See! Imagine the stunning effect of the beat rates if those long and heavy chords at the beginning and from 0:40 were tuned by well temperament! I can imagine how the unstable B major chords push the chords of B-flat major to achieve a kind of Beethovenian compositional mindset. You played brilliantly, and that's what gave me room to imagine. By the way, this is my favourite Beethoven sonata, apart from op. 106.
You have excellent taste as well. While I can't officially decide on a favorite Beethoven sonata, I have always been drawn to this one in particular. One of these days I would like to play Op. 106 - the Adagio especially would be amazing in Young I.
Have you tried meantone tunings like Aaron, 1/6 meantone (said to be the favourite tuning of Chopin's personal tuner) or modified meantone like Rameau?
I've tried 1/6 meantone and Temperament Ordinaire so far, as well as a few Well Temperaments like Neidhardt and Kirnberger. I would have gone with meantone for the Couperin, but probably would have had to tune it to B-flat, I think, as otherwise those A-flats towards the end really stuck out. Anyway I ran out of time, so I left it in Werckmeister III, especially because I was playing Bach on it a couple weeks earlier.
@@TheJoe13088 Fair enough. Thanks for telling me that. I'm willing to offer unconditional help or creative ideas if you need. It's really hard to find people trying to use well temperament on modern pianos anymore, except on harpsichords.
@@Moja_Ballada Thank you - I'm very grateful for your support and insightful comments. I have a lot to learn. The main difficulty is having to persuade people to "let" me tune the piano to Well Temperament whenever I travel to perform, as often they have no idea what I am talking about, and automatically resist anything that seems unorthodox.
I deeply understand and feel the same way you do. The only difference is that I am an international student and that makes it more difficult. People around me always think I'm an "old fart" and I have to experiment with my upright piano in my home in my home country during holidays. Anyway, it's my pleasure to share my feelings with you.
You have great taste and I favoured this harpsichord from the first moment I heard it from your video. Werckmeister III has always been my favourite tuning for Bach, even a few Chopin pieces. In my opinion Couperin's work generally sounds more ‘romantic’ in modern A=440, and this is a good performance that brings a new sensibility to the piece, which I really enjoyed.
Young I, an exemplary application in this piece. A simple example, 5:27 here, slow G major and C major chords, and F major, expressed the calmness of the beginning and the dawn before the storm. In Young I there is a gentle G major and F major (7.58 cents in major 3rd) and a calm C major (5.38 cents), these three keys have about half the beat rates of equal temperament. Then, contrast here with the gradual chaos that follows, a very dissonant left hand minor 9th and then, back to the main theme (17.84 cents). I think Young I here perfectly illustrated the thoughts and state of mind that Chopin was trying to express when he composed this piece, and, to exaggerate, even the images that came to his mind. The "paused" C major in 5:32 was as evocative as gazing at a sea with few ripples. This is an effect that can't be expressed in equal temperament, and I cannot say as much while listening to every major third of 13.69 cents and minor third of 15.64 cents. I am enjoying your playing and, being deeply moved.
Finally, someone who understands. That is exactly what I felt regarding that brief moment of peace when the music reaches C Major. Then it works its way back around to E Major by way of increasing dissonance. At least that is how I interpreted it. Young #1 revealed that to me, and I am thrilled that you not only noticed that, but are able to explain what is happening. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry that English is my second language. The application of Young I temperament on this piece is notable. In Pythagorean's theory, both major and minor thirds of the F# key in Young I temperament are "imprecise maxima" at 21.5 cents, in another word, almost every set of chords in Chopin's Barcarolle allows us to hear extremely high-frequency beat rates. Therefore, the effect of the overall performance may not sound "as good" as it should. However, for the context of this piece, which accompanied the breakdown of Chopin and George Sand's relationship, the feeling of "falling apart" makes sense.
It makes perfect sense to me. The high-frequency beat rates you refer to certainly do bring a special emotional and restless shimmering quality to the piece, to say the least. Perhaps if Chopin had written the piece in F major instead of F# it would have a completely different meaning. It really goes to show how temperament/tuning really can impact musical interpretation. Thank you for your insights.
Oh god listen to those beat rates from Young I temperament, what a sound! I am doing some research based on Young I and beat frequency and hope to get some creative ideas in the future as I was fascinated and blown away by your video and it gave me the motivation to continue doing my pre-PhD research.
Brilliant comparison. If anyone wants an instrument tuned to an unequal temperament I've been working on it since 2006 with a decade of experiment and five years of achieving a perfection. There are important aspects of putting what is audible here on steroids and bringing even greater resonance and smoothness to the result. I have tools and will travel . . .
Octaves, unisons, and voicing are not as nice on the left piano, which has nothing to do with temperament. Is the left piano a model B? How worn are the hammers? Seems like an impossible comparison without identical microphone placement and better matching instruments. I suppose you could swap the tunings, keeping everything else unchanged. The right piano sounds beautiful, but I'm not sure temperament is the reason.
Thanks for your discerning comment - you are correct. Had I the opportunity to have two matching pianos, perhaps I would have aimed for a more rigorous and fair comparison. However, I made this video on a whim, and for fun, during my honeymoon phase with Young's Temperament...which I still am love with. The model D piano on the right definitely has many advantages over the B on the left, other than the temperament. Hopefully one of these days I'll find time (and the right pianos) to make a better video, but this is what was available to me at the time. Also, I ended up not using the audio from the digital recorder that is visible in the video, so the audio is from the video, which was taken with my phone from its perch atop a music stand. If you'd like to hear the model B tuned to Young's, there are a couple 2-piano concerts up on my channel that feature the two Steinways together, both tuned to Young #1. Thanks again for listening, and for your comment.
Thank you so much! I was wondering some time how Young's temperament sounds in comparison to the equal one. Next time I will tune my piano according to Young.
Hi. I’ve been experimenting with unequal temperaments for about fifteen years and the back to back comparisons like yours can be remarkable. I want to recommend a mostly unknown tuning: the “Jean Jousse” well temperament of 1832 as documented by Jorgensen. I had a fondness for Young and tried a few other documented choices, most of which focused on progressive movement around the circle of 5ths. Jousse doesn’t, and provides very rich tonal contrast while working better with modern works.
A minor mazurka is particularly beautiful. The contrast between the sounds of the major and minor keys is so beautifully apparent. Also the wide minor 2nd E to F is emphasized in the modulation at 5:15 in such a nuanced way that is only revealed in unequal tuning. Oh and your playing is beautiful too. Did you tune the piano? Do you know how Thomas Young would have tuned without modern electronic tuners? Do you think he would have relied on listening to the beating as a measure?
Thank you very much for your comment and questions. Nice observation about that modulation. Yes, I tuned the piano myself, although I am just an amateur when it comes to tuning. While I don't know to what extent Young put his temperament theories into practice, I imagine that's probably how he would have done it-by feeling and counting the beats.
@@TheJoe13088 thanks for this response. I wonder about the 2nd thomas young temperament. Why chose the 1st over the second? When I look at the charts, the first has more contrasted numbers, the 2nd is more "equal". Is my hypothesis right? Thanks
@@mark80mark80 I tried Young's #2 recently, and it seemed pretty similar to #1. I liked the key contrasts in both. I think the difference has more to do with the process than the result. I'll have to do a more scientific experiment sometime.
You could do it after some practice. There are however no large orchestras really willing to play that way. It's like singing Vicentino's works (renaissance microtonal pieces), practically no one wants to start learning intonation from scratch.
Bands and especially fretless strings don't play in equal temperament. It would be more appropriate to ask how those groups could play with E.T. keyboards.
I much prefer the piano on the right. It just sounds better and I can’t explain why. I came to that conclusion before reading other comments or the explanation of what the experiment was. So it’s interesting others agree. Great idea. Lovely playing too!
So hard finding comparisons on youtube! And you play really well. The difference between ET and Young #1 is as that of night and day. Have you perchance ever played around with Young #2? I wish there was a video comparing them.
The equal is really dull, without a personality. The well tempered is with long "singing" sustain, it has the colors, warmth and yet strength. My choice too.
The piano on the right had a much fuller, more resonant, and more overtly complex, more beautiful sound. Nothing subtle in how different they sounded! [Playback system: usb into Dangerous Convert-2 D/A converter, direct to a pair of Geithain RL906 active monitors] On a side note: through my cheap inbuilt TV speakers the piano on the right often sounded horribly dissonant and shambolic, reminiscent of an out of tune upright piano in a honky tonk scene in an old cowboy movie.
Really would have liked a different mic setup. But he was going for a performance vibe so I get it. A more scientific approach would have been my choice, still feel lucky to have found the video and bravissimo to the pianist.
The recording in stereo playback is asymmetrical for comparison purposes: left piano coming more from left speaker and right from right speaker. Most people perceive sound quite differently for each ear, typically with higher frequencies louder in the left ear than in the right which applies for me. This made temperament comparisons more difficult for me. What was the mic set up?
Very beautiful playing. I think the temperament makes it sound like it could be an old, historical recording of this music. Maybe it’s just my imagination.
Wow! The Young Temperament takes the work to another dimension. Certainly gives the piece a much heightened sense of drama and colour. Beautifully played too!!
