"Welcome to 'Navel Gazing at Camp David,' where we explore the world of catamarans and the art of sailing. I'm David Orton, and I've spent a lifetime around the waters of British Columbia, Canada. Join me on my quest for the live-aboard, circumnavigation dream, as I share insights, reviews, and practical knowledge to make this nautical dream a reality. Subscribe and sail with us toward a horizon filled with adventure! ⛵🌊 #CatamaranReviews #SailingAdventures"
Still not a fan of Cat's where you have to look through 2 sets of glass in order to see whats in front of you. I know you can get use to it, but if I would be dragging every crab pot in the Chesapeake bay if I drove that thing with the limited forward visibility.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Antares interior finish. If they could keep that but produce a modern 48-50 it would be wonderful: vinylester, forward cockpit with through-saloon access, upper fly lounge of some sort, aft cockpit with a more spacious layout. Single, mid bulkhead mounted versa helm with lower position in full shelter, athwartship master birth with full three side access. Then throw in the drop aft swim decks off each hull (Ala HH44). Oh. And a bow thruster and DockMate OEM option for good measure.
Checkout the steering and autopilot parts and you will never go wrong with the Antares. You pay for it, but the design and quality sure seems worth it if you have the money.
Seawind & Bali: I'm with Sylvia, meh. But since you reviewed some dinghy's...I love, that the HH52 has a 12'-5" dinghy space which accommodates the ZerOjet OC350 which is 11'-6" and weighs 328 lbs and holds a 767 lbs max load (3 guys, 3 gals) 👍 Oh, 1190 KSP .80 also good.
It would be so much better from a comparison standpoint to be looking at electronics, quality of sails, quality of auto pilot and steering components and the like. Looks and space layout is one thing but relying solely on that seems short sighted. Also, I don’t understand the purpose of your comparisons at the end where you are comparing mono hulls to the catamaran. Can you explain that?
Hi Steve. This channel is primarily from Sylvia’s point of view, since if she doesn’t agree, I’m going no where. Also, although there is a significant focus on ethics, we do dive into hull construction and performance. The bits that you speak of can all be replaced and/or optioned up or down, so it’s hard to be definitive. Re the mono-hulls…it’s about the ongoing mono/multi debate and a fair value comparison. Hope this answers your questions. Thanks for watching. D
@@navalgazingatcampdavid got it, I just thought it was odd you were comparing to the mono hulls when you said she wouldn’t live on a mono hull. Thanks for the comparisons, they are helpful.
informative and entertaining!!! That´s how a review should be! Thank you! I really would love to cruise the Mediteranean Sea with all it´s islands with that Catsmart! The name is program! Greetings from Bavaria! Not the yachts ... the country ;-)
Hi Steve. I’m not sure what you mean. Maintenance across the brands is pretty equal, other than build quality. It also depends on the size and complexity of the vessel. The more toys, the more maintenance. Hope this helps. D
@@navalgazingatcampdavid yeah, I was thinking that some of the cheaper cats are probably cheap for a reason. Usually it’s in the quality of the materials, appliances, etc.. usually those boats need refitting sooner and more fixes along the way.
it seems to me with the market right now there's just no point in getting a brand new smaller cat. there's loads of relatively younger used ones out there around the 45ft range.
I would tend to agree. I personally would rather buy a 2-5 yr old boat, let someone else deal with the inevitable warranty repairs and add extra toys before I take over. D
Hey lots of problems with bull sharks here lately. Can you do a comparison on some boats big Cats that might be beachable. Or a comparison of some cats with shaft drive. Jessica and Matts boat they are building is going electric and shaft drive. I don't think beachable though. I wonder if dragonfly or rapido might be beachable?
@@navalgazingatcampdavid I think it may concern @Tulasendlesssummer and @sailingrubyrose. They have an 1170 #1 and an 1370 #2 respectively. I think their problems are well within the problems you have in other new catamarans. Considering they are so early in the production run of each type I find it sort of amazing they do not have more problems.
The Seawind 1190 has retractable rudders and daggerboards. This means an amazing low draft of down to 1'11'' (60 cms) and it can easily be beached (motors are outboards). The reason for so much exposed fiberglass is its very low weight. Even shelves are fixed and fiberglass adding to the rigidity. Seawinds are proven cruisers - Bali not so much. Some cruisers have serious doubts to the safety of Balis with no trampolines. Historically, the resale value of Seawinds is amazing. The waiting time for a new Seawind can be very long. For crossing oceans I would go for the Seawind 1370, 1260 or 1170. For a floating condo the Balis are a good choice. Nice comparison - thx.
It is a shame that "western" companies choose to operate out of Communist Countries - the Communist Party can confiscate their proprietary information at anytime! Cheap Labor is just that...Cheap! Love your videos!
@@navalgazingatcampdavid OK, sounds like you are quite certain haha. Tell me what your pick would be for a ~50’ cruising cat. Owner layout. Prefer comfort over speed, but a little speed would be nice.
@@Passport-Bro Easy-peezy: Balance 482, Leopard 50 or Portofino 47 (This is third only because we have not seen hull#1 yet). Close behind would be Outremer 52, NEEL 52 and Nautitech 48. Thoughts?
@@navalgazingatcampdavid Ok, nice list. But Sylvia wouldn’t green light a Neel, would she?! I’m liking what I see from Xquistit. But I don’t like the cuved arch design. Too futuristic. I’m waiting to see if the design will get a little sharper and less rounded. If Xquistit doesn’t work out, IDK what’s next.
@@Passport-Bro Totally agree with the Xquisite. Tamas is planning a new X5, based on the 60 Solar Sail, but not for about 5 years. You could always find a nice used Discovery 50!
Holy mackerel man!!!! You literally nailed it!!! She just recently stated that it’s the Leopard 45 if she is going to do It! How the heck did you do that?!
Ya me! (Honestly, It’s the same order I would choose, LOL). Hard to beat the Leopard’s comfort with the open air front door seating area, and that upper deck lounge is pretty wonderful. It’s what I want (for almost half the money a used 2008/9 48’ Fountaine Pajot would be tempting).
I'd probably like a Rapido 45 if they made it, and if my boat buying budget was 3x. I'd love to do some extensive cruising in a multihull but there are places in the world I'd rather not go so a circumnavigation is out for me.
@@navalgazingatcampdavid I have a similar dream, I’m about to be 57 and want to retire at 62. Goal to circumnavigate the oceans. Wife is not on board , may do it solo.
On the topic of monohulls. Sure. it may not have the performance. But for me the mono alternative is the super sleek Amel 54. Its such a well thought layout. And it's just beautiful craftmanship. And VERY safe. While you can get it for just 480$ while having 7+2(saloon couch) berths which even tops the 55!
Woah! I think it's time to wait for the 63XS. The master cabin on this one has absolutely no effective clothing cabinets. that little night stand being the only master cabin storage space is a joke.
I say we get a Neel 52 and go on the ARC. My wife is game and so is our daughter. Silvia would love it. Lots of people. Perfect for green horns. 3-4 years from now. Perfect timing. What do you think?
Dave, I'm now throughly confused. These five vessels all have "fly lounges" with helms....down below you liberally use the term "cockpit" but isn't this the aviation and nautical term for the location of where all the controls (including steering) are found? I'm relatively new to this jargon...I'm an Army veteran (and retired architect.). RE - Dave Scores: 85 pts for the 47' Portofino (7), 84 pts for a 50' Aventura (8), 80 pts for the 45' Aventura (8), 80 pts for the 52' HH (9), 79 pts for the 53' Rapido (10) and now 78 pts for the 51' Voyage (7) - these are within the Top 16 boats at a size (Performance No.) that seem to be realistic and manageable for you and Sylvia? Don't overwhelm the poor girl with larger CATS. And regarding the mono-hull heresy, ha, this is a "fun" comparitive category, but you'd never consider any of these no matter the price....Sylvia would divorce you if you made this "gigantic" blunder of a "deal." Sylvia will be found sitting in the dinghy all day, waiting to take a turn at something manageable. I'm not familiar with the Rapids and will now go review, BRB. Naaagh, no Trimarans for me. Ugly.
Hey Jim. Thrilled you are enjoying the channel. Re “Cockpit”. Good point. I’m a private pilot and never thought of it that way. It probably evolved from monohulls, where the controls are in the “cockpit”. As cats evolved and helms moved from exposed aft, to mid bulkhead to fly, the term probably just stuck to the outdoor area under the Bimini. Then when Leopard introduced their forward leisure “cockpit” the meaning further diluted. Now I’m starting to miss speak and sometimes refer to the “fly lounge” ( vs full fly bridge with controls) as an upper cockpit. But that is my mistake. Sorry. Thanks for watching!!
Along with Windelo, I would have compared the Cure 55 to a Schionning or Ocean Renegade catamaran. Cure was previously building Schionning G-Force 1500 and 1800's, so rather than build someone else's design, they created their own. I am eager to see if they really stack up to an HH or a Kinetic, but I expect for the weight and cost, it will be more like a Schionning (light on luxury).
What is it with most cat manufacturers and the lack of luxury touches? You don’t see that in monohulls. It’s the strangest thing. I get the weight, but HH already proves you can do light AND luxurious. Do people who buy monohulls REALLY have COMPLETELY different tastes than anyone who buys a cat? There was a brief period in the early 2000’s when some beautiful cats were built ( Catana 522, 582) but then they went all “RV”ish on us. Any insights?
Even though I am very late to this video, I’m glad I stumbled across it. I am in the same place at 62 years of age. My COJ is in tbe same place so not sure how this will wash out. Luv the spread sheets and would luv to have a copy. Lagoon or Privilege would b the way I would go if this does come to fruition.
Thanks so much Jeff. If you ever want to discuss, drop me a line at dave@navalgazingatcampdavid.com. Spread sheet and PPT downloads are available on the Patreon channel. Love your direction. Have a look at my interview with Rob P from Privilege. Also, I would add to your list: Portofino 52, Voyage 510 ( new video Tuesday am), Balance 580 and HH 52 ( on the wild side). All wonderful Cats.
Thrilled to hear you like it. They really do build a wonderful product. The 550 is so customizable at the same price as a production boat. If you want a contact and intro at the company I will be pleased to help. D
Right on Dave, nice work as usual. These are massive boats. Great Circle had to go with at least three on passage, Holly and Stephan are doing the same on their O52 so far. The Windelo 50 intrigues me as a more manageable couples boat. While the basalt finer and eco ethos is impressive it is the front cockpit and owners stateroom that really make me think about it. What is the price of an electric motor compared to a diesel yanmar? It looks like Windelo is charging a lot for basalt fiber and recycled water bottles. I notice also you reported “high quality” polyester resin infused for the basalt composite. I wonder if that is cost savings of if basalt fiber form better in polyester than epoxy or vinyl ester? Anyway, thanks again, these puppies are too big for this couple. Okay too expensive too, even though I only add 20-30% ticking the options boxes on most new builds. Later!
Thanks so much Greg. I have been on the Windelo 54 and that front cockpit took me totally by surprise! You feel so in control and connected with the boat and the water. Your visibility is just outstanding! They are planning a 47, so there may be hope. Otherwise you are doing like me and crossing your fingers for a pre-loved Balance 442 or HH44 to come up at just the right time!
She is a pretty boat but it looks like the helms are fixed in their positions. I would not be happy to be at the helm on a stormy or very windy passage. The Cure 55 looks like she is a fast and fun boat to sail however, 90% of a sailor's life is spent at a dock, a mooring or at anchor. If you want to keep Sylvia happy, it is hard to beat the Privilege 580. The owner's cabin is in a class of it's own.
There is a lot to love here, but I guess with the KSP rating of 110 that's why there isn't any comfortable seating at the 4 helm positions. They (Cure) want you on your toes and standing up (if you can) 😥
Thanks for the review of this cool boat. As you are comparing the weight to the HH 52 are you aware that the empty weight of HH boats always includes weight of all ordered accessories, the anchor and full tanks? That might account for the 2000kg difference.
Hi Bandido. Thanks for watching. Lightship displacement is certainly a rather loosely applied term in the industry ( lol). However, it could not include ordered accessories for the published figure since this changes from boat to boat. If HH included full fuel tanks in that figure it would also be detrimental to themselves as no one in the industry, that I am aware of, does that. I’ll double check, but I cannot imagine including full fuel and water in your published lightship number. It would not make marketing sense. Having sail all that, I take all lightship numbers with a grain of salt due to the broad “interpretations” of the term. In the end, my guess is that the CURE is still lighter if one were to hold a strictly controlled and standardized weigh-in. D
@@navalgazingatcampdavid HH includes all standard items in it's lightship weight, so that includes sails, running rigging, anchor chain, anchor, batteries, mattresses, window blinds, Air Conditioning, etc. Fuel and water are not included, but certainly a good point to make: comparing Lightship is difficult and if a boat seems too light, it's probably because it does not include a lot of standard items for the base cost.
Congratulations, dear! Imagine the possibility of tripling your RU-vid channel and achieving tremendous growth. I have some strategies in mind. Are you open to exploring this opportunity?
Oh Dave...they are two completely different beasts. Having said that, I would have to think hard to pick between them . Outrmere produce a wonderful yacht!
Love the shaft drive. But the steering system better be very robust. Looks like a lot there could go wrong. Seen too many failures on Seawind. I am scared of them. Are Windelo systems a shaft drive? If so both boats are winners for me.
Yes, the Windelo is a shaft drive. Having said that, the modern sail drives are now just as strong and offer some real benefits. Don't get caught up in historical issues that no longer matter. Phil German at Balance has some good thoughts on this topic.
@@navalgazingatcampdavid still can't be taking them out of the water every year for maintenance changing oil and seals...just not practical for me here.
