Probably a financial decision. It wasn't making them money. That being said. It's a made up universe with aliens, monsters and space wizards. If you have a problem with it having a diverse cast in addition to that then you are a complete loser and moron and need to leave your moms basement more often.
Good points! And thank you for always having a positive view of things, too much hate out there as it is in the fandom. While I did not enjoy the Acolyte myself, it had nothing to do with whatever hype was around it among the haters. Rather the story and characters failed on several levels, to me that is. As a queer person myself, I was looking forward to this show, alas, it had none of the ingredients I expected it to have. But, I would have loved to have seen the continuation of the story just the same as the premise was good, the force witches, the younger Jedi, Sol, they were all interesting alas the show did not give them time to grow, it felt, rushed somehow, the whole story. But that’s just me. Nothing to do with any other thing, than the story and character failing for me, personally. Guess it’s all up to fan fiction now to wrap this story up now!?
Jennifer, as a brown Filipino American girl, you echo my own childhood experience growing up in the 80’s, with my blond Barbie dolls. I felt invisible, other. It saddens me that there are loud, mobilized, racist voices in a community that I love, the Star Wars fan base. The implications of the non-renewal of the Acolyte does feel very much like 1 step forward, 3 steps back on social issues. I feel a pang of pain for Manny Jacinto, Lee Jung-jae, Amandala Stenberg and the whole cast. I hope they still feel pride in their performances.
What bugs me a lot about the nostalgia aspect of what studios will green light is that a lot of what is considered culturally relevant and beloved only got that way because they had, in the example of tv, these massive 22 episode seasons and ran for 5+ seasons. The early seasons of TNG were pretty hit or miss, and Voyager, DS9, Buffy, Stargate etc were all allowed to find their feet, explore the characters, take chances and run experiments, as well as having satisfying arcs and a feeling of progression. In a lot ways I love a lot of the shows coming out, but I'll be curious how we feel about this period when we look back in 10, 20 years, because I just don't feel like I really know any of these characters particularly well and then they're gone, half finished, and half explored.
The Rogue One experience to me was a singular experience, because I (coincidentally) watched in the same session as The Jedi Coincil in Rio, so A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE IN COSPLAY! lots of Hans and Leias, Stormtroopers, Vaders, Reys, it was extraordinary and something I had never experienced before and probably will never again... 😄🤍🖤🤍🖤🤍
"Did the prequels change my perception of the original trilogy?" To be honest, in my head canon, the prequels don't exist. (Sorry guys, and as I always say: I respect you. I just am in a different position.) Yes, the films do exist, yes, I do watch all this. But in my head canon, the Jedi don't use those robes in the past. They look more like knights. (Maybe they wear armour.) Et caetera.
I guess greedy Disney was not interested in bringing new fans who never cared about star wars or lapsed causal fans like me who are tired of the fan-service nostalgia skywalkers and related character surface level Filoni and co are doing. In a way, I guess baby Yoda is prefect representation of crybabies fanboys/girls who want to fest on nostalgia, fan-service and empty characters that just look cool and can't handle anything new or nuanced. If that type of fans are the ones Disney wants to serve, great enjoy it.
Jenn, your "final argument" was so raw and it made me cry. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your feelings. Im a white dude so I don't have those experiences, but I am so thankful for people that share their feelings like you have for helping to open my eyes to and change the way I think about the world around me. Thank you, thank you!
I totally love and agree with what Jennifer said at the end of the show about representation for everyone in Star Wars. I really love The Acolyte show, and I'm very sad to see it come to an end. I hope there will be future storytelling that will pick up the cliffhanger threads left by the show.
If the Sith just used their own fear, anger and hate, that would be one thing. Their problem is that they use the fear, anger and hate of others and increase it for their own ends.
What if the stranger from the acolyte, since admitting to be very old, has something to do with Darth Plagueis and his ability to cheat death? Can we see the stranger, as a reborn Plagueis, the new enemy of Ray in the new Star Wars films? Now that palpatine is dead, Plagueis returns? Have been waiting all this time for palpatine to die. I think that would be a very compelling story, although I do fear if others may not LOL
The word cancelled didn't stand out to me, I think because I'm still used to the old days where all the networks would announce their fall schedules during the same week and you'd find out if the shows you liked were cancelled or renewed all at once. But as I'm typing this I'm getting it more that with streaming the assumption is kind of that any season of a show is a one-off thing and occasionally we get more whereas with broadcast the assumption was that any show that made it to the end of the season was going to come back unless it got cancelled so that's no longer the appropriate term for choosing not to make more beyond whatever had been ordered that far.
This was a great episode to listening and has helped me processes some of the feelings that the Acolyte news has caused. While I had my issues with some of the pacing and character motivations in The Acolyte I was really hoping the story would continue especially after some of the teases we got at the end. If given another season the show could have improved on some of the first seasons issues and come out greater by the end rhe show had potential. My biggest disappointment is that Disney and Luca’s film will take the wrong lessons from this show. Thank you ForceCenter for this very insightful and therapeutic episode!
I love this podcast. It's nice to see people discussing things in a diplomatic way and personal way without having to tell and argue. I can see that all three have different tastes and views but at the end they can all enjoy star wars in their way and discuss it. That's intelectual. I like this show a lot and I was hoping to see a season two. I would prefer a thousand times this show over mando. Mando feels too safe. In all ways. This was fresh and new. Challenging. It opened a lot of discussion. I wanted to see so much more of Qimir. He is one of the best villains in starwafs since Vader. And I like how they portrayed the Jedi. It was very close to real life spiritual leaders. And I liked that the sith weren't just this crazy evil guys. Qimir had a backstory and reason. In history a lot of new religions have formed out of an old one cus they disagree in ideas. Oh well rip acolyte...
He is such a mild manored man. Playing the evil wizard ruler of the galaxy. His other acting credits on film are rare but there some gem performances on british TV. I remember an 80s episode of Inspector Morse. He played the bad guy in that.
He also delivered a moving performance of Sir Edward Grey in a not since repeated BBC drama about the lead up to the First World War. A lot of gravitas behind his performance. One of those actors who really gets to know their character to deliver their performance.
SW fan since 77. I'm in my fifties. I have seen fandom shift in many places, politically, socially and entertainment based as well. Small voices with big megaphones lately. There were plenty y of flaws but they are show flaws, not life flaws. People should grow up but we know, they don't have to unfortunately (I'm a parent of a new trans adult child recently, also a big DEI advocate at work but I'm a regular guy with regular thoughts) Totally agree with all you said. I think if movies are where they are going, and I like that, it should be television movies for the streaming shows and movie movies for the announcements made. Make an Acolyte sequel movie and make a Solo sequel movie on Disney plus. Close out the storylines. Make landos movie on Disney plus. Obi wan/Vader movie too. Close out the loose threads. That's four films right there for Disney plus. The rest in the big screen You're welcome 😂. Been a listener of you since Jedi council! -Barsnobs Mike DeMarino . Be well!
Thank you for recognizing that many of us lost a lot after waiting for the representation I. Star Wars. Acolyte did it the best. And the haters - I wish someone would explain to them Star Wars was always a woke story it just took the movie / tv industry to catch up and represent it that way.
I think we also have to give credit to Robot Chicken. I'd love to hear McDiarmid deliver earnestly "So I threw the senate at him... the whole senate!" in a recreation of that scene.
Watch " A Conversation with Marcia Lucas from True West Film Center" most of what's in this video is from there, but more diluted. for example it's much more understandable how the change to the Obiwan vs Darthvader fight came to be.
Thank you FC. I was not a huge fan of The Acolyte (mainly how the story was executed at times), but I saw potential in it, because it was set during the High Republic and I did care for the characters and their story. I was hoping for a season 2. The past 2 days have been madness on social media and I have been trying to stay away as far as possible. It saddens me to see fans rejoycing in this type of news. Your video helped me to process the news ad see some clarity. I am still hoping Lucasfilm won't abandon the High Republic era and that we will see some of the characters in other series or films.
And yes, Ken, I am so ready for joy to return to Star Wars! Considering the Disney+ series overall, I think the darker themes of Andor and Obi-Wan Kenobi have been balanced by lighter moments in Mando/Boba Fett. But The Acolyte was too much for me… it was hard to watch good people make terrible decisions, and even harder to listen to the bad faith discourse about it. I hope Skeleton Crew can demonstrate how we all - even kids - are capable of effecting change, and that it doesn’t use the trope of finding some previously hidden magical talent. Many young people just aspire to lead a normal life, and will never be rockstars or prodigies.
I am still catching up with the news, but I am of the same mind as Jennifer (yay, we’re back in sync!); I think Jod Na Nawood is an alias. Didn’t Jude Law say in an interview that it was *one* of his names? Perhaps he is a con artist like Haja, not even force sensitive; if he is a former Jedi, maybe he was something like the Shadows in Legends (and fanon). I’m excited to learn more about him, as well as the pirates he could be working with. I still have my fingers crossed for a Hondo sighting!
Thsnks for this episode. Its been a couple of tough days as a star wars fan, flash backs of last jedi, been feeling quite down about the whole situation and its nice to know and feel supported by you, always. I agree with everything you said. It’s a shame but what can we do. Somehow these people need to stopped, celebrating as a win? Thats shameful. Anyway, thanks for all the years since Jedi council on collider and the continued✌🏼
Because of streaming, Disney knows who bail on shows, re-watches, picks up later, etc…they know at an intimate level how their customers are interacting with their content. That intel informs their decisions. Negative online discussions is something they are aware of but it’s nothing compared to the viewership analytics…it’s really that straightforward.
I feel like there is one worthy point of comparison. The rug pull that Ken describes is pretty much how EU fans felt in the day.... Now granted there was *far more* than a seasons worth of content in the EU. But that feeling of loss and pain is definitely familiar to some star wars fans. Same feeling when other turn around and immediately talk about how shitty the EU is. I just hope the acolyte fans don't become as jaded and bitter as some EU fans did/are.
Thank you for voicing why I'm so upset about this. It doesn't make it ok, but it helps to hear reasonable folks articulate the complexities of this cancelation and why it's so troubling.
I want to echo what others are saying here, but thank you, ForceCenter. I loved listening to your reviews and reflections on each episode. I loved The Acolyte and I'm really disappointed and angry that it wasn't renewed for a second season. As a person of color and longtime Star Wars fan (and prequelist), I really appreciate Jennifer's perspectives about the show. Also, I'm still upset about Willow not having a season 2 and being removed. Can't help but notice that both of these shows focused on women relationships, had queer representation, featured people of color in leading roles, and subverted expectations in a meaningful and positive way.
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion as usual, ForceCenter. This was a tough loss, and it helps to hear you all process it from so many angles. I was particularly moved by Jennifer’s perspective on growing up, feeling othered and unrepresented, and share both her concerns and hopes for the future. Wishing the best going forward. For light and life!
Today, I raed that Disney is removing all the Acolyte action figures from the store shelves. There are also rumors that they may remove the series from Disney+ similar to what they did with Willow. It would be a tragedy if that happens.
For me, it was the obvious attempt to attract the “Yasss Queen” and Twitter stan audience that turned me off. My 52 year old father who grew up with Alien, E.T, Close Encounters and Star Wars (like many others) can’t relate to the audience this is meant for: 21-28 year old women that love a modern pop song, love watching a guy get undressed and walk slowly out of the water with a full 8-pack and love to hear that it’s the “gayest Star Wars ever”. And thus, it’s not a show that everyone can enjoy (not that every show should be catered to everyone) I don’t have any problem with targeting a specific audience for your show but then I’d say don’t be shocked when your ratings aren’t strong. If the audience was there for this, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
But Star Wars is about generational change. Literally how this entire thing started. An old warrior says this isn't my fight and the sword is passed to those coming up behind him. And we wouldn't be having this conversation if more people understood that. I'm 48. And one of the most important personal evolutions I went through was realizing that not every story needs to be for you. Like your father, I grew up on films and shows that spoke directly to me; and us as a generation. Now it's time for others to hear their stories. Don't fight change, find your place in change. I love that this show spoke to so many people. I celebrate that. Mourn its loss because of that. And this show -- or any Star Wars show -- is never for one specific audience. Never. Absolutely never. If you can't find your own truth reflected in the rather simple and direct universal themes presented in this show, then how are you watching these things? What are you looking for in your favorite art? You're missing out on so much! So much good stuff. And why -- because a guy took his shirt off? There are many reasons this show did not make it to season two. Some are on-screen reasons for sure, but mostly it was due to a drastically and rapidly changing business model -- despite many in this comment section not wanting to acknowledge how much that was a factor. Not because anyone there said, "Ok, hear me out, let's go for the Yasss Queen audience." And, come on, listen to a modern pop song. I'll make a playlist.
@@KenNapzok Thank you for replying respectfully, Ken. Even when I came into the comment section heated haha. I know deep down that this feeling stems from me being frustrated that Star Wars recently hasn't felt like what I grew up with. (Was born in the year 2000 and loved the prequel/original trilogy era) And maybe, that's something I have to adjust to. I didn't hate this show at all, my frustration was in the feeling of indifference that I had which I've never felt with Star Wars. I do have to accept that not everything will tonally be what I'm looking for and I would, of course, love more people to get into Star Wars (it was pretty much my entire childhood). Didn't mean any disrespect to you guys at all, you certainly don't do anything to deserve it. Cheers :)
I don’t think I can choose between R2-D2 and C-3PO because, as you said, they are inseparable. I’m getting tattoos of them both; Artoo to represent me, and Threepio for my recently departed dad, who took me to see Star Wars when it came out in 1977.
I'm not sad it's not coming back. I really hate it for the fans of the show though. Just because I didn't connect to something doesn't mean I should want others to be deprived of it.
I didn't like it I wanted to but didn't I go into every star wars project with excitement and wanting to enjoy it I'm sad that we might not ever see the stranger or Darth plaguius again tho That's what I wanted I couldn't care less about the casting decisions etc and avoid toxicity on all sides The sad thing for me is I simply didn't like it and now may miss out on the origin of plaguius
I'm so sick and tired of people like Jennifer Landa thinking the world owes you/them something. I grew up as a minority. My father is from Puerto Rico my mom is from Ecuador. I look white. Plenty of times I can remember growing up and people thinking I'm white and saying negative things about Hispanic people and vice versa. Plenty of times I've been around a group of Hispanics where they would say negative things about Whites. That's human nature. Racism exists from all angles. I'm so sick of white people being made to feel guilty about all things white. In terms of entertainment. There should be no laws or any rules forcing representation. Let the people who create these shows or whatever, present the material the way they please. If they want to put all whites, so be it. If they want all green so be it. For you to sit there and complain about representation is so selfish. You mean to tell me you felt some kind of way watching the original trilogy, and that it made you feel less important somehow? The OT had princess Leia. She had brown hair. She could have been a "brown" person for all you knew back then. All your dolls had blonde hair. News flash. They made dolls of all colors way back then too. Could it be possible that you chose the doll with blonde hair? I've never watched anything and thought to myself that there needs to be more of me in the material. I've never felt less about myself because the people on screen don't look like me. This weak minded shit needs to stop. Get your head out of your own ass. I hate to break it to you. The star wars you grew up loving sprang from the mind of a white man. Deal with it. The acolyte got canned because the show sucked balls. Plain and simple. It didn't get cancelled because the cast was diverse. It got canned because it had no edge and no weight to it whatsoever. For all its "diversity" the show was incredibly bland and oh so forgettable. People like you need to grow a backbone and stop dictating to the rest of us your twisted world view. Let these story tellers tell the stories the way they want. Leave all identity politics and this woke crap for other venues. Keep it out of entertainment.
Why the deal with it comment about the Star Wars creator being white? If you know about Ken, Jen, and Joseph, you'll know they absolutely love George Lucas. I'm pretty sure they know what he looks like. Also, Lucas once said that Hispanic and African-American storytellers are underrepresented in the entertainment industry. With that in mind, please do elaborate your point about keeping it out of entertainment.
@@dfl7578Star Wars happened organically. Once you start considering representation and allowing that diversity push ideology to steer projects in a particular direction, you suck all the life out of the end result and it becomes too obvious to people watching that they are being imposed upon. Which results in the kind of star wars we have been getting for the most part since Disney took over. Not to mention the fact that diversity was never a problem in star wars. It's always been diverse. So it's insulting when people act like star wars needs to be fixed or entertainment in general needs to be fixed. Let art and creativity happen naturally. As far as minority storytellers. No one's stopping them from creating and getting their ideas out there. But making something diverse doesn't make it good. Andor was diverse but phenomenal. Acolyte was diverse but it wasn't executed with the same precision.
@@n.blacke1948 How does one differentiate between a project steered by what you call "diversity push ideology" and one that just happens to be diverse? I, like you, didn't like the show very much, but that's still subjective and an opinion. There are people who did regardless of whether diversity was pushed or organic, and that's just as valid. You say it can suck the life out of the end result, yet Andor, despite being diverse, was phenomenal, which is still an opinion, by the way. There are people who did not like Andor. Either diversity is related to quality or it isn't. Which is it?
@@dfl7578 diversity isn't related to quality. Andor is a well crafted story that was diverse. That had more to do with the writers being good at what they do. Force Awakens on the other hand was diverse but not well crafted. For example, the Finn character was an obvious diversity casting that fell flat. Not because the actor wasn't good, but because they thought they were being clever where they were actually doing the story a disservice. It made no sense to cast Boyega in a somewhat comedic role where a defecting stormtrooper should have been a more serious character. If they thought it through more, they would have realized that he would be far more effective had he been cast in the role of Poe Dameron. Isaac would have been more effective in the Finn role playing it more serious. But they were foolish in thinking that they were being edgy and smart by making a black stormtrooper, what they actually did was suck all the life out of the movie before it got started. That's a prime example of a diversity casting that, while it may have been done with good intentions, actually came across too obvious and heavy handed. I don't have an issue with diversity as long as it's skillfully done. I do have an issue though that there's this idea that it has to be done to correct some societal wrong. I have an issue with people like Jennifer Landa putting out this idea that they've been shortchanged and that they are owed payback. Diversity coming from someone like her is more of a revenge play. Alot of these social justice people want to force feed their ways upon everyone else. That's fucked up.
@@n.blacke1948 Wanting toys and characters to look like you, inclusivity, and to be heard and recognized are about revenge? You know, not everything has some insidious motive behind it. Maybe some people just want more representation in our culture, simple as that. Of all the things that could be imposed or force-fed upon someone, that's not even on my list. It represents no loss or personal expense to me, but it does make someone else happy. And though the sequel trilogy as a whole didn't end up being what I was hoping for at all, I can't think of too many things I was more excited for than The Force Awakens. The movie having the life sucked out of it before it started may have been your experience, but it wasn't mine or many other people's. The last thing I was thinking about was John Boyega's physical appearance.
