Could I throw in another thought after having watched all your excellent videos on EV vehicles and now the Hydrogen vehicle. What are your thoughts on Hybrid cars? I, and may be others, cannot go all EV as we do not have a means of charging the battery of an EV due to constraints of location/parking.
“Elon Musk is right - it’s better to charge the electric car directly by plugging in,” Yoshikazu Tanaka, the chief engineer in charge of Toyota’s Mirai
In terms of powering EVs and a general fuel used by the public, Hydrogen is the most inefficient fuel and the worst available option. It certainly isn't green.
re the 5:55 unless these pumps and filling stations have changed, the hydrogen is dispensed as a very cold liquid (RU-vidr Real Engineering). So cold that the next driver could be waiting as the pump nozzle might be too cold to operate dispensing. Side note: it will be interesting to see how the new Extreme H (formerly Extreme E) will manage. They talk about using green hydrogen dispensed to power those off road racing cars. Don't think it will be in liquified form as a car needs to warm up the hydrogen before getting to those fuel cells. Could be using suppressed gas tanks maybe. Don't know how robust those fuel cells will be inside an off roader (hitting bumps and being bumped by others).
Good comments. They should do the same as Tesla who created a charging network to support the new BEVs paradigm. Not doing so means Toyota hasn't got confidence in hydrogen for the long term and its just a delaying tactic
Yes, you would think that they could have done that. As you say, it's an extremely important part of why Tesla have been as successful as they have to date. It's outside of their comfort zone and experience, but ignoring the problem isn't wise.
It is not as easy as it looks. Unless there are other hydrogen powered cars manufacturers , it does not make sense to create a hydrogen supply network to power their cars! Hydrogen is inflammable and explosive! Read: Hindenberg!
Yes, that's a potential problem, for sure. Having said that, I'm not aware of any incidents with hydrogen cars. I think they largely managed to mitigate the risk by designing with it in mind from the outset - but that doesn't mean zero risk.
Toyota are currently hamstrung by hydrogen being Akio Toyoda's "big plan" for the company, almost certainly the Olympic deal was struck years ago under his watch. I was discussing this with a Japanese friend and she's adamant that, despite him stepping down in early 2023, instantly ditching all his plans simply couldn't happen. At the highest level Toyota are a very traditionally Japanese business, there are certain cultural niceties of honour and respect that must be adhered to; when enough time has passed they'll be able to say something like "recent advances in battery technology have made BEVs more viable" or "the rising cost of fuel cell catalysts has put hydrogen at a disadvantage". They will then be able to drop hydrogen without Akio Toyoda losing face.
Thanks, that's very interesting. I was aware of this as an issue, but somewhat naively, I thought it would end once Toyoda started his new role. In hindsight, I can see why they can't do an immediate u turn despite the change of position.
That's a great point of view - one I identify with. Having said that, a modern EV (2019 onwards, in the main) is much easier to live with than the early variants. I think the 2013 Renault ZOE played a really important part in getting us to where we are - but that would be much harder to live with than my ZE50. 90ish miles of range was ... achievable. But not straightforward. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Bless all of those who paved the way for us to follow.
Drove to my local petrol station last week to get some groceries. Forecourt was closed as the tanker was delivering. I would have loved to have a camera in each ICE vehicle recording the bleeps.
Ah, a very interesting point. Yes, I didn't think of that - but yes, I've been in that situation, too. My suspicion is that it's a relatively modern problem brought about by a drive to do more risk assessments, but I could be wrong.
This channel is UK based and targeted, what sort of natural disasters do we get? The occasional violent storm; most affected homes get reconnected within 24 hours and urban areas very rarely get affected even in the worst storm. Heavy snow; not very common and if it's so bad as to affect the power grid you're not going to be driving anywhere. In both cases, if there's no electricity you're not filling with fuel either.
Agreed. There are parts of the world where power outages are much more of a problem - South Africa, for example. But we don't have to choose what we drive based on their problems
Then don’t force people to buy evs. The ev agenda is being forced down people’s throats . It’s too expensive and unreliable to own . Do charging is outrageously expensive. Basically poverty is being forced
Very interesting, never had any issues in the past 10 years driving EV only but worth bearing in mind. Good job we have solar and battery storage to charge the car if we ever get a black out!. Worth noting the so called National Grid is a privately owned business, nothing to do with Government....probably the very reason it works most of the time.
Thanks, your real-world experience is a valuable example of why this probably isn't an issue. Yes I take your point on National Grid independence and it's reliability!
I have been driving an EV for 7 years now and we had one power outage in that time. It was a digger outside the house cutting an underground cable. It took 4 hours for the street to get power back. My car was not on charge as I charge over night. I now have solar and battery and have 18kwh with backup power available if I need it. This is not something that keeps me up at night as UK electricity supply is generally excellent.
I have been driving an EV for 7 years now and we had one power outage in that time. It was a digger outside the house cutting an underground cable. It took 4 hours for the street to get power back. My car was not on charge as I charge over night. I now have solar and battery and have 18kwh with backup power available if I need it. This is not something that keeps me up at night as UK electricity supply is generally excellent.
18Kwh is a decent chunk of backup, that's useful. Although I suppose it's a limited amount of charge in an EV, in and of itself. However, having solar to top up the car when off grid would be a very nice benefit
I won’t but an electric car. Not unless the battery technology is totally different from today. Instead I drive with Compressed BioGas. It is efficient, inexpensive and I can drive for 500 kilometer on one tank. CBG/CNG is a fantastic fuel. Forget electric.
After decades of powerful two seaters, I reached an age when I struggled to get in and out, so bought a 451. I wondered if I was doing the right thing. The 130bhp remap helped but I absolutely LOVE it.
Re public charging stations, where they use battery storage, I would expect a short power outage not to interrupt recharging. Likewise if you have a properly set up home battery, it should keep the car charging for a few minutes at least if important. If v2h, it'll work the other way too!
Very true. It feels like recharging sites with onsite battery storage are probably in the minority at the moment, but it does keep connection costs down, so we could easily see that model proliferate. Cars use a LOT of energy, so I decided not to talk about home storage as a potential solution. Based on the reliability, it's not entirely necessary. It's definitely a nice addition though, to improve choices in the unlikely event that there were a lengthy outage.
I have had comments on this very subject of power cuts, referring back to the 3 day week and strikes in the 1970's and rolling power cuts !! Why do so many people live in the past? Meanwhile, in 10 years of ownership, my EVs have never failed to be charged when required.
Get them to read this about fuel shortages in the UK en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_protests_in_the_United_Kingdom. you can also explain to them with the advent of solar and wind, we are approaching the point where we no longer need to rely on external fuel suppliers or being held ransom by fuel that needs to be mined and shipped
I didn't know about the 3 day week and rolling blackouts until researching for this video. I was just too young, I think. It seems to have been a problem caused in large part by reliance upon fossil fuels, in that case, coal
as a fellow ze50 zoe owner, what are our options for using the zoe as a domestic power backup or even just occasional mains power supply....for a tool etc?
Sadly, I don't know of any good options. The ZOE was not built for that task. You could attach an inverter to the 12V system, but you would want to be very careful about power draw. Be sure to stay within the maximum current supported by the car. That severely limits what power can be extracted. For example, a 100w output would draw something like 10A at 12V (assuming some conversion losses) and 10A is a lot of current to take from the 12V system. That's not something I would want to do.
I live in a remote part of the North Highlands, so I'm at the mercy of really extreme weather and long supply lines, very much as bad as you're going to get in the UK. We get short power cuts quite frequently, probably as many as 30 - 40 per year, but they're literally a few seconds. A couple of times a year we'll lose power for long enough to check the SSEN outage webpage to see if it's worth hooking up the generator, but it very rarely is. The usage meter on the genny is currently at 57 hours in 18 years, what a waste of money that was! The power cut excuse is just another desperate attempt justify not making a decision that many people know they have to make.
Oh yes, you really are towards the end of a very long cable! Thanks greatly for the comment, that's a very interesting view of the other extreme for the UK. I toyed with the idea of talking about generator backup for fuel stations (and how unlikely it was they had it) but the figures for reliability indicated that was very unlikely to be something they had seriously considered for most parts of the country! As I mentioned in the video, there are parts of the USA where some form of backup power might make sense, as they have outages for days, in the extreme, but these days I might veer towards battery backup as the option. Battery backup can kick in MUCH faster, so much so you might not even know there was an outage. However, it's not cheap, so doing the maths for your particular scenario is most definitely a requirement - and not to be taken lightly
@@theelectrictransitionThere are security problems with genny backup for fuel stations. The pump control systems can't allow the pump to be energised by an external power supply because of theft risk, so the vast majority must detect an uninterrupted grid connection before they'll operate. I know the pumps at our local fuel station won't dispense for 30 minutes if the power supply is interrupted.
Ooh, nice detail. Thanks, that's good to know. It makes sense - they have to cover themselves against the unscrupulous, with ingenious ways round the general expectations we normal folk have!
Another thing that HAS affected ICE vehicle drivers a few times in the last decade or so, is a fuel crisis or two. At that point, you get LONG queues for fuel, or stations that simply don't have any at all.
Yes, well said. I alluded to that in the video, talking about the supply chain for fuel, which is long and complex. However, I wanted to be careful about balance. It is extremely rare that it happens - there have been 3 periods in my life where it happened to me - but for sure and definite, when it does happen, it's VERY severe. The most recent was an unfounded panic during Covid, which was pretty temporary- but that's not to underestimate it. I still remember the fuel station I queued at - once - during that brief period of publ9c overreaction
I've just had solar installed and one of the questions asked in the initial quoting phase was "do you want home backup in the event on a power cut". Given I've worked from home for well over 4 years now I can honestly say there hadn't been a single one I could think of so decided to save some money. The chances there is a power cut just as I've run my car to virtually flat is non existent. I mean, even if I were on a road trip, I seldom get that low before needing a top up so I'd just drive to the next town or service station. I mean, when has there ever been a country wide blackout?
Yes, well said. I am tempted by the idea of battery backup, but more to cope with local failures than national outages - and for my home, not my car. Even then, it's not based on financial sense but preference - I would *prefer* to stay powered, not that I *need* to stay powered. That long outage was ... boring. Very boring!
Are all your powermeters calibrated? You should at least use 2 totally different models when you measure. OK I might still be correct, but nobody knows?
They are not calibrated, no. They are as accurate as a poor content creator can manage. However, as I mentioned in the video, there are reasons to believe they will not be wildly inaccurate.
I think degradation measurement is very difficult and only an approximation is possible and I will propose another method: If you charge your car 20 to 80% say five times which makes 300% over the period (assuming you've zeroed the consumption at the beginning) now read your car's total (drive and accessories ie a/c etc. - Megane Etech seperates these two so you need to add) consumption meter then divide by 3 for our example case you would get a better battery capacity measure; I think. What is your thoughts ? Brgds from Istanbul
Yes, that might also be an interesting figure to calculate. I went with the approach in the video because I wanted to minimise the figures I used from the car. Some people might accuse the manufacturers of adjusting the figures in their favour - and scandals like dieselgate certainly suggest some caution is appropriate in using manufacturer-provided data.
A bit, yes. However, finding good independent data proved very difficult. I didn't want to use the manufacturer data, but as I explained in the video, the Geotab study seemed quite flawed, and somewhat out of date. The EVs that I recommend people to try are the latest breed, widely available from about 2019 onwards, so a study from 2019 is not particularly representative - especially one that was very small.
Around here vehicle fires are common, often burning vehicles to the ground, BMWs and Audis seem particularly flammable. So far though, no EV fires at all.
I purchased a new '24 P2 last Friday here in central Ohio USA it will arrive in early July. Your's is an honest review, with good info & thought.. I'm moving up from a '22 Chevy Bolt EUV that we've enjoyed. The P2 will be our 8th Plug-In, and as you said, they each take some time to sort out... I look forward to that challenge with the P2. Every time I leave the house here, I see 100 Teslas on the road. Honestly, I don't recall ever seeing a Polestar 2 on our streets... I like that it will be unique!
Yes, that's a choice that should make you stand out from the crowd. Ageing wheels has one and (mostly) loves it, as does Max from Out of Spec. Having something other than a Tesla seemed to be a factor in each's decision. I hope you really enjoy it when it arrives. I remain slightly jealous of the countries that got the Bolt and Bolt EUV. I think they came to Europe, but not to the UK. It seemed a really good car for the price - charging was fairly slow, but in the UK that would matter a bit less. We're a lot smaller than the US, so road trips are probably shorter here, on average.
@@theelectrictransition We owned a Volt, Bolt EV, and Bolt EUV, which are/were all great cars! I had reserved an EX30, but tariffs, the declining value of my EUV, and GREAT Polestar incentives moved me to buy the P2 I look forward to it... Again, thanks for your video and kind words.
If you look at like for like meaning excluding ice vehicles of over ten years old as there aren’t EV’s of that age according to insurance companies they are about the same as they say that in newer ice cars the biggest cause is a fault in the 12volt circuit no the video showed the blaze shooting out from under the front passenger door where the battery is fitted the front video is not the same car , if they are safe why are some insurance companies not insuring some blocks apartments with under ground car parks with charging facilities. In New York in 2023 there were 268 lithium battery fires and 18 people killed and 150 injuries
I would imagine the vast majority of those fires in New York were mobile or micro-mobility devices, rather than cars. They aren't made to the same exacting standards - or, sometimes, ANY standards. Furthermore, they are often charged indoors, so they pose a much greater risk than a car.
It's part of the Geely group. It came about as a spin off from Volvo, who are also owned by Geely now - as are Smart (shared ownership with Mercedes, I think) and a myriad of other brands, although quite a few of them are little known outside of China, yet.
Great review and similar to my experiences as a new Polestar 2 owner. Re: Cameras - You can access the rear-only camera by tapping on the screen when it's in 360-degree mode, and selecting the rear camera (or front, or side). Re: Infotainment navigation - the little horizontal bar at the bottom of the screen is the home button. Agree that it's too subtle for it's own good! Re: Comfort - haven't had any issues with comfort for myself. Much comfier than other cars that i've tested, but we're all different shapes and sizes so that's to be expected.
Thoughtfully done review, it’s always going to be difficult to fully engage with a new vehicle over just two days, but I reckon it’s well worth the time to try before you buy as they say. Nice little treat 👍
Thanks. Yes, it always takes a while to get used to something new. In the end I only had it for about 12 hours, but I did come to like it even in that short time.
Ooh, indeed they could - and then they'd need to test each van was working properly afterwards. It would be a hardship, but I reckon I could do that. Hehehe
There's a shift in opinion happening all over the UK about diesel. Car owners were lied to, so I'm not going to blame anyone for buying a diesel car a few years ago thinking that it was low emission. Now we know how polluting the engines are and there are plenty of alternatives available. Even diehard diesel owners in my family are planning to ditch their cars when they upgrade. However, they still fly around the UK several times a year, sometimes several times a month.. because it's cheaper and "faster" than the train! Cars aren't the only problem.
That's very true. There is a lot that needs changing. I saw an interesting documentary on why diesel became a significant part of the market in Europe. A lot of it was driven by the fossil fuel industry, who wanted to sell heavier fractions of the oil they were refining. Fostering the diesel market was a way to achieve an uplift in sales of fractions that had little value at the time. It was a cunning bit of marketing.
A real easy way to think of evs is where they get their energy from for driving. I think that getting the energy directly from the grid seems better than go the long way. Getting the petrol to the pump takes a lot of energy. From getting the oil of the ground, refine it and transport it to the pump. And then only use about 25-30% of the energy in the petrol. And a good point many makes is the air as such. We don't need pollution from the tail pipe. Another thing is the actual pollution from an average ICE car. Cold start as every ICE car does and there is no filter, cat or anything holding the pollution back until the engine and everything isreally warm and that takes time. For me it's obvious just by thinking of it that an ev in the long run i better. Think of everything about batteris that gets better year by year. An ICE car is what it is and can't really be better.
Kia seem to be the most promising major ice legacy brand for bringing quality, innovation and price competitiveness to EVs. However there is no denying Teslas advantages with software and networking. Indeed I have heard their future focus is being a software, automation and networking company ahead of being a vehicle producer - there are close to 100 Chinese companies alone quite able to spew out massive quantities of EVs at keen prices. Good luck with the channel.
I wholeheartedly agree. Hyundai Group (Kia/Hyundai/Genesis) have built some great EVs, and it has done their brand a lot of good. Thanks for the best wishes!
*Quite agree with all your comments, a few years ago did consider buying an EV as were stated to be the best thing since **_sliced bread_** however now so glad I opted instead to get a Mercedes (W247) B200 CDi AMG 8 Speed [Diesel] with 81 miles on the clock (ex Demo) with all the latest tricks etc - and got a massive discount of nearly 10k from list price. This has absolutely amazed me, so so quiet, incredible range and over 35 mile journey (A6/A46) to Newark in Eco Mode [Freewheels when lifting throttle] did nearly 90 mpg - hit traffic near end. This car will no doubt still be running in 20 years time and still giving good sensible practical use. I don't make many journeys outside most EV's Range, but during summertime take generally a trip every week of between 150-300 miles Cotswolds, Wales or Cromer - I start to Range Anxiety when see only have 60 Miles left in tank and warning light comes on !*
I that section of the M4 very well, it’s of appointments in Swindon and to the west. Driving back in my i3 in winter was getting enough buffer before the two big hills as I passed Swindon east back to Maidenhead. I’ve now got a big battery rear wheel drive Model 3 with more than double the winter range, but those range extending skills are of a lifetime benefit. Another great video, matter of fact and explained in an easy to understand way. Keep up the great work!
The market is becoming more normal compared with ICE after w weird few years. I suspect it will be similar to ICE, although maybe a bit more as battery technology is changing fast. ICE cars will one day fall off a cliff though as demand falls and fuel gets relatively more and more expensive.
It has been an odd period - but it seems to have been high on everything. Back to the old days, to some extent - it's just been a few years since depreciation was a significant concern. However, high depreciation is a benefit for those buying used, which is what i always recommend anyway.
The Tesla phenomenon imo is mostly due to the Supercharger network. In the early days the alternative cars didn't have same range or the same ability to charge on road trips. That unique advantage led to huge sales of Tesla from that factor alone as other EV drivers' main gripe is the 'other' infrastructure. That is changing of course and is probably why Tesla is now shaving their prices to maintain the sales volume. There are other Tesla advantages such as pre-conditioning and route planning for stops. And for people who rely on those features they will probably stay loyal for future car changes.
Charging is certainly a very important part of it, I agree. The Supercharger network remains the leader, and indeed the sudden and widespread moves in America to switch to the NACS connector have to strengthen their position there.
