Wow... incredible... The tones they both get are amazing... Allan is as we see and hear is Allan. I have followed his entire career and have seen him 8 times and he's always been unbelievable... what he's playing here is as he's always said - "that he often strives for his guitar to sound like a Reed instrument" mainly a clairanet". He got it here man. He would have fallen right into the Inerstellar Space album with John Coltrane with the amazing tone he got for this treat he and Dweezill gave us. To me Dweezill often watches Allan here and he's totally mesmerized. Then Allan watches Dweezill and smiles as if to say your father would be so proud. This duet here, this is one you always hold onto... Much thanks to whoever posted this one !!!
This is probably one of the most awesome moments ever captured on video. it's certainly one of my favourites now, and i'm so glad he did this before he passed.
Rest in peace Allan Holdsworth.. I think about you all the time and miss you it's really nice to watch you play when you're not melting people's faces and you're just being slow and melodic
Alex, The real problem here is not Allan it's the sound quality or lack of sound in the recording . I bet those lucky folks in the crowd heard this in a much better quality of sound coming off the stage than we hear on this poor sound recording . It's a cell phone clip what does anyone expect but that . Frank would have loved his soloing. Sad they are both gone & the world of guitar music has lost two genius's .
Dweezil, keep it up young man. I'm 55 and hope to die listening to your fathers music. You have surpassed all expectations with your musicianship. You father was one of a kind...I hope you can capture his genius in your lifetime.
When he finally start to get into gear,it sounds like his guitar is out of tune.I admit I have heard him better than this. Its like he cant really get started his usual flurry of notes.Maybe a lil in the end.Dwezill on the other hand, is great as usual.
And Wes Montgomery. Zappa loved Wes Montgomery's style even though, in general, he was no fan of Jazz. He thought it was a music style with no real passion behind it made only to impress a pseudo-intellectual audience of snobs. The other Jazz artists he dug were Eric Dolphy, Charles Mingus and Bill Evans. Most of his band were blown away by the Mahavishnu Orchestra when they toured with them as an opening act but Zappa was lukewarm in his reaction saying only that "A person would have to be a moron not to appreciate McLaughlin's technique. He certainly has found a way to operate a guitar as if it were a machine gun, but I'm not always enthusiastic about the notes that are played." Zappa would often appreciate the satirical potential of a musician's style even if he did not exactly like the style. That's why he had that song called "Variations on the Carlos Santana Secret Chord" on Shut Up & Play Yer Guitar and had Al Di Meola come on stage and jam with the band and make a bit of a hyperactive wad-blowing fool out of himself on the song "Clowns in Velvet." Apparently, Zappa wanted to release it on Tinseltown Rebellion (almost certainly for the satirical value & the fact that a famous virtuoso was on it rather than any pure musicality) but Di Meola, probably realizing he was going to look like an ego-tripping moron precisely because he was so intent on blowing everyone away with speed, refused to allow the release.
John Fred Yes. He very much liked Jeff Beck's style. There's an old article from the early 1970's where he praises Beck's playing. Of course, he knew Beck personally, as well. Most of these British musicians were fans of Frank and visited his house in Laurel Canyon when they were in L.A. Also, some of the GTO groupies that were associated with Frank were very much into the Jeff Beck Group, especially in its Rod Stewart and Ron Wood incarnation of the late 1960's. There's a great Dutch made documentary on you tube on Zappa where one of the groupies who is babysitting Dweezil describes her experiences with Jeff Beck himself. Zappa also, bizarrely enough, loved the Black Sabbath song "Supernaut," although, in general, he was even less of a fan of the heavy-metal genre (which his son Dweezil loved) than Jazz.
And Steve Vai, Mike Kenneally, Lowell George, and Tony Durant. I get the feeling that Frank wanted a guitarist to match what was going on in his own music, at the time. He used them like 'tools'. (No disrespect meant.)
I agree, Holdsworth is trying to go wayyy outside here in spots and its bit hit and miss. Plus his tone got to be crap by this point in his career. You got to like that he's not afraid to just go for it though.
It kind of works if you listen closely. He's trying to create tension and release but it's tough to do against such a harmonically stationary backing without sounding like you just played the wrong notes. The audio quality of the recording isnt doing it any favours either.
The first minute or two( Holdsworth soloing) is definetly rough, I was surprised that he initially had trouble finding the key center or whatever. Some people don’t know that if you get your technique fast enough, in many cases you can play almost anything( but very fast)! As long as your headed to the default key. I am oversimplifying , but even notes normally clashing, they are so close to the next note in key, your ear only hears the odd notes quickly, so they aren’t bum notes. Again, simple… in this jam at certain points Holdsworth is taking a wide interval lick and going up in half steps, but again…so fast that you just hear a climbing vibe. He put out some book, really cool, discussing some of his licks and the plan/logic , probably out of print but for sale somewhere.
Why does everyone think Holdsworth is screwing up here? I hear Allan playing his style here, but pretty far out just the way Zappa would have liked it. Zappa loved atonal weird stuff and that is what Holdsworth is playing. He's playing what Zappa would have got a kick out of. What, is he supposed to just play a bunch of arpeggios and blues pentatonic licks like every other guitar player would do? what's the point? You don't bring HD on stage for that. He sounds like a 60's tenor player on acid, its great and unique as always! He was never one to play down to the crowd. He looks like he's having a good time to me.
I saw Allan play in Paris this same year. It was on his own music with Jimmy Haslip and Virgil Donati backing him. Was quite good. He could still bring it some nights at that time.
Great hearing Holdsworth play in this setting. Does'nt matter how many chords he still plays with emotion. Great stuff. I like the difference in styles between the players.
Holdsworth had already paid his dues. It would have been an honor just to have him in the room. Zappa is being magnanimous to a man who, to many others, was a musician just short of divine. I only hope Holdsworth felt and accepted (hard for Holdsworth) the honor that was bestowed on him.
Reading comments while listening means I'm not watching the video - just listening to the music - and it sounds great. I read comments like "just look at their faces, it says it all" - no, the music says it all. How you interpret the music, the faces, is about you, not about them. Saw one post saying they wouldn't have posted this video. I never got to see AH and DZ on stage together. Very happy to see this and, more importantly, hear it. I scrolled up a few times to "see" the video, but it is better to me without the video, although it's great to be able to check it out anyway here or there.
Is not a tribute to Zappa, is the base of the song and Holdsworth playing his chromatic style above, dont like it, is not a version its a jam with 0 of the song original feeling.
@@PinyataSpirit Holdsworth was never one to ever play in any style but his, at least that's what I've gathered from listening to him a bunch. I respect him for that
I am so pleased (as I know his parents are) with Sir Dweezil for keeping his family treasures alive! Us old geezers will always love ZAPPA. I will always love Dweezil for keeping it alive and appreciated by many new and younger listeners who can see and hear the GENIUS that was Frank Zappa!!! I assure you, every one in that band could play with Frank! Sheila Gonzales I love you!!! Met you in Orlando Florida!! She is one of the most awesome musicians whom I have ever met!! I have met a few....... We=mc2
"One of the most interesting guys on guitar on the planet is Allan Holdsworth. I really respect his playing.” - Frank Zappa many in the comments appear to be either ignorant of this man's virtuosity and connection to Frank, or just bullies otherwise. the dude was like pushing 70 and just doing what he loved.
pity for those heads of you which dont understand this brilliant improvisations. The way he searches the tones is so great. And he is not afraid to use the most daring tones... totally kick ass.
"I know that there are people in the audience who really like what I do, and so there's no real reason for me to be afraid of that because nobody's really looking for anything. But at the same time, it doesn't help me from not being scared to death. I just kind of freeze up, clam up...and if I start thinking two or three chords ahead, I'm dead. In my mind, where I get to this one chord where I can't remember what it is...as soon as I catch that up in real time, it's the big screw up. "
A lot of people seem to dislike Holdsworth's playing here, but I beg to differ. He gets off to a slow start, but really starts killing later in the song.
I remember hearing this some years ago and thinking "What a horrid atonal mess! Yuck!" Then I started listening to a LOT more Allan, and finally trained my brain and ears... and realised his utter demigod-level genius. Now I hear it and think "What a glorious atonal mess! Yum!" To be able to draw notes from the unique, rich harmonic language that Allan developed over a lifetime, and to play that over a two chord vamp is pretty damn amazing to me. He's not out of tune; that's just Allan! It's the note choices that are challenging. You may not like it aesthetically of course, and that's ok! I know I tried for 20 years to "get it" and it's only been a relatively recent development in my life. Rick Beato talks about "High Information Music" and Allan's most definitely is this. Also, look up Rick's video essay about "Immunity to Dissonance"; as your neurology adapts, your taste will alter in response to e.g. a minor second, which sounds atonal to many, many people. Look up "Allan Holdsworth Trio - The Sixteen Men Of Tain" on RU-vid, from the 1997 Frankfurt Jazz Festival, and if you don't like that, that's ok too, but Allan's shtick is the exploration of all the notes on the guitar that very much challenge the pianistic traditions and patterns that have been played by the vast majority of musicians over the last 300 years. I'd argue that E minor pentatonic sounds good over a specific blues progression not necessarily because of any biological reason (I'm aware that some argue this) but largely because of cultural conditioning. It took time, but I realise now why Eddie Van Halen, Frank Zappa, Joe Satriani and Steve Vai all hold Allan in such high regard. It's not just peer politeness; he dared to do something extremely different and found beauty in non-conventional chord and note choices, in the same way that Edgard Varèse, Igor Stravinsky and Arnold Schoenberg did. In the same way that Miles and Coltrane did. Once you "get it" you'll find endless treasures to enjoy in Allan's oeuvre. Not easy by any means, but 10,000% worth it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Alien Holdsworth.
Is not a tribute to Zappa, is the base of the song and Holdsworth playing his chromatic style above, dont like it, is not a version its a jam with 0 of the song original feeling.
About a year ago I was one of the guys who slammed Holdsworth for playing ''sucky''. But I have to admit, THIS is the video/solo I want to listen over, and over, and over again. It has something I can not comprehend
I think allan purposely played none of the chord tones Like the philosophy of the C major scale if you play Eb minor pentatonic , you are playing all the tones that are NOT in C major. Just as with the altered scale half the tones are in a V7 chord the other tones are out Atonal is all tension no resolution in this case .
Many who first encounter Allan’s music and soloing are dumbstruck. Even other musicians. Part of the obscurity of Allan’s music is that the technical bar to play like him is so high. Also many jazzers do not really consider him a jazz musician. Even Jazz Fusion could be a misleading term regarding Allan. When I first got into him, as many others, you knew something very unique and distinctive was happening. You could be fascinated by his solo lines, but also feel that he was in his own universe , so alien to most musical styles. A maverick and true innovator, but also refusing to budge an inch regarding what he would play. EVH tried to help him out, seeing that sometimes Allan would play some very innovative hard rock riffs, but Eddie said those riffs in the studio would be always altered until they no longer sounded anything like the original. Well that’s an artist, he sticks to his guns.
I love Allan. I feel as though he didn't play as his usual self. I have heard all of his records and listened to him live many times. I have never heard him trying to make chaos, as it seems here. I think, he wanted to do something weird that Zappa would like.
he went outside and closed the door the he went into another dimension after that and in that other dimension he started a family and lived there for 90 years, which lasted only a minute in his previous dimension, then he fell into a black hole and again he closed the door after himself. That's how far outside he went.
nice one when Frank zappa was asked a few years before he passed who did he rate as a Guitarist he said only one and he is playing here . the one thing that makes alan special he has his own chords and nobody knows what they are.many only scratch the surface trying to copy him
Allan hated cliche licks, this chord progression is very pretty yet kind of corners you a bit with regards of what scales to use in a typical fashion. Dweezil is a mega guitarist but pretty safe in what he does, Allan is just doing the opposite, it’s very cool, one of my favourite vids of him live.
Absolute Genius. Well played Mr Holdsworth, you just trolled everyone well and good!! If you cant hear the slight detune chorus effect or the harmony effect he's using, or see what hes doing with his hands, or you think his guitar is out of tune then you missed it! Given it is a lot to take in... Listen to him again @2:17 then again the passage from 3:20 to 3:50, completely in tune and played, outside... but played. Then at 3.52 he depresses the floating bridge slightly and it goes out of tune, ON PURPOSE! He went on with this aural assault throughout the whole song. At the end of the day it doesnt matter what you or I think. Was he drunk? Maybe. He's still Alan fucking Holdsworth and if you had any respect for him you'd try to understand what he was doing instead of complaining that it doesnt sound nice. He decided to take the unplayed path that day and if you dont like it, then go back to listening to "secrets" where it was safe. He's left the rest of us behind... Well played Mr Holdsworth, well played.
THE BROTOG Hahaha, well... nice try. What's your take on the chord at 8:40 then? I have nothing against Allan or his music, but he's clearly out of his comfort zone here. I see no point in trying to extract something of value from a performance where someone's fumblin in the dark, trying to find a way to fit ideas in a context where it ultimately fails (HARD). This is not a man playing what he hears inside his head, if that's what you guys really believe.
MrSlimfinger Haha, fair call. I actually agree that it looks and sounds like hes out of his depth, or even coherent. What makes me think otherwise is Dweezil being totally unfazed by what Holdsworth is doing, that's what makes me think it was fully intentional and planned that way. Dweezil's playing is beautiful and tasteful, Alan's is the total opposite. To be completely honest, he keeps changing patches so much its unmusical and kinda offensive, but it looks like he meant it that way from the beginning. In all honesty he can do whatever he wants after all, im not that interested in his music either these days but dweezil wanted him there so i guess he was prepared for anything lol. I'd like to see more video of that concert just to see what else happened ;D
+MrSlimfinger "Out of his comfort zone"? Hahahahahaha! What, vamping over two chords? The song is called 'Treacherous Cretins'. The clue is in the word cretins. Holdsworth is sending himself up here (or perhaps guitar hero wannabes: Christ, I bet he's had enough of them send him their CDs). Zappa had no problem trolling the audience with nonsense and this continues in that tradition.
Love this video of Alan. He really was on another level from everyone else. I respect this might not be to everyone’s taste but if you have any doubt, look up his videos on RU-vid with soft machine, etc.
Allan can play whatever he likes !!! Haters can’t play s*** so they criticize. They are stuck in that play fast licks and shred it to death. If they listened to scoffield , lage lund, Julian lage they would explode. RIP ALLAN you da man
I think allen holdsworth is the only guitrist ive ever heard who actually just plays whatever he wants regardless to the context of the music, and to me thats true creative freedom.
Wow, so much hate on the comments... Holdsworth has always being an "outside" player, like many great jazz musicians from the 60's like Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy, Coltrane in his later years... Holdsworth's actually playing in his style here, and - except for the beginning when he's trying to define which timbre to use - he actually goes outside and (usually) finishes his lines in the key of the ostinato under the solo. He seems to be strugling, but its just his weird facial expressions.
Frank rarely commented on guitarists but he did say he was very impressed by Allan Holdsworth. I have been a major fan of AH since Bruford, JLP and UK. When I first heard the audio of this I was a bit put off but now seeing it, I have a better appreciation of what he was doing. I do think he was having some equipment difficulties and he was trying to put a Holdsworthian stamp on a very simple little tune. Any of the detractors here ever hear much FZ? He was constantly sculpting air in ways that didn't always work or took a while to gel. This is an honest tribute to FZ unlike many even great players have pulled off. Would like to hear more once he got more comfortable.
I don't care about the audio quality, technical glitches or what have you. Just cool to see Allan jamming along with Dweezil here. Seemed like there were some issues for Alan when he first started, but as it stretched out, it was worth the wait for me.
This looks to be a jam session where sound checks may not even have been done, not sure why it's even posted. It's obvious that he's got technical issues and is not comfortable. Any who post disrespectful comments about Allan in this context obviously have NO clue of his technical guitar mastery, nor his incredible body of work since the freakin 1960's.
I'd definitely say its a mix of his guitar being a bit out of tune, nerves, and just not feeling the backing track (this is some pretty monotonous stuff, especially compared to what Allan loves to play).
anyone who thinks he is out of tune, is, well, out of tune...he seems to be exploring the harmonic, and tonal possibilities within these two chords and looks like hes having fun doing it. i had fun listening
This video proves Allan was not an alien but in fact a wonderful humble human being capable of making mistakes like all of us. His music will help inspire generations to come.
It's great. You are listening to Zappa music , and FZ solos were like sculptures... They were far out there. And Holdsworth is far out there too. He seems a little lost at the beginning , but he catches up at the end. and he also seem to have same trouble with his gear. I am not sure he is in tune. We don't have the context. Was he invited without preparation ????.... This is great I think. Were you expecting Van Halen ????????????????
Yeah, and I totally agree with that point of view; this IS great Music, not only Zappa's Music; I can't keep but being impressed by this old British Outta-this-world gentleman-guitarist playing with Dweezil Zappa, so young and brilliant as well as respectful of his father's musical inheritage; I don't really care if Mr Holdsworth was "out of tune" or drunk or whatever...I just got a thrill listening to that unique duet. I enjoy as well Dweezil playing with Steve Vai or any other great Musicians; THIS IS GREAT and I loved it; and i'll always do. Anyway, thanks for posting this document!
Wow! This is radical. Fair play to AH for going so far out that even his fans are scratching their heads. In all seriousness, there's a possibility his monitors may be lying to him if the effects are in stereo and he's only hearing half of it or there's an effect that's not coming through the foldback because, modern jazzer though he may be, I don't think that he'd have liked some of the sounds he's making. You can see what he's going for but the effects are taking it somewhere else.
Holdsworth haters can buzz off. Zappas was/are awesome. Holdsworth is otherworldly. He is not drunk or out of tune here. Saw him 2 weeks ago live. My 11 year son got it and loved it. He is "The Man" without a doubt. You don't appreciate him it's your loss.
If people here cant recognize an out of tune guitar, then they're not fit to comment on ANY music, let alone Holdsworth's. It was out of tune. It doesn't mean I hate him. It was out of tune.
Mr. H. is not erring here. Not at all. I have seen him perform plenty enough to know how he reacts when even one note is not to his liking.. His delivery here is most intentional...and wonderfully inspired.
Hi chromosoulmatic, just wanted to correct something someone told you regarding your question: it is not c, your mode of choice is A Mixolydian b13. there is no modulation, meaning you can play this mode over both chords: Dm maj7, A add9. ( IVm maj, I add 9 ) the time signature is an ordinary 4/4 with some shuffled accents. I hope that helps.
as much as I love Allan and his music, fandom apart, this video just shows us that Allan was human too. Please, don't try to escuse him, or try to find "beauty"where there's none. He's still the best. (RIP ALLAN HOLDSWORTH)
I first saw Allan with Tony Williams at My Father's Place in 1975. I was like holy crap where did he come from and what the hell is he doing? I bought the Lifetime album. Some sick runs. From the it took me until 2004 or 5 to get my wife to a concert with him. Front row at the IMAC ten feet from Alan. Before that she couldn't get it. After the concert she said she could listen to him all day.
If you know anything about Allan you know that he was close to the end of his life here. He has completely lost it and according to his band mates he was beyond intoxicated for every gig and his musicality was pretty much gone at this time. As much of a fan as I am I recognize shit when I see it. It’s not incomprehensible; there’s nothing to get. We are witnessing a sick man who has no clue what he’s doing. He was the worlds best guitarist a few years before this and here he’s a shadow of himself.
Kaspen82 unfortunately there’s a lot of people “pretending” to get it. The Allan we know and love is much much better than this, outside playing or not.
All you experts below, go listen to ANY live version of this by F.Z. and see if there's much difference. I think you're just trying to pick holes where there are none 'cos Frank's dead and you're not happy to see someone almost as good playing his music. And bear in mind, half of Allan's guitar's obviously been chopped off by some irate Zappa fan like you! And also bear in mind that Mr. Holdsworth was Frank's guitar hero in the late '80s. If you think it's that badly out of tune, your hearing's messed up. And, even if it WAS, blame the guitar techs, not Allan. They wouldn't have carried on playing themselves if it was serious enough to hear, they would have asked the audience to indulge them while they tuned up, the work of thirty seconds. And the audience wouldn't have minded. But I hear them cheering. Or perhaps they're booing 'cos it's so badly out of tune?
I saw him in late 2012 and he was much better. He was playing at his usual high caliber. it was also good to be able to talk with him after the show and to go to a guitar clinic he did the next day. Here, he didn't seem like himself.
Interesting video. I like to think I have reasonably developed ears, but Allan Holdsworth has developed to a level where I find it quite challenging to follow what he's doing. But I do start to enjoy his playing a couple of minutes into his solo, and I get the impression that Dweezil's soloing improves after listening to AH's extended solo. It's like Holdsworth's no-rush, thoughtful approach is rubbing off on Dweezil. Nice to see how Dweezil keeps on developing and expanding over time. His solos are quite musical.
Allan stretches the modal boundaries and clearly delights delights Dweezil. I have been listening to these Zappa recordings since they came out. Holdsworth plays bits of the recording, but improvs in a fututistic and expressive way that would have made Frank stop and stare just as Dweezil does. Awesome. Allan tries to get even freakier at the end, but Dweezil doesn't follow his lead. He keeps the song a bit closer to it's original script.. remember this is about "treacherous" Cretins ...not friendly ones
Drunk Holdsworth + out-of-tune guitar + 2 chord jam = "oh my fucking god what the hell am I supposed to do here... fuck it, I'll pull out the most outside licks I know"
I think Allan's playing is absolutely brilliant in the way that he was absolutely brilliant and completely on another level of musical exploration than most; just like Zappa was. Dweezil plays really well and beautifully but in a traditional sense. No one can play in the way Holdsworth plays, even John McLaughlin said he'd steal licks from him if he could understand what he was doing. Is it the right format to showcase Allan's brilliance? No. It's like asking Ornette Coleman to play his style over a simple jazz standard. You're going to get some wild dissonance between the straight ahead style of the song and the off in another world style of Ornate. Anyway, there isn't a hater here who could even approach Allan, even when he "screws up" or is challenged to play what we'd expect. I wish we could have seen a collaboration between Allan and Frank, because it would have been incredible.
