caught her trying to break into malcolm’s flat in part 1
