At least a badly aligned press-fit BB interface isn't typically a lose-your-teeth problem. The ability of the bike industry to invent new uncertainties and failure modes is impressive.
Hookless isn't new. It was the norm for many decades but it wasn't tubeless. The tolerances of hookless tubeless are significantly better than those old hookless wheels/tires and better than early hooked clinchers too. I remember running 2 layers of thick cotton tape because a tire was too big. I also remember breaking beads because a tire was too small😂 I've also had sidewall blowouts on smooth roads with some of those absurdly tight tires, and I've had beads pop off the rim while riding because they were a bit too loose and I didn't add extra tape
The pen is not just working, it is stiffer and more responsive. Just like all bikes sold in 2024. More seriously, though, this is a really important video.
Yeah I agree. It has cemented my view I just won’t ride hookless. It’s just to save manufacturing costs and we are out at risk what’s the f ing point???
Not true. Like I said above if this was a REAL problem. Zipp would have been sued into oblivion in the US. Why hasn’t that happened?? If there was a real issue we’d already seen this here. I have Zipps and I see Zipps in every group I ride in. Where is the class action suit in the US against these manufacturers? There’s a freaking lawyer on every corner here waiting for you to burn your tongue on your coffee. Where are the lawsuits ? These rims have been around for 10 years
@@jimsteinway695 hookless zipps 10 years old? i dont think so. everything is good until its not, i hope the lawyers can bring you back to a full recovery or possibly back from the dead. gl with that. oh yea and the built in brake in the zipp hubs will make you stronger too. enjoy
I ride almost exclusively road and gravel. Any hookless rim gets an immediate X drawn through it whenever I’m in the market for a new wheelset. For my MTB it could be an option where I know I’ll be running very low PSIs and encountering the hits MTB rides encounter. For a road or gravel wheel hookless is a non starter despite the marketing bullshat from the companies producing them and their paid online cheerleader clowns like David Arthur, etc.,..
Rims do shrink when the tyre is inflated, reducing the BSD (bead seat diameter). How can you tell?Measure the spoke tension drop after mounting and inflating a tyre to 5 bar. Another reason to go for the safety of hooked (crotched). I have to say i think you explained the pressure vessel stuff really well and clearly.
Those with Giant SLR 0 (2020 Propel Advanced 0) will know this problem - perfectly straight wheel, mount tires not hookless compliant (Continental GP 5000 TL), wheel runs untrue. FWIW. The right tyre, on the right hookless wheel is extremely light, had no issues myself.
Im an engineer myself, albeit electrical not mech, and just basic engineering common sense told me to stay away from hookless. I always wondered how its gonna stay put at all. The tire length argument filled the gap. Now I understand why it can work at all under stringent conditions. Thank you for providing reason to my gut feeling. I stay hooked with TPU.
As another engineer, I'd say hookless would be ok if it wasn't because of the terrible tolerances for bike tires and extremely flimsy rims. You'd need to make sure, like REALLY make sure the bead of the tire won't start fatiguing with use and that is made to a good tolerance.
I wanted to stay hooked with TPU but decided to spend money on a new Canyon bike .... therefore I'm forced into hookless because only very low end models still come with hooked now :( Still using TPU on hookless ZIPP 303 FC tho lol fuck tubeless
I've been waiting for this! Zipp's claim that he hit a rock and that caused the tire to come off is INSANE. When you're riding, you often ride over rocks! No thanks, Zipp.
Just looking at the inside of the cross section of the rim Hambini cut shows a cheaply fabricated rim. Yet they want $2,000 to $4000 for wheelsets with those cheaply fabricated rims and known cheap garbage hubs. Total joker product with joker MSRPs. 😀
This is pure speculation by Hambini. He says he doesn't want to bull**** everyone with theory and then goes and does exactly that. Theory is useless in engineering unless you put numbers into the equations, which he can't do. Perhaps I'm biased because I do have Zipp hookless NSW and I did listen on. But for what it's worth, here's my experience running them tubeless with Continental GP5000 STR 28mm tyres. Firstly, fitting the tyres, they're relatively easy to get on although my thumbs weren't strong enough to do that without a lever. Seating them was amazing. They pumped up with a track pump just with normal pumping. I didn't even have to use a boost flow even though my pump has that feature. The surprising thing was that they then held their air even without sealant. My experience with pressures is very different to Hambini's. I weigh 11 stone and Zipp recommends 53-56 psi but far from the the Silca guidance (which is higher than Zipp's) being too low, I find it easy to run much lower pressures. This has not always been on purpose (e.g. after forgetting top up my sealant after a year on UK roads without any ride-stopping punctures). Even as low as 10 psi the tyres show no sign of coming off and why should they as they are firmly wedged between rims there's no pressure behind them to push them off? This is different to hooked rims. That is, whereas riding pushes hookless tyres in, hooked need pressure to keep the bead in the hook so when ridden with zero pressure they pop out. Personally, the only way I can see hookless tyres blowing off is by running them near the 70 psi limit under the mistaken belief that higher pressure is faster and then going over something kerb-like with such force that it breaks not just the tyre but the rim too. In that scenario, I'd probably be on my way to hospital whatever wheels I had. There does seem to be an optimum pressure where rolling resistance noticeably increases at very low pressures but again my experience is opposite to Hambini's: I find that optimum to be lower than the Zipp recommendation, not higher.
The pros would ride solid rubber tires if the sponsor paid enough. "Vibration attenuation no longer matters". No more pneumatic tires allowed by UCI also. They'd get on board too!
Who needs the tyre to stop on their rim anyway? For ultimate thrill seekers everywhere match a Zipp hookless rim with a Shimano Hollowtech crank and see which tries to kill you first 😂 Both prime examples of cowboy engineering.
@ThePaulKat Yeah, and set it up with a non functioning SRAM front derailleur and a Zipp/SRAM non functioning rear wheel hub. And make sure it also comes with an undersized bearing SRAM DUB bottom bracket that you can regularly burn through. More cowboy engineering. 😀
As soon as the bike industry solves a problem, they go and create a new one. Remember the problems related to tubeless and rim combination at the introduction of the former on the market ?
My engineering degree paid off in not jumping on the hookless train. Cycling industry is transforming but it pains me, at some point these designs will be more regulated. A bike is not a toy…
You don't need a degree in engineering to avoid crap pushed by marketing-mavens. Common-sense is enough but my time in bike retail proved it wasn't as common as one would like!
Both the Lun and Zipp look horrendous inside ... more wrinkles than your grandpa's sac. Also, spongy walled Zipp rims are notorious, and they frequently delaminate.
You can not like the guy’s style, or like it (I do), but this explanation is priceless. Thx mate. Well done. Now clear as crystal that I’m sticking to tubes and hooks and all.
Yep, I bought a tcr a year ago, dumped the tubeless set up for tpu tubes and different tyres. Still crap myself using them, but have another set of hooked rims which I use mostly!!! I hate tubeless hookless crap, a solution for a small problem of moulding a hook!!!!!!!!
Dude these rims have been here for 10 years. If they’re so dangerous where are the class action lawsuits in the US? If there’s a safety issue they’d been sued already
@@jimsteinway695exactly this. These videos are just putting way too much fear out to the average cyclist. Hookless is solid , these self styled experts push their agenda , then at the end shill for Chinese brands such as Winspace.
@jimsteinway695 The vast majority of those bikes are MTBs running very low PSIs where hookless makes some sense. In the road you are dealing with much higher PSIs that can be death on a hookless rim wheel if you overinflate it even by not much. That’s why.
I love how we go from lets fucking glue our tires to the rim a few years ago to hopefully the tire doesn't blow off because I blew 2 psi too much in it xD
Thanks fine lad for cutting through all the marketing guff we drown in in this industry. We were presented with this style of rim last week to set up tubeless for an MTB. Using the tyre supplied, lets just say our very experienced mechanic "carefully" blew it off the rim 3 times at less than 40psi trying to seat it Two other tyre varieties were trialled before a satisfactory bead was established. Even still, neither of us would trust the bloody thing. Customer was informed to tread carefully{very]!
Do you mean their new “hybrid hook” design? I was thinking of getting it for use with (TPU) tubes. I think it might provide enough hook to use with tubes above the tubeless pressure rating, while also being less prone to damage than a standard hook.
I’ve never considered the weakness of the hookless sidewall, I would imagine the lighter weight wheels like the NSW would not be as stiff and would allow outward flex under pressure causing a blow off 🤔 wow Hambini is the first I’ve seen to point this out. FYI the front wheel was a 353NSW with 25mm internal.
@@JayLato I find that hard to believe. What tire and what pressure? I’ve sold about 300 pairs of the 353, not a single issue. Not to mention the 454 and the firecrest line. I had one earlier today, sure enough guy installed tube type tires by mistake.
I've ridden road bikes about 25 years, 5 years hookless. I've had two blowoff on hooked rims (schwalbe tires Road Hutchinson mtb). No problems hookless. Both blown tire were very easy to mount. I have a feeling the hook does not change much the blowoff safety but easy to mount tire are dangerous. Vittoria are usually easy to mount.
I've been riding Vittoria exclusively since the 80's. Mostly Tubulars. More recently (2018) I started using there corsa control clinchers with Vittoria's pink latex tubes. Always 85 - 90 psi in a 25mm. I have never had a blowout or a flat. ( full disclosure: the roads where I live are mostly smooth and well maintained.)
It's not about whether the wheel is hooked or not, it's also in combination with a smaller tyre at lower pressure that makes hookless dangerous. The de Gendt incident was the team using 28mm Vittoria tyres with Zipp 25mm internal width hookless rims. The ISO states a minimum of 29mm tyres. When you unknowingly combine this with a lower tyre pressure (presumably unintentionally by the mechanic, maybe an inaccurate pump gauge?) or maybe slow leak, or maybe heat generated over time during the race, or a bump/pothole in the road... BOOM, tyre explodes.
Yes, the problem is the combination, a up to standard hookless + compatible tyre + correct pressure, it is as safe as you can get. But this is the hard part, manufacturers fuxkup + riders that does not have enough knowledge to know what tyre to put on, what preasure to use just have too much margin for errors. On the other hand, with hooked wheel, you can fuxkup a bit and you will still be fine.
I am riding giant hookless with their cadex tyres. As long as you stick to the allowable combination it’s a great system. Such a shame to see these self styled experts spreading fear to the sheep.
This was an incredibly simple to understand video about this whole topic. So good, I can see it being used in court and a jury having to watch the pen check intro. Excellent writing today, new pen was SOLID.
4:00 holy fuck those zipps have wrinkling ... 2k or something on those wheels? really glad l sold my 303 firecrests. they had fucked rear hub bearing ... a known issue with zipp and for 1.5k on wheels that is unacceptable. riding elite wheels currently
Silly prices for cheap fabricated junk wheelsets. That is a Zipp wheel in a nutshell. Not only is the fab of their rims mediocre at best, but their hubs are absolute Walmart level trash. Amazing that anyone would pay anything close to the silly nosebleed prices they ask for that junk. But the gullible and the posers will always be, well, gullible and posers. 😀
Zipp 530 wheelsets 20 years ago the alloy brake track debonded from the carbon v-section, zipp 188 rear hubs 10 years ago broke at the hub flanges where spokes mount, zipp firecrest rims went whiteish (faded) after time , zipp cognition clutch freewheel systems creak when dry, then there's this.
Zipp hookless have been around since 2013. If they’re so dangerous why isn’t there any lawsuits against Zipp? In the US if there was a real problem some bloodsucking lawyer would have had these eliminated 6 years ago
@jimsteinway695 An even better question. Why is a Zipp wheelset with such a cheaply and poorly Far East fabricated rim (as displayed in this vid) that also has known garbage quality hubs being solid for multiple thousands of dollars? Answer: lots of gullible and easily marketed to fools out there. 😀😀
correct me but if you hit something at high speed like going fast down hill the tyre will compress thus the pressure will increase and they say do not have a higher pressure than X. Hmmm. I don't think I will be buying hookless in the near future.
Yes, but the pros pump the tire to 1 psi before it blows of just standing still. Also their smaller tires, 28 mm and below, have much less air volume, so any compression from road interaction, raises the psi in the rest of the tire much higher, than say a 40 mm on a grave bike. It's all ridiculous, because pumping to for example 5 psi below treshold, instead of 1 psi below treshold, will decrease rolling resistance with close to noting, like below a watt. The pro peloton certainly aren't doing tubeless any favours, making it seem like a right hazard.
thanks, well explained! addition: friction is a function of the contact surface. if the tire does not fit well and is sitting too high on the hookless rim, the contact area is reduced. lower friction. hospital.
I run tubeless on my Roadbike/Gravel and Mtb. Since many Years, All of them Hookless. I ride 10k a year. I never had to stop with a flat since i switched to tubeless . The Milk always stop deflating the air. I use Conti gp5000 str 28 front and 30 rear on my 404 with 3.9bar . Gravelbike with 47mm Wtb, and Mtb with Specialized Fasttrack/Renegade. Its way more comfortable, and alot more grip in wet because of low pressure. No way i would switch back to tubes. My weight is just 67kg.
If there was a problem lawyers would have stopped this 8 years ago. These rims have been around since 2013. This just picked up steam because one guy had a blowout . I run Zipp 303s same thing no issues. Look for more copycat videos. The sky is falling!
Sorry, I have no desire to address a road problem that never existed by running tubeless and being forced to constantly refill my tires every few months with new sealant to address a road problem that never existed with hooked and tubes anyway. I’m funny that way. 😀😀
For years, this happening has been one of the reasons why professional cyclists were initially wary of the implementation of tubeless compared to the *_traditional tubular whose main advantage was that, in case of a puncture, it allowed to keep rolling and stop safely_* as it remained attached to the rim.
I don't have an engineering degree, but common sense tells me that introducing risks while getting little-to-no benefits seems unreasonable. Don't get me wrong, I think challenging a status quo is a good thing, but also I believe every cyclist has a vast interest in keeping tire on the wheel at all times.
@jimsteinway695 Bullshat. The vast majority of hookless are run on MTBs at very low PSIs. Road bikes running much higher PSIs is a completely different ballgame.
@@jimsteinway695 Nobody with any common sense runs 73 psi in MTB tyres! If you are happy with your set-up, great. There's no class action litigation, I imagine, because the average cyclist knows what works and what doesn't. Ignore industry marketing bs and avoiding putting one's self in harms way. For anyone else considering this for road use I see it as a form of natural selection.
Thank you for doing this video. Hookless rims remind my of press fit BBs 15 years ago: Feasible on paper. A disaster when different manufacturers get involved. While noisy BBs are simply annoying, hookless rims hurt people.
I ride Sun CR18 rims with Panaracer tubes and tires. I get around 4 flats per year....at 10 min per flat that is almost an hour. They are also cheap, light, bulletproof
Probably cycling industry should come up with specialist mounting paste for hookless rims so tires hold stronger on sidewalls? Meager $50 for 50ml bottle could drastically reduce risk of tire popping off rim, it's a win-win!
Given that hookless tyres are impossible to get off without first getting the beads into the centre of the track, then using tyre leaves and even then using considerable force, how exactly are underinflated hookless supposed to roll off?
I'm not a scientist. But I am a lifelong bicyclist. I've seen fads and bad ideas come and go. As we evolve in technology, dumber ideas seem to be forced on the unknowing consumer. I hope we are at the pinnacle of dumb ideas. Because these salesman who no longer offer options, are going to be the death of the bicycle industry.
Theres's another part to the drama that wasn't covered in this video but according to the etrto for the spec of those zipp wheels the minimum tire size should be 29mm whilst on zipp's website it says 28mm, which is what deGent was running I think..
A lot of people attribute the cost, ie is cheaper to make but they don't pass on the savings. From a technical perspective, they can make the system weight lighter. I don't think this problem would exist if the tyre and rim maker were the same. But, the wheel maker tyres are known to be shite eg cadex
@@Hambini the simplified manufacturing process and de-molding should lead to higher quality at lower cost with fewer voids and defects and less delamination. but that requires us to have confidence in the cycling industry's manufacturing consistency and QA, both of which appear to be lacking.
No different from the 1X scam SRAM has tried to pawn upon road and gravel riders because they could not design and fab a dependable properly operating front derailleur. Offer the customer one less chainring, one less derailleur, much bigger gear gaps, much greater chain angles, lower production costs only offering 1 derailleur, raise the overall groupset price and claim it’s better. LOL 😆
Can't believe this became a thing for road cycling. Nox composites stated years ago the importance of tire pressure and use of hooked/hookless rims. Been riding those as prescribed for years w/ no problems. Also on brand new hooked Alpinist rims and Terra rims. All hooked. All perfectly fine.
@Team.TThhghchfgggcgv It makes some sense for MTbs running much lower PSI’s. Makes zero sense on a road or even most gravel bikes and addresses an essentially nonexistent issue in those disciplines.
"On a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. "I was a recall coordinator. My job was to apply the formula. ... A new car built by my company leaves somewhere travelling at mph. The rear differential locks up. ... The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? ... Take the number of vehicles in the field, A. Multiply it by the probable rate of failure, B. Multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A x B x C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one." fight club
19:30 Just wanted to add that even though your cut Winspace wheels which are the hooked example in this video, doesnt mean all hooked rims got a hump (or two, cause each side), so technically this way of failure can still happen with hooked rims. Love the content, just adding info so people don't forget about differentiating and looking into stuff themselves!
Had my Zipp 303s with my Gravel bike for over 6months, no issues so far. Just changed tires over to Cinturato Gravel M 40mm. Others say a great tire for Zip 303s. Will let you know how the wheel and tires get on after my JOG ride.
Thousands of kilometers is done every single day on hookless wheels. Can someone please provide some links to all the accidents happening out there because of the wheels?
I went back to tubular on all my bikes last season and the ride quality is so much better. I went to the Alps on my Dura Ace 9100 C40’s and felt so safe and the cornering and braking were superb.
I've got an older set of the rimbrake lun wheels. They are by far the best wheels for tubeless. No spoke holes, tires hold air for weeks, even without sealant.
My zipps 303s work well for me. Just done a 2000km ultra race. Nothing wrong with the wheelset. Been using sealant and tube on this wheelset. Going down steep mountain, hit pothole and still rolling well.
Congrats. You paid $2K plus for a cheaply and poorly Far East fabbed rim (as proven in this vid) with known garbage hubs to boot. Pat yourself on the back. Well done. LOL 😀😀
What you said about high pressures is correct. On a smooth surface track pressures are at or near 200psi. But on the road the surface is not flat and incredibly irregular. Hence lower pressures are better on the road. Plus lower pressure help with comfort.
Dramatic improvements in comfort can also be gained by a decent set of knicks and cork bar tape. Without needing a bouncy rear end and pinch flats or damaged rims.
I’ve got a pair of Zipp 303s on my endurance bike with 32mm conti tires. I am not a racer and make sure to keep the psi at the appropriate level. Had no problems in 3 yrs, but do you think I need to find another wheel? How dangerous are these things in your judgment/how urgently do I need to replace if they are? Thanks for the video & the explanation. Cheers
Same here, I've got the 303S with big gravel tires. Every spontaneous hookless failure I've seen talked about on the internet involved someone running narrow road race tires. So I understand the paranoia but in the absence of compelling information to the contrary, I'm inclined to write this off as a road race problem. Maybe it's just post purchase rationalization though.
Same here if there was a problem lawyers in the US would have got these rims eliminated 9 years ago. One guy has a blowout and everyone is making a video. I AM an engineer I’ve had no problem with these rims or tires. This is all hogwash. The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!
They aren't dangerous. The pros ride on Zipps, and elite CRIT riders use Zipps. This guy doesn't account for all variables and he doesn't do the calculations properly. It's a clickbait video in disguise.
Hookless clincher rims were the standard in the ‘70’s, but as high-performance clincher tires arrived in the ‘80’s, hooked rims (and their ability to hold those tires at their recommended psi) became the norm. So, it made me scratch my head a few years ago when high-tech carbon rims started appearing with “hookless” being a selling point. A weird marriage of high-tech materials with a step back to an outdated design! Kind of like a modern sports car being marketed as having a “technologically advanced” carburetor!
Thanks for such detail information and efforts. I did run hookless from Giant, the slr and cadex. Personally I have seen about 6 cases where hookless blowoff from wheels, all of them are from Zipp. I can't help but thinking the internal width is one of the big problem, from Giant, the 1st hookless wheel they had is 22.3 internal width, all the way to their newest release the MAX 40 is still 22.3. Also Giant fully disclose how they test what are the tyres that fit into their wheel. There is quite a lot of "Hookless" compatible tyres that does not pass Giant's test, on the other hand, the other 2 big well known hookless manufacturers actually did not mention those are not "safe" to use. Hope you can get your hand on the slr or cadex wheel and see how much is the different between those and Zipp.
@@irfuel the concern is that zipp's list of compatible tires is actually wrong. ie some 28mm tires on 25mm internal rim width wheels *should* work but that depends on both being run at correct pressures ALL THE TIME and having absolutely no defects/warping in the rim and tire bead. that's a big risk to take.
@@irfuel I know, I didn't say they don't have it, it's just different and it's a little bit vague. Take Pzero as an example, almost none of them pass through Giant's test protocol. However those are extremely popular tyres, lots of people did put them on hookless wheel, so it makes me wonder what's the Zipp's testing protocol as we knew how Giant did the tests and the tyres did failed.
@@cwmoo How are you so sure it's wrong. Also the tire width specified by the manufacturer often is not the real width once inflated. I have 32mm tires here from Goodyear that once inflated only are 28mm wide.
I'd like to know, if tire bead strength decrease over time? Because I found the bead strength is ultimately THE thing that holds the trie from blowing off. I noticed that the bead becomes less and less tight after a few times of mounting my gp5000 to my zipp404. Does my mounting operation, i.e., using the tire lever to force the bead onto the rim, damage the bead strength?
I can remember when I first started mounting TUBULARS on rims, they tell me to stretch them a little, one end of the tub on the floor, put your foot on it and then pull upwards to slacken the fit a wee bit. This was because some brands were very tight to get on the rim. It still is the same today.... But hey ho better tight than too slack.(Use your imagination on that one I prefer Slack honestly 😂😂😂😂). But this never meant the tub would just POP off the rim unless some useless CNUT did'nt glue it on correctly...
@@RICHARD.WRIGHT1 If you know how to glue them, no popping off, no matching tables, no pressure worries, few or no snake bites, seldom or no rolling off when they puncture at speed, speedy to replace by the road, lightest possible rim...NO, we can´t have these, can we?? Rgr
Such nonsense… dudes all freaking out here are clueless. Should hookless rims be a problem, you would see frequent accidents and a class action lawsuit going on for some time right now. To think that Zipp’s engineers wouldn’t do their homework properly and put a failed product in the market, risking the business reputation… please, give me a break. Just follow the guidelines. If you’re too heavy and afraid of over pressure, just get a regular hooked rim and conventional tube tires. That’s it. What a clickbait.
I love Hambini but he's spewing some BS. I've had hookless rims on all three of my bikes, Mountain, gravel, and road. I follow the guidelines and have never had a problem. I have hookless rims on my motorcycle and car. No problem. According to Hambini I should be absolutely terrified at all times. It's clickbait bullshit. Hambini is better than this.
What I think he’s saying is that there’s a greater risk with hookless not that it WILL fail. I know a guy who smoked a pack a day and he’s alive and kicking in his 80s….
@@MokaBoucha Sure, but the big question is: by how much? If there's just a marginal difference in risk between hooked and hookless eg, than all those discussions are pointless, but we simply dont know (also Hambini doesnt apparently).
Hooked shills are the same as rim brake shills. the technology is better but refuse to accept. follow the manufacturers psi and approved tyre list and you wont have a problem.
I dont understand why the blame in on manufacturers, when people are not following the recommendations. Literally every brand has size charts, apprived tyres and psi guides. This particular failire was because the rim got smashed. Find the person who had a failure who did all these things. You won't
I think the geometrical element is understated here. If the tire moves out on one side of the wheel, on the opposite side it's moving in, assuming it's a circle. That's not constrained by friction but by geometry. But for this to work the tolerances need to be tight. I don't know what led to the failure in this instance, but the rate of these failures is low. For example, if there's 300 pro racers (2 races per day, 150 riders per race), 3.3 hours per day every day for a month, and there's one failure, that's a failure per 30 thousand hours, . The tolerance for failure is even lower, but such a low failure rate implies a combination of factors, for example including out-of-spec equipment, is likely involved. I did really like the discussion of stress balancing. At first glance the "hoop stress" and the axial stress are orthogonal so cannot balance, so it takes some thought to resolve that.
It baffles me why "experts" in the wheel industry can recommend hookless for road bikes considering the pressures invoved. Even a simpleton like me can recognise that if all that is stopping the tyre blow off is friction, then it fkin mental
Only plus in hookless rims is less complexity thus easier production and a tiny bit less material. Both are benefits for manufacturer not the user. Hookless rims is a solution no one asked nor needed… 😬
Exactly. It was an easy way to lower production costs (not MSRP) and increase ROI. It limits both you tire choices and PSI choices as a road or gravel rider and makes zero sense on road or 99% of all gravel bikes.
Seeing all the hookless hate has me worried. Last year I got a Giant TCR with tubeless wheels, SLR1 42 Disc wheels. I knew they are tubeless, didn't know they are hookless. The wheels are wrapped with Giant Gavia Course 1 tires at 28mm. I've been inflating them to 100 psi and riding for about 7 months now and have had zero issues. Only have 1,000 miles so far, I got a heart condition so I can't ride very fast or very far. Maybe I'm just built different, because I have had absolutely zero issues with the tubeless setup, and even after 7 months I haven't had to add sealant, the tires still hold pressure very well. I only inflate them 1x weekly.
I tried to run HEDs max pressure on my Jets (80psi iirc) and i never had so many pinch flats (tubes) in my life and even dinged a rim b/c of it. Back up to 95-100 f/r and it was same old same old mile after mile. -U10
I’ve got a set of these and had the unfortunate experience of the front tyre blowing off the rim at the top of a big climb apparently the shop sold me the wrong tyres ffs . Now I have no confidence in my zipp 303s wheel shame on them .
Good vid. You mention that the sealant acts as a lubricant. However, when I remove a tyre from my hookless rim, the sealant has actually glued the tyre to the rim, requiring some effort to release it. The adhesion may not be uniform, though.
Why does no one remember the problems with hookless rims when they were around years ago. Hooked rims were developed to address those problems. Its a backwards step for the sake of profit (because hookless rims are easier and quicker to make).
Johan's tire wisdom: No Schwalbe? No Panaracer, Maxxis or Specialized? I've been doing stupid dangerous things on bikes, going too fast for conditions and cornering irresponsibly for 40 years. I use fast training level tires and rims, no pricy weight weenie garbage or anything too weird or experimental, just quality bomb proof mid range stuff. I developed my tire and rim standards by trying to k!ll myself on a bike and so far, failing, but I especially failed sueycyd using tires and rims, which have been remarkably reliable in all that time (knock on aluminum) and all conditions. I run decent pressures but not high. I will NEVER bother running tubeless on front road wheels and probably not on mountain either. I would happily run a tubular tire and rim on the front instead of a tubeless setup. I use more pressure on the rear tire than front. I don't care about sticky, soft fast wearing race tires. Quality tires have great traction in all conditions and shockingly long life. Slicks are far tougher and longer wearing than tires with prominent tread designs, and are underrated on mountain bikes. When maneuvering I tend to do the mountain bike thing of sliding back on the saddle or even behind it to lighten the front wheel (and brake load). I bunny hop rough stuff and obstacles to protect the front. I use aluminum rim wheels with lots of spokes. I true wheels regularly on the bike by eye and feel using thumbnail. I will never run carbon rims at my age and don't like even the idea. I would never run undersized or loose fitting tires, especially on a road bike, and always use hook bead rims. I have damaged tires and cracked rims from running over pressure so I'm conscious of limits and silly brittle aluminum alloys, and how anodizing can makes aluminum brittle and cause braking surface wear if pads accumulate anodized wear products. If running high pressure I would never store a bike with high pressure in the tires. Inflate before riding. I basically inflate tires until I can't deflect it much using my hand and thumb. I have strong hands. If I can't roll the tire off the rim with my bare hands (really go at- put it to the test), then it's not coming off under use, or even abuse. Knock on aluminum, it's worked well all these years. my current road tire is a pricy (for me) specialized Roubaix 700x25/28 max pressure 95psi that the LBS talked me into. I must admit it's been fantastic. For me, ridiculously fast, at less than max pressure, very long life, great puncture and pinch flat resistance and don't pick up glass slivers. Neglected glass slivers in slicks have caused most of the small amount of tire damage I've dealt with. run with tubes. zero complaints or even maintenance. Basically- bomb proof. If wheels and tires are not bomb proof and don't feel bomb proof, you are just playing games with your money and your skeletal integrity. Stay away from cars for your health and sanity. Above all, Happy Trails!
Glad you covered the width. Have to admit I know its anecdotal, but running 28s on a Giant SLR1 which runs the 19.4 internal width on hookless. Havent had an issue such as this on mine, whereas the Zipps are 23 mm
I've been riding tubeless tires on Giant hookless rims for over 10 years. I've encountered 1 tire blow off during the time and it was most likely due to a combination of excessive tire pressure plus a damaged tire bead. The Continental GP5000 STR tubeless tires are very tight fitting so using tools can damage the tire bead. Am I afraid of the tubeless tire system? Not in the least. Not following manufacturer recommended pressures and installation instructions on any tires, car, truck, bicycle, tractor, etc., can increase the risk of some type of issue/failure. Following manufacturer recommendations are always a good thing. Read the material and warnings people.
If you have a severe crash due to a blow out attributed to "just a damaged tire bead" this isn't going to resurrect you. The question is whether or not hookless is less fail-proof.
@@williwacker2774 I'm uncertain of what is meant by "resurrect" in the context of your reply. Nonetheless, the original post never asks the question of whether or not hookless is less fail-proof. To re-phrase, the original post, it is mainly about "unexpected failures" and the associated suspicion/questions about the reliability and safety of the hookless rim design. Nothing in the physical world is completely fail-proof. The parameters by which a product may fail should be tested and then communicated to consumers. In my case, I feel the potential for failure is communicated in the product's instructions and warnings.
@@patrickcastellano740Resurrect as in bring back to life after a fatal accident. Less fail-proof as in less eligible for real life conditions. The acceptable operating parameter envelope is to small, there is too narrow of a safety margin. If somebody faces a blowout due to user error or due to unknowingly exceeding the limits how is this less bad than a failure happening at conditions within the envelope when there is a system which can avoid all of this the only downside of which is higher manufacturing cost?
@@williwacker2774 Ultimately, a cyclist needs to make choices and settle on a decision based upon their comfort with the information available. The parameters by which tubeless tires and hookless rims may operate safely (within reason), have been made available. No one is claiming that anyone is withholding technical information or even a layman's explanation. The ETRTO (European Tyre & Rim Technical Organisation) has published information regarding fitting and use. Tire manufacturers have also provided information on the use of their tires. Yes, hookless rims are less expensive to manufacture. The setup also provides advantages of weight savings and aerodynamics. Whether or not to ride tubeless tires with hookless rims becomes a decision only you should make. Let's not venture into the realm of conspiracies or scare tactics.
This is why I use TUBULARS and one flat in past 50,000 kms fast paced riding! Most times no sealant whatsoever I may add 50ml of a tubular is at 75%life…i used to use Veloflex but quality has degrade. SO CONTINENTAL FORCE COmp or 5000 and they retain grip all the way to 5C that all other brands start skidding at 10C, drains, rocks etc, never had a failure mode. Except a tiny flat 50,000 kms ago.
