TERRAN deleted units - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JTKCaodyzZo.html PROTOSS deleted units - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TlqBhNw_RRU.html Timecodes: 00:00 Units that never made it to the ladder 00:13 Unit №1 02:03 Unit №2 02:44 Unit №3
If you're curious, the editor has the Defiler, Guardian (hots campaign one), and Devourer labeled as MP units that were intended to go into multiplayer, they likely never made it all the way, or were scrapped pretty early on but made fully for the campaign and kept the MP designation.
Scourge/Baneling is a unit composition that would never see the light of day. Scourge in today's meta would've hard-countered Liberators, Void Rays, Colossi, and every capital ship unit in SC2.
But that's also their role in the Zerg roster in SC1, they were your BEST bet in taking out capital ships as back then you didn't have the option of the Devourer until Brood War dropped meaning Zerg players were pretty much stuck with just using Mutas with Hydralisks if they wanted to have some form of Anti-Air, the Scourge made things balanced versus capital ships as it took roughly three to take out one Battlecruiser and roughly six to take out one Carrier both of which were also rather expensive to sink money into.
@@cursedhawkins1305 It took 5 to take out 1 Battlecruiser, assuming that they could get to it; in practice the Battlecruiser would always kill 1 with a single shot (Battlecruisers in StarCraft 1 did 1 big shot instead of a lot of little shots). The problem was that with the selection limit of 12 units regardless of how powerful, it was extremely difficult to coordinate a large enough army of Scourge to take on 12 Battlecruisers -- the Battlecruisers would just 1-shot them all if they weren't perfectly grouped and timed (it has been done but is very rare even at the pro level). Mitigating this was the fact that it was very hard in StarCraft 1 for Terran to tech to Battlecruisers when playing against Zerg (or for that matter Protoss) -- if you could afford to make Battlecruisers, you probably didn't need to.
I think the thing to do if Scourge were to be reintroduced would be to rebalance their damage type (was untyped in StarCraft 1) and cost so that they would still be effective against capital ships but not against other combat ships.
One unit I really miss is devourer, single target damage with an aoe splash debuff that reduces attack speed and armor, it was the best capital ship counter, and combined with mutas or hidras it used to be a slaughter of capital ships, they removed 2 hard counters to air units for zerg, yes but terran got heavy canon thors and protoss just mass voids
@@Appletank8 yeah but it's not for zerg, makes marines do more damage but they still have a ton of aoe and high single target damage like siege tanks, widow mines and thors (anti light/anti armor cannons)
The swarm guardian is still present in The Lost Viking(the arcade game you could play in wings), a shame it was basically just a guardian from sc1. The OG infester also got reused for the blightbringer in the Nova covert ops mission “night terrors”.
To think we almost had an iconic unit that would prevent low level toss and Terran from turtling one base and trying to max capitals. What a shame that would have been.
Btw, scourge would, if implemented, likely not have AoE, being having instead high single target damage has a suicide attack, like it does in WoL, in brood war and in coop when it isent upgraded. I do wish they were added since zerg lacks in both the air and anti-air departments, being the race with the least air unit AND the race with the least units that can hit air
That ability sounds nearly identical to the SC1 Queen which was the Zerg's original air spellcaster and could implant a parasite inside any unit, granting you full vision of anything it sees(so you can spy on enemy bases) as well as detection, so it seems natural it would be reused for the Viper. Then it was removed, but at least it was re-implemented in Coop where Stukov can make Brood Queens, which act just like the old SC1 queens. Though now, it also boosts vision range by 5 as well, which since he focuses a ton on spamming huge swarms of cheap but timed infested marines, you can toss a parasite on a marine in the back and let the ones in the front still fight against cloaked/burrowed units just fine. They're unfortunately not nearly as good as Vipers though. I'd imagine they'd be great in multiplayer, but Coop scales everything up so far that of all the possible ways to play Stukov with his unit comps and mastery/prestige choices, they are really an entirely optional unit in all but one comp, Prestige 3 Bunker spam where they more serve to just delete stuff like Siege tanks or Colossi via Spawn Broodling.
@@Late0NightPC My understanding was that the Viper's ability was to place it on your own units instead of the enemies and it would be a detector but maybe the sc1 queen ability was what they had in mind. I never saw it in play so really wouldn't know.
Scourges were in sc1, since units controlled were limited to 12, it made sense (though they would still be hard countered a by sc1 battlecruisers who could kill them in 1-2 hits depending on upgrades), not only that, they didn't have splash damage. Scourges would be considerably stronger in sc2 without the unit control cap, as evidenced by their use in zagaras co op army, which added splash damage to boot
You forgot to mention another important difference that makes Scourge way stronger in SC2 (Zagara's army in Co-op is also proof of this): in SC1, you could dive any number of Scourges against a unit as long as its "death" animation hasn't occurred. This means that you can overkill units, wasting the excess scourge (for example, a muta dies from 2 scourge connections in SC1, but you can have, say, 10 scourges hit that muta before its death animation kicks in and it dies). This was corrected in SC2, so you cannot waste Scourge by for example ordering your army to connect on a single air unit. Everything else is correct except for one thing: Battlecruisers in SC1 didn't hard counter scourge, it was the other way around (and they pretty much hard counter everything on air except perhaps valkyries and corsairs). For the cost of a Battlecruiser you can get 5-6 scourge eggs, meaning 10-12 Scourges (depending on how you consider the gas cost compared to mineral cost), each egg takes up 1 supply (vs 6 from a BC) they take way less time to build and only 5 have to connect to kill the BC. Even though the BC with just 1 weapon upgrade can one-shot scourges, their rate of fire is not high so a BC will kill 1, maybe 2 scourges before the rest dive in and kill it, so usually you only need to build 6-8 to take down a BC efficiently.
@@spooneater9001 400 scourge would absolutely DEMOLISH 12 BCs. I get your point, but that is not the definition of a hard counter. A hard counter is a unit that can kill way more of a certain other unit in terms of cost (money cost and supply cost), assuming other things are equal (build time of the supply-equivalent, positioning with regards to terrain, upgrades, etc.). There are very few actual hard counters in SC1 I think (like scourge to BCs or vultures to zealots, although the latter can be disputed in a scenario of non-microing the units), and a few more in SC2 (like hellbats to zerglings). Everything else is actually soft counters (meaning that Now, back to the Scourge. What makes scourge seem weak against large BC numbers is that they are hard to micro to avoid overkills, it can be tricky to have the right number of Scourges to take out whatever number of BCs the opponent has (while also not having too much scourge), and to be efficient you cannot rely on the unit AI to just A-move, you have to micro the scourge. So yes, Scourge in SC2 would have been much stronger than in SC1 but that's not because of the absence of hard counters compared to SC1, but rather because of how much easier the mechanics are to use them effectively.
@@Crateron1 I'd show you if I still had my sc1 install disc, but...it's why they went with tiny pew pew lasers in sc2 rather than that long girthy laser attack of sc1 having a large mass of flying 500hp hammers was borderline unstoppable without spells. I'm certain you're right about corsairs, but I've never seen that many in action in my games.
Love your videos, but the queen bro, the queen! The initial concept of queen was similar to a mothership core, it was big, you could build only one and it could nydus itself to each given bases.
Really like the swarm guardian design. I hope that they will be back in the future expansion, but now have Air to Air attack and does bounce damage same as mutalisk. Fix the "zerg have no aoe" meme, and also make Mutalisk not so much of mass or miss kind of unit anymore. I mean what the point of MUTAlisk when they themselves can't mutate?
Not only that but in broodwar they also overkill if you dont control them, making them extremely not cost effective if you a-move them. They were more assasination units than combat units. I dont mind scourge with better pathing and no overkilling, but the splash is unneccesary.
they could had included the scourge nest in zerg campaign to multiplayer game but just nerf it even more. it will be a cool one time static arial defense for the zerg.
I wish a game would allow a build-your-own type critter economy. Some units would be: - Scourge: small air frame + explosive charge - Baneling: small ground frame + explosive charge - Zergling - small ground unit + melee attack + speed - hit points - Hydralisk - small ground unit + ranged attack This way you would have players first starting off as Zerg and attacking. They can use existing Zerg units, or design their own creatures. Later on when they play as the Zerg opponent you would have to deal with either existing Zerg units, or whatever custom units the player designed. The best designs might even be uploaded to the main company server, and those upgrades get sent around for other players to fight. it would also allow for the company to tweak the costs of different Zerg components to make the game more 'fair'. I.e. the Scourge might have a toned-down explosive charge, reduced armor, or even develop a rapid-fire anti-air ability for other factions.
@@EsportsStoryteller True, it would need a lot of testing to get rough numbers. You'd probably first make it as a freeware game of build-a-bug, then use the data from that to make the prices for the real game.
This is why SC2 is not going to be topped anytime soon, and definitely not by Stormgate, which is being built up front for multiplayer, and isn’t considering units like this that are really fun, but too broken for 1v1. But these units are bombastic and crazy, and so fun for campaign. It helps build the world, and makes you want to play the game. Every good RTS is built for campaigns with big bombastic armies, and then whittled down for 1v1. Blizzard knew how to do this so well, and cared about the world as much as we do.
Maybe they should have gone with a C&C 3 style and make two different Terran/Protoss/Zerg factions, one using the old BW units and the other using the SC2 units and allow players to choose the one they like the most.
They could have save the infestation ability I suppose. I mean, Queen in Brood War had it. It was rarely ever used in competetive match, but it was there.
Blizzard and balance have never existed in the same universe, but it's funny to think just how much worse it was in hots. It's why I quit the game back then. HotS balance was a fucking disaster.
Damn I forgot about swarm guardians. I thought they added them at some point. Maybe early liberty beta ? Also those early infestors were pretty cool. Wish they'd just try new things or allow us to try out their ideas. Highly doubt they'll make another SC, than again rts games are on the rise.
Well, in general air is not that popular in SC1 as it is in SC2, scourge are cool for Zerg cause they can destroy big air armies without investing too much larva or supply cuz they don't have injects, and ground Zerg is way better than sky so it's better for them if the enemy plays ground too.
Protoss and Terran have easily available and GOOD air-air splash. Valkyrie’s shoot Liberator missiles like a machine gun and Corsairs are in Sc2 and can kill a scourge before it can reach them.
They should have let given Zerg a scaled down form of the Leviathan from the campaign as a zerg capital ship, maybe limit them to 1 at a time like the mothership
I have a better idea for a scaled-down Leviathan. It's weaker than the Battlecruiser and the Carrier, cheaper at slightly low cost and 5 supply, but at least it deals AOE splash damage to both ground and air units. And massable to fit the Zerg's swarmy doctrine.
Its insanely hard to defend against scourge, even in StarCraft 1 where you can actually need to micro the scourge.... I can literally focus all my attention on AI controlled scourge and i still take damage like 50% of the time 😂😂😂
I think scourge is not that powerful in Starcraft1. The AI of the scourge in Starcraft 1 dosen't perform that smart in the game, it probably needs a few second to aiming, they're normally just roaming around for a while before hitting the target. Secondly, the scourge always overkill the target. For example, if the battlecruiser need 4 scourges to kill, but you select a dozzen of scourges to that battlecrusier, they might just kill themself, like how baneling works in Starcraft 2.
Scourge worked in sc1, how could they not work in sc2. If they just remade sc1 with sc2 engine, call it BW2 then merged them for custom games. I'd pay 100 bucks for that.
You didnt play starcraft one did you? I also noticed this in another video of yours. Scourge was from starcraft one. Its understandable that they tried to add it to the sequel.
in fact dark swarm was too strong. in sc1 dark swarm is OP and the only reason its not winning you ever ZvT is the fact that spellcasters in sc1 are awful to control
@@EsportsStoryteller Ok. maybe cover some small Esport? Like for some reason Stardew valley have a Tournament :D . Anyway looking forward for you next release. Good luck!
