You won’t like this Printer, but it’s actually really good! (Form 3+ Review Conclusion) 

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I hear “chipped cartridges” and i think of the burden we have with the ink cartridges in inkjet printers

We just received 25 cartridges of resin from formlabs, and NONE of them are recognized by the form2 machines we use for production. According to formlabs ( after diagnosis) they forgot to program the chip

You bring up a lot of great points. The Form 3 is definitely a printer optimized for a more professional environment, and not necessarily for hobbyists!

My dad had a $20K 3d printer. I had my $200 ender 3. They were comparable. Except he needed reliable, repeatable parts without having to baby sit the machine. That's what you pay for. In business time is money.

I think this video is pretty spot on (coming from somebody who has worked with a Form 3 in the past). You are paying for the "It just works" factor, and it quite good at that. Yes, everything is super proprietary, but this is meant for professional use in engineering labs and the like, and this will 100% end up costing less than paying engineers to screw around with cheaper machines. Combine that with their very nice cloud management interface, as well as Form wash and Form cure (both are great BTW and makes cleaning parts a breeze), excellent PreForm model slicing software, and the interchangeable resin tanks (expensive but 1000% worth it), this is an absolute winner for business customers using this for rapid prototyping and the like.

Have you compared the resin tank and cartridge weight to the remaining resin in the dashboard after all your prints? I have with the grey resin an under-estimation. So the printer claims it's empty but actually still has about 150gr in it. But way worse on the clear resin: The dashboard claims i still have 400ml left, but my cartridge if already completely empty! (multiple cartridges printed of both with pretty consistent errrors). Also on the time estimation, this is always a massive under-prediction in the slicer. So i plan all my prints for the next few days. And then am constantly behind on my planning since all the predictions are off. Those two issues to me make this printer terrible for production/professional work! They are a constant annoyance in my job and support has never helped me more than just sending back url's of manual pages that are besides the point! (also, of the last 5 cardridges and 3 resin tanks: 2 cardridges had leaked inside the bag upon arrival. 3 had a bite valve that was completely shut and had to be slit open with a razor blade. 1 tank had a fawlty resin sensor (the arm was locked in place and filling the machine almost made the resin flow over into the machine). And lastly 1 other of the tanks had a magnet in the wiper in the wrong oriëntation whereby the printer constantly claims this wiper has come loose. So yeah, not to great of an experience i've had with them.

We have one in our dental office, I agree that its more of a "Prosumer" market. It is quite literally, set and forget for the most part. We print out orthodontic models for our patients, and create retainers for them. Since getting a form 3b its basically been flawless. They kind of have the market cornered in the "prosumer" aspect with the service plans and genuinely helpful customer support (seriously, they overnight parts for things that need fixing without a fuss). Plus their software is dead simple to use, you can literally onboard someone on how to use the printer in a little under 1 hour. The biggest issue is the price, and the size of the damn printer, it is freaking large and has an enormous footprint.

Well at least with the tracking and inventory management, they're making the DRM useful. Wonder if anyone will bother cracking it to sell half-price resin refills?

Hey Thomas, there is still a open moden on the form3. Not supersupported but you can buy a small usb to fool the material chip and set the material you want...even refill them...

I agree, this is very much a product for companies to use. Easy to use and train users for, a self contained environment limiting contracting requirements for service, and higher cost. While I will definitely stick to machines that are enthusiast oriented, these machines have a purpose, and move the industry forward. These types of machines are what will make 3D printing mainstream by making it easy for the average person.

I use a form 3b+ and a 3L in my work and it's really not a machine for everyone, but when you get used to the practicality of a form, it's annoying to use another resin printer.

Very well thought through, very convenient to handle, very expensive, completely locked-in: The Apple of 3D.

So what happens when you refill a cartridge with compatible resin?

Great video Tom! I think you did a great job covering the walled garden without getting hung up on it any time. Nice work!

The form 3 resins are much less smelly and are also well engineered for prototyping.

5:44 Nice...

Everything is chipped, and they suggest to unscrew the cap of the tank to fill the vat. How the printer cope with that? Is there a way to bypass the chip? What if you spill the vat? Empty the vat back in the tank? Chips don't make life easier, they just force you to buy more when you still have plenty.

If it wasn't so expensive, I'd visit that garden sometimes; walls or not.

Can I refill the empty form labs 3 resin cartridges with some aftermarket resin ???

I'm using my Form 2 machine to produce products, which are used in the racing car environment

Just the video I needed. Lightly looking into 3D printing for various reasons, and this video tells me that this is NOT the one for me. Great machine, good print quality but it is a printer for Pro use, not hobbyist. I did send away fro my 'free' part from formlabs, as I am still curious, and it may help me decide if I really want my own printer of any kind, or just pay to have parts printed. - Cheers

would be nice to share some stuff you printed and a bit more thoughts

Is there perhaps a program via formlabs to return empty resin cartridges? So well designed, apart from a few software items (eg the time of use of your cartridge) the rinse tray, and the support issue. it's just a shame they turned it into a landfill generator. As a corporate tool, walking into a noxious fume source presents a serious safety risk that should be presented in the sell phase, its a no brainer upsell source.

I'm curious, are there any stats out there regarding cause of printer use? What I mean by that is, are resin printers being used for visually stunning prints more than mechanically useful prints? Same with FDM, are more people using them for mechanically useful prints over visually stunning prints? I find resin printer reviews interesting but not interested in one due to the liquid aspect of it all, I like the 'inert' materials of FDM prints, and how usually you can use the part the instant the print stops and you take it off the bed.

Excellent review!!

I hear chipped and think that price will steadily increase. Because it will be the only resin recognized by the printer

We made an extensive analysis and, well, Formlabs' laser SLA it's a NO GO! Though it's exquisitely well engineered even over engineered. But the main point, and this is the mayor flaw and a huge miss is the sloooooooooooowness of the process. And if we assume that this is for "corporate users", well those guys don't have time to waste. Not to mention the unjustifiably overpriced resin. Since Formlabs claims practically zero adhesion force due to their wired and overengineered "print-head-resin-wat" system they use a awful lot of support pillars and structures wasting huge amount of preciouses resin. Bottom line, if you want to buy an exquisite piece of engineering, well GO FOR IT! If you are buying an everyday workhorse that is fast, cheap and has a low cost of ownership, GO ELSEWHERE! Even or specially if you are a "corporate user".

The Form 3+ produces way better parts than any budget printers for engineering parts, interference fits are always perfect on the form.

We bought the biggest version in my company some months ago, the sour surprise was discovering that the bed only last 72 hours with some resins

There are alot of negative comments on the Form 3 here. I'm an engineer and I enjoy tinkering but when I'm at work churning out designs and prototypes to meet datelines, I expect the prints to be 100% successful and the printer to be as hassle free as much as I can so I can put all my focus and effort on the design and not the printing process.

I feel like this printer may be in a limbo state. The material is too expensive for a small businesses, but for one bigger, more expensive printers seem more appropriate

Three title changes in less than a day

I want to hate this machine, but have to admit that it has its place. Especially in a business environment where people who aren't in this hobby are using it. There's still going to be a learning curve, but imagine throwing an Elegoo or Anycubic unit at someone who never used any type of 3D printer before (let alone a resin printer) and expecting them to make it all work. This flattens the learning curve - at a price, of course.

thank you Thomas

So all the cool DIY stuff for 3d printing removed .-. For : Ease of use

I've had to fight this kind of thing a lot in my 3D printing shop. Lots of customers with Flashforge, QidiTech, and other rip-offs of the old Replicator. And you know my history here...these are the companies that caused Bre pettis to close-source MakerBot and essentially steal what he could from the communities he built on the shoulders of. Despite my absolute hatred towards this kind of thing - for my customers, there is some benefit in buying a machine that already has all the kinks worked out, and doesn't have any firmware upgrade paths, etc. Obviously I don't suggest it to any of them, and my own biases have caused some hurt feelings of those people who had already chosen those machines when I tell them why I cannot work on them.

Make all one vid next time?

Yes It's aimed to companies and that the law in many countries requires non touch or minimiezed touch with the resin. Also strict restrictions on ventingt that the machine cannot stand for or come with. No private customer will drop 5000eur on a machine for just printing at home, that just don't make any sense thinking. For detailed prints there is a resin category for just that. We've used their tough 1500, flexible80, Durable and Draft. Vast difference in material detail and performance. I feel this review misses the goal abit and resting heavy on leaning on a bug in the software on a pre-production form3+? Hmm...sorry

Nice

$175/L instead of $50/L for something like BLU At an operator wage of $25/hr, the worker would need to spend 5 hours of cleaning the VAT (or maintenance) per every liter that is consumed. This would doom any printer's value. This has a negative ROI, not only will it not pay itself off, it will actually cost more in the long run. Terrible for production or running a print shop. I can maybe see this if a Doctor, Dentist, or high salary person with a small amount of 3D printing experience would want this machine to test their prototype next day.

I won’t buy anything that is locked into using a software, firmware, or hardware. It’s a shame because there are some great machines out there that are ruined by things such as that

8:23 as per xkcd 376, EPOCH FAIL!

A few years ago when I was doing a lot of freelance work I bought a Form 2. Initially I was impressed with it, but as time wore on it proved to be buggy and an unpleasant experience (due to working with resin and post processing). Formlabs was selling reconditioned F2's until recently, but is already floating the end of life date out there for F2 components and consumables. After spending several thousand dollars on this thing and only having it a few years this is just total BS. I'm glad I can play with open mode and will probably mod and hack mine as needed. I'll never buy another Formlabs machine. Just wait a few years and they will drop support for this thing as soon as the Form 4 comes out.

$199 per kg for resins.. OUCH..!

Please do not support DRM in 3D printing.

I hated the proprietary ink cartridges on the old inkjet printer so this seems like the same going backwards. This is the single definitive reason not to get such a product, for me at least.

Ahh good ole closed ecosystems.

nice 😏

chipped cartridges... PTSD flashbacks to inkjet printers. That's a hard pass.

Just make the DRM advert one video and less of the title changes, were they not clicky enough.

One of the worst printer I have ever used. So expensive and so bad quality. Every second print is misprint. Almost every day it does not print whole stl file. Always something missing. If somebody has this printer just for review I understand why you like it but if you have to use it every day it's every day fight.

"Hey! Let's try and get more money out of this product by drm'ing and locking everything! Call it a "Pro", simplify the system (but don't fix problems or give troubleshooting guides) and nobody is going to question why our printer is less capable than the cheaper "consumer" variants!"

so, drm? pass!

$3500. I love your channel but really!

Wow your right I hate it

Very cool printer but definitely not for the average mortal.

it's good, if you're rich or with a wealthy company

Out of time printer. 😩

🇺🇦

On some level, it makes sense. If you're in a professional environment, bean counters don't want you to spend time tinkering with the printer. There's little or no understanding that this is a completely new way to prototype and manufacture objects, the predominant idea is that you feed the machine 3d data, push a button, and a bunch of things come out. Everyone who's worked on 3d printing knows that's not how it works, not even on a Stratasys machine, but pro machines get as close to that as possible, and it's much easier if you use the manufacturer's materials rather than 3rd party materials. Yes, there is a lot of attempted vendor lock-in going on, but there's also the fact that they don't want to be held liable when 3rd party materials don't play nice.

Never thought I'd become this person... So here I go... First

Cricky Tom, you're giving this the hard sell ;-)

The quality of life features sound amazing, but the cost at which they come, definitely not worth it for hobbyists.

@Thomas Thanks for being transparent about the DRM. Many other reviewers tend to keep that in Formlabs favor on the down-low ! It is a great system, that is literally plug-and-play, but at the cost of tinker-flexibility and cost. Ideal for people that are not cost sensitive and need very reliable, repeatable results.

I got excited. but then the DRM was mentioned and I immediately considered this thing a trashcan.

Chipped cartridges and a totally closed ecosystem at a time where the world is still suffering a supply chain catastrophy with no end in sight, is a real turn off. Especially at the small business/startup price point.

I don't use cartridge ink jet printers and I don't use cartridge 3D printers. I do not use chipped CNC mill and I do not use chipped laser engraver/cutter. I physically disabled the chip for my refrigerator's water filter. I do not play the razor game and my car's gas is not chipped. Formlabs is a big no. The resin cost alone is disgusting.

I have a form 3 (not the plus, but I do have the springy quick release build plate upgrade) and use it mostly for printing minis. I’ve used masked lcd resin printers back to the OG photon. I love the form 3. The main reasons: 1) as you noted, it just works. I don’t have to worry about settings, ambient weather, etc. I don’t get print fails. Everything just works. 2) the resins may be expensive, but they are generally higher quality stuff than the cheaper msla resins. 3) it’s a real laser, which is not better for the finest details but the two advantages for me of a laser are first that you get analogue curves rather than voxels which looks better on my preferred chibi style mini prints, and second laser resin can be less reactive to UV than lcd/lamp resins, which in my experience means it doesn’t react to ambient UV light the way msla resins do. (Btw: if you completely clean the prints, you really don’t have to post cure the grey prints). I can afford to pay for the above, and I like to say “I carefully considered the cost and benefits of the form 3 and then went ahead and bought one anyway,” but i really do love the printer. I have an epax e10 sitting next to it that I pretty much stopped using after getting the form 3. It is funny getting the business oriented communications from them, however.

This is the type of machine you'd hire someone to fix. It's like going back in time to use the old office Xerox machine with the code for use and the contract for refilling the ink.

Too bad you weren't sent any tough 2000 resin to test. I've found it to be extremely well named and much much more resilient than any other resin I've come across. The entire Formlabs package is unfortunately too cost prohibitive for me to get into so I'm on the hunt to find a good analogue to use with Elegoo or other "open" printers, whether that's a single solution or a mix.

I really don't like the new 10-12 min format. This could be one video instead of three separated.

bruh $177 for the base resin is mad

Not that I'm the target audience for a $4000 printer, but chips suck. Epson ruined it for ever and I won't ever buy something with chipped media.

If inkjet printers can give us any hint at all is that proprietary cartridges, especially ones with chips, can be REALLY bad for the customer

Regardless, the background is lit.

You buy it, and you buy something you'll never own !! You won't be able to repair it if something goes wrong after the warranty time etc.... just a bad locked environment ! Anyway, thank you for this interesting video :-)

I really want one of these. But the expense is just too high. The laser technology appeals to me as it allows for a greater variety of resins, most of which are better for engineering... but its just so damn pricey.

I know that the biggest 3D printing service in my country skipped on the SLA machines and went with mSLA consumer level machines... those closed systems have a lot of bell and whistles but are essentially slower and often don't print as well as the newer high res mSLA printers. The only upside of closed systems are the materials, but then again the formlabs materials aren't what the company hypes them up to be, formlabs resins aren't that much better than other comparable open system 405nm resins. Companies like stratasys actually do a lot more R&D on materials and for some specific applications it can mean a lot, but personally, I wouldn't choose formlabs for anything, hobby or professional use. Maybe their solution for dental parts is cheaper than the competitors, just that.

So are the resin tanks refillable. Or a trade in program like empty return for credit towards full?

You cant clean out the tank and use another Formlabs material in it. Once you use that tank, the tank is coded to that resin. The form wash and form cure are very much worth it, that finish kit is left over from the days of the Form 2.

I support and I upkeep the local school's printers.. We started out with FDM printers in the whole school. No problem, doors on printers in the elementary school helped protect the little kids, etc. Now they are starting to buy good but cheap-o resin printers. And the teachers know NOTHING about resin. I was almost screaming "where are your gloves!" When they called me in to help. Their excuse was it is water based so not an issue, just wash hands afterwards! Omg, they dont get it. I told them NO KIDS even the older ones, without full gloves, goggles, etc.. This is something I never foresaw... The formlabs closed systems would be better for these situations, but compared to low $300 cost of an Elegoo system, They will never be put into schools like the one I support for my own kids. All I can do is make noise so the little kids only get exposed,to the FDM printers. :(

Buy it ....hack it....And print like you stole it.

Or instead of changing resin you easily can buy multiple printers for that price. And after three to for refills you already have paid of an other printer. Seems to be an professional only kind of thinking and product.

Three part series on a printer that's not for us in your audience. Love it! 😅🙌

Having used Formlabs machines before, your assessment is on point. They are not made for hobbyists, they are professional machines, where the price is not a concern. Where time is money it makes a lot more sense. Details like checking for incompatible resin in the vat and hiding things for the sake of reliability would annoy hobbyists, but save companies money.

I've run into that tank lifetime issue too. The chip got confused and thought it started being used at the UNIX begining of time. January 1st, 1970.

This seems like one of those products where you are totally dependant on the manufacturer to be able to continue using the product? What if the company ceases to exist, or its servers goes down? And in those cases....getting workable resin, and using it without their servers, etc.? Will the unit continue being operational without the company?

Walled garden.... You mean like Apple products. No probably even more hardcore than that.

So it's a printer for for-profit companies that recuperate that premium through their customers. Check. 🤣

From the perspective of a professional corporate user, this machine is just a lot of marketing promises that don’t deliver. What is the fundamental purpose of a 3D printer? Making great prints! Do Formlabs printers make great prints? NO! The prints are marginal at best. The surface finish is embarrassing for a 2022 era SLA printer. The supported side of the print generally is a nightmare to clean up. The resins have all sorts of pooling and build up issues I don't see on other systems. All the eco system and user experience aspects are great, really, they got all that right. I will give them credit there. But for a $3500 machine, the prints are extremely disappointing. That’s the bottom line. I would be more than willing to absorb the added overhead of their proprietary materials and dedicated vats if the printer delivered spectacular results. But it does not. And it’s FAR from 100% successful. The system does not deliver on the promise of automated positioning and supporting with Preform. You will still get plenty of failures if you just rely on Preform. The elastomer resins are particularly problematic in that regard. “You won’t like this Printer, but it’s actually really good!” is not an accurate assessment of this product. It’s not actually really good, even in a corporate environment.

3:05 Could I buy a new bottle of the same thing and re fill it ? Or is the chip working like the strabismus type printer ?

Thanks for these videos, I am starting a job that uses them so its good to know the ins and outs.

I own a form 3 and the "chip lock" feels like I don't really own the machine , cannot even try third party resin (no open mode) and it is getting more restricted with newer version , they separated/restricted bio resins , even though the machine is fully capable for printing with them and started a separate higher priced model . it is not an open machine for hobbyist , but a business machine for professionals.

I used to work at a place that had large-format inkjet printers for engineering drawings (blueprints), and the idea of saving a few bucks by using generic cartridges would never occur to anybody. Between possibly damaging the printer and the potential cost of six-figure-salary workers waiting for prints, I'd expect to be fired. In such cases I'd suggest that DRM is welcome just to avoid counterfeits.

I quite like closed ecosystems where everything just works seemlessly. I would pay extra for that convience

Wow that resin is insanely expensive

That's why I never go with a closed ecosystem like this. They are like Apple products, pointless and overkill. These type of machines are not for real world production environments, they are not adaptale, very expensive to maintain, unflexible, and hard to get supply for. Waste of invenstment imo.

Yeah, NO. This is what most inkjet printers do, with stupid chipped ink carts that can't be refilled, must only use their brand with the cost at times being more then the darn printer itself. It's a freaking greedy money grab, that's all it is, I mean damn look at the prices, almost $200 for ONE CARTTRAGE for that? When I can buy the same amount of resin for around $20?! Forget buying a single cartridge of resin, I'd rather buy a 2nd resin printer! Many brands of inkjet printers these days (like the one I currently own) are moving away from the stupid cart and using tanks that you just buy the ink and add it in, letting you use any brand or style of ink. That's how resin printers started with their vats and buying the resin in bottles, now it looks like they're taking a step backward to the stupid ink cartridge style. No thank you.

I manage a brand new animal rescue facility. We are a non-profit and rely on donations and such for our program. At our last meeting, I brought up the fact that there might be a lot of things we could save money on by purchasing an affordable printer. I was wondering if you could recommend one that would be affordable, reliable, and pretty easy to operate. I've never used one before but after watching a few of your videos you make it look easy so I'm in. I just need to convince the old school and that's why I need help. Hope you read this.