Hello and welcome to my channel. Here you'll find my urban exploring videos, Travel vlogs and my Buxton Barrow Man series. Hope you enjoy watching and have a wonderful day :)
Reopening all the way to Buxton would bring massive benefits, people would come from far and wide , this area of Derbyshire i know very well, been visiting since 81 , this area is some of the prettiest in the UK, the line could be utilised all year round not only for the heritage side of things but also for regular BR service trains and freight from the various quarries in the area ,alleviating pressure on the nearby A6 road , it would make a great commuter line , this is the missing link that should be reinstated. The GCR are, as you know are currently building their missing link, and when completed their profile as a heritage railway will go stratospheric . It could also come in extremely useful as a diversionary route for the Hope Valley line in times of engineering works etc.
Running the railway side by side with the trail is a none-starter as a through route would need to be double tracked to make it as useful as possible, however, as the trail utilises an old heavily engineered railway line it offers little in the way of views for much of it's length as you can be in a cutting for long stretches, my proposal would be to develop a new dedicated Monsal Trail that would be far more scenic and have seperate paths for walkers and cyclists (walkers on the Monsal Trail will be able to tell you what a menace the cyclists have become since the trail was made cycle friendly with the opening up of the tunnels) which would wind it's way up the Wye valley on an alterate route away from both the A6 and the railway which may prove even more popular than the current trail.
Simples!! Get Siemens or other loco builder to provide on loan, a battery loco, and prove it's capable of running a through service to Buxton. Then just have a well publicised few days a month with steam traction ,or diesel. People then can avoid the tunnels on those days.The tunnels could be shared with walkers on battery services by just putting a 6 foot fence along the the centre line,the tunnels were double track after all. This then would become a ECO railway ,which Derbyshire council would jump at to prove their ECO credentials.
I have walked along the Monsal trail, and I don't think it can be converted back into a railway. However, I don't think there would be such a problem with converting it into a tramway, as it could still be used as a footpath. I would suggest you approach the National Tramways Museum at Crich and liaise with them. Obviously trams don''t produce any smoke or fumes that would make the tunnel unusable for walkers. Thanks for uploading.
With you 100% so only help I can give is an idea, get around the tunnel issue by stopping foot and cycle access and get people into a miniature copy of the Channel Trains, running on dedicated track next to heritage lines!
A properly restored electric powered main line is the only sustainable choice and would relieve the lines from Crewe to the Manchester area (West Coast main line and HS2 when reinstated).. The present (and future) heritage line users are recreation users who arrive chiefly by car.
Great video! Re sharing the tunnel - how about just getting the walkers and cyclists on trains for that? Presumably the Monsal Trail has peak times, when a train every twenty minutes might be required, but probably only a two car unit. A short platform would be needed each end - one might act as a 'station' for Haddon Hall.
As a child we used to walk our dog up through a small village behind the new town that we lived in, was being built. The whole vilage was PREFABS! My late father was in the REME so very knowledgable about engineering and most things. He told me that much of these prefab parts contained asbestos! At the time they never knew the dangers of this - it was just cheap and easily availabl. So roofs and some walls were made from this stuff - GOOD GRIEF. I never forgot these little houses. I was born in 1959 so these were still around but they are now long gone replaced by another grotty brick new town. A little sad.
key sections could run on narrow guage with super diddy chuffer trains - even interchanges to horse drawn coaches... ...another nice cheat is a wheeled toy train like the ones found on many seaside places....
Excellent video of the subject on the old railway line between matlock and buxton out there mate, I myself have had the absolute privilege in visiting peak rail - at matlock 'in-person' back in April of 2023, which was only last year, 18 months ago, I also hope peak rail potentially extends as far as rowsley itself one day, Although I also hope they'll reach as far as bakewell someday.... even if it takes decades in the making. Additionally, even if trains were to quite potentially return to where the line once roamed, between bakewell and buxton of course.... I bet it would be heritage steam & diesel traction of the preservation movement, let alone potentially be single track.... with either stretch of the cycle route - potentially re-routed away from either tunnel - for safety measures. In the meantime however.... only time will tell, for whom it's 10 out of 10 for this video of yours.
My great aunt had a prefab in Newport South Wales. It was far better than the place she was bombed out of. It had all mod cons. I think the council tried to replace them in the 1970s but people protested as they were much loved. Why can’t we have forward thinking like this to deal with our current housing crisis?
The walking trail can be moved where there isn’t enough clearance ie : tunnels . They could be put over the tunnel and join up somewhere on the other side. Have seen this done with no loss of the trail itself. Just need to think outside the box.
When I was 10 in 1964 i can remember visiting my aunt and uncle in Watford, Hertfordshire. The prefab had been a great improvement on their last home. I think thay lived in last ones standing. They were still very livable.
The prefab I was brought up in was cold we had a fire back boiler for hot water we had a cooker and a fridge but it was home for 7 of us we even had our own Anderson shelter they thought ww3 was coming, I was two when we moved in my sister was a baby and another three born after. I was their from 1956 until they decided to demolish them and built a new wimpey estate we moved into one of those
Let’s be honest! This isn’t going to happen, there are too many pieces in this jigsaw puzzle. First would be the opposition from environmentalists, Sustrans etc etc etc, the list goes on!
Great video. Being from the area (Darley Dale) it’s something I’ve pondered for many years. I feel the Monsal trail has become such a big tourist attraction that getting any sort of compromise from it is going to be a tough ask. Maybe scaling back the plans and aiming just to reach Bakewell may get more traction. It feels more achievable as the section from Bakewell station to Coombs road viaduct doesn’t really offer much to the Monsal trail. Yes there is still some major engineering works to be done getting from Rowsley south to Bakewell however, I think there is still many benefits within that section to make it worth while. It would surley bring a much needed boost to Peak Village, Chatsworth (via Rowsley), Haddon hall (build a station) and Bakewell during the summer months as well as taking more cars off the roads.
Also another potential improvement for Peak Rail would be to double track between Matlock and Matlock Bath with one side being for Peak Rail and the other to Network Rail. Matlock Bath is more of the tourist area rather than Matlock itself.
Beeching didn't recommend closing the line to Matlock and Derby, he said it should have been developed as a through freight route. It was closed by Transport Minister Barbara Castle. This was, as we know a bad move.
I came to the comments to state this! You can tell the Bakewell route wasn't a Beeching cut as it happened a couple of years after the later Beeching cuts. It was a ridiculous cut in any case, it took a very useful through route and turned it into 2 less useful branch lines, it's not a stretch of the imagination to say that it may have been politically motivated as the closed section is entirely within the West Derbyshire / Derbyshire Dales constituency which was a safe Tory seat for decades (they elected a Labour MP in 2024 for the first time since 1945) and Barbara Castle was a Labour Minister For Transport!
I used to go camping at Whatstandwell in the 60s and saw quite a frequent service of trains passing through. The loss of through connectivity was ridiculous. Barbara Castle did a lot of damage to the railways, closing lines that were strategically important and that would today be thriving. She closed the King's Lynn to Hunstanton line which was, again not on the Beeching list for closure, yet the traffic jams on the roads each summer speak for themselves. That particular line, unfortunately, is irrecoverable, despite the over-optimistic rants from some locals. I have often wondered if Castle's line closures were political, based on the voting characteristics in the respective areas. I also suspect that there were senior personnel in the old British Railways who were complicit in closing as much as possible, before the sectorisation of British Rail put managers in place who had a passion to see their industry thrive.
Hi Leo, opened a really interesting debate here, lots of different opinions of which everyone has a perfect right, but it does show how difficult it would be to reopen and not just because of the engineering issues.
I remember the adverts in the railway magazine in the mid 70s onwards to re-open this line this is brilliant in theory but the main problem is ££££££££££££££££
My parents moved from a room in my grandfather's house to a new prefab estate in West Pilton, Edinburgh in 1947. I had just turned two. That winter was a really cold one, and the snow was halfway up the back door, or so my dad said! I do remember the roads were little more than tracks initially, and it was fascinating for a toddler to watch them being finished over the next couple of years. Steam rollers and the smell of tar. Yes, they were cold, but each house had electricity, gas, hot water and a fireplace, plus a garden and an Anderson hut which could be used to keep a lawnmower. Our's had a coal bunker as well. The logistics of building so many in such a short time with all these utilities must have been daunting and I don't think we could do it today.
In 1981 as an undergraduate I had a work placement with the Peak Parks and worked on researching the interpretation for the then under development Monsal Trail. There was reams of paperwork from almost before Beeching closed the line about its future, including proposals for hybrid rail and foot / bike / horse path, generally the opposition to a multi use route came from organisations such as the bike lobby who wanted exclusive use for their own interests. The heritage railway sector seemed to be willing to share the route for the greater benefits. Then of course there were the developers who were allowed to encroach on the line, and the Highways Authority who removed various bridges. The big win that allowed the Monsal trail to happen was when the BR property board paid a substantial sum for the route to be taken off their hands rather than demanding it was bought from them which had been one of the barriers to original heritage rail plans. Who knows, the WHR was written off as a pipe dream for years, so perhaps there’s a chance for this line too, although without the access to EU funding and the increasing struggle for volunteers, plus the eco drive to outlaw coal, I’m not sure about a steam heritage line being feasible
@@Leock Cheers Leo, now I feel even older!🤠🤠. I guess the paperwork still exists in some form at Aldern House, but for years there were proposals and counter proposals, studies and statistics batted around. If I remember correctly everything from heritage steam to a guided bus route, to an exclusive cycle path was considered at some point. I even got to drive through the tunnels in a Rangers Land Rover, which meant unlocking huge metal doors as it was some years after the trail was originally opened before the tunnels were made safe and lit and opened for public access.
Re. the comments about the amount of money spent in the Peak District by walkers and cyclists. Um - forgetting about the amount of money spent by people who travel on heritage railways, are we? And not just direct spend on the railways, but in hotels and guesthouses, shops, cafes and other tourist attractions? A classic example is the Swanage Railway, in Dorset. The local chamber of commerce can show you the audited accounts of members businesses in Swanage, showing the dramatic and sustained rise in their turnover from the time the Railway re-opened. There is also ample evidence from people living in Corfe as to the massive reduction in traffic jams in Corfe, dating from when the Swanage Railway opened their massive car park at Norden Station, just north of Corfe, with regular 'park and ride' services down to Swanage. Nor, do I take it, you've seen the videos and photos on the internet this summer, showing narrow roads in the Peak District totally grid-locked by cars . . . with, no doubt, many of them carrying walkers and cyclists to their starting points . . .
They should build these again for peneioners theres a shorted of 1 bedrooms who needs a 2 when u on ur own..sounds good to me.but were i live the putting bathrooms in use oldies carnt get in and out of baths so do a wetroom the 1bedrooms what they built near me all got bathrooms with baths in them houseing say they put a wetrroom in why not when they built em 6,ooo a time to council of course but common sence says it all ...😊😊😊😊
I think prefabs and static caravans should be used to alleviate the current housing problem. If a prefabs can be made cheaply and well insulated, it would be ideal for single people, childless couples, and pensioners. The same with static caravans for single people and small families. A small garden as well is all that's needed. With hundreds of thousands of homes needed it would relieve the property market enormously, allowing more time for houses to be built. The government won't do it though because a) a lot of politicians/government officials have investments in rental properties and a lot of the wealthy also invest heavily in rental properties. God forbid people actual own a home and the wealthy can't take advantage!
As a lifelong rail enthusiast (who started his working life "on the railway"), cyclist and walker living in nearby Nottighamshire, the Monsal Trail is a tough one: * Despite the track bed being wide enough for two tracks, sharing it between rail traffic, cyclists and walkers would be a health and safety nightmare. That's not going to happen. * Hikers and bikers may not contribute directly to finance of the Monsal Trail but they do account for significant tourist footfall in the area which would probably not be matched by the number of rail enthusiasts which replaced them. * The number of tunnels and rugged geography would make this an expensive route to maintain for rail traffic - something more demanding for the existing civil engineering than walkers and cyclists. As it stands, the Monsal Trail is a great recreational asset to the Peak District. The gentle gradients make it ideal for family members of all ages on foot or by bike. I can only see this as a trail or a railway, both will not work side-by-side. I would prefer to see it left "as is" although I would also ride the train if it became another heritage railway.
Another idea someone has suggested on here is using the Ashbourne line which again is a trail now but has far less visitors than the Monsal, it could be an interesting alternative although I’m unsure how much more work it would involve.
I’ve only cycled the route once, even through it was a mid week day I was amazed at how many people were using it. If it was halved in width it would be pretty tricky to cycle. Although it would obviously fantastic to have an additional train line, given the state of public finances, I think your prediction of another 20 years of discussions is most likely
It would definitely have to be widened where possible and where there are tunnels routes around the hill the tunnel goes through for walkers/cyclists would need to be constructed (when I was last there I think this is possible, though probably costly). I don't really see this as happening, it is such a well visited and well known trail. If Derby County Council did want to monetize the current trail to raise money they could I'm sure do that, but it might also deter people visiting the area to go elsewhere where they can walk for free (with just a car parking fee) so I just can't see this happening, people come and then spend their money on local shops, pubs, hotels, and other businesses, which I'm sure is necessary for these businesses to function.
I have used the cycle trail on several occasions. But can’t claim to be a regular user. But when I do my family and I have used and payed for the local facilities. While steam trains are a nice,nostalgic idea, I can’t justify burning coal for fun. Fitting trains next to people isn’t going to work well either. With current technology, and the fact that you want to use Victorian tech, I don’t think it will happen.
As much as I understand the burning coal for fun phrase, the few steam engines that operate in the U.K. run under harsh regulations and comparatively to diesels pollute little, it’s just the extra water requirements that make steam more awkward.
That floor plan is pretty well descriptive of the one I lived in, in North Manchester, from 1956 to 1964, but we only had a coal fire, no central heating. The roof was made of corrugated cement, probably asbestos reinforced in many cases. As recently as 1968, the UK managed to build over 400,000 homes in one year, but current levels of building are barely half that level. If you go back to the 2010s, the average was even lower, below 150,000 properties a year.
I was born in one of these in Hampshire, going back many years later with my Dad all we could find in what is now a beauty spot, were the remains of a few roads being taken back by nature.
I live in a pre/during war pre-fab, that went up in 1939. They have been fully modernised over the years, were reskinned and pebbledashed about ten years ago under the guise of modernisation, but i found out that the scrap value of the metal used in the outer walls was worth 5x what it cost to reskin them, so the council had the whiff of free money in its nostrils. I'm very happy with my little 3 bedroom bungalow, that I'm in the process of buying for £32k at a big discount (it has a market value of around £170k) These prefabs are still standing solid. Even after more than 80 years.
I lived with my parents in a prefab in North Manchester, from 1956 to 1964. Previously for the first three years of my life, I lived in a 2 up two down old terraced house in North Manchester, together with my dad's mother, my mother and my dad. After my grandmother died in 1956, we then went to live a council prefab. We moved out in 1964, the prefabs were then demolished, we went to then live in a multi storey block of flats. Nearby to those flats, some of the prefabs were still in use as dwellings well into the early 1970s, almost a decade after our own prefab and the neighbouring ones had been flattened.
Leo, I suspect it may prove more cost effective to use the Ashbourne route to Derby to achieve the transport infrastructure objectives of this idea. With only one tunnel in contention on that route, dual use would be a lot more practical and much cheaper.
I only wish this were possible the Ashourne to Buxton and the Dove Valley line was beautiful. The problem with that is the infrastructure that has been destroyed and the track bed which has been built over since closure, the cost of reinstating and creating new track would be massive if not impossible.
Excellent video and one which highlights the dilemma. A railway or a walking and cycling path. (I don't like the Americanism 'trail!' Well, it was built as a railway and should be returned to a railway if at all possible. I think future generations would see this as the correct decision. A fine competitor for England's most scenic railway.
My Dad was a prison officer on the Isle of Sheppey, we lived in a prefab when I was a kid in the 60’s. Floors were all Lino, single glazed steel framed windows, no central heating, just an open fire in the living room. Clearly remember the winter of 62/63 and ice on the windows inside. Didn’t seem particularly harsh or difficult at the time because it was the same for everyone. What I do remember is it was a lot safer then, a lot of community spirit and people looked out for each other. Good video, brought back a lot of happy memories from my childhood 👍
I remember walking the route before they restored the tunnels on the trail. There are walking routes around them. If the tunnels need to close. It wouldn't be great for bikes, but is a work around.
I did the same thing, trouble is its a victim of its own success, like a lot of people they come out want to park and walk along the flat for not very far then sod off.
