I bought a #5 from you a couple of months back. You phoned me up and talked me into buying the #5 1/2 instead. You said that I wouldn't regret it. Well..... I'm pretty happy with the 5 1/2. But, I do have an issue. My shop is full of these curled up wood shavings. They're everywhere.
I watched all the videos on this channel several times. Inspired me to start woodworking with handtools. Saved money and ordered a no5 1/2 woodriver, a RC diamond stone and a shapton 16000 from Rob. It is a joy everyday to work with this tools. ( allso saved the plane box with Rob's autograph). Rob, you are a chest full of knoledge, may you live long so you can share this knoledge with us.
I started watching your channel 2 years ago, and got obsessed with hand planes. I end up buying all sizes of bench planes from No.3 to No.8 from Lie Nielson just to fill the plane tilted I build on my garage wall. That's a lot of money and I should probably have spent it somewhere else, but I don't regret it. It is an absolute joy to use high-quality hand tools. I found out that the ones I most frequently reach out to are No.5 and No.8.
Hi Rob, I have been a cabinet maker in the UK since 1977 when I first started my apprenticeship; so quite a few years. When I started I had a no 4 and a no 7 and both suited all the needs I had at the time; both Stanley's. Over the years I have collected lots of planes only from no 3 up to no 7, mainly as I see no need for a 1 or 2 and a 8. These tools have been a mixture of Record's and Stanley's, I must say I really have never had a problem with any of them as they have been easily fettled to work as I need them to. I totally agree with your comment regarding low angled jack's, I purchased one a few years ago to see what all the fuss was about; and found there was nothing extra I could do with it that I could not already do with my existing planes, also agree with what you say about those angles as you say very little difference. I guess there is good advertising regarding these as it seems most hobbyists always seem to think it's a go to plane. As my planes are of the type non Bedrock design if I need to alter the frog it takes a few seconds longer, however I rarely need to change as I find the most important thing is a razor sharp blade. In the UK we have a brand called Quangsheng which are Chinese made; but look identical to your Woodriver ones. I am not sure what these would offer to me over what my old Stanley's do, I can get thicker blades and cap irons which would involve getting a slightly larger yoke; but I really have never had a problem. The new Stanley's and Record's which you can buy now are probably the worst planes I have ever seen and I always advise new apprentice's to look on eBay for the old ones; which can be picked up for less money.I think the cost of the newer modern makers put off most, and most of these end up in the hands of older hobbyists rather than new young apprentices; certainly in the UK that is.
Good comment. Getting new modern blades in those planes will make a very significant upgrade, trust me. Hock makes replacement blades in the .115 thickness range design to still work with the yolk. IBC makes .145 thick that will work with the yolk because of their chip-breaker design. Quangsheng, is the authorized export outside of North America of WoodRiver
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I'm not sure you actually read the comment. He's saying he doesn't have a problem, yet you gave a solution to a problem he isn't having....
Beautifully explained Rob. I have every size of vintage Stanley and Record planes. All are tuned up after many hours. I love the results I get from them. I concur with what you said about the newer high end planes. They do indeed provide excellent results and much quicker. To the newbies out there: pop the bucks and get good stuff right out the shoot. It will save you money and lots of time in the end.
I’ll be honest I stared on a #4 from Lowe’s then upgraded to a #4 Stanley sweat heart. It took me longer to learn on those than it probably would have if I had started with a nice plane. But I feel like learning on poor tools teaches you so much more and makes you appreciate good tools so much more when you get them
Another great video-and one worth a re-watch. Due to 5-1/2 shortages, I took your advice of a 4-1/2 and a 6. You phoned me about my order and recommended the full squaring service on the 6 as it was to be my shooting board plan. I’m SO glad that you called and that I took your advice. Like another commenter, my shop is always full of shavings!
First year shop class all we had were #4s. It was impossible for a 13 year old to learn joint long boards with a smoothing plane. Second year we did everything with a #5. By the end of that year most of us could make acceptable edge joints of any length using that #5. 50 plus years later I own a lot of planes and enjoy them all, but still use an old Stanley #5 more than the others due to the muscle memory gained from mastering that plane when I was just 14. Thanks for the excellent video.
I have to admit that I like the low angle plane. I also use the 5 1/2, 5, and No. 6. I can't even say why, but sometimes I will swap out one for the other, and things simply go better. It might be mood, some sort of nearly indetectable muscle hitch, but they all work, and work well.
Excellent video on the hand plane! The way you explain and describe your choices and opinions are helpful and informative. Thanks for sharing this video. Take care.
Couldn't agree more. I followed the conventional wisdom, bought a $50 Stanley jack plane, tuned it to the best of my ability... and struggled. A lot. Much later, I borrowed a friend's Lie-Nielsen 5 1/2... and it blew me away. I had no idea what I had been missing. I have since bought one, and I absolutely love it. Ironically, now that I understand how a plane can and should behave, I have been able to successfully tune my old Stanleys to work quite nicely (but I don't use them. I should probably sell 'em.) Bite the bullet and plunk down the bucks for a Wood River, LN or Veritas as your first plane. It's a low risk investment, because if you decide that you don't want it, you should have no problem selling it at or near retail price. If $300-$400 is totally outside of your budget, consider the Stanley 62 low angle jack plane. It's admittedly not as slick as the aforementioned brands, but it's a hell of a good deal at $150.
Buying a LN or veritas plane because you can't get a cheapo modern plane to work is good. Those planes are trash and just won't work no matter what. Buying a premium plane because you can't get a vintage stanley to work is bad. It means there's something wrong that you don't understand and don't know how to fix yet. Working on the old stanley will teach you that skill and make you a better woodworker. If something goes wrong with the LN or veritas, you might not know how to fix it because you never had to learn how to diagnose those problems. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with buying a premium plane. Just that you shouldn't dismiss the value of buying a vintage plane and learning how to tune it.
I totally respect your opinion Rob. I started and timed my own “old” planes a while ago. I have eyeballed that 51/3 WR for some time however I have a serious bond with my old stuff. It just works and works very well.
I am also a convert to the Woodriver No. 5-1/2. I had an old Stanley No. 4 I inherited from my grandad, and couldn’t get it to do decent work. After watching Rob’s videos on plane selection, use, and sharpening during the Covid lockdowns,, I ordered 1) my 5-1/2 from Woodcraft and 2) Rob’s recommended hardening stones/system. (You need BOTH, don’t cheap out on either one or you’ll regret it!!!) I thought I knew how to plane before, but I was wrong. The quality and weight of the 5-1/2 made it possible for me to learn how to mill my lumber flat by hand, to mill it to length and dead square with a shooting board, and to smooth my wood without sandpaper. Better tools make your wood working so much easier and better! Many thanks for your planing videos including this one, Rob. You opened up the pleasure of hand tool woodworking to me and many others.
I have 2 No.4s that I managed to find/get off people who weren't using them and I've cleaned them up and tuned them to be pretty good, but they're still a PITA to get a cut started because of the short toe. So hoping to pick up my first new plane soon and have been debating this and coming to the same conclusions as Rob, good to have it confirmed, as most say 4 or 5 like he said. Thanks for a great video confirming my thoughts, can't wait till II can afford to order my new 5 1/2.
I have two no. 4s too, and a 5 1/2 woodriver I bought after watching too many of Robs videos! It’s a great system, I kept the two no. 4s very sharp as super-smoothers so I don’t need to sharpen them as often, the 5 1/2 as my general do everything plane, and a 7 I use for jointing and flattening my bench top. Can recommend the woodriver 5 1/2, great plane for a very decent price 👍
I began with a stanley no 5 and a big piece to my decision was price. I wasn't entirely certain I wanted to stick with hand tool woodworking so I wasn't willing to invest in the high end quality tools just yet. This also gave me a chance to learn how the plane itself works as I had to tune it. Like you said, as a newbie you don't know what you're doing. But the process of learning to tune it and seeing results improve taught me a great deal about hand planes and about sharpening..since I had to do it a few times to get it right... this could also discourage someone just getting in to it, it can be a source of frustration. So I think the biggest factors would be budget as #1 and then willingness to take your time in learning. If you want to just get up and go, buy a Wood River, every time.
My go to is a No.5 Bailey that I stumble upon set up and ready to work in an estate sale. I have No.5 No.4 (stanly handyman) and a block plane. 5 ans block are my go too for what I do picture frames cutting board ext. Thanks fpr your videos allways informative
Just purchased my first plane after much research, 5.5 WoodRiver Jack. It is very intimidating in the selection process. Hopefully the WoodRiver product performs as easily as you make it seem. Thanks.
All great points to purchase the newer planes. I got back into hand wood working this year and it does my heart good to be using my vintage 4 and 5 in a new century, still working perfectly.
I like the low angle jack plane and don't use any type of additional bevel. More often than not I grab it first. The adjustable throat is a great help. That plane has come through for me every time. A sticking door recently caused a problem and the end grain was tough until I angled the plane body to it at about 20 - 25 degrees. I have noticed that a sharp blade is paramount in every plane. Even the "wrong plane for the job" often works fine with a sharp blade. I never heard anyone say work piece X or Y would have turned out better if I had used a 5° secondary bevel, a 5° back bevel, or both. I don't disagree with anything in the video, I simply found that I like the low angle jack.
I take your point regarding modern vs. vintage. But for $300, one can go on eBay and get a 4-1/2, a 5-1/2, a 7, and an 8, spend 128 seconds getting all of them sharp and have a decent set of tools that can take you from rough sawn to finished piece. Or, for $300, you can get one Woodriver 5-1/2 and still have 15% of your planing needs not covered. I think for someone just getting into hand planes and willing to drop three c-notes, there's a strong argument for acquiring a set of planes even if they may require watching some Rob Cosman hand plane cleaning and tune-up videos before you start making curls. Admittedly, I'm biased because that's the route I went when I decided to move to hand planes and got sticker shock from the modern planes.
My issue with vintage is that they were never designed to perform the way that a modern Hand plane does. The machining tolerances were much lower, the blades are significantly thinner (more chatter, reduced quality of finished work) and it takes actual skills to refurbish them correctly. A modern plane comes ready to work out of the box, aside from routine sharpening. Vintage are really cool, but in my opinion don’t compare to modern machining.
Great info. Curious what your recommendation would be for my situation. Looking to add hand planning to reduce/eliminate sanding. All milling is done by machine. I was looking at a No. 4 to focus on the smoothing. As a smaller guy I think the 4 1/2 might be a bit more of a push as you said. But now contemplating whether the 5 is a better choice. Thoughts?
5 would be better, heavier plane moves through the wood better, think increased mass. Longer sole gives more stability, bigger footprint. A shooting board will eventually become an essential and a 4 is woefully inadequate on a shooting board.
Rob convinced me a couple years ago to make the Woodriver 5-1/2 my primary plane, and it has proven to be a good choice. I have a dozen old Stanleys, including three #5s and a #605 which is the bedrock style, but the Woodriver 5-1/2 is way better than those old planes even though they are in very good condition. If you're watching this and thinking about where to spend your money on your first plane, I say go with the Woodriver 5-1/2. If you have a #5 and are frustrated with it, get a Woodriver 5-1/2, you won't be sorry. But if the price is out of reach right now, a #6 or #606 would be a good choice and when you can get the 5-1/2.
Great video. I have a question. You don't ship to the U.S. so I went to Wood River. They have the 5-1/2 for $280 and the 6 for $220. I will only be using this for flattening. Would the 6 be good for this or a bit too much of a good thing?
I love the 5 1/2, which seems way more common in the UK. Sometimes I also use a no. 3 for smaller areas and a no. 7 for jointing. I never liked the 4 1/2. It always feels a bit ackward on smaller projects eventhough it does fit in my hand nicely.
Great tip again Professor Cos. I have my uncles go to plane, a 5 1/4. He had a special pocket in his vest to hold it. But man are the new ones so much better.
Before I even listen, I'm guessing a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2, but I'll listen, Rob Cosnan is simply the greatest! As a shop teacher, the latest block planes from (Wood River) Woodcraft are hard to beat for 7th and 8th grader very easy to use and push although not great for flattening!
I came here because someone on Reddit was complaining about this video and watched the whole thing. I do think it would have been worth mentioning your affiliation with woodcraft (as you do on many other videos so I presume it was just an oversight here) and overall found this to be a great video, well presented as always. Thank you for your wonderful ongoing videos.
I always mention that as a disclaimer however I dont do the editing nor do I see the video before they post. I trust the guys that do that and if they are having to cut for whatever reason, they do.
A small but necessary awareness to the adjustment in closing the mouth on a Bedrock style plane is that the projection of the iron increases, which means a heavier cut, without backing it off. If somebody is planing apiece of wood and starts to cut, it will be a deeper slice, and could damage the wood.
The Veritas Low Angle Jack has a better design than the Woodriver, here are the numbers for comparison: Veritas LAJ Vs Woodriver LAJ Length: 15" vs 14" Width: 2,8" vs 2,4" Blade: 2,3" vs 2,0" Weight: 6 vs 4,6 pounds The side faces are also bigger on the veritas, but couldn't find a number for them. The 5 1/2" is not that much bigger than the veritas LAJ, here is the comparison: Veritas LAJ Vs Woodriver 5 1/2" Length: 15" vs 14,9" Width: 2,8" vs 2,9" Blade: 2,3" vs 2,4" Weight: 6 vs 7 pounds So the 5 1/2" is just a 1/8" wider (body and blade) and 1 pound heavier than the Veritas LAJ. The 5 1/2" would be better than any 62 LAJ by all the points made in the video, but against the Veritas LAJ those advantages are almost negligible.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking We're basically talking about a difference of 45° and 12+25+1 or 38° for the low angle. A difference of 7°. Then, moisture content, species of wood, skewed vs. straight cut...on and on. I'm saying the issue is not that straight forward as a yes or no on the low angle. Some folks swear by it and others don't. AND that's fine, the reason they make so many makes of cars, we all have our preferences. We'll leave Lee Valley out of this😏 Cheers,
Rob, I’d appreciate your comments / advice regarding a Stanley #5 Jack Plane which I’ve inherited recently. The plane has been kept in storage for quite a few years but is in extremely good condition except for the fact that the sole of the plane is slightly out of true. I’ve seen many YT videos which demonstrate how to flatten the sole using sandpaper stuck to a flat surface . I have a James Barry 300 grit Diamond Stone plus two Shapton glass stones, a 1000 and a 3000 grit. As a ’noobie’ I was wondering if using these stones to lap the sole is a viable alternative to using the sandpaper method? MVH.
Rob I am one of those who will disagree with you on going straight in at a 5½. When starting and working with softwoods I think a number 62 is a better plane for a beginner. This is because the investment is less as there are decent mid range no.62 s on the market such as the modern Stanley Sweathart. Also in the case of the Stanley it comes with a hollow ground primary which acts as a reverence for the final sharpening so maintaining that 25deg and resultant 37deg efective cutting angle. The drawback on low angle planes is that a grinding wheel is prety much a must have for restablishing the primary after multiple secondary sharpening's. For a second plane a no. 5½ is the way to go. At this point enough experience should have been built that what a well tuned plane feels like has been achieved. This opens up the vintage market if the budget does not extend to a premium tool. Now again I am going to disagree with you a Bedrock style is only a nice to have. Adjusting a baily style mouth only needs the chipbreaker iron pair to be removed twice. Once to slacken the from locking screws them place the iron back in the plane and then use the justment screw exactely like you would on a bedrock. This removes the gueswork. Then romve the iron so that the frog locking screw can be tightened. I will admit that I did end up bying a new iron and chipbreaker for my vintage 5½ (which I restored myself) however I did this because one side of the iron was so far of flat that properly platerning the origional Stanley iron would have left it wafer thin. Now personaly for a smoother I think that a No.4 is better than No.4½ and is comforable to use in a two fingered grip rather than the cramped three finger grip. It is a smother so you realy want to follow the hils and valleys that are still in the work and a narrower plane is better at this. I will say that I tend to leave my no. 5½ set in a smoothing configuration and rely on good saw technique for the initial surfaces. It is very rearly that I have to set for heavy stock removal. For that I would use the 5½ to idendify the high points (ie use it as a fore plane) then come in with my crapy modern no.4 in a scrub setting to do the bluck removal.
@RobCosmanWoodworking I've heard you mention the bit about 4's and 5's being built for adolescents in school woodshop class before. Do you have any sources? I'm not arguing, but rather curious as by the time I was in school shop class was basically gone. So, I've never had any exposure to planes before getting started a couple years ago. BTW, I've been using a 4 and a 5 for most of my planing for about 2 years and agree that a 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 would likely feel better. I like my no. 6 for that reason.
No sources, but if there were the No. 4 would no longer be the most popular plane. Unfortunately we’re so far removed from when there was a professional market that that common knowledge has been lost. Go back 100 or so years and think about how many professional woodworkers there would’ve been using a 4-1/2, 5-1/2 or 6, compared to how many school shop classes with 4s and 5s. Hence why the market is so flooded with them.
If I may ask. Is there such a thing as too big to be used? I often have to make solid wood countertops. Larger than fits in our power thickness planer 15 inch grizzly. Can a large jointer hand plane also smooth? Aside from weight ( not an issue for me ) and space... Is there any reason not to go with a number 8? Can it be made to smooth too?
I knew it was the 5 1/2.. I took the Training the hand workshop in August 2021. There is So much more he teaches you in class about sharpening and technique that I was amazed.. If you want to learn more and perfect your skills sign up.. and the bonus is you do it with veterans who give us these opportunities..
Hi, Rob, I started with a vintage Stanley number 4 that I tuned up myself. As you said, it was a learning process and took some time for me to get right. It is a lovely plane now, especially after the addition of a Hock blade and cjip breaker. Then a friend gave me a Keen Kutter 5 1/2. Tuning it was not as much of a chore having been through it once. I added a Hock blade and chip breaker, and my eyes were opened.. i have three blades now, a heavily cambered one that I use for heavy stock removal, a less heavily cambered one, and a straight blade with eased corners for smoothing. This is my go-to plane for almost everything.. I love the weight and the width. My number 4 is permanently set as an ultra-smoother. I have a number 7 that I use for jointing and flattening large stock. But it is the 5 1/2 that I find in my hand 95% of the time. Stu (PS: all of my planes have your AdjustStars - the best bang for the buck addition you can make to a working plane)
Yet to see Rob demonstrate the proper use of the cap iron i.e honed to at least 50 deg, set no greater than under 1/32" from edge, and an OPEN mouth, and maybe a smoother with everything the same bar cap iron closer, like 1/64" or thereabouts to demonstrate and give an honest comparison between premium planes and the older Bailey's. Just saying, as many here, have progressed watching Rob's videos, have a bench and designated space for their planes by now, so might want to try out some of the vintage flavour which doesn't need to have square sides and indestructible qualities. As yet to hear Rob say "this plane will tackle ANYTHING", which suggests the planing videos isn't upto speed with the rest of the work Rob produces and theres a lot of content yet to be published from our favourate Canook. I suspect this is an older publication, as there seems to be a few videos made recently which has certainly stepped things up a notch. All the best Tom
Tom…we shot this video a week ago….its not “an older video”. When you say cap iron you are referring to the chip breaker….correct? I don’t buy that moving the chip-breaker closer to the edge of the blade helps reduce tear out. The physic’s do not make sense to me and in practice it doesn’t work for me. I have seen the Japanese professors video, but I am not convinced. I know lots of folks think differently and thats Ok
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Hello Rob, I guess you've tried this with a tight mouth, which some claim to work, I don't buy that, as I struggled doing so for a long time before realising the tight mouth was stopping the cap iron (chipbreaker) from getting close enough, as it was honed at at least 50 degrees. It's very apparent with a steeper cap, and basically gives one no choice but to open the mouth, unless one takes only the thinnest of shavings, which would work regardless, only with far more effort. Best thing I ever learned once I got the basics down from yourself and Mr Charlesworth's publicaions, The top two fellas for learning honest planing techniques IMO, and everybody else having bad habits. Basically saying someone with your planing methodoligy i.e precision tolerance honesty and all the rest has no excuse for not uilizing the cap iron/chipbreaker to its full potiental As some might never learn this with less than ideal planing technique/methodoligy as they scoff at the thought of having a flat bench. I forgot to mention another thing which likely fits into a water shaprening routine, be it shaptons or diamonds... is that "perfect camber," which became much easier for me to achieve after a suggestion of putting fingers exactly on the spots which are needing work, and not leaning/tipping with such a minute camber with fingers just very close, as I was getting inconsistancies doing this. Using water was half the answer to this, as I could allow my fingers to get closer to the hone and not have filthy hands afterwards. Not that makes much difference to your sharpening technique as that is evidently always spot on, but for others having bother. Cheers Tom
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I am very sorry for your loss but I trust that you will continue to champion his ideas and expand on them in your own way. 32 seconds to sharp, for example.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Rob, please don't insult us with that. You don't have a legal 'team'...furthermore you mention every other brands out there, EXCEPT Lee Valley Love your videos with much respect, don't spoil that. Cheers, N
@@nspctor7729 - Rob (or woodcraft/wood river) may have some kind of non-disclosure agreement from a lawsuit years ago. I doubt such an NDA would say "you can't talk about them at all," but it might be vague enough that it's easier to just avoid commenting on them at all. Some NDAs prevent you from even acknowledging the existence of the NDA. There was a lawsuit back in 2010-2013 between Lee Valley (Veritas) and IBC. Rob was named in the lawsuit in some capacity, but it looks like he was later removed from the case. You can google the details about it.
@@UserNameAnonymous Thanks for the info. Google wasn't much help, It would seem the Lee Valley Tools v. Woodcraft lawsuit is somewhat buried elsewhere or unavailable to the public.
@N Spctor mentioning every other brand has nothing to do with a specific brand. My legal advisers (is that a better term for you?) have counselled me not to mention that brand.
Rob, in your comparison of the low angle jack to the 5 1/2, I was surprised you did not mention the biggest annoyance of the LA jack…that being how difficult it is to adjust the blade with the tiny and awkwardly placed knob on the LA. I have a Lie Nielsen LA jack that I bought in the 90s. Yes, I use it because it’s a beautiful plane however, even without your AdjuSTAR, the ease of adjusting a standard bench plane blade in and out is tenfold easier than on the LA jack.
One thing to be aware of these youtubers have electric thickness planers and jointers. So if you try to flatten a rough boards you will need a fore plane with a curved blade. Otherwise it will take you a week to flatten just one board. Look up scrub planing its a must especially with a fore plane.
Live your channel. Just wanted to mention that the last few months, the volume of the audio in the main part of the videos is much lower than the plugs for the channel.
If you are new to woodworking I think it’s better to buy a new plane ., just because of the total lack of experience. Later on that’s really individual
I have a "Made In England" Stanley 12-205. It sat in a tool drawer for many years unused until I was helping a neighbor with a woodworking project and he was attempting to use a hand plane to shave down a piece of wood. I decided to break it out and have been devouring all of the plane sharpening and set up videos. My question is, "What size category does this 12-205 fall into?"
If a back bevel pushes the chip breaker further back from the cutting edge and a finely tuned one assists with planing difficult grain then is there a downside to a employing a back bevel?
No. The back bevel is tiny..1/16 of an inch. This does not have any negative effect on the blade action….trust me, lots of experience using back bevels
@@andycarson3341 I'm looking forward to hearing Rob's review on these blades also. I ordered a few from Nick at Lake Erie, but still need to try them out.
Rob, Another great video. Have you done a video on your tips and tricks for fighting off corrosion on your tools? I could use some help in that department and I’m guessing there are plenty of other ‘garage and basement’ woodworkers with the same struggle!
Love all the information you've been putting out for us all these years Rob but these things are made in China and India no thank you American made are more expensive but I'd rather buy American made any day of the week
Yes they are manufactured in China. Not India. Made to U.S. standards. I understand your sentiments and we always say Lie Nelson which manufactures in Main, but has lots of Chinese made machines in their factory. We are trying to make a plane in North America and we cannot find any manufactures who do casting in small batches that are even semi- quality. 90% of all those have closed we have been told mostly due to environmental regulations. The issue is that manufacturing skill has all but disappeared from north america
great video again, thank you.... also for this video. sadly the 5-1/2 is hard to get in eu and the shortage in handplanes in general worsens it. guess i have to choose between #5 and #6. i remind, you started with a #6 or a #7, right? could you recommend one besides a #5-1/2? i already have a blockplane and a wooden (german) bench plane similar to #4
I think I've five or six #4 planes, both Record & Stanley, spanning nigh on a century of their production. Then on top of that, I've #2, #3(2) #4½, #5½(2) & #7. Can't afford new stuff, so they all came off Ebay or elsewhere for not very much. Perhaps I should sell off the smaller ones, as they're all well fettled & buy one decent plane.
Very surprised to hear you dissuade beginners from vintage tools which they can buy for a fraction of the price of a brand new WoodRiver. If the blade is the problem, they can use a Hock blade, which again, is a fraction of the price of a new one. I am glad I used Paul Sellers as my virtual mentor rather than you, he showed beginners like myself you don't need to make a massive upfront investment to get started and it CAN be done with older tools. I certainly would not pay £££ for brand new plane without testing the waters first. My only planes so far are vintage Stanley no 5, 4, wooden jointer (again, fraction of the price of anything brand new) and recently another 4 which I converted to a scrub plane after repairing the tote by gluing it back together. All of this cost me peanuts compared to the plane you're pushing. Wood hasn't changed much over the centuries, oak is still the same oak as before as are others, so not sure why in 2022 the older blades are such a problem when craftsmen have pushed out and are still pushing out amazing items using the same.
You do whatever you want. If you want to struggle with vintage planes, go right ahead. To me, the extra expense to get modern machining and blade technology is worth it for a beginner. Less struggle with the tool means more joy with the wood.
What a bizarre thing to say, why do you assume I struggled? I'd understand if you said it's quicker to get started with a new plane but to claim the old ones are inferior for their intended purpose is not true. If you're on a budget to get started, they will do perfectly fine
The few times that I dont agree with the assessment that BR are better than Bailey Designs. The issue is that there really isn't anything wrong with the Bailey design. You are better off controlling tareouts with cap-iron settings and having a sharp blade. Having a very closed mouth is also hard on the edge right before the blade. It IS a lot of work to get a plane working correctly, but it's part of the hobby. BR imposes a weight penalty with no realistic benefits AS LONG AS the Bailey is well tuned. In fact, early bedrocks are also based on just a simple two bolt on a slot adjustment system.
Great content I'm a 51/2 convert. The grey iron is a bit of a misnomer though there's a vast difference in purity and casting and heat-treating against the old Stanley's. There is a video of an old Clifton dropped from stepladders on to concrete with no damage, few pros for grey is thermal stability much better less likely to deform as it's not a malleable steel like ductile, and more liquid in casting for thin parts. I can attest to some of this I have a Veritas I dropped and it lumped up next to the mouth like a puddle ripple almost. Impressive it didn't crack but equally screwed. This also isn't info I searched for on wiki. I contacted Cliftons foundry and the grey iron is worlds apart. I think there's some good marketing out there and some miss information from companies. I don't think there's anything in it with modern quality planes I think it's availability of steel and setup. Also the numbers in tensile strength their talking holding bridges up not pushing a plane at that point anyway the steels moving all over. Sorry haha thought I'd share some of my research, I won't be dropping my beautiful Clifton either to check haa
Recently purchased some new chisels, and only have your 300/1000 and 16000 ceramic. Was wondering if I could use 3000 and 8000 whetstones in between the two instead of having to purchase 4000 ceramic?
Thanks, but if a #4 is Paul Sellers default I’ll take that. If you get chatter sharpen your damn blade, thicker blade is a crutch… enjoyable commercial. If you can’t fettle a plane, don’t blame the tool. Pax.
Pretty obvious that old #5 doesn't get a lot of use! And personally not a very big guy, other than weight I am the same size I was in Junior High. It's not that I don't agree with the premise, I am just the exception that proves the rule.
great video Rob, i see and you're 5 1/2 you have a erik florip toolworks blade it is a good blade like you're IBC ? i buy a woodriver 6 and he's my go to plane for the same reason.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Hey Rob, thank you for another excellent video! How do you like the Lake Erie blades so far? I ordered a few from Nick, but haven't had a chance to try them out yet. 🙂
Why are you blocking people who are mentioning that it is a bit disingenous to push Woodriver while not making it explicitly clear that you are being paid for it?
This is Rob speaking, I dont get paid for anything from Woodcraft (woodriver). I was hired back in 2008 to help them develop the planes. I now sell the woodriver line outside of the US. I always disclose that.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I think Rob should be embarrassed by this video. Blatant sales pitch with opinions way outside of what most experienced people say, and said with the conviction most commonly found in politicians and salesmen. Go find well-regarded experts who are NOT selling things, and you'll find cohesiveness on the other side of the argument. I was sad to watch this display.
David, you’re free to watch other channels. We’re not even allowed to sell these to 75% of our customer base, so why would we make a commercial out of it? Quit being a negative Nancy and do what you will with my opinion based on 40+ years of professional experience. Don’t want a 5-1/2? Fine, go spend your money on a No. 4 like most others would recommend.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I doubt he is alone, many people just done want to bust peoples bubbles by disagreeing. I use vintage tools and really have no problem, with chatter, trouble sharpening and blade flex, parts not fitting due to bad machining, chip breaker, adjusting frog or fitting my hand fit (tractor mechanics hands). Did I have to learn to clean and tune my old planes, yes, was it a problem no. Actually the 5 1/4 was primary made for adolescent hands and used in schools. The 5 is most common because it is a jack plane and does what title says. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you have yours and others have theirs. Last but least many of these videos do have a commercial aspect, and you admit that, so kudos to you for that.
So...avoid a honing guide and hand tool sharpen so you build a skill, but buy my new plane so you don't have to learn how a plane works? $280 for a new 5 1/2 vs $80 for a 100 year old type 11 that took 3 hours of actual work and may 4 hours of research to understand what I needed to to it to not only make it match any new plane, but left me with an experience and the knowledge to push further. I bought a #4 wood river and a #4 type 11. The wood river is currently for sale, but that's just me. Love the techniques though.
Learning to freehand sharpen is VERY easy. Learning how to plane by first learning how to refurbish an antique plane with a poor blade (as compared to modern bladed) is not an easy path for most beginners. Just look at all the comments of filks who share their story. But if you want to spend the time and effort to learn restoring go for it. I certainly have spent a ton of time restoring antique planes
IMHO the construction of Stanley planes is outdated. Veritas Custom series is waaay better. As for the first and only plane, I would start with №62 aka low angle jack.
