DO NOT contact anyone on telegram claiming to be me. I am not running giveaways and I will not ask you for money. They are scammers and spammers and they want to steal your money and personal information.
So interesting how easy it is for RU-vid to ban comments with certain keywords or user names but can't seem to pattern-match these cut-and-paste spammers. Also, Bandrew, I haven't eaten in weeks. Has my gift shipped yet?
@@Podcastage I don't think it makes so much of a difference as the other mic's. SM7b seems to be more consistent. Probably, better in an untreated room. I'm sure any treatment does make some kind of difference, but I didn't notice as much of difference with it as I did the other mic's.
Thank you for making this video! One of the more "interesting" aspects of getting into Voice Acting was finding out what materials and surfaces actually create issues during recording. When I first started about 8 years ago I made so many mistakes. Now, I just accept that almost anything going into my booth needs to be treated. Over the years I've discovered boom arms benefit from adding Pipe Insulation (it is dirt cheap, easy to cut and fits around almost all mic stands and boom arms), Tablets need to be angled away from the mic to prevent sibilance, mics made of brass can resonate, some cheap pop filter foam actually increases sibilance, flat surfaces can benefit from Shelf Liner/Yoga Mat material (also dirt cheap and very easy to cut into custom shapes), headphones can require graphite or WD-40 on the hinges, zippers on clothing can rattle, and glass/metal water bottles benefit from foam koozies to prevent sibilance.
This might be the single most important practical demonstration you've done. As I'm always banging on about in comment sections, once you have the correct microphone _type, placement and environment_ for your application, you're most of the way there, and the other details are far less important. A large majority of decent mics (of the correct type) will work for a large majority of voices a large majority of the time.
Thank you very much Helman, I appreciate the kind words. Mic technique is a large portion of the battle, and your room is another portion of the battle. Well said.
For livestreams/work calls, booming an SDC above my desk had so much reflection that I had to switch it to a desk stand pointing up. I know that booming from above is generally preferred to avoid the nasal quality that you get micing from below, but avoiding that bounce was so much more significant a change that it doesn't feel like a tradeoff at all!
For everyone that says they can't hear a difference. Try listening with a different set of headphones. I hear a huge difference. I'm going to try a different set of headphone too. Maybe the sound signature of the headphones or earbuds you are using makes a difference.
Oh man there's such a phase-y effect on the lav with the desk reflection. That's incredible. I'm changing desks soon and will make sure to have a good surface mat.
One thing I have noticed working with so many streamers is when you have to treat a multi-monitor set up. The towel recommendation has always been, unironically, one of the quickest and most efficient fixes that I've found on top of directionality as well. I think something that can fix the multi-monitor set up is actually quite genius that I've found with watching this and can't think of many use cases besides voice-over and music recording where the sound panels on the desk wouldn't be useful! One thing I have tested and recommended was actually measuring out the monitors one uses and cutting up extra moving blankets that one can get from the typical bulk order to stick onto the monitors themselves to help with the issue (my typical professional use cases that I work with would be livestreamers). Great video~!
Thank you very much for the kind words. Multi-monitor setups are nightmares..I used to run one, and now I'm a single monitor scrub because I would rather have less screen real estate as opposed to more reflections. Best of luck on the streaming advice.
Thanks for the video. You are highlighting an oft-overlooked issue. It is easy to jump up to more expensive gear, but then we miss the opportunity of getting the most out of the gear we already have by learning how to use them more efficiently. Only to not get the most out of our upgraded gear as well. Wasting and more wasting. To my ears, the best solution was to use the directionality of the dynamic sm7b along with good mic technique (including close proximity. Then certainly, adding the soft materials made a significant difference, and if you need super clean recordings, it may be worth it to "treat" your desk. If treating your desk seems a like too big a trade-off for functionality, then this extra step may not be that important to you anyways. Well done Bandrew!
I have a Glorious XXL Pro Gaming Mousepad covering the main area of my desktop, when I put that on it helped with the first reflections, and it's great for day-to-day use. I also hung an 8'x12' 12 lb sound blanket on the wall behind my desk, have curtains I can draw over the windows and enough odd-shaped furniture in the room for dispersion, as well as thick carpeted floors and porous wood ceilings. I noticed in your overhead shots you have your audio monitors forward of your computer monitor. This is key as well and my setup is the same. I think I could benefit a little bit by installing bass traps and maybe panels on the wall behind me but for now I'm pretty happy with the sound in my studio. Thanks Bandrew for bringing the audio knowledge, the differences you illuminate are audible even through $25 earbuds.
Yes, I agree. Listening recording of interviews with headphones, sometimes its make me overwhelming with those echoes. In normal situation human ear (nerval system) do filter echoes and another disturbing sounds out of focused sound. That for people do (also) be amazed when they do hear them own voice.
Wow, I knew my desk setup would probably be a significant contributor to my recording quality, but I didn't know how to fix it. Thank you for making this video!
I don't think I'll put a blanket on my desk, but this was an interesting case study on how directional patterns on microphones can affect your sound! I feel like there's always a debate on whether or not having your microphone right-side up, upside-down, or to the side of you matters at all. This video makes a good point on how acoustic reflections might make a small difference if you're not in a recording studio and just sitting at your desk (like a lot of content creators).
This is 100% true. A monitor is effectively a huge wall of plastic. So we often troubleshoot with VAs who are wondering why their audio sounds so boxy and then we discover that the mic is literally touching the monitor - or is very near it. But it's effectively a massive wall of plastic. And if there's too many hard surfaces around a mic, it's going to bounce off that. You can troubleshoot this by getting a binder and putting it behind your mic. A monitor is that but it's a big a wall of plastic too.
I think having a huge mouse pad, 45 inches, covering the entirety of my desk also improves the sound quality of my mic (a shure mv7). I've never thought about it, but now that I've seen your demos, I believe it has an impact in my case, so thanks Bandrew!
Such a great video. Thanks a lot! I was using an Austrian Audio CC8 directly besides my monitor (just for video calls). The sound was really bad. Then I moved the mic 20 cm to the front, away from the screen, and the sound was much better then. The difference was huge -- even larger then the already very prominent differences in your examples.
@@Podcastage The distance of the mic in roughly the same. The problem was that the capsule was super close to the screen, which acted as a reflective surface.
I concur with your observation that directional mics make the biggest difference. When I’m using a headset mic I use a ModMic 4 with the switchable omni and cardioid capsule. Typically, the tone quality of the Omni capsule absolutely destroys that of the Cardioid capsule, but after A/B testing the two (and especially after hearing how Zoom was processing it) the Cardioid capsule was the clear choice when sitting at my desk (at least when I don’t have sound blankets up)-the omni capsule was badly affected by reflections even though it was just off the corner of my mouth. You know… I think I’ll go record a comparison in case it’s of use to anybody. Read more
Thank you for your tests. I just found out I like a bit of room sound if I only listen to a voice. While the sdc gets cleaner with treatment is the moset pleasing to me when you have nothing on your desk at low volumes in my headphones and on higher volumes I do like it when you face away from your desk. It "feels" like it is a bit "droning" when the sound "to clean". I did not like the lavalier mic in any situation in comparison to the sdc.
Oh hey! I have the same mouse. It's a weird one. Still can't decide if I like it. But we're here for the sound. I am happy that you have managed to make this video. Thank you!
Wow, this vid is enlightening! But me, rather than throwing the blanket, prefer speaking with my condenser mic about two inches from my mouth. I find the reflections aren't bothering anymore that way.
First time you switched between sitting in front of the desk, I didn't hear any difference. After 2 or three more I could. Now I'm thinking I need to sound proof my room and desk. EDIT: Oh thank goodness. I got to the SM7B test, and it makes way less difference there. I'll probably be fine with my Procaster. The lav mic sounded terrible all the way around.
Yes sir. When you’re close micing, your signal to background noise ratio is significantly better. We’d likely hear the same result with the Neumann if I was 4 inches away as opposed to a foot away. But you’re most likely fine without treating your desk.
Hey brother. I just clicked an ad at the start of your video. RU-vid got me! (men's fragrance specials from local NZ big shop - I think maybe our version of what you might call a big box store?)
@Podcastage I can stop watching fragrance videos any time. I just haven't chosen to yet. (the rabbit hole got me good). I was about due for another rabbit hole (having done photography, microphones and League of Legends already) :-)
Hey, man I was thinking the very same thing lately. Stretch a piece of white cloth and get a silent small projector for PC screen. Tim in Dublin Ireland
it's crazy how much acoustics affect vocal audio. I live in the worst place for vocals and honestly some of the best quality I've achieved out of many higher end microphones is with a Rode NTG-1 ($200). It's narrow pick up field works really well and sounds great even for a small diaphragm! Wanting to do voice acting though I think I have my eyes set on an Audio Technica AT4047/SV. They cost quite a bit though. Still cheaper than a TLM though lmao.
A lot of the learnings in this video were things I already assumed, so I was glad to see a real world test confirming it. I've been fighting this with my setup at home for a while as I have 3 screens in front of me (laptop screen + 2 external monitors) all sitting on a rather reflective desk. I also hate having to put on headphones/headsets for calls as I find I'm much more comfortable and speak more naturally when my ears aren't obstructed. My current setup is a video shotgun mic (Deity D3 Pro) mounted just above my monitors and pointed at my forehead. I still find I pick up a lot of room tone with it, even though I'm using a felt desk pad on the desk to cut down on those reflections. Currently I'm considering mounting sound panels to the wall behind my desk, but I can't really put anything in front of my screens. It may never be a perfect setup but I love the functionality of being able to join a call without having to spend 5 minutes beforehand plugging in equipment or putting on headphones and then making sure all my audio routing is correct on my computer.
If you haven't already, you might try angling your mic down a little towards your chest. I'm not sure how wide the pickup pattern is on that mic, but it seems that aiming high could contribute to the room tone issue. Aiming at your mouth *should* be better, and going just a little lower should pick up more of the chest resonance in your voice. The distance from the mic is also important.
Dude, lav with the sound panel set up, a world of difference. Actually, I think may be more useful than some boom mic's. Though boom is my first choice.
Honestly I kind of prefer the proximal reflections for the cardioid overhead. Gives it a 'natural' feel, but definitely treatment improves if you're going for broadcast/mixable level recording. I use the Voodoo VR2 and actually leverage the figure-8 for this reason, but I make sure the backside is angled up and above the plane of my monitors. I also used deskmats to help reduce my desk reflection while still keeping my desk usable (90% of my recording is done during/in conjunction with PC workload). Ends up with some reflection, but tuned enough to feel 'alive' in the sound production without being like I'm in a cathedral. Biggest thing I took away here is to absolutely never try using a lav mic at my desk. Yikes.
This was excellent! I could really hear a definite difference even with just the towel on the desk! The difference was really quite big to me, though I admit I'm using studio headphones. I'm sure on a phone or tablet speaker or even a pair of more "colourful" headphones it would be much less noticeable - but then if that's your target use case then, well... Anyways, the reflections were more pronounced on the condenser mics than the SM7B to my ears at least. I feel like the best takes were ones where you faced away, and I would definately do that for any more demanding audio work, such as recording a voiceover or even an audio book. On the other hand, as that's not always practical, the extra materials on the desk would be a good way to go. A possibility would be to add one of those back of the microphone screens, though I think it would still benefit from the towel or mat. An interesting further option would be one of those GIANT soft cloth mouse pads that are marketed towards gamers. Perhaps not quite as effectibe, but they might help a bit, too and be more practical than a towel.
For those asking if a felt covered desk or towels will make a difference: Yes they will, but they won't necessarily solve problems across the whole frequency spectrum. The best method to improve your overall recorded sound is treating your first reflection points with sound panels at least 4" deep. This includes the ceiling. If your desk is reflecting into the overhead mic, it's also reaching past that position and hitting the ceiling before reflecting into your mic again and either boosting or reducing frequencies.
The lav mic had a huge difference. The directional microphone had so little of a difference on my regular speakers, I would probably not even worry about it unless my recordings were based on sound quality. I'm sure I could hear it more if I used my better headphones, but for most applications viewers actually use these microphones for, their listeners likely wouldn't notice or care.
That was my impression as well. Something Bandrew didn't try here was placing the lav mic up by his collar instead of down on his chest at nearly desk level. I bet the downsides of collar vs. chest are less than the downsides of having it closer to the desk than mouth. I tried to reproduce Bandrew's results while substituting a headset mic in place of the lav, but there was minimal difference (much like the boomed SDC here) in facing the desk or away from the desk--presumably because the mic position was much closer to the mouth and therefore less susceptible to the interference. The point of this video was to illustrate the effect reflections can have, but it seems like an easy case to manage.
Yes. Most of what we do is to appease our own desire for good audio, or the 1% of people who will notice. For online content creation and voice calls, anything above a Samson Q2u or XM8500+UM2 is going to go unnoticed by the overwhelming majority of listeners. The impact of reflections from your desk and monitor is the same thing. It’s about trying to achieve the best audio we can for those who are kind enough to spend their time watching or listening to us, even if they don’t notice.
Yes. As you get the mic closer to your mouth the signal to background noise is improved. The issue with lav mics is that it’s omni, and picking up a lot of it’s sound from reflections because it’s not in front of your mouth (even if you have it at the collar). If you have a headset mic that’s going to be an even larger improvement because you can get the mic much closer to your mouth so you get direct sound as opposed to reflections.
The difference is so minimal that I wouldn't bother with any acoustic treatment unless you are having a specific problem. Most issues can be solved by using the right mic or positioning it properly.
Already see plenty writing they don't hear much difference. I hear huge difference... I think the cake is in the detail. If you sit in a completely silent environment with isolated equipment and just decent headphones it should be quite the difference. I am very surprised people are writing they don't hear the difference and I am by no means a sound snob. Obviously they're all going to be good and better than a lot of setups even without towels and foam, but it is for sure an improvement.
Add in a curved monitor like I use for karaoke and it makes sound reflection worse. I have a sE Reflex thing and even though people say they are worthless, I find it does help more than people think.
I livestream and I know that what I hear in my headphones are not what my audience hears. For this reason, I listen to mic comparisons on my laptop speakers; just like my audience. For me, your tests showed a difference; but the degree of difference depended on the mic. The biggest difference was with the lav mic and I would guess that was the lowest quality. The SDC mic showed some improvement, but not as much as the lav. The SM7B had the least improvement; (1) it is the best quality and (2) you are much closer to it when you speak. Overall, it was a really useful test and I really enjoyed the video. Thank you.
The SM7B really was hard to hear the differences. It combats it so well. The other mics, however, WOW, the difference, even the towel, just made. And I didn't expect to be able to hear a difference between the panels with the towel vs without. Crazy. Thanks for this.
Love your video and channel, Bandrew. I bought two thin cork panels from Ikea and put on the desk surface for a year. Not sure whether this works or not though, mentally eased.😅
I´m using for years really big mouse pads. They cover most of my desk (currently Corsair mousepad and AT875R mic). You can also grab yoga mats (they are cheaper lol) for the same purpose ... helps ALOT. Cheers and boop the snoot! 😅
I had already thought that the reflections from my desk and from my 2 monitors made my recording sound bad. But I also had thought that can't be and I must be mistaken. Your video has made me thinking: yeah, I am not insane :-). Thank you for your video. I will try a towel on the left monitor and I will try a carpet on the desk.
I use a dynamic mic ( rode procaster ) and then on the desk I have some carpet underlay with a full desk mat on top of that, it does make a difference that's why I did it.
When my wife does a voice over at the desk (with a rather loud laptop) I actually put a rolled towel next to the mouse and a folded towel over the keyboard and the front part of the desk. She only needs to use the mouse to control the video playback and audio recording. It makes quite a big difference.
My display Gigaplay AORUS FV43U had yet another effect: when too close too my 2i2 audio interface or a Tascam LM8-ST summing mixer, it caused a hum. Putting it to sleep stopped that hum 😒
The towel made the biggest difference with the lavalier, the least difference with the SM7B. I’ve had a towel on my desk for quite a while. I use Videomic GO II.
I find it a lil amusing that what you said about mic positioning was kinda wrong for supercardoid (because of the rear peak) but the SDC was still in the perfect spot for a suprcard XD
8:35 - I use a re20 on a boom arm and shock mount with my computer for meetings at work (because...I just like overkill). I always keep the butt of the microphone pointed right at my keyboard, which means the rear axis is in the center of my desk and monitor, basically. You might think, "doesn't that get in the way of using the keyboard?!" Oddly, no. There's more space than you'd think there and, provided you have the keyboard basically memorized, it doesn't slow down keyboard usage at all. So far it appears to work well :)
Difference with the lav was huge, but as you said, they are just really not suited for sitting at a desk & you sounded like you were talking to us from Nemo land either way. The huge ‘gaming mousepads’ or ‘deskpads’ are the way to go for your desk, cheap ones can be found & they reduce noise & vibration a lot. I don’t even use a mouse, but wouldn’t live without one. Monitors are an unavoidable problem, but mic orientation helps a lot there with condensers, as you mentioned. Dynamics are king for sitting/standing at a desk though & considering that having online meetings from your wardrobe/closet/under your bed is deemed socially unacceptable, it’s the safest bet 😊
I can't hear any difference at all from desk treatment on my usual speech-listening set-up (laptop speakers), only from turning away and mic changes. To me the SDC sounds best regardless, facing it away from the desk is a smart trick.
I even heard a difference on my cheapass phone earbuds lol - I'm glad I at least laid down a full desk mousepad. I still need to apply more audio foam around my setup but I think my voice comes across alright Kinda hard to tell without a professional ear but,,, ah well!! Thanks for the tests!!
Yes a small monitor can also reflect sound back. I’d suggest doing a quick test. Record with the setup as is, and then take down the monitor and record again to see how it sounds.
I've noticed this on my desk since I use a... metal thing to cover a drawer that's part of the desk. Putting my mic on an arm and not connected to the desk helped a lot. If it's a particularly sensitive recording, I turn away from the desk. This video actually validates my thoughts on my desk affecting sound and makes me feel less crazy.
Especially in lav mics, even without the headphones, I can actually hear the difference. It's as though the sound is bouncing off from the desk in lav. (Note: I'm deaf in one ear, and wore a hearing aid for the only hearing ear. So it helped me distinguish a bit the sound differences on surfaces.)
That would be interesting to explore for sure. I can't imagine the sound being great because it would be picking up your chin and not much else. But still would be fun to explore. Great recommendation.
@@Podcastage I think there might be more vocal sound under the chin than it might seem at first blush. And if you lose some of the room reverb, it might be more usable. Or not. That's why I was curious.
Now I don't feel so silly for having thrown a towel on the bookshelf that my KSM32 hovers over in the closet. Actually there's a washcloth draped on the Scarlett Solo, too. I read from the iPad behind the microphone, but that seems OK.
Are there sound absorption pads/mats for desks? I am curious if large mouse pads or maybe large static mat might make difference? PS someone should make hangable matts/pads for screens and PCs to help with this.
I have a XXXL mousepad that I normally use. I want to see what kind of impact it's actually having. I want one that's just a little bit thicker and more foamy to absorb sound even better.
I must be the odd person out. I am listening on my DT770 headphones and I really did not hear a significant difference. Perhaps I have an audio problem that prevents me from hearing well ?
Great video, Andrew, and badly needed. I’d like to offer a few hard learned lessons to complement yours. The computer display and hard desk are absolutely anathema if located in your speakers’ sound field. Also, never use a curved display in a music room. Since the speakers are set in stone, always arm-mount your display in a music mix room so you can find the inevitable problem locations. A vertical config is the worst. Try to tilt the display steeply with its lower edge as low and close as possible. Set the tilt so a first reflection has zero chance to reach your ears. This will not be simple. Somewhat ironically, the more crap sitting on your desk right in front of you, the better.
Once I recorded my singing outside in the field, there was no wind or any other noise so it went perfect. After that I can not stand any reverberation and resonance that every room crates. 😃
A curved monitor can make the hollow audio dramatically worse than a flat monitor. The curve acts like a parabolic reflector, focusing reflected audio just where you'd want to put a mic. Tough to overcome.
I put a giant 12ft square table cloth over my studio desk then put a 6ft square vinyl table protector on it, and then bought a 6ft x 3ft mouse pad, which was REALLY HARD TO FIND and SUPER EXPENSIVE, over that. Not the best sound dampening. But that's also why my monitor is a 32in 4k monitor about 2ft from the back of the mic, at a 1080 resolution and 200% scaling since I refuse to wear my glasses.
The principle demonstrated here is the human ear's sensitivity to 'first reflection.' Disregard first reflections at your own plurgle-lee. [I said "peril" but maybe you heard plurgle-lee.]
Yes, reflections from hard surfaces such as a desk, computer monitor will make it sound poor. I am in the process of isolating those things. My room is pretty dead, so I usually boom away from my desk and other reflective surfaces for now. Hoping you and Curtis Judd do another microphone comparison and thoughts, or other project together. I enjoy watching those too.
I removed the foam screen from my SM7B and cut a 3/8 inch piece of foam and inserted it into the foam screen and put it back on the mic. IMO, it add depth to the flat setting. It cost nothing and took a few minutes.
