Your speakers are wrong 

Here in Australia we mount all our speakers upside down, so that the sound comes out with the correct phase in the UK. :P

3:17 Reminds me of the famous Quincy Jones anecdote: in the 'Thriller' sessions, he always brought a nasty, cheap mono transistor radio-type speaker into the studio for playback. "It's got to sound good on that- that's how the majority of people will be listening to this".

I love the way the Master splits the hairs. Cocking his head to one side to discern the difference in the frequencies. And he has this amazing assistant, who is always there to fill in the gaps! I wish I could afford an assistant like that...

You are totally right regarding vertical or horizontal orientation. Simple as that. Period.

Cheers for this from a retired mastering engineer! I had my NS10M's in this orientation on my personal desktop for years, and got nothing but grief from my contemporaries. About a year ago, I relocated my home studio to a larger room, and relegated my Yamahas to monitors stands off the desktop and in the customary horizontal position. Having them further apart has improved imaging, but this has to do with the fact they are slightly farther apart, not the orientation. Yamaha is correct. It does not matter a whit or a tiddle if they are vertical or horizontal. Just keep them off of a flat surface in either case. I also added a 1 octave step graphic EQ that allowed me to give them a nice 'HiFi' or loudness curve. In close proximity as designed, with this addition, reveals the little units are capable of surprising bass response, and there is no need to cover the tweeters in toilet paper. 😁 A simple flip of the switch allows me to go from flat to sweet. This has also pretty much eliminated the need for multiple monitor pairs. My primary use for these speakers in my personal studio is for archiving my analog library and restoring or remastering much of the same for 96 khz 24 bit wave. And the occasional multitracking for myself of 'backing tracks', something I have done since the 80's in order to perform 'live' without a band. I retired in 2018 after my company closed it's media division as far as in-house production and mastering after 22 years with them. All's well as ends better, as I am having far more fun being retired and working on my own projects! Cheers again!

I still use my father's KEF Cantors from 1975. He used them high up horizontally, I use them in a small room now vertically. The KEF logo on the front rotates to match the orientation 😊

I love how people think your system should sound and be set up, not!!! The only person my system needs to make happy is me.

I honestly enjoy watching your videos and listening to your take.

I’ve recently come across your videos (and subscribed!), and I am heartened by your willingness and ability to examine the fine details of sound reproduction while still reminding us that all of this-ALL of this-is subjective. If I mount my studio monitors in the attic pointing down through air vents into my studio because I like the way it sounds, that is good enough. If I like the way it sounds, it’s good. If I don’t, it’s bad. Far too many people throw around the word “objectively” in these discussions. You don’t, and I love that.

I always mount NS-10s the way they are mounted in this video. The bass response should be slightly better when mounted vertically as well as the phase coherence between the woofer and tweeter, as already stated. Combine all that with keeping the tweeters on the outside and the sound will image better across the stereo spectrum. Now, all of this is probably more or less subtle, but I personally like to have things set up as correct as possible.

LOL Paul McCartney, how lucky to have your audience think of Paul when you talk and what a wonderful job of recording the Beatles did for the music industry. keep up the good work!

As always, thank you for the free information!

Good for you! 😊 You are completely right. It's all very personal.

I have one horizontally and one vertically. Sounds good.

Ideally, the tweeters should be at ear level for your listening position. Pick the most suitable mount orientation and angle using isolation to create triangle between ears and tweeters. That should get you close to the studio's listening position ie the track will sound closest to how it was intended.

Good for you ,it is amazing how all these people are experts and don't have their own speaker companies.

Nothing better than listening to a true subject matter expert debunking folklore from the unwashed masses. Please keep it up. The truth needs to see the light of day. Cheers

You are just... awesome. Enjoy your content for it's analytical side, humor, and education points. Your video where you show the DAW noise floor doesn't exist was excellent as well.

I have it placed the same as you did - since 15 years - never got a problem :)

Great video. About monitors that have waveguides for the tweeters, many companies design their monitors to turn the tweeter 90 degrees so you can use them horizontally instead of vertically (ADAM Audio for example, not all models!!) without compromising the sound dispersion. About near field monitors in general, they are for monitoring at close proximity (1 meter or less). A small benefit of this concept is that the room acoustics are less noticeable because the sound only has to travel a distance of 1 meter at maximum to reach your ears. I don’t say that room isolation and treatment is unnecessary, it will benefit the sound for the better. It’s a sort of hack for people that don’t have a proper treated studio environment/room.

My speakers are also installed horizontally. And I also used a pink noise to adjust my system using a Real time analyzer and a graphic equalizer to correct the deficiencies in my system as well as the acoustics of my room. It makes a big difference. My amplifier is an Electrocompaniet from the 80s.

I loved listening to my mom's albums in the '70s and she had a wide ranging taste in music. She had Led Zepplin next to Arlow Guthrie... Nate King Cole... Johnny Cash... Fifth Dimension... Donavan, etc. She had an all in one consul (speakers, turn table, 8-track, radio).

Time alignment (tweeters & woofers to your ears) is a HUGE factor to hearing detail objectively, as you alluded to towards the end. And the more drivers in a speaker cabinet, the more difficult that can be. We're subconsciously actually more sensitive to phase response than to pitch.

I have an old pair of AR18's that are really useful for checking - kind of the precursor to NS10s as portable Hifi for mixing. I mostly work on my Genelec 1030a but they are a little 'veiled' in the upper mid at the crossover point even though excellent for me everywhere else. The AR show me that area perfectly - not to mention have a tight bass. Thanks for re-emphasising the phase aspect - I find speakers on their side super wide and weird, but thats me.

"Always look on the bright side of yesterday"

NS10's are the most critical speakers in my experience and was pleasantly surprised to hear him say what I learned 20+ years ago: If you can make your mix sound good on NS10's, then your mix will sound good on anything. This is why you'll notice most major recording studios had a pair of NS10's in them...

In addition to the "mids microscope" aspect of NS10s, I always understood the the main reason for having them is that virtually every pro studio on earth has them, and they thus serve as a reliable reference point for engineers who know them well. Great for mixing vocals. I wouldn't use them exclusively (I also have Genelecs), but mine have magic dust on them...I got them from the Townhouse studios (via funky junk) with a Quad 520f. Be Well.

For many years I used a pair of Canton Quinto510 Loudspeakers....and they did the job very well. Combined with my AKG K240 Studio headphones I think I was pretty good prepared to mix and record audio. I used my monitors so long and so intensive that I imediately identified any mistake in mix or recording. I knew exactly what I should be hearing. Since 3 years I changed to a pair of Yamaha HS 7 studio monitors and still I don't feel as secure and confident as I did on my (very old) Cantons. I guess it has to be some more years of matching my ears to the new monitors..... To conclude: I think you just need to KNOW WHAT YOU HEAR. And be able to make the right decisions from that knowledge. Great video, as always! Thank you very much!

Had my Tannoy 605 Mk 1s for nealry 30 years and they still sound great.

I like turning my bookshelf upside down... I love the look.

I agree with all the points you made, which matches my own experience. Like you I like mine stiff and errect....the monitors that is. If anyone wishes to get horizontal that is their private business!

👌👌 As it is, if you listen to the final mix well on an NS10, it will turn out well everywhere, especially if the product is for radio or television stations. Years ago, almost all the studios where I have recorded had these speakers and they were placed both horizontally and vertically. Many studios had another couple of boxes to listen to after the product was finished. Greetings.

Having worked myself with a couple of NS10, I wouldn´t overlook the problem with frequency response as if it was a minor issue. Those dips and bumps in the highs may become a challenge when looking for a tonal balance. It´s not only a question of having the mix sounding "good" in the yamahas, it´s also about mixin while you are aware of which frequencies are boosted by this response, and which are atennuated. A complete mess of perception, in my opinion. I never got to feel comfortable with these. I have enjoyed some of the latest Genelec models, and my final choice for mixing has been Neumann KH120 + Kh750dsp- Measuring my mixing room and getting an "almost flat" response, at least in terms of tonal balance perception, adding an extended bass response down to 16Hz, finally got me having my mixes translate in many other places with much less struggle. The Neumanns offer a rather boring sound when you use them simply for listening to other music, but are surprisingly revealing in showing hidden details in records I had listened to a thousand times. The kind of tool that helps you to take decisions and achieve your goal sooner, and more confident.

Dude... ;) my ATC are GOLDEN!

I agree fully! The room dictates everything! Cheers

Also vertical orientation helps keeping the tweeter more or less at the same height as your ear, which is important for high frequencies (which are directional). So it would help with clarity and stereo imaging. And nice speakers BTW :D

My NS-10s have the labeling rightways up when they're vertical, but I use them horizontally. No worries.

I remember when the NS10M first appeared mid 1980s, as I recall their biggest selling point was that an NS10 sounded like an NS10 in almost every studio they were used in. This was the era of the freelance sound/mix engineer, who could be working in almost any studio from day to day. Other popular near field speakers seemed to interact with the room more thus sounded subtly different in different studios. The NS10 did not sound as accurate as other speakers but the sound was consistent so he/she had a known reference. The original NS10M had an acoustic material speaker ‘grill’, but engineers always took it off. The result was the speaker was very slightly bright, which lead to people putting a sheet of tissue paper over the tweeter. This lead to a discussions of how many sheets, what brand etc. It sounds mad but it happened! I remember one of the Lord-Alge brothers (sorry can’t remember which one) who said the NS10 only “sounded right” when it was so loud it was “farting” ie the bass driver hitting the end stop. Needless to say the bass drivers needed replacing very often when he was mixing. But his mixes sounded great so who am I to judge.

I've ben using my original 1978 Yamaha NS10s as main monitor for maybe 10 years now. I used them on 4 or 5 places since I bought them, and half of the time I've used them vertical, as they're supposed to be. The other half of the time(and right now) I'm using them horizontally. Never been able to hear a difference in response or performance. In other monitors I had with horns, the difference was obvious instantly when you flip them. People saying that the orientation is wrong, clearly doesn't know what they're talking about, and of course never used their ears(or had a pair of NS10s hahaha)

Very well explained article. I'm still using 30 year old tannoy 609 mk2s , dial concentric speakers and I dont think that it would make any difference to the sound whichever way they were orientated as long ss the center of the driver Is about head height. Lots of studios used tannoys for this reason. Easy to set up and consistent in quality.

Before I lost my hearing upper register the monitor's tweeters always had to be square-on perpendicular & equidistant. Vertical has advantage I find better viewing through controlroom window

Never noticed the resemblance to Paul until you mentioned it, but damn, don't know how I didn't observe it. BTW, I employ the 1st iteration of B&G's dipole, push-pull, planar magnetic, RD-57 built by Dave Graebener at Speakerlab, before B&G Corp was formed. It features a 54 inch long by 2 inch wide, diaphragm, 4 turn voice coil for Frequencies above 200Hz. Could never imagine them not vertical.

I am glad you got the path changes right. Since there are 2 drivers not one, your movement will change the length of the sound has to travel, and since you rarely move up and down but a lot side to side, a vertical orientation is better (as with 99% of speakers) Though your best bet is to place the speakers fruther away, if you can, and such problems get a lot less prominent.

We used to tape some tissue paper over the tweeters , they are very bright and fatiguing sounding speakers and are supposed to represent the average hifi speaker on the home . That was back in the late 80s early nineties. Horrid speakers , pretty much every studio had them . Thnx Eric McCartney 🙏🏼⭐️🥁

I use my (upright) NS10s (hooked up to an old Alesis amp) for two reasons: in mono for balancing (theyre ruthless when balance is wrong or when wide sounds are not in phase), and to check if my bass is still there on smaller speakers (if not, I usually add a bit of distortion to bass in parallel to bring it up on smaller speakersets). Double checking on NS10's has saved me numerous times

My ns10’s are early versions and have the writing the other way, so when they are upright the writing is the correct way up.

If it sounds good on the Yamaha, music will sound good on any speaker because the Yamaha NS 10’s have a reverse fletcher munson curve. Not my idea, Eric Alexander from Tekton speakers said that. And that makes sense.

That has always been said of NS 10s. The speaker so lackluster that if it sounds good on them it'll sound better on anything else. I don't think they were even Studio Monitors originally. It's just that so many engineers and producers were using them as near fields that Yamaha jumped on the Band Wagon and started putting that on the front. The HS series are flatter, though not much better. But eventually White Coned Yamahas were ubiquitous in studios. So much so, that if they weren't in your studio, people questioned whether it was Pro, so of course I have them. And they look so cool. But, of course, I have to hear my mixes on a Jambox and in the car, headphones, etc... to really know what's going on. It was ever thus. Cassettes for the ride home.

I stick with my monitors because I have used them for years and know them through and through!

Paul M and Eric Idle……didn’t notice until you said it now I can’t get that image out of my head…..very funny!

It might be strange but I got some Monsoon metal highs, pretty good mids and the subwoofer is even pretty good too! I got this for $4.99 at a garage sale! One of the channels connections was hosed but it only took about 2 mins to get the pins straight and I plugged it in! I thought I must be nuts but it sounds good! LOL I've got some good monitors and headphones but I still use these Monsson's for anything media on my PC!

I've turned speakers backwards! In the musical instrument business, you're producing, not reproducing. My instruments were organs and carillons. Both sounds have a large indirect component. "Speakers forward" often gave too much direct sound. It certainly puzzled a lot of customers, but they couldn't argue with the sound.

I used to work at a local radio station. For that I once had a workshop making jingles at the NOB. working in the studios of the public broadcaster. Equipment that makes you salivate as a local radio station technician. Made super cool jingles, you know how those things sound. But the tip of the NOB technician was that you can make a very nice final mix on this equipment. But if you can't follow it on a transistor radio, it makes no sense. So a speaker from an old cheap radio was literally connected to the mono bus. "If it sounds good on that, and can be followed, it's good"

I think it was none other than Bob Clearmountain who started using the NS-10s (and porting them around with him).

I like the way you communicate sir.

Haha…don’t forget baffle reflection for the tweeter.😊

absolutely love ns10s, with a good amp like a bryston they sound much better than people say. I have actually not heard a speaker that I like the transient response as much as these, ns10s feel fast and tight and i really like the papery sound. I feel the papery sound is so much more natural than for example dynaudios or Atc with different material for the cone. I also much prefer the sound of a closed enclosure to ported speakers. Also the lack of sub helps me focus on the midrange in the mix. Ns10s just work for me, but may not work for other people tough, there is definitely a learning curve also. There is also something with 2-way speakers that i find sound less plastic/phasy than 3-way speakers. They may not sound flattering to clients, but they help me make much better mixes than I did with other speakers. The only thing that matters in the end is how the mix sounds outside the studio ofc.

I have the same speakers as you and I love them.

I have a unique situation where my speakers are sitting directly on a tile floor upside down with the super tweeters and tweeters in my 4-way Sansui speakers are only inches from the floor. I had to do this because I have a 150" pulldown theater screen and it blocks the speakers except for the bottom 8" which is unobstructed. So they still sound good during movies as the fronts, I have compensated for the strange layout with my 30 band EQ's so I get great sound even with screen down.

I invented my own speakers. I placed a JPW monitor on top of a Kef Coda. Individually they are different but lacking, together they are pretty decent.

My trusty Lintons do a mighty fine job - pushed by the Leak Stereo 130.. and its my personal taste .. greetings from Ireland

Nice looking speakers. I don’t give a bollox about optimal sound, if they look pretty and the sound is good. Good enough.

NS10 in whatever flavour with or without the tweeter covered with tissue paper, if good enough for Bob Clearmountain then should be good enough for the rest of us as a reference. Great video as always.

I prefer reference monitors to be positioned or mounted vertically like yours. That puts the time alignment at the speaker's crossover point to be more in alignment. No I do not raise my wiring off the floor.

Your speakers are spot on. I've compared many speakers, the ones i've kept are NS-10M STUDIO. Make sure to not get non-STUDIO, i really dislike those.

My everyday home speakers are an old pair that had been stored in the loft for over twenty years. They were a bit dusty when I got them out, but cleaned up nicely, and sound fine for enjoying music. I can even hear them when I am cooking things in the kitchen. 🙂 Great video; tells it like it is!

You stated it right, they are reference speakers, I have different types on my desk, even small pc speakers. Because the music that you master must sound "great" on smaller devices too, and if I want to test the material wonderful, then I go to my car, that's also a reference. With the years you learn these techniques.

Yes, revealing speakers which make you hear all the problems are the thing for monitoring.

I listen to my old budget JBL monitors vertical. They even made it to where you could twist the JBL logo 90 degrees in which to accommodate this. I have 9 pairs of speakers that I use in rotation, or set up in multiple systems in my home at times, all of which are wrong. Been listening near field for 50+ years by now, starting with the suitcase Victrola arranged on the floor when I was a lad, with 45s scattered allover the rug. That close-up listening habit followed me throughout life, even when the equipment became much larger.

Nice video. I have the same speakers. I used to have them horizontal but have recently been experimenting with them in vertical position while I'm in the process of moving my studio round. People always comment that I've got them set up wrong but as you point out - They can be used both ways. I've found out the expensive way that it's important to drive these with a decent amp with plenty of power. Replacement drivers aren't cheap, or even easy to find.

You do consider lobing in the crossover regionand yes diagonal would fix that offset in theory! Also edge diffraction will be different I suspect vertical mount gives a more consistent dispersion through the treble. Fascinating stuff. No wrong really all speakers are terrible with square waves anyway

I really enjoyed your commentary, and I agree with you. I have developed the notion that I want my speakers to sound the same way the orchestra sounds if I was sitting in front of the orchestra live. I don't want enhanced lo or high end, I don't want any coloration. I just want the speakers to be flat and pure and give the same sound that I'd hear if I was sitting directly in front of the performers. Is that wrong? There are discussions about having the tweeters farthest in toward center, and the woofers toward the outside... but I'm not sure I have an opinion about that. Nor do I have an opinion about vertical or horizontal positioning. I just want my monitors (I use Yamaha HS5 monitors) to sound clean and accurate. I do voice over from a home studio, and I want my narrations to be crisp and clear, but not overdone. I think having accurate speakers is a big part of that.

I enjoyed this british and professional answer to complains of some smart-arse amateurs.

Nicely done and very interesting.

Wise man, wise words.

Paul McCartney!! Lovely!

Someone one bought a bass guitar from a Music shop and was really impressed. So i went to the music shop and mentioned that someone I knew had bought a bass guitar from them and it was great and they were happy, And the shop assistant chirped up and was clearly proud to hear about a happy customer, then I said I was confused, I didnt realize there was such a thing as a bass guitar that didnt sound good..... The speakers a fine, Our heads are all wrong....

My monitors are flat within 4 db from 18 hz to well beyond 20khz ( tweeters go to 45k) in my room, but if I want to hear just the midrange, I put a highpass and lowpass on my mix to see how it sounds.

Another brilliant video :) Misunderstanding tends to breed misinformation, which is often disseminated by well-meaning amateurs: those whose knowledge of a subject is sketchy are always prey to the intuitively plausible but utterly wrong explanation for one phenomenon or another. You can place it however you want. Why? Because NS10 began its life as a domestic hi-fi speaker in '78, but it was relatively poorly received and quickly faded towards obscurity. Later on, in the mid '80's after few mixing engineers used it, Yamaha decided to re-brand it 'NS10M Studio'. That's it. Nothing "magic". Use it, do mixes and be happy🙂

This was great!

i expected the worst from this title, but very reasonable takes! i’ll check out some more of your content

I just use two paper cups, connect a wool-wire to the XLRs out of my mixer. Just make s(h)ure the mixer outs are set to mic. Voila, free NS10s.

Omg, who didn't knew these SUPER basic reasons, can say don't know a damn about speakers in general and sound. Still amazed you had to explain these reasons. This was a hard one😂 🤦🏻‍♂️

Nice Job mate!!

LOL, the smart-ass comments here 😂. So much technical blabla , while the video already explains everything. Hilarious. They have to vent I guess.

LOL! Apparently you underestimate the determination of youtube commenters! I might have gone on at length to explain that the relationship between the two drivers to themselves and to the baffle does not change when the speaker is rotate. And I would like to note that if I stood on my head while listening to the speakers in their "correct" orientation, they would still sound the same! It's good to be thorough! :)

I always thought that Yamaha's NS speaker series was well reviewed and considered very good sound. As Yamaha receivers in the 1970's/80's had a "clinical" (dry?) sound I guess they wanted similar results in their speakers. Personally, I agree with Yamaha and prefer amps with that sound. I've found my Hitachi SR-804 (1979) has that sound. Clinical or accurate and very desirable to me. At least thru my Ohm model L and H loudspeakers.

Relatively new here, like your content and I must admit to taking a shine to AI Girl. Two reasons to keep coming back.🙄

Good evening Mr Mellor. I am blessed with a pair of stacked Quad ESLs (aka ESL 57s.) A friend once told me that the bass response on these was totally crap. I know these speakers have their limitations, but the frequency response from the lower mid-range to the mid high range on these speakers is phenomenal. And that is what I want to hear. Thumping bass has its place, but not in my lounge. I have suspended wooden floors, and pressed steel ceilings and this is definitely not an "audiofoolery good room." But I don't care, because I am hearing the music the way I prefer it. The vocal reproduction is quite incredible albeit female, male, choral pieces et al. Listening to classical music is quite sublime on these speakers, as well as jazz, blues, folk and so on. The lovely deep bass and trilling highs of a pipe organ I will go and listen to in a cathedral, church, auditorium or similar location. Plus, and this is the most important point, I do not have "golden ears" anymore - I have been blighted with permanent tinnitus since 2001. However, I still enjoy my music - from LPs (many of the older ones are not available in a digital format,) CDs and SACDs. I have not had the opportunity to move to high quality streaming. In closing - I really enjoy the way you cut to the chase and call the BS exactly what it is. I do have some slightly more expensive speaker cables in my system than just normal types, but that is because of the change between my Bedini amp and the speakers. The Quads do present a rather different load (capacitive) than normal speakers do, but my cables are no more than studio level Mogami 3082 co-axial which are roughly $5 per metre, and I have a total of 2 x 4m per channel. People will say this is unnecasary but I will refer them to this article (sound-au.com/cablewhitepaper.htm) that explains the reasons for using this cable with the ESLs. Thank you for always interesting topics. All the best from a chilly South Africa. My speakers are wonderful. Wrong for most but good for me.

Damn those NS10 grot boxes. I`m glad they are no longer a standard. That being said, your ears get used to what they get used to, so I`m not going to yuck your yum. Many a solid mix has been done with NS10`s as part of the process.

As long as it sounds good. Up, down or sideways, your ears are the judge.

Glad I could help.

I've definitely notied the Paul resemblance. Eric Idle... That's a bit of a stretch. _Eh? Eh? Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge! Say no more!_

Vertical is correct. The tweeter should always be vertical to the woofer.

Get this man and Steve Albini in the same room and it's going to end a fist fight or the greatest sounding recording of all time.

As long as the tweeters are at ear level, you can mount them any which way... Using them vertically, as you said, allows the listener to move horizontally and not have any phase/freq. response problems. Since we normally don't move our heads up and down when listening but do normally move a little left or right, you will get the most accurate response using them vertically... Just don't stand up... LOL... I have Kali Audio LP-6 monitors which are becoming the budget standard and very accurate for the money...

My dear sir listen to whatever you want to listen to on whatever speaker you want to listen to it on who are these people I own some of Yamaha studio monitors myself I enjoy my music daily! Enjoy your life who cares what other people think... really!!!

L like yammis! There smaller models are quite Good given the reason there being used..I rarely see them used any more.ill keep looking!!

I guess this clears up my confusion about a setup I recently saw in a video (by Andrew Masters) of Tim Pierce's home studio, where he has his Adam Audio S3a monitors placed vertically. Besides the manual mentioning they are supposed to be placed horizontally due to the position of the "woofer-midrange units" - I assume - it's not THAT big of a deal (at least how he uses them). Great channel - superb content! Cheers :)

Al good points, especially about Eric and Paul. But why did Yamaha make these with a left and right orientation? Why is the tweeter offset anyway. If both units were on a central axis to the box it wouldn't matter which was left or right. Two identical speakers would be made symmetrical by turning one upside down.