Can’t talk about Ned Stark without mentioning another end of the spectrum: Tywin Lannister. People love to praise Tywin for “ending the war” with the red wedding when in fact, Tywin actually cleaned the mess that his own grandson (that was this way thanks to Cersei, who’s this way thanks to him) made while furthering the animosity of the other houses towards his family. - He genocided Reynes and Tarbecks. - He genocided Targaryens and Martells and added even more killcount with the death of Oberyn. - He genocided Starks and Tullys while also broke the guest right which made all the lords and ladies have to wear armors and weapons into every wedding afterward thanks to the paranoia that Tywin caused. When you built the reputation as a genocidal dictator, the only way to secure the dynasty is to have a competent heir to pick up where you left off and Tywin failed this horribly with how he treated Tyrion. Tywin in ASOIAF is a cautionary tale written by GRRM about a man who’s too obsessed with power and legacy that he treated everyone else, especially his own family, as a pawn in his game, not as a human being. That’s why he died on a toilet. Tywin in the GoT show, on the other hand, is a male power fantasy written by D&D and propagandized by the great Charles Dance. While I don’t deny his brilliance as an actor but Charles Dance made Tywin way too likable and the audience can easily miss the point of his character.
I completely agree that the show made Tywin a more likable character, which undermined his overall arc and development. In the books, he embodies brutal pragmatism, but the long-term costs of his ruthless decisions are rightfully critiqued. Tywin's legacy is built on bloodshed and fear, and his greatest failures stem from his obsession with power and control. By committing atrocities like the Red Wedding, exterminating the Reynes and Tarbecks, and contributing to the fall of the Targaryens, Tywin sowed deep animosity toward House Lannister.
Your videos are awesome! I came across your video on Valyria while searching for ASOIAF lore, and it was fantastic! The detail and knowledge you have shines through every video I have watched on your channel. Thank you for your great content on this incredible series!
It is a nice video and put together well, but you don't have the best voice or presentation. You read at erratic speeds and the vocal fry that you use inconsistently at the end of your sentences is off-putting. Also, your breathing is far too audible. I know constructive criticism is frowned upon, but there you go.
that seems like a strange thing to say, because I'm pretty sure this channel isn't AI... Maybe you're mistaking a slight speech impediment (which can be a difficult thing to "overcome," believe me I know), for an AI generated voice? AI is generally _very_ consistent in its sounds, which is what makes it sound weird. This sounds like a real person to me, due to the variation in annunciation of certain words and syllables... Or maybe you're AI and just projecting 🤷
Love this channel, my friends and I were literally in the middle of researching Valyria lore whenever they released the Valyria lore video. Super helpful! Keep it up
The non-Valyrian family who has to closest trait to the Targaryens and would be extremely dangerous if they could control dragons is the Lannisters. They are full of pride and ego (even without flying nukes in their disposal). They think they are more special than everyone else and are very genocide-happy in response to the tiniest of slight that they made a theme song to show how they are such great war criminals. They are not as smart as they think they are (not just Cersei but also Tywin and especially Tyrion. Just look at his conversation with Faegon). They hate Aerys but their regime is as oppressive if not more than Aerys. Joffrey is a young version of Aegon the Unworthy. The Lannisters gave the north to the Boltons, a psychopath serial killers family, to rule. And they are totally fine with using wildfire to their advantage (only Jaime isn’t okay with this).
Yes, I completely agree. The behaviors of the Targaryens and Lannisters are so similar that it's hard to tell which family believes in their own righteousness more. The Lannisters share several traits with the Targaryens and would be extremely dangerous if they controlled dragons. Their immense pride, sense of superiority, and readiness to commit atrocities. This combination would be a propensity for violence and would make them a formidable threat if they had dragons.
@@Rewatch.x The truth is, if George eventually finish the books (which is very unlikely), Tyrion will be the one who can control the dragons. He might not be able to ride any dragon per se, but he can poison Daenerys’ minds to make her more willing to lay waste on Westeros, especially on Cersei (which will parallel how both of their fathers, Tywin and Aerys, brought out the worst of each other). After all, Tyrion said that he wished Stannis killed all of those civilians in a trial. Now he has that power, it makes him even more dangerous and put him potentially in the most evil version of himself. He’s regarded as a “true son of Tywin” for a reason, not just because they are both intelligent but because they are both capable of committing war crimes in any scale, big or small, as well (I mean, in the books, he already had Bronn murdered and turned Ed Sheeran’s character into a stew because of a personal slight). It’s hard to see how he will redeem himself in the end. But thinking about it, maybe Tysha might be a key to his redemption. If he gets to meet her again, this might give him a change of heart.
Daenerys is the most anti-Valyrian Targaryen ever (if you don’t count Jon, who has no knowledge of his Targaryen lineage), in contrast to Faegon, who is very Valyrian to the core. While Faegon threw temper tantrums whenever the smallest things didn’t go his way, Dany faced so many challenges head-on. While Faegon moved west to gain his glory following Tyrion’s advice (which could parallel Aerys and Tywin in terms of they brought out each other’s worst impulses), Dany stays in the east to free slavery, which is against pro-slavery value of the Valyrians. While Faegon has those yes men propping him up to claim his “rightful” throne, Dany had to struggle alone. Her managing to hatch the dragons were complete coincidence. What makes Faegon special is that he’s a Targaryen (or Blackfyre). What makes Daenerys special are her dragons and her values. Still, I prefer Jon much more because he achieved everything through his own merit. No special power or dragons (at least not until his resurrection) to the point that his true lineage might end up irrelevant to him and his followers.
Completely agree with this statement, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Daenerys Targaryen indeed stands out as one of the most unique Targaryens, diverging significantly from traditional Valyrian values and customs. Her journey contrasts sharply with that of Faegon, who embodies the more stereotypical Valyrian behaviors. Dany often wonders what she’s unleashed upon the world with her dragons. Jon Snow's arc is compelling precisely because of his lack of inherent advantages. His achievements are born out of his personal merit, leadership, and sense of duty.
I disagree with the sentiment that needs downfall was due to his sense of honor and duty. Ned got extremely unlucky, that’s it. 99 out of 100 times he would have won.
There is no character in ASOIAF who represents the conflict within one’s heart better than Jaime Lannister. He has a loyalty to House Lannister, but he also knows that his dad and sister/wife are bad people and what he did to Bran and Tyrion/Tysha were awful. He wants to be honorable for the sake of Catelyn and Brienne and to become more like Ned but his path to honor is also at odds with Cersei’s dishonorable nature. And what will happen once he meet Catelyn again, now in a zombie form who holds a grudge against him because she thinks that he killed her son? He wants to protect Sansa but also tried to kill Bran and Arya and is totally a OK with Robb being dead (he never denied his involvement with the red wedding when Hoster Blackwood called him out for it) but also at the same time, sympathizes with Robb’s wife and feels disgusted at the Freys (while also having to work with them). Not to mention about him being condemned as a kingslayer because he dishonored himself by betraying Aerys to protect the civilians, an action that is quite honorable from a certain point of view. It’s hard to find an honorable character in ASOIAF universe because honor is a very subjective thing.
I like the video, it’s good stuff I can tell your young so it’s all very easily forgiven we live and learn, but just try taking your time pronouncing words properly. Eg: at 36:18 “buralley” rather then “brutality” You speak okay, you are informed on the topic and know what you want to say about it but your pronunciation needs work, listen to your own recordings to make sure your saying things correctly Keep at it, you’ll do well for yourself on here
I'm assuming your comment was made with good intentions, but it's almost certainly some kind of speech impediment, possibly due to being hearing impaired or just something else out of their control.... and that can be _incredibly_ hard for someone to "correct" (I'm not hearing impaired, but I've struggled with a lisp throughout my childhood and adolescence, and even up until this day sometimes, so believe me, I know). It's good content (as you said), so cut them some slack. I'm sure they're "working on it," and likely don't need people reminding them of their annunciation every time they decide to put themselves out there and release a video.
@@J_Mock92 Constructive criticism its important to help us identify areas we could improve, especially in the world of media presentation where the goal is to capture and keep the audiences attention, people care about speech. You are literally making up assumptions and excuses on behalf of the creator stating they are impaired? Rather then just assuming they are capable and pointing out where they could improve going forward? excuse me but grow up a little bit buddy not everything is a personal attack and not everyone needs you to make up excuses on their behalf.
@@yeahnahman4217 I'm well aware that constructive criticism is a good thing, and I'm not making baseless assumptions. I don't know this creator personally, and don't know if they're hearing impaired (I never "stated" that they were) or what's going on, but I do have ears and eyes, and they obviously speak with some sort of slight speech impediment (for whatever reason), and they get comments like this on every video they've released (some a lot meaner than the way you worded it), to which they clearly see but don't ever respond to, so it doesn't take a genius to realize what might be going on. A little bit of context clues, common sense, and tact has never hurt anyone... I'm plenty grown, so please don't lecture me, when I was simply pointing out a possible reality. It's not like I was being rude to you. The only reason I responded to your original comment specifically, was because the way you worded it sounded incredibly condescending, in an "aww, good effort, maybe you'll get it next time" kind of way, as if you were speaking to a toddler or something (you even said "I can tell you're young," and "you speak _okay_ " and "keep at it," like what?). That's not really worded in a way that "constructive criticism" is presented to an adult that you'd view as a peer, as opposed to a subordinate...
@@J_Mock92 people make excuses for themselves every day to justify being less, too often actually in todays society. We can be better but we have to know we aren't already as good as we could be Their voice is young clearly, that stood out to me more to me then speech a impediment someone still in school age exactly why I said "easily forgiven live and learn" because young people need encouragement that is all part of it, fall down, get up this is also why I also time stamped, to show I actually watched through the video and enjoyed it like I said I did I didn't ridicule them with 30 time stamps of every stumble, no it was strait forward and to the point like a adult or peer. "keep at it, you'll do well for yourself on here" I'm a stranger on the internet giving them free praise and direct, clear non degrading criticism, more then they could've asked for really.
I believe honor is so important in the books, but not in a Lord of the Rings way. Tolkien wrote those books as an ode to honor and duty, honorable men and women are the heroes, the kings, the saviors of the world, and those that aren't honorable are punished even in the afterlife. Martin wrote A Song of Ice and Fire as an antithesis. The heroes are not honorable, Ned dies a stupid death, Stannis loses the crown before even proclaiming himself king. All the honorable characters are punished. They die, they lose, they are ridiculed. But the least honorable keep falling into power. They sieze it with treachery, killing their king, their kin and their allies, stealing, pillaging, burning and hanging the innocent. Honor is arguably more important in ASOIAF than in LOTR. When the world is filled with dishonorable men and women, honor is the central theme. What isn't there is more important because it isn't there. Because the reader wants honor, they cry when their favorite character dies an honorable death, betrayed and humiliated. They hate the kinslayers, they despise the traitors and clench their teeth when they keep winning. The reader keeps reading waiting for retribution waiting for the world to go back to normal so the honorable win again and the dishonorable lose like they should. But Martin is a genius writer, ASOIAF doesn't let you win, it will subvert your expectations once and a thousand times. By the end you won't feel the satisfaction of the return of the king. Daenerys and Jon won't end up living happily ever after. They might win at the end, but winning has a cost. ASOAIF is cynical, lacking of morals, honor or duty. But does it really matter if the world is cruel? If you want to be good in a cruel world, that doesn't make you stupid, naive or less good. To quote a wise dragon named Paarthurnax: “What is better - To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
Your analysis captures the essence of the thematic contrast between Tolkien's and Martin's works beautifully. Indeed, Tolkien's world is a celebration of honor, valor, and the triumph of good over evil. Characters like Aragorn and Frodo embody these virtues and are rewarded. In stark contrast, Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is a study in moral ambiguity and the harsh realities of power. Honor, while present, often leads to tragic ends. Their adherence to honor and duty, which would be lauded in Tolkien's world, becomes their downfall in Martin's more brutal and cynical universe. Martin's narrative indeed subverts traditional expectations, leaving readers in a constant state of tension and unpredictability. The bittersweet victories and costly triumphs of characters like Daenerys and Jon reflect a more realistic and gritty depiction of life. The quote from Paarthurnax adds a profound layer to this discussion. In a world like Martin's, striving to be good despite the surrounding cruelty is a monumental effort and speaks volumes about a character's true nature. It suggests that overcoming one's darker impulses and choosing honor and goodness, despite knowing the likely consequences, is a profound act of courage and virtue. The two series highlights different aspects of honor and morality. While Tolkien's works idealize and reward honor, Martin's narrative presents it as a rare and often perilous path, making it all the more significant and poignant.
Even the most honorable character like Brienne has her arc of having to break her oath and betray (zombie) Catelyn. Loyalty is meaningless in ASOIAF. GRRM is a genius writer but he might be too cynical for his own good. That could be the reason why he can’t finish Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring because he might saw the negative reactions of the audience to the show ending (which was supposed to be his original vision) and chose to rewrite the whole thing.
@@nont18411 Yup, I think that's exactly what happened, it was easy tu subvert expectations when his series didn't have millions of people speculating and figuring out his twists and turns. There are so many theories around that a combination of them has to be what happens. And that's why he got frustrated and keeps rewriting the books.
In the books, only the Boltons and the Freys are unarguably dishonorable, and the Lannisters arguably dishonorable. But other than tywin household, the rest of the Lannisters seem to be honorable enough. It's more common among knights and small folk we see the word have no meaning.
You raise an interesting point about the nature of honor in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire. It's true that the Boltons and the Freys are clear examples of dishonorable behavior, with their treachery and cruelty. Your observation about honor among knights and smallfolk is also significant. Knights, who are supposed to embody honor, frequently fall short, revealing the gap between ideals and reality. This dissonance reflects the broader theme of the series: the struggle to uphold honorable principles in a world rife with corruption and moral ambiguity. Interestingly, this disparity makes the acts of genuine honor we do see even more impactful. Martin's world is a complex tapestry where honor is a rare and precious commodity, often overshadowed by pragmatism and survival. Yet, it's precisely this scarcity that makes it so significant and memorable when it does appear.
@@Rewatch.x no, my point is actually that only noble houses care about it in general. Treachery is rare among the nobles, and honor isn't common among the small folk, specially in king's landing, but it's noticable everywhere else. We could say the world of ice and fire isn't much different than our world really. It's only the show that gave us the absolute dark evil natured idea of it, which I didn't find at all when I read the books. Even books Freys where in conflict about the red wedding unlike the show.
I can tell you cooked on this video. Big ask, and not at all expected, but can you the creator or someone else reply to this comment tomorrow so I can remember to watch while at work? It's too late to appreciate this at the moment. Work like this is what builds audiences. Even if this doesn't get as many views as you wish, keep doing deep-dives like this. This is the meta, either super short form or super long form is what rides the algorithms. You were on my front page, so you did something right. Can someone please remind me to finish this video when it isn't so late? Even if not, good work. You should be proud.
@@DerickTheHeroV2 Thank you so much for seeing the effort. I put in these videos they take a while, but I enjoy doing them. Continue watching and enjoying. I appreciate your feedback.
Is anyone else making the connection between game of thrones and conciousness/current political drama? Are the children of the Forrest aliens? My brain is breaking
