I believe that the AP has a narrow lens (skewed, bent, and broken) and the AP reduces their empathy-so in a sense they lose a bit of their humanity. Duplicity=inauthentic. I have never been betrayed but I have seen these ‘other’ women in social situations with their AP. They seem uncomfortable and constantly keeping an eye on their AP like they can’t trust them. It’s not worth it. The betrayed wife actually seems to move onto a better life and the ‘other’ woman is still jealous of her. It’s bizarre.

Thank you for this. You are articulate and clear. You don’t mince your words. It’s tough to find speakers and professionals on RU-vid who are motivational. Thanks for motivating me! Three months ago, I left a relationship with my boyfriend after 10 months of Couples Counseling. It was clear that we were incompatible, and the counselor was concerned that we were pretzeling ourselves to please one another. It was the toughest decision to make myself leave and brought out of side of my boyfriend I had not seen With me, though had seen with others. It took me 18 months to cultivate the courage to leave. You hit it on the nail where there’s an amazing identity overhaul in crisis of the identity: the hardest thing I think for most of us to ever have to go through. Processing the feelings afterward felt like the worst fight or flight self-examination and Self scrutiny I’d ever put myself through, as if my self-concept and my relationships with Society, Family, friends, my boyfriend was trial and I was about to go prison for failing at it. Months before I exited, my boyfriend and I had discussed a friendship-fallback to which I was readily prepared and looked Forward to on an occasional basis. Though, he would have none of it. The amount of blame hurling at me in the words, he used helped in the sense that it solidified my conviction as to why I needed to leave. It pretty much sealed off the door to friendship. He showed his cards that confirmed I took the right path. Coming out of all of this has given me a rebirth in a way I never could’ve imagined. My worst fear of leaving or being left came true and it was every terror I ever thought it would be. But I did it For myself, and oddly enough, I did it for my boyfriend, because he was miserable too, and someone had to make a move. It certainly is complex our human relationships with regard to attachment, attunement, the four Horsemen of the apocalypse as John Gottman and his wife talk about. I truly believe in all of that and will continue to practice those lessons that I learned in counseling.

This person is trying to sound intelligent, but it could be a thousand different things besides what is being implied. Assuming you know without all the facts is not intelligent; in fact, it is as far from intelligence as one can get.

This entire explanation or argument is premised on the idea that marriage is somehow an ideal state and not in actuality a largely failed myth of culture in which people become subsumed and pigeonholed. The assumption that I must be broken, confused or compromised because I have chosen to make love with my partner is the least feminist position you could possibly take. I am neither of those things. What I am is in full embrace of reality. My sexual needs are being met. His sexual needs are being met. She has zero sexual interest in her husband. For six of the last 17 years she has not touched him and avoid him by staying up late after he goes to bed. For five of those years he and I were drawn to each other and did nothing about it despite strong desire and friendship. This year I changed my perspective on the entire thing because I stopped to think about how short life actually is, about how much I genuinely like him and care about his happiness, and about how little I buy into the BS about marriage. In this video you perpetuate the myth that marriage is an ideal state for any individual, no matter what. I wholeheartedly disagree. And I think that assertions that people who do not believe that marriage is an ideal state need to be fixed is like saying that LGBTQ individuals need to be reprogrammed. Marriage is the biggest hoax played upon people there has ever been. If I do my partner any favor whatsoever it is not orgasms or blowjobs, it is seeing him for the whole person he is and acknowledging that the only thing that prevents him from fully expressing himself is his unfortunate state of being caught up in the marriage myth. Every aspect of our culture insists that people do this thing that is anathema to their existential right to be free and express themselves fully. Men and women are jacked around by fiction, advertising, capitalism, marketing, stereotypes and bullshit. The person who needs help is the one who will not acknowledge the truth that most marriages do not last, that physical desire shifts and most often leaves, and that infidelity is common for a very good reason. It would be more honest for you to create a video in which you discuss this truth and liberate people from cultural narratives that entrap them.

I prefer Esther! You seem so closed in and much less open, wise and intelligent. You lack the ability to see the complexity of relationships and situations. Just being honest.

The 3 roles are actually 2 roles. The AP is the "innocent" one. The one cheating is at fault. The one being cheated on is at times at fault as well. It is between the two of them. The 3rd is most often a symptom of the malfunction.

Amazing insights! I much appreciate your generosity for making this available! I already bought courageous love now I will get dr Fishbane’s book. You are amazing people above everything!❤

Don't give a fuck...that's they problem, not mine!!! Peaceful life!!

I did NOT have an affair omg you are so wrong. My parents did not cheat!!

Dara you going to hell

This provided a lot of clarity for me, thank you and please keep them coming.

Very insightful‼️

How will I ever get the AP to hear this? It all makes sense. Oh. I'm the betrayed spouse. Maybe I should not have listened, but I'm working on trying to forgive and empathize with the AP.

Mimi said all men cheat

Sounds like Dara

I didn’t have no affair with Scott

What about the sex!!

Trust has to be felt. It’s so hard. Words and actions must match.

I just wanted to thank you for this insight. It's helpful to me 💙

Esther Perez speaks nine languages - she states that there is a word for the other woman in all 9 Languages yet there are no words in those languages for the other man. I find that interesting.

Wish you’d address the problem in older people’s marriages - sexless marriages. Usually it’s the woman doesn’t want sex anymore. Or sometimes a partner becomes ill or has a dementia. Is the other person obligated to remain sexless for the rest of his/her life in these circumstances? I know a few couples in these kinds of situations. The partner who still wants and needs sex doesn’t want to end the marriage, and neither do the affair partners they’re involved with. Both have settled lives, but just need physical intimacy. A friend of mine is in her late 60s and still very sexual. Her affair partner is in his late 60s as well, and his wife has dementia and other end-of-life health issues. They’ve been together for almost three years. He is honoring his vows for “in sickness and health” and is committed to his wife’s care, but also is still in need of sex …

If she doesnt want him and he doesn’t want her but she won’t let him go… it’s been over for 15 years! We’re happy together. He IS getting divorced. We never cheated. Just attracted.

He told me he had been separated for 3 years and it was over...divorce final in a matter of months. He said there should have never been a 2nd marriage there, that he was rebounding off of his 1st marriage. He said i was the one he should have always been with. He wanted me as his friend, lover, life partner, 'till death. He told me I was his perfect partner. Two years later and he said he was still waiting on the courts, that he'd met with his lawyer and the papers had been signed. He asked me what kind of ring I wanted. I got suspicious and finally called his wife. She wasn't getting a divorce. There was no divorce. It was all lies. He explained me to her as I was a stalker. Insult to injury. Betrayal. Lies. Never okay. Never hurt so deeply in my life. In shock. Had I known he was in an active marriage I would have never gotten involved. I never wanted to hurt anyone. I absolutely dont date married men. She chooses to believe him to save her marriage. Feel bad for her, but also, that hurts. As his wife she has to know at some level how deceptive he is. I NEVER WANTED TO BE AN AFFAIR PARTNER! He took things from me he shouldn't have. I would have never bought in and he knew that so he lied his ass off dropped promises at my feet. My integrity absolutely does matter. My flaw was that I trusted him. Him: "We've got this. We're gonna get through this. Dont be scared." Be careful, ladies. Protect yourself. Peace.

I needed this so bad

This is the second time that I have become the affair partner and it sucks

Well done

My husband’s affair partner was very proud at her place in the breaking up of our marriage. All three of us work at the same company & she didn’t care & both of them, the cheaters are shameless. I ended up quitting because I couldn’t go through the pain, the shame & the disrespect that both of them has put me through

I liked that you addressed this issue. It's not talked about enough. However you didn't even touch on the devastation that the AP goes through on a daily basis. The loneliness, sadness, pain or anything like it. It would have been nice if you addressed the daily anxiety and stress the AP goes through.

This is so helpful. Such a valuable exploration of our awareness and sensibility in relationships. Feeling ambivalent is so frustrating. It robs us of our true confidence. Thank you for your work.

He wasnt married had partner no children persuaded me for a year promised he would leave otherwise i refused to see him. For 18 months i had the most gorgeous relationsip of my life he said he wanted to marry me wanted to care for me the rest of my life. He then moved across the world devasted me. Im not over it never will be. He says still loves adores me yet not able to leave. Im the only one whoes life is utterly ruined. Have sympathy for the the person who believed he'd wanted me only.

The AP is often also being played by the errant husband.

So lovely to have a mature and balanced view on this topic

Thank you. For covering an important and difficult topic. It is amazing to me the hatred and animosity.And vitriol people have for this type of thing. It's no wonder that people don't want to speak up with the amount of judgmental. People out there. I truly think that comes from fear that their partner could do that to them. Life is messy.

Well after being a betrayed partner. I also became the affair partner. After the guy I was seeing started sneaking around with his high school first love who is married, making him also an affair partner. I asked this person to leave shortly after I suspected him cheating. I didn't see this person over a year, until he knocked on my door. Which we both still hadn't healed. Which we ended up sleeping together. I felt guilty and told him she will no. And one night I out of anger told her the truth well its been 7 years, and she still is married, he hates it and him and I still have a strong hold on each. She asks me and I don't lie I just tell her she's a smart person. My ex always calls me when he's sick in need of neutering. I love this man and have since the day we met. The complication is he loves us both I've decides I'm in need of closure like a funeral to help my grief. I have a spiritual belief that there is a reason why I allow. My ex has had a tra m attic childhood with physical abuse. And in his 20's his older brother wreck right in front of him and his brother died in his arms. And my purpose is to help him to heal. I am the only person he has open up with. But he also starts to sabatoges himself not to heal, do to his belief its his fault his brother died, his brother died on impact, which he knows, but he hold himself back. He has a recurring dream that wakes him often. I tell him finish the dream . So how screwed up are we, Id like to say his high school love, has married the same guy twice thats she's married too. The divorced but ended back together Thank you

We are having fertility issues with recurrent miscarriages and are starting treatment. My husband has stated that if having kids becomes impossible, he would rather be alone and unmarried. He would have lost his biggest dream and would turn into himself and his hobbies. I don't keep him from his hobbies and could see myself giving even more space. But is this fixable?

Such wisdom. Thank you 🙏

Thank you for this podcast. Rarely talked about and never any empathy for the affair partner, you brought so many ideas to light as to the reasons we tell ourselves that we will not hurt anyone.

My wife derailed with postpartum depression & in marriage counseling she said Hell no I am not coming back to the marriage bed. I responded by taking on a lover & for 10 years she & I made passionate love (a coworker) once, twice sometimes 3 times a day (government workers with lots of free time) she was a wonderful experience. When my wife discovered my "affair" she became so turned on she went crazy wild giving me the best lovin ever. Conclusion: Women need to know other women want their man.

A person can justify the why, the how, etc.. but the truth is a person who KNOWS a man or woman is married and doesn’t back off is wrong. Period. It’s never ok to insert yourself into a couples union even if there are problems. Every couple has issues and goes through hard times and by allowing yourself to be the “escape” that someone is craving in the moment just adds to the problems. It hardly ever ends well…

And never forget you can draw in sti's into your partner or into yourselves as you open your sex circle beyond what you control

The best talk on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you ladies! Great informative conversation! XO

I don't know if there is cognitive dissonance here for me. He pursued me for a full year. He made the choice to go outside his marriage. I am single. And I knew going into it that this would hurt his wife. I made the decision with full awareness. Because, simply this: love hurts. He and I would both be hurt by resisting the affair, she is hurt by us having the affair. They are both hurt in their unhealthy marriage. I am hurt in my loneliness. I'm not trying to make it "okay." I'm not trying to tell myself a story about the "betrayed partner." I am very aware of and empathetic for her full humanity. I am trying to make this affair the best it can be in a society that condemns this behavior, even though attraction to more than one person is clearly in our biology, and in my opinion is not morally wrong. I don't think the contemporary institution of marriage actually works. I believe the divorce rate coupled with the great numbers of unhappy marriages that don't end in divorce are evidence of this. I am compromising parts of myself, but I would be doing that in different ways if I had said no to this affair. It is also clear to me that he is seeking a different version of himself in his relationship with me. Who is really qualified to say that any of this is wrong? And of course, family of origin plays a part for all of us. I'm just saying, no excuses here. I see what I am doing, and I make the choice anyway. Same with him. I honestly felt a bit talked down to in this video. Doesn't the simple fact that infidelity is fairly common tell us something may be problematic about the institution of marriage and the expectations attached to it? All three of us are decent humans who carry hurt and don't know how to deal with it in this strange institution so many people buy into.

I have an issue with the object of desire self-consciousness theory. It seems incredibly sexist and doesn’t take into account the socialization of women to be objects of desire. Given that we are trained to see our self-worth as evidenced by being desirable to a man wouldn’t it follow that single cis women would be more susceptible to this? Kind of offensive frankly.

I was interested in your message until you said that you don’t take an ethical stand on the affair partner’s decision to create a deceitful relationship. Such a relationship violates another person’s autonomy, and the onus for that is on both affair partners. While there may be reasons or explanations for this decision, it can almost never be a moral one.

Have never betrayed another women or man in my life; never would. So low.

SO MUCH TO THINK ABOUT and sort through. Feel as if she’s talking directly to me. This is excellent, Dr Solomon is excellent and compassionate. Thank you.

Life saving 😘

A huge yayyy🙌🏾

I think that this was very well done and Alexandra is clearly a professional, who has been able to help people in the past. But, as a 66-year old guy that has just about seen it all, I think that it’s important to step back and see the big picture. 50% of marriages end in divorce. Of the remaining, about half are quite unhappy. And we are talking about the Major League of Relationships - Marriage. These are supposed to be the best. If we add in typical BF/GF relationships from college onward - the minor leagues - our success rate drops even further. So, a typical utility infielder on a baseball team, a sport known for poor success rates, has a higher batting average - and it’s not very high - than modern relationships. While she would like to claim that she is not casting moral or ethical shame on those having relationships outside their primary partner, that creeps almost from the start of the discussion. It’s almost unavoidable, so I don’t blame her. What we are dealing with is the ‘square peg in the round hole’. We are trying to force the human to be round. The real issue and what we should be debating is how we change our relationships and adapt them to the modern world. We are trying to force human beings, who are trying to do their best in a stressful world, into a structure that is not well suited for our modern world. Listening to Ester Perel talk is always instructive. Like she often says, we expect our partner today to be what an entire village used to provide us in the past. Plus, if you examine history, marriage was mostly for reproductive and economic reasons - not for them to necessarily be happy. Cheating was as common then as now. Our expectations are totally unrealistic and a better discussion would be how we should change our institutions to better serve our needs.