What can i expect to make power wise on a bone stock 351, im putting one in my wifes truck now it was pulled from a 95 efi truck and all im doing is 4 barrel intake 600cfm carb and new distributor never been opened
350 lb-ft torque and 250 hp. If you search Richard Holdener videos he has dyno'd a stock EFI 351W, changing it to carb, and that's about what the numbers are.
Why do the graph lines look so jagged and not a smooth curve? Most dyno pulls I have seen that are like that have valve spring pressure issues or something else going on.
I going to say it is due to an old dyno and/or data acquisition system, combined with what looked like uneven load control problems on the dyno. The dyno got the job done but may need some servicing IMO. Also, based on the plots the dyno was producing (only 1 Hz data rate) a higher sample rate and some filtering would help to smooth out the curves. I think if it was a valve control problem power would have taken a dive at higher RPM.
Be happy to provide some pointers but it would depend on what your goals are. Are you going for a stock rebuild or do you have specific a horsepower number in mind? Might want to seek out a local automotive machine shop that could provide some guidance depending on how much you are looking to spend. You might be needing some block and crank cleanup at a minimum.
@@sabrybelong165 The dyno had it's own coil that was providing the spark. The numbers were up about 20 HP average from 4000 on up with the Edelbrock carb
Most of it was same as for a stock rebuild except the extra work on the cylinder heads, and some of the parts that I used such as forged pistons, aftermarket connecting rods, and solid roller cam, which all were used to make more power.
Got a brand new sbf 427, man o war block, tfs 240 cc heads, and bought a demon 950, bout 1300$, got it to run ok but was still fat at idle. Ordered me a atm 850 and she’s crisp now! It’s based on a Holley. I got a demon 950 for sale for a screaming deal! Lol
The engine was leveling off around 6200 rpm with the Demon carb so I didn't take it any higher. I only brought the Edelbrock to the dyno as backup but once I swapped it on and saw it was performing better at all rpm (up about 20 HP avg throughout the range) I didn't see a point in switching back to the Demon. I kept increasing rpm with the Edelbrock until it stopped making power.
I saw that! Bias test. There is no data to make a comparison between carbs. Demon carbs are not very well built or designed. So the edlebrock carb basically had no challenge
had one of these Windsors in my 68 Mustang motor came out of a 69 Cougar back in the day 351 Windsor 4 barrel intakes were hard to find so I bought an Holley for 150 bucks ran a 650 holly carb header did a little headwork auto with a shift kit 391 gears ended up putting hood pins with padlocks as everyone would pop the hood to see what blew their doors off the sound of these Windsors is so distinct as they will rev to that 7000 rpm with a little rod work and balancing best hp motor built until the coyotes
Yeah, people are still making power after all these years with small block Fords. Not a lot has changed except for better parts and parts selection. Coyote is awesome too.
I am thinking about going solid roller in the 363 I am having built this winter. When you check valve lash is there much change? Very nice engjne. Thank you
I haven't put the engine in the car yet so can't really say. I pulled the old motor out and took pretty much everything off the front of the car to do some steering and suspension upgrades and frame rail repair which I'm still working on.. I saw a little bit more lash after the dyno runs but think that was from springs taking a seat/breaking in. Thanks for watching.
If you want moore torque, you should close up the Lsa to maybe 108 0r 9 ,go by David Visards 128 formula for low comp . Enigines, as you increse comp. He said to widen the Lsa, but for your comp, ratio 111 is to wide and creates more overlap that bleeds off comp. , therefore it hurts torque. Hope this helps.
Yes, I'm aware of the David Vizard formula. There are tradeoffs for tighter LSA like worse idle, and less top end. I may try a tighter LSA cam in the future though. Thanks for watching.
A 108 LSA may of brought up the torque numbers. Your currently 111 and it did carry well into higher rpm. Its all a compromise. The Edelbrock carb is simply fantastic. Neat build. It will rip. Enjoy and be safe.
Those Demon's came with some other air bleeds as they had some issues. But having to run more than a 10 jet sized spread means the air bleed sizing is off... How did you convert it from alcohol to gas? Im gonna guess you changed to metering blocks. And curious what that mechanical pump is feeding them at 5000+ for psi?
The 750 Demon I have has a stock jet size of 75/83 with power valve in front none in rear. I ran it on the street on another motor with 74/83 jets and AFR were pretty well calibrated. We went down 3 in the front and 3 up in the back on the dyno to arrive at the 71/86. This was what my machinist recommended to lean it out on the dyno, which seemed to work. We also made an air bleed change on the high speeds as well. If I ran a power valve in the rear the spread would not have been as large. The Edelbrock VRS 4150 has jet sizes of 72/72 out of the box but it has power valves both front and rear hence the square jetting. We used the same down 3 in front up 3 in the back to lean the VRS 4150 out, ending up at 69/75 .The Edelbrock and Demon use the same air bleeds oddly enough which differ from Holly air bleeds which are fatter on the top though the thread size is the same as the Demon and VRS 4150. For the alcohol to gas conversion, I changed metering blocks, squirters and needle + seats, all according to specs in the Demon carb book I mention in the Demon carb video I made on the subject. I'm not sure about the pressure on the carb during the dyno runs - we didn't have it instrumented. The gage on the carb fuel line showed about 6-7 psi when we were tuning it. The pump is a Carter "Super Strip" pump that flows 120 gph at 6-8 psi which is enough for 1000hp according to Summit's online fuel pump flow/hp calculator. The stock SBF pump only flows 40 psi and is good for 450 hp.
Does seem like a very good comparison, you pulled the edelbrock to 7000 and the others to not even 6500, but yeah does make more through out the band, and seems smoother.
Yeah, I only ran it to 6200 - 6500 for the runs with the Demon carb because it seemed power was leveling off around there. I swapped the Edelbrock on sooner than I was planning kind of on a whim and power noticeably increased, so I never switched back to the Demon for higher rpm runs.
40 over is 359 cubic inches, and 60 is 362.5 so call it a 362 I guess. A stock 351 is actually 351.8 cubic inches, which is closer to 352 ci. I'm guessing Ford called it a 351 to not confuse it with the 352 FE motor which has the same bore and stroke as the 351 Windsor.
Additionally, there is no "ideal AFR" for an engine. An engine wants what it wants, period. One engine combo might make best power at 13:1 afr, another might want a 12.5:1 afr. It's all about the combo and what the engine wants. NEVER tune an engine to a specific afr, read the plugs, and give it what it wants. In this video, it shows the demon carb was either not well tuned or simply mismatched for the combo. The Edelbrock was a better match for the combo....
@@markgoulette5056 Could be. Could also be we tune the Demon to perfection and doesn't outperform the other carb. +1 on reading the plugs. We read plugs on multiple runs.
@@cedricwilson2055 Well if you're making max power your plugs will be clean, white looking for the most part with some tan further down on the insulator. If you were running rich you wouldn't be making max power and your plugs would be showing some blaok or gray on the insulator and electrodes. Also if the engine is running into detonation problems you should be able to see that on the spark plugs as well.
Please excuse the very novice question, but I just took custodialship of my sister's 69 Mach 1. Upon arrival it's showing low oil pressure and low oil levels. I Don't know much about cars but I want to get oil in it before driving it to the Mustang mechanic that I located. Is the oil filled through the cap on the driver's side header cover? Sorry for the beginner question, but I have to start somewhere!
You have a legendary classic. So you want to maintain it as original as possible. And keep those serial numbers matching. And be willing to spend what it takes to do it right. And you basically are keeping it indoors and safe. Driving it only to really enjoy a nice day. You have been bestowed a legacy car.
@@PonkyKong Thanks for the compliments but I've owned the car since the 80s and have a little different perspective. It's nothing special as far as collectability goes. Ford made 70,000 Mach 1s in '69 - It's just a base model 2bbl 351 orginally. In another 50 years after gas engines have been banned, the car will have been scrapped, converted to an EV, or be in a museum. I'm going to enjoy it while I can. Furthermore I'd recommend anyone with the means to go buy a new Coyote Mustang and do the same before they go away. They are fabulous cars and way better than this old stuff in every way except for maybe styling.
Compared to what carb before? Oh I see a race demon in the description. Those is carbs seem to be really good. I wouldn't mind trying 2 850s on my tunnel ram 471 big block Mopar
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage definitely not, I do need more duration though. The solid flat tappet is 264-268 @ .050 . Have a 272-284 solid roller that I'll be installing maybe next year. This is going into a 70 dart I'm building to be a pro stock tribute car. I just need the temperature to cool down some so I can get back to work on it .
True,. This build started out as a 450 hp goal that kind of morphed into a 500 hp target. Probably would have chosen some different parts if I was shooting for 540,
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage Yeah, I kinda followed the same path. Built a 351W and kept getting gapped by 302s. Went from Edelbrock 60cc chambers to TFS heads with 53cc chambers. Swapped the Edelbrock Rpm manifold for TFS R series manifold. Tossed the 1-5/8 tube headers for 1-7/8". With the same Clay Smith solid cam and rejetted Quick Fuel carb It went from 436hp at 6400 to 544hp at 6900
Pistons are Wiseco part no. PTS501A3. I reused the valves that came with the heads. The heads are 30 years old, so I'm not sure of the valve brand, but I did replace one of them because the valve tip was damaged, and used a Melling V0988 to replace the one valve. It has the same dimensions as the other valves, but the underside of the valve head has a bit different shape.
annular discharge is an advantage especially on the top end have had three (hollley 4010/4011/560 race 2bbl)annular carbs and both top end and cold weather performance was great the 4 bbls didnt like getting warm in the case of that model type the 2 bbl had no issues
That Edelbrock is slick. I've been out of it so long I haven't ever seen it. Still have only smaller street carbs. 600 and 650 Holly and a 600 Edelbrock but they're for lower power small block V8s. The Edelbrock is much better than the Hollys for me.
Yes, the Edelbrock Performer series carbs are very reliable and perform well for street driving. I've run one on my 69 Mustang for years and never had any problems with it.
@@MarksMuscleCarGarage Yeah I have the Edelbrock 1406 on a Jeep with a 304 V8, small cam and fenderwell headers. Not high horsepower but good low/mid torque.
These are great heads and reliable good exhaust patterns, I bought mine in 1991 , there going on a 385 ci windsor for my 86 F150 , they have been sanding roll cleaned up and chambers cc balanced and polished .
Sounds like the 385 should be a good runner. I bought my heads in '93 I think, ... I ran them for about ten years before I pulled them and then dusted them off for my recent build.
Yes pistons were about .022 below deck on average. I compensated with a thinner head gasket though (.023 " thick), so not too bad. Thanks for watching!
Mine is a 383 with Eagle rods and crank, diamond pistons @12.57:1. Cam is a 630 with split duration 258/263@ .050 solid roller in an early block fitted with billet 4bolt mains. On E85 it made 726@8200. In my little maverick it makes for good fun. I have had no reliability issues in two years of driving on the streets mostly as the drag strip is not like it was when I started back in the late 1960s when you ran off the weight and advertised horsepower , no bracket bullshit. A good tuner/driver combination was hard to beat when it wasn’t a bunch of electronics and real men drove stickshifts. Hell they were almost all sticks back then, at least the fast ones were.
